Interclub team formats & handicap brackets

ShriekingSheet

Russman wrote: »

I'd possibly argue that interclub matches played the previous year should count as a counting rounds in terms of eligibility, obviously not towards handicapping of course.

I like that idea. Although the point of the X number of cards is to enforce X number of chances to get cut, and regulate the handicap. Team matches don't do that, but I think you're on to something.

For example, why can't the GUI make a note to review 3 high performing players at every Purcell, Bruen, Junior etc venue - so what if they are part of a pair, just review both. If the review meant pulling up their GolfNet, and a quick analysis showed strong (but not handicap cutting) performance, take a shot or two off them.

Again, every December, the panels of the 4 semi finalists in these events, and the likes of Metro and Barton Cup could be reviewed on GolfNet in the same way. You'd even see the same names popping up in both of the above scenarios, which should obviously ring an alarm bell (of performance, if not cheating - either way it's a snip).

Joking aside someone like TROL could make a fair assessment of 100 players in a week. Surely a paid official could. Sure what else are the full time GUI staff doing in the winter?

Regardless of the granular detail, in my view, something like that where cop on and subjective, informed assessment is used to monitor handicaps of high performing team members, rather than the current black and white system. It's the binary, objective nature of having one set of events (singles qualifying) that affect your handicap, and then everything else doesn't, that makes the system insufficient and opens it up to abuse.

me and my mate shot level par gross in Jimmy Bruen, but it's grand, we never do better than 35 points in singels :rolleyes:

FixdePitchmark

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Fix, how many would you play from April to September which would probably cover the playing season for most?

Looked it up and only played 5. :eek:

The year before was 20.

Now last year was unusual and I work at weekends.

But still , there are many people who have work / child care / sporting commitments every weekend. Add to that social , voluntary , other hobbies etc.

Now you could argue that a person in that situation doesn't have time for inter club - but they would make time for it if on a team.

There is difference in when you have to play and when you could play.
People can make time for interclub - you must play , isn't can you play? if you get me.

It would be wrong to put lads like above in mid life on the scrap heap - some of them are the best players in the club. Some of these are the future of the club when things slow down towards 50s.

fred funk }{

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Looked it up and only played 5. :eek:

The year before was 20.

Now last year was unusual and I work at weekends.

But still , there are many people who have work / child care / sporting commitments every weekend. Add to that social , voluntary , other hobbies etc.

Now you could argue that a person in that situation doesn't have time for inter club - but they would make time for it if on a team.

There is difference in when you have to play and when you could play.
People can make time for interclub - you must play , isn't can you play? if you get me.

It would be wrong to put lads like above in mid life on the scrap heap - some of them are the best players in the club. Some of these are the future of the club when things slow down towards 50s.

Better not say how many I played this year :eek:

I get your points alright Fix but I still maintain that you need to play more than 4 qualifiers to prove your handicap is somewhat accurate and I don't think 10 is asking too much. I'd say if lads knew that they had play the 10 they would make time to play more comps.

decko11

interesting the movement of Pierce Purcell to Scotch was defeated by 3/4 provinces

I'm not sure its a good move

the truest form of team golf is straight foursomes

coddlesangers

decko11 wrote: »

interesting the movement of Pierce Purcell to  Scotch was defeated by 3/4 provinces

I'm not sure its a good move

the truest form of team golf is straight foursomes

That is true, and thats why the Pierce Purcell should be scotch foresomes.  I managed our clubs Pierce Purcell team for a few years, and the experience is inevitably akin to smashing yourself repeatedly in the face with a hammer.  Or being strapped to a chair and being forced to watch re runs of the crankies.  Straight strokes foursomes qualifiers for Pierce Purcell should have been outlawed under the UN Human Rights charter years ago.

SEORG

coddlesangers wrote: »

That is true, and thats why the Pierce Purcell should be scotch foresomes.  I managed our clubs Pierce Purcell team for a few years, and the experience is inevitably akin to smashing yourself repeatedly in the face with a hammer.  Or being strapped to a chair and being forced to watch re runs of the crankies.  Straight strokes foursomes qualifiers for Pierce Purcell should have been outlawed under the UN Human Rights charter years ago.

Maybe they should have just changed it for the strokeplay qualifying rounds (Am I correct that only Leinster has the strokeplay qualifiers?). It's the only change I wouldn't agree with.

decko11

SEORG wrote: »

Maybe they should have just changed it for the strokeplay qualifying rounds (Am I correct that only Leinster has the strokeplay qualifiers?). It's the only change I wouldn't agree with.

I cant agree with the concept of matchplay PP being Scotch

not true matchplay golf

eoghan104

I would leave the matchplay part as straight foursomes.

I was only commenting on qualifiers.

decko11

eoghan104 wrote: »

I would leave the matchplay part as straight foursomes.

I was only commenting on qualifiers.

interesting if as suggested that Leinster is the only province that has strokeplay qualifiers - and the only province that voted in favour

ShriekingSheet

decko11 wrote: »

interesting if as suggested that Leinster is the only province that has strokeplay qualifiers - and the only province that voted in favour

The advent of stroke play is a relatively new thing I think - last 6 or 7 years? Prior to that Barton Shield, Junior, Bruen and Purcell were all just straight to match play.

I presume this has to do with course availability, and the volume of time needed to get through so many matches, versus cutting out the weaker teams via strokes in one day. But I think it's been a bad move for the tournaments.

Foursomes strokes in particular is an ugly process, where everyone knows that a bad score will get you through - it's just a matter of avoiding a horrendous score. Very little fun in it. In singles, nearly every junior cup team qualifies with 4 x 80s, and often worse. Barton Shield is often mid to high 70s to get in. It's a crap shoot.

Going straight to match play increases the likelihood of an upset, where a plucky underdog team can pull down a stronger one - great for the tournament. Far less likely when you have strokes qualifying.

Russman

ShriekingSheet wrote: »

The advent of stroke play is a relatively new thing I think - last 6 or 7 years? Prior to that Barton Shield, Junior, Bruen and Purcell were all just straight to match play.

I presume this has to do with course availability, and the volume of time needed to get through so many matches, versus cutting out the weaker teams via strokes in one day. But I think it's been a bad move for the tournaments.

Foursomes strokes in particular is an ugly process, where everyone knows that a bad score will get you through - it's just a matter of avoiding a horrendous score. Very little fun in it. In singles, nearly every junior cup team qualifies with 4 x 80s, and often worse. Barton Shield is often mid to high 70s to get in. It's a crap shoot.

Going straight to match play increases the likelihood of an upset, where a plucky underdog team can pull down a stronger one - great for the tournament. Far less likely when you have strokes qualifying.

Absolutely agree with all this.

The cynic in me would also wonder if the stronger teams were sick of the odd upset by the underdogs, hence the move to strokeplay.....:D

Ronney

Russman wrote: »

Absolutely agree with all this.

The cynic in me would also wonder if the stronger teams were sick of the odd upset by the underdogs, hence the move to strokeplay.....:D

Looking at the Historic results most of the winners in the last 20 years have come from outside Leinster.

A good few teams have had multiple wins too. I would count playing stroke play qualifiers as being probably as big a disadvantage as not being from Tipperary

ShriekingSheet

Ronney wrote: »

Looking at the Historic results most of the winners in the last 20 years have come from outside Leinster.

A good few teams have had multiple wins too. I would count playing stroke play qualifiers as being probably as big a disadvantage as not being from Tipperary

Not totally clear on your point. Big clubs doesn’t only mean Leinster clubs. There’s plenty of strong clubs all over Ireland.

Rikand

fred funk }{ wrote: »

Better not say how many I played this year :eek:

I get your points alright Fix but I still maintain that you need to play more than 4 qualifiers to prove your handicap is somewhat accurate and I don't think 10 is asking too much. I'd say if lads knew that they had play the 10 they would make time to play more comps.

If I had known at the start of the year that I would need 10 rounds for the year, I would have made sure to play 10 qualifying rounds. As it worked out, with busy family life, I only managed 7. Now I still played for teams and I still got the odd evening during the week for a few holes, but weekend comps..... Only 7.

Putting it up to 10 with no forewarning for this year would have ruled me out of one more shot at junior cup and a return to jimmy Brien for the first time in 10 years which would have majorly pissed me off.

fred funk }{

Rikand wrote: »

If I had known at the start of the year that I would need 10 rounds for the year, I would have made sure to play 10 qualifying rounds. As it worked out, with busy family life, I only managed 7. Now I still played for teams and I still got the odd evening during the week for a few holes, but weekend comps..... Only 7.

Putting it up to 10 with no forewarning for this year would have ruled me out of one more shot at junior cup and a return to jimmy Brien for the first time in 10 years which would have majorly pissed me off.

Don't know if it was proposed to be brought in next year but I would have thought it fair to bring it in for 2019.