Administrative Officer 2017 Campaign

hardybuck

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

If I recall correctly, there was a decentralisation plan rolled out by government 15 years ago.

The intention was to spread out State jobs nationwide... and not have every department clustered in Dublin.

Was it ever fully rolled out or did it fail in its infancy, does anyone know?

The majority of the Civil Service works outside of Dublin. However those jobs are in service delivery and at grades like CO and EO.

Every county will have staff from Revenue, Social Welfare, Courts Service and then others like Civil Servants working in Garda Stations or Agricultural Inspectors. Some counties have a big regionalised office - like the Prison Service who have a lot of staff in Longford. There will be a smaller proportion of HEOs, APs and POs managing those staff.

Departments are headquartered in Dublin because that's where politicans and Ministers are based, and that's where major decisions come from. Senior staff and policy development takes place in the centre, and AOs normally work on informing that type of work.

An Ri rua

Halloween Jack wrote: »

That’s very unfortunate, to go through that process, Place so highly and Not be able to take the job

There IS nothing outside Dublin for now. Turn down Dublin (your decision), reiterate your preferences and then wait for the panel to be exhausted. When it goes around the second time, you may get lucky. Or you may not. Its the luck of the draw with all panels, but particularly AO as longtimers like Hardy Buck and The Conductor point out.

Just stick with your preferences and be prepared to lose some and maybe win the odd one.

Trust me

marmieB

It was pretty much Dublin only last year

The_Conductor

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

If I recall correctly, there was a decentralisation plan rolled out by government 15 years ago.

The intention was to spread out State jobs nationwide... and not have every department clustered in Dublin.

Was it ever fully rolled out or did it fail in its infancy, does anyone know?

The decentralisation plan from 15 years ago (Charlie McCreevys plan) was just the most recent of decentralisation plans- we've had at least 6 large scale decentralisation plans since the 1960s. Over 60% of all civil servants- have home offices outside of Dublin. Many of the larger Departments have significant regional headquarters outside of Dublin- think of Social Welfare in Dundalk, Carrick-on-Shannon and Letterkenny, The Prison Service in Longford, Education in Mullingar and Athlone, Revenue in Limerick, Agriculture in Portlaoise and Backweston, Justice in Newbridge, the CSO in Cork (etc etc).

There *are* posts which come up in these locations- periodically- however, the traditional manner of filling them has been to give first dibs to pre-existing staff who are trying to escape from Dublin (and after that- you have the head-to-head transfers- as per the pages at the back of each PSEU magazine issue, and then you have promotions- and finally you have recruitment into specific offices.

Most people (myself included) will have done time in Dublin- before they escape to a better location. You might get lucky in how long you spend in Dublin- or not- I worked in Dublin for 6 years before I escaped.

There are pros and cons to all of these things- traditionally, the public sector was viewed through rose coloured glasses- and the mentality of recruiters is they do not need to make an effort to recruit people- there are hoardes queuing up to join.......... This is no longer the case though- the job is very different from it was, even 20 years ago, the pay is worse- and the 'gold plated pensions' the media are so fond of harping on about- are anything but. The muted response to increasing the age of compulsory retirement to 70- and the manner in which its being latched onto by employer groups- such as IBEC- only serve to highlight the stark decline in terms and conditions in recent years.

I could name 7 AOs (and a string of EOs) who quit after a few weeks (or just a few days in some cases) from last years panels- in the Department I'm working in.

There needs to be a little bit of realism here- and it isn't fair that the fables in the media aren't tackled headon by unions or PAS- and a true picture given as to what working in the civil service actually entails.

It is a good job- and overtime the pay is ok. Its not a walk in the park- and it most certainly is not the cushy number that the media love to suggest it is (obviously some offices will be different from others).

I have young children- and am now (eventually) working in a convenient location. I am satisfied to keep my head down, work to the best of my abilities- and do whatever is best for my children. If I got AP- but was told I had to go to Dublin- honestly, it would be a no-brainer, I'd turn it down in a heartbeat.

I know of many people who are getting the train from Limerick or Cork up to work in Dublin on a daily basis. I think they are insane- completely and utterly insane.

Chocolate Teapot

Very wise words @The_Conductor. It's easy to get caught up in the excitement, but at the end of the day there's no point taking a job where you'll have to spend your life commuting. I was very happy to get through yesterday, but if I'm offered a job that takes me too far away from my child I'll turn it down without a moments hesitation.

baba87

Anyone have a copy of the graduate economist booklet?

Aglomerado

The_Conductor wrote: »

I have young children- and am now (eventually) working in a convenient location. I am satisfied to keep my head down, work to the best of my abilities- and do whatever is best for my children. If I got AP- but was told I had to go to Dublin- honestly, it would be a no-brainer, I'd turn it down in a heartbeat.

I know of many people who are getting the train from Limerick or Cork up to work in Dublin on a daily basis. I think they are insane- completely and utterly insane.

Conductor, I'm the very same as you. I have turned down two AO roles as well as a specialised HEO role (Crime Analyst) that were in awkward (for me) locations.

I'm not sure I could give myself 100% to positions that entailed commutes of 2 and a half hours twice a day, or, alternatively, moving to substandard rented accommodation while letting out my own house (and worrying about that too).

I don't even have children, but my free time and quality of life are very important (I was in an accident 3 years ago and realised I needed to enjoy myself a lot more).

You'd lose your flexi time as an AP too. I know a recently promoted AP and all their job seems to entail is meetings, meetings and more meetings.

The right promotion will come up, I keep trying but am happy with the status quo for the most part.

Chocolate Teapot

Sorry folks if this is slightly OT, but we've just been notified by PeoplePoint that there will be an opportunity to revert to pre-Haddington road hours. I think that's 6.58 hours per day instead of 7.28. I wasn't in the CS pre-Haddington, but I know a lot of my colleagues really missed the old hours. There is a pro-rata reduction in pay, and I was wondering if any of ye will be applying to revert to the old hours? I'd imagine it makes it very easy to build up flexi.

rostalof

Chocolate Teapot wrote: »

Sorry folks if this is slightly OT, but we've just been notified by PeoplePoint that there will be an opportunity to revert to pre-Haddington road hours. I think that's 6.58 hours per day instead of 7.28. I wasn't in the CS pre-Haddington, but I know a lot of my colleagues really missed the old hours. There is a pro-rata reduction in pay, and I was wondering if any of ye will be applying to revert to the old hours? I'd imagine it makes it very easy to build up flexi.

It's 6 Hours 57 minutes instead of the current post HRA 7 Hours 24 minutes day. It amounts to a pro-rata reduction in pay and pension contributions of approx 6%, which conveniently is about equal to the amount that most people will 'gain' from the pay restoration of the public service stability agreement 2018-2020. What a coincidence!!!

I'm post HRA too by the way.

The_Conductor

You also get a commensurate reduction in annual leave entitlements- and if its implemented in a 'work sharing' arrangement- your flexi etc- will all be adjusted in a similar manner (aka you may not be allowed to work an additional day and a half).

Its an extra half hour a day- about 1/15 of a gross working day.

We were talking about it at lunchtime here- out of a random group of 14- none were interested in the offer.
We'd all love our 'unpaid half hour' back- however, its either unpaid, or its not- this sounds like the official side want their cake and to eat it.

billyhead

The_Conductor wrote: »

You also get a commensurate reduction in annual leave entitlements- and if its implemented in a 'work sharing' arrangement- your flexi etc- will all be adjusted in a similar manner (aka you may not be allowed to work an additional day and a half).

Its an extra half hour a day- about 1/15 of a gross working day.

We were talking about it at lunchtime here- out of a random group of 14- none were interested in the offer.
We'd all love our 'unpaid half hour' back- however, its either unpaid, or its not- this sounds like the official side want their cake and to eat it.

True. I cant see many taking up this option unless your near retirement and don't have a mortgage to pay and can afford to reduce your working hours.

Technocentral

The_Conductor wrote: »

You also get a commensurate reduction in annual leave entitlements- and if its implemented in a 'work sharing' arrangement- your flexi etc- will all be adjusted in a similar manner (aka you may not be allowed to work an additional day and a half).

Its an extra half hour a day- about 1/15 of a gross working day.

We were talking about it at lunchtime here- out of a random group of 14- none were interested in the offer.
We'd all love our 'unpaid half hour' back- however, its either unpaid, or its not- this sounds like the official side want their cake and to eat it.

Oh, I was going to do it to take up other part time work, I was hoping to build up flexi time to take off days on top of my existing annual leave, are you sure annual leave is reduced too?

The_Conductor

Technocentral wrote: »

Oh, I was going to do it to take up other part time work, I was hoping to build up flex time to take of days on top of my existing annual leave, are you sure annual leave is reduced too?

Discussed it briefly with Peoplepoint this evening- yes, your annual leave is reduced on a pro-rata basis (depends on your tenure and grade- typically you'd have a day and half to two days less annual leave)- however, flexileave is not affected. It was emphasised once again- flexileave- is a privilege, not a right- and is wholly dependent on business needs (aka- you do not automatically have the right either flexible working hours and/or flexileave (if you build up time in lieu to be taken).

For a new start- its a day and a half annual leave that is deducted from your total. You should be able to work up the 11.30- and take it as a day and a half every 4 weeks regardless (depending on where you work).

Pros and cons- however, the manner in which its theoretically an unpaid half hour a day- and if you want your half hour back- you pay for it back- means most people aren't interested in it.......... Wonder how this half hour is factored into the unwinding of FEMPI? Obviously the official side are assigning a cost (and a benefit on the other side of the equation) with all these half hours- yet, supposedly its unpaid- unless of course you try to reclaim it.........

caviardreams

Re the annual leave - my understanding had been that it is not reduced in terms of number of days e.g. if you have 24 days leave at the old time of 7.24, you now have 24 days leave of 6.57 hours per day, so while the amount of time of annual leave in terms of hours is technically reduced in line with your new reduced working week, the number of days remains the same as you now need less hours of leave (6.57) to take a day off too so it balances out. However, it seems I am totally wrong on this looking at Conductor's post so that's another factor to consider for sure!

The_Conductor

caviardreams wrote: »

Re the annual leave - my understanding had been that it is not reduced in terms of number of days e.g. if you have 24 days leave at the old time of 7.24, you now have 24 days leave of 6.57 hours per day, so while the amount of time of annual leave in terms of hours is technically reduced in line with your new reduced working week, the number of days remains the same as you now need less hours of leave (6.57) to take a day off too so it balances out. However, it seems I am totally wrong on this looking at Conductor's post so that's another factor to consider for sure!

The statement I was given is 'The reduction in working hours to 6.57 is considered to be a new work sharing pattern, and will be treated in an identical manner to any other work sharing pattern, resulting in a commensurate reduction in annual leave entitlements'.

If you're still able to earn 1.5 days flexi leave per 4 week cycle- its only a single cycle you're forfeiting- if you look at the bigger picture.

caviardreams

The_Conductor wrote: »

The statement I was given is 'The reduction in working hours to 6.57 is considered to be a new work sharing pattern, and will be treated in an identical manner to any other work sharing pattern, resulting in a commensurate reduction in annual leave entitlements'.

If you're still able to earn 1.5 days flexi leave per 4 week cycle- its only a single cycle you're forfeiting- if you look at the bigger picture.

Thanks conductor - then I think I might still be right? Taking the hypothetical 24 days entitlement above e.g. if you work-share 5 mornings at 3 hours a day - you still get 24 days leave per year - not 24 days worth of 7.24 hours of course which you would get if you worked full time, but 24 days of 3 hours leave (and the other person gets 24 days of 4.24 leave - so 7.24 x 24 over the "whole job" between both workers). So therefore while your hours of annual leave do get reduced by your reduced working hours, the number of days don't as the hours of leave you need to take a day off fall too.

Sir Ophiuchus

I'm considering going for it, yeah. It would be really nice from a work-life balance perspective, and the financial loss would be negated entirely by receiving my first increment in March.

So basically it's do I want my first increment, or to work a half-hour less every day for the rest of my career (or at least until I move up in grade, presuming I do).

I think that might actually be a reasonable trade-off. It can be quiet some days (and of course busy on others), and I'm not a huge fan of needing to stay late on days it's completely dead just to make up my hours.

evancunny95

baba87 wrote: »

Anyone have a copy of the graduate economist booklet?

If you get a copy could you send it on to myself, cheers!

hardybuck

My advice to anyone coming in as an AO or Third Secretary would be to put the head down, and while I definitely wouldn't be trying to stay long in the office to be seen to be there, definitely don't be counting out the minutes every week with a view towards maxing out your flexi every month. 43 days a year is a lot of time to be taking off between annual leave and flexi, and most people never get to take all that leave.


Flexible working arrangements, where available, will go both ways. You'll have some times of the week/year where you'll need to work longer hours, you'll have some times where it'll be a little quieter and you can work slighly less hours. Nothing too mad or unusual in that.

You'll be viewed as a potential future senior manager, and most of your peers will be aiming for that level. As some people have pointed out, newly appointed APs & POs etc. don't get flexi time and you'll lose a lot of flexibility if and when you step up. Many people will view the increase in pay as ample compensation for that, many won't - which is fair enough.

Overall the Civil Service is still a place where most people join and stay because it's a good place to work.

HairyCabbage

Anyone know when people in the 80s in batch 1 were placed last year?

SFC1895

HairyCabbage wrote: »

Anyone know when people in the 80s in batch 1 were placed last year?

End of Feb/early March

mockscraic

Hey. Maybe a bit OT but maybe someone here can help me.

I was successful in AO competition in 2016. However, the job isn't really appealing to me so far.
I think I would much prefer to work for the EU through one of their comps as I have a few languages and would like to get out of Dublin (without going for AP after two years! haha)

What would the AO equivalent within EU grade be? Has anyone experience of a civil servant switching to the EU public service?

Sparks15

mockscraic wrote: »

Hey. Maybe a bit OT but maybe someone here can help me.

I was successful in AO competition in 2016. However, the job isn't really appealing to me so far.
I think I would much prefer to work for the EU through one of their comps as I have a few languages and would like to get out of Dublin (without going for AP after two years! haha)

What would the AO equivalent within EU grade be? Has anyone experience of a civil servant switching to the EU public service?

I don’t have any experience of switching to the EU institutions but AD 5 is the entry level for University graduates.

Selection and recruitment may also be offered at AD 6/AD 7 in more specialist roles. Several years' relevant experience will be required at these grades though.

AGC

A lot of positions are secondments to the EU and EEAS

mockscraic

Thanks for response. This job is my first job so I don't have that prior experience...AD5 it is!

foggyflies

AD5 is a possible choice with a new competition in March 2018 starting. However the process is even harder than the Irish public service recruitment process. You must have the second language requirement perfectly down and a knack for the tests. Those who do start properly preparing for th me tests take an average 2-3 years to get in after repeated attempts. It's a long road but a rewarding one if you get it, best of luck!

mockscraic

foggyflies wrote: »

AD5 is a possible choice with a new competition in March 2018 starting. However the process is even harder than the Irish public service recruitment process. You must have the second language requirement perfectly down and a knack for the tests. Those who do start properly preparing for th me tests take an average 2-3 years to get in after repeated attempts. It's a long road but a rewarding one if you get it, best of luck!

Long road, repeated attempts...same was said about AO campaigns haha! Thanks for the information about March.

Halloween Jack

Did anybody on the upper reaches of the panel hear anything from PAS this week?

neilie22

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Did anybody on the upper reaches of the panel hear anything from PAS this week?

In the top 20 and haven't heard anything this week.

Ferney

I had an OOM of 11. I got a call today with an offer but I declined as it was in Dublin (as the vast majority of these positions are).