Administrative Officer 2017 Campaign

quad_red

AGC wrote: »

Unfortunately not but hopefully changes with time

Do you mind me asking why?

Is it the work, management, the team?

mockscraic

AGC wrote: »

Yeah possibly - just annoyed that the job is so far removed from the remit of an AO role that I had applied for

Same here. I'm a HEO without the salary!

AGC

The work.

No issue with colleagues at all.

quad_red

AGC wrote: »

Yeah possibly - just annoyed that the job is so far removed from the remit of an AO role that I had applied for

In what way? What did you think it was gonna be and what’s it end up being?

AGC

quad_red wrote: »

In what way? What did you think it was gonna be and what’s it end up being?

Having worked in the service for 10+ years and having worked with AO’s, gone through the whole process I felt I would be working in a policy, or close to policy related role but I am not.

I was happy in my previous roles, hopefully I am the exception and I feel I have to get on with it and I will but I hope the current batch being assigned end up where they want.

quad_red

AGC wrote: »

Having worked in the service for 10+ years and having worked with AO’s, gone through the whole process I felt I would be working in a policy, or close to policy related role but I am not.

I was happy in my previous roles, hopefully I am the exception and I feel I have to get on with it and I will but I hope the current batch being assigned end up where they want.

Thanks AGC - without giving too specific detail, what are you doing? General admin work?

Chocolate Teapot

I know they are supposed to be very different roles, but which would be considered a better move - HEO or AO?

The_Conductor

Chocolate Teapot wrote: »

I know they are supposed to be very different roles, but which would be considered a better move - HEO or AO?

HEO is still a promotional grade- that is you will (normally) have broad experience in lower grades (CO/EO) and having had a HEO as a manager- you'll have a reasonable grasp of what the post entails- esp. in the context of managing staff- and this will stand to you. In recent times- particularly in internal promotional panels- whereas AOs once dominated AP lists- this is changing to a HEO list (despite the vastly larger number of AOs in the service now than at any other point in the last 20 years). Its not like this across the board though- some non-traditional Departments for AOs- seem to promote significantly higher proportions of AOs than do the likes of the Taoiseach's Office/Revenue/DoF etc- where HEOs (and even EOs) have been doing rather well lately.

At the end of the day- you need to get a good grounding in the work of your Home Department- a preferably some experience liaising with other Departments- or possibly the Perm Rep or other postings- and leverage experience towards getting a promotion. Anyone who imagines a promotion is pretty much automatically normal- or will happen within 2-3-4 years- unless they are exceptional (and there are some really remarkable candidates after coming in in the last year or two)- are going to be bitterly disappointed.

The civil service is far more a meritocracy these days- than it has ever been- if you're intelligent, a good worker- and go out of your way to get good experience- opportunities will normally open for you. However- any given AO can expect to work a lot harder today for a promotion- than they did 20 years ago.

Halloween Jack

If you look at the competency framework, the typical AO role would stand you in good stead regarding experience in most of the competencies for AP, but you might be lacking in the management part. Anecdotally they have been stressing the management part of roles in recent competitions (probably ties in with the ibec training program across the cs etc) which may be why more heo’s Are doing well, given they would typically have more of a team leader role

mockscraic

Halloween Jack wrote: »

If you look at the competency framework, the typical AO role would stand you in good stead regarding experience in most of the competencies for AP, but you might be lacking in the management part. Anecdotally they have been stressing the management part of roles in recent competitions (probably ties in with the ibec training program across the cs etc) which may be why more heo’s Are doing well, given they would typically have more of a team leader role

I came off last competition and have two staff as AO...it's really luck of the draw

Halloween Jack

mockscraic wrote: »

I came off last competition and have two staff as AO...it's really luck of the draw

Yeah, AO’s in my current spot might have one or 2 Staff.

The difference being, an heo could have 20. In fact, when I started in dsp it was an heo who ran the entire local office, with maybe 40 direct reports.

The_Conductor

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Yeah, AO’s in my current spot might have one or 2 Staff.

The difference being, an heo could have 20. In fact, when I started in dsp it was an heo who ran the entire local office, with maybe 40 direct reports.

It all depends.
In one job I had- as an EO- I had 4 COs report to me- and no HEO or AP- I reported directly to the PO.........
Different Departments/Divisions/Sections/Offices work in different ways.

Halloween Jack

The_Conductor wrote: »

It all depends.
In one job I had- as an EO- I had 4 COs report to me- and no HEO or AP- I reported directly to the PO.........
Different Departments/Divisions/Sections/Offices work in different ways.

Agreed, which is why the grade system is somewhat nonsensical at times, I’d love it if they subdivided the competitions into streams ie: EO technical/EO management AO policy and so on. Each of the grades covers a mind boggling array of different roles

Tarpedo

Anybody who also applied for the graduate jobs in local government the results of the stage two tests are out.

mockscraic

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Agreed, which is why the grade system is somewhat nonsensical at times, I’d love it if they subdivided the competitions into streams ie: EO technical/EO management AO policy and so on. Each of the grades covers a mind boggling array of different roles

Definitely. I have no interest in managing staff yet- it annoys me that the answer to this is always 'but it'll stand for you when you go for AP' - the natural assumption is that you're just an AO to finally go for that promotion when the time comes. I wanted a POLICY role - ideally in keeping with my degree. It's advertised as a graduate opportunity but it's far from it. As I said above, my role is that of a HEO but far less money haha!

Halloween Jack

mockscraic wrote: »

Definitely. I have no interest in managing staff yet- it annoys me that the answer to this is always 'but it'll stand for you when you go for AP' - the natural assumption is that you're just an AO to finally go for that promotion when the time comes. I wanted a POLICY role - ideally in keeping with my degree. It's advertised as a graduate opportunity but it's far from it. As I said above, my role is that of a HEO but far less money haha!

Absolutely and what makes it doubly frustrating is the fact that there are plenty of AP roles that don’t require too much people management, (though obviously loads that do), so having team leadership experience is probably not really that important for those roles, yet you are required to have it to apply for AP.

Furthermore, if you get promoted to AP,you could land in either a technical role or a more obvious management role, regardless of background or suitability. It’s slightly mad.

sureitsgrand

Been interesting to follow this thread again this year.

I got an AO position last year (I was in the second batch). I started last September and I have to say I’m delighted with the job so far.

And I say this as someone who was bitterly disappointed when I learned of the Department and Division I was assigned to. It was so far removed from any policy area I had experience/an interest in. After going through the ridiculously stressful recruitment process I was almost going to turn the position down.

I’m glad I didn’t.

It seems I’ve been one of the lucky ones. I’m in a distinctly policy oriented role where I have ownership of a whole new project that will be going forward in the next few years. I also contribute to ministers speaking points/briefing notes on a regular basis and do background research on legislative proposals.

Other stuff: My line manager and AP are great - sound and supportive. I’ll be starting a course of education next year. The people that work around me are nice. Flexitime and flexidays are amazing.

Also, in my department anyway, there does seem to be opportunities for advancement - and even at this early stage I’m trying to develop myself so that when I’m eligible for those opportunities I’ll be ready.

All this being said, I do know of AOs who have got the bum deal of being essentially a HEO. So they’re being paid significantly less than they should doing work they probably didn’t sign up for. Also, the HEO role in a section really needs to know their area inside out and upside down. There is not a hope I could do the work of the HEO in my Division. EOs and COs would be far better suited.

It seems that a large dollop of luck is involved in the whole process, as with much of life I suppose.

Chocolate Teapot

Thanks for the insight guys. I only joined the cs in 2015 and I don't work with any AOs, although there are some in my dept. I know they are supposed to be very different roles (i.e. AO being policy focussed etc.) but have heard that in reality they are often treated as interchangeable. Great to hear from people who have first hand experience. Seems like the luck of the draw!

Sharon2017

Tarpedo wrote: »

Anybody who also applied for the graduate jobs in local government the results of the stage two tests are out.

I'm 125 on the OOM for this. Because I have no idea how many jobs or interviews there are I don't know if this is good or not. I know it would be a good result in other campaigns but don't know much about this one.

Does anyone know how many get called forward etc?

Halloween Jack

Sharon2017 wrote: »

I'm 125 on the OOM for this. Because I have no idea how many jobs or interviews there are I don't know if this is good or not. I know it would be a good result in other campaigns but don't know much about this one.

Does anyone know how many get called forward etc?

Well the last person in this thread to get a call was in the top 20, so probably reasonable to surmise they’ve called the first 20, within 2 weeks of the panel opening proper.

I’m 80th on the list, a buddy of mine was 80th last year and was placed by March.

They also interviewed a second tranche last year.

So those factors, while no guarantee would be cause for optimism for you being called.

I wonder did anybody else on thread get called this week?

Sharon2017

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Well the last person in this thread to get a call was in the top 20, so probably reasonable to surmise they’ve called the first 20, within 2 weeks of the panel opening proper.

I’m 80th on the list, a buddy of mine was 80th last year and was placed by March.

They also interviewed a second tranche last year.

So those factors, while no guarantee would be cause for optimism for you being called.

I wonder did anybody else on thread get called this week?

Is that person number 20 being called on the AO campaign or the local government? Sorry I have not read the entire thread as there are so many posts!!

Halloween Jack

Sharon2017 wrote: »

Is that person number 20 being called on the AO campaign or the local government? Sorry I have not read the entire thread as there are so many posts!!

Apologies, I misread, please disregard

Sharon2017

No prob Best of luck to yourself - OOM of 80 sounds promising!

Waffleturd

Sharon2017 wrote: »

No prob Best of luck to yourself - OOM of 80 sounds promising!

Hi Sharon,

I'm in the 70s for the Local Government position. If this was the AO stream, we'd both likely get a job. I remember at the beginning of this campaign that it said most jobs would be based in Dublin or Cork. I imagine a good chunk of the upper reaches of the OOM are Dublin people. I wish they broke it down by region so we would know the likelihood of our chances of being recruited!

ros89

Hi Folks,

Fair play to all of you for doing so well on the OOM. I'm number 261 in OOM at the moment , does anyone know the actual demand for ao's at the moment? Not feeling too hopeful about a second batch!

Thanks
Ros

quad_red

sureitsgrand wrote: »

Been interesting to follow this thread again this year.

I got an AO position last year (I was in the second batch). I started last September and I have to say I’m delighted with the job so far.

And I say this as someone who was bitterly disappointed when I learned of the Department and Division I was assigned to. It was so far removed from any policy area I had experience/an interest in. After going through the ridiculously stressful recruitment process I was almost going to turn the position down.

I’m glad I didn’t.

It seems I’ve been one of the lucky ones. I’m in a distinctly policy oriented role where I have ownership of a whole new project that will be going forward in the next few years. I also contribute to ministers speaking points/briefing notes on a regular basis and do background research on legislative proposals.

Other stuff: My line manager and AP are great - sound and supportive. I’ll be starting a course of education next year. The people that work around me are nice. Flexitime and flexidays are amazing.

Also, in my department anyway, there does seem to be opportunities for advancement - and even at this early stage I’m trying to develop myself so that when I’m eligible for those opportunities I’ll be ready.

All this being said, I do know of AOs who have got the bum deal of being essentially a HEO. So they’re being paid significantly less than they should doing work they probably didn’t sign up for. Also, the HEO role in a section really needs to know their area inside out and upside down. There is not a hope I could do the work of the HEO in my Division. EOs and COs would be far better suited.

It seems that a large dollop of luck is involved in the whole process, as with much of life I suppose.

Really fantastic to hear such a positive experience.

I'm in my late 30's with a lot of experience and will (if I'm called) be taking a significant pay cut to take up an AO role. I've been private sector since graduating but always felt I wanted to work for the PS eventually in a policy area. The crash put that on ice for years but haven't been successful in getting in at AP level. Been to interview but I genuinely don't have the level of people management experience they're after.

My hope with the AO is that it will be a stepping stone (with a lot of hard work obviously. Not expecting anything automatic). And have heard some good news stories and some bad. But I'd leave my current role and salary because there is no more room for progression for something less well paid but with that potential for progression.

How specific are offers when they're made? Are you told the specific work area and department you're being offered? Maybe put out some feelers then to see what that section/dept is like?

DFT

quad_red wrote: »

Really fantastic to hear such a positive experience.

I'm in my late 30's with a lot of experience and will (if I'm called) be taking a significant pay cut to take up an AO role. I've been private sector since graduating but always felt I wanted to work for the PS eventually in a policy area. The crash put that on ice for years but haven't been successful in getting in at AP level. Been to interview but I genuinely don't have the level of people management experience they're after.

My hope with the AO is that it will be a stepping stone (with a lot of hard work obviously. Not expecting anything automatic). And have heard some good news stories and some bad. But I'd leave my current role and salary because there is no more room for progression for something less well paid but with that potential for progression.

How specific are offers when they're made? Are you told the specific work area and department you're being offered? Maybe put out some feelers then to see what that section/dept is like?

I can only speak for my own experience but for CO, EO & HEO I’ve been told the department when assigned by PAS but never the section.

HR usually tells you a few days beforehand so it’s impossible to get much information.

In some cases I only found out when I arrived that morning where I was being assigned.

Sir Ophiuchus

I was told the section by PAS last year when being made an offer.

evancunny95

Any IGEES candidates had their competitive interview as of yet?

Smegging hell

ros89 wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Fair play to all of you for doing so well on the OOM. I'm number 261 in OOM at the moment , does anyone know the actual demand for ao's at the moment? Not feeling too hopeful about a second batch!

Thanks
Ros

I'm in the same boat - indeed, I got the same OOM! We'll just have to wait and see, I suppose.