Uber Lose licence to Operate in London

Specialun

I know I know..Why should I give a fook about those brits :):) ..but this is big news if you travel to London

https://www.rte.ie/news/uk/2017/0922/906740-london-uber/

Will the black cabbies (Not in Colour) come back now I will Uber eventually sort their sh!t out.

When in London there is a huge difference in the black cabbie fare to the Uber Driver..

McMurphy

I blame the fact you can see who's going to pick you up, before you get in.

Atoms for Peace

Mini-cabs are cheap and plentiful over there, can't see the need for uber.

Doltanian

Saddiqh Khan the Muslim Mayor of London in another disgusting anti-Semitic attack on Uber a company built primarily by Jewish-Americans..

Barnavave

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Hackney's are cheap and plentiful over there, can't see the need for uber.

Haven't been in London in a few years, but Hack's weren't what I'd consider to be cheap when I was working there. Unless of course competition from the likes of Uber have changed their pricing.

Uber are appealing this decision.

Atoms for Peace

Barnavave wrote: »

Haven't been in London in a few years, but Hack's weren't what I'd consider to be cheap when I was working there. Unless of course competition from the likes of Uber have changed their pricing.

Uber are appealing this decision.

Meant to say minicabs.

Bambi985

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Mini-cabs are cheap and plentiful over there, can't see the need for uber.

They absolutely are not, uber are by a country mile far cheaper than any taxi or hackney service you'll get in London and most importantly, you can order them via an app and they'll be there within minutes. I can't think of anyone I know in London myself included that doesn't rely on them as a main method of transport outside of TFL.

Londoners are losing their minds over this and somehow I don't think it's going to be tolerated very long.

The Backwards Man

Uber are a private hire operator in London, same as the minicabs, but they were bypassing all the requirements for a person to become a private hire driver. No way tfl were going to let them away with that.

The sooner these parasitic middlemen of the gig economy are fcuked out on their ear everywhere the better.

A Little Pony

Less rapes happening in London can only help.

El Tarangu

They 'banned' Uber in Brussels, but it just meant that the driver needs to be licenced to carry passengers, not just a regular driving licence. Ubers are still plentiful (though more expensive then they used to be).

Robxxx7

Bambi985 wrote: »

They absolutely are not, uber are by a country mile far cheaper than any taxi or hackney service you'll get in London and most importantly, you can order them via an app and they'll be there within minutes. I can't think of anyone I know in London myself included that doesn't rely on them as a main method of transport outside of TFL.

Londoners are losing their minds over this and somehow I don't think it's going to be tolerated very long.

They are an appalling unsafe unregulated service ... most Londoners i know are glad they are being given the boot

Specialun

A Little Pony wrote: »

Less rapes happening in London can only help.

WTF

A Little Pony

Specialun wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Less rapes happening in London can only help.

WTF

Uber has a big rape issue with dodgy drivers.

flatty

Uber is the best and safest taxi service in the UK. Sin e e

ancapailldorcha

Pretty disgusting example of cronyism here to protect the absurdly overpriced Black cabs. Khan is supposed to be a pro-business mayor.

Doltanian

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Pretty disgusting example of cronyism here to protect the absurdly overpriced Black cabs. Khan is supposed to be a pro-business mayor.

He's Labour, he is more concerned with banning adverts of bikini models and furthering the Islamist cause.

Bambi985

Robxxx7 wrote: »

They are an appalling unsafe unregulated service ... most Londoners i know are glad they are being given the boot

How many do you know?? Uber are ridiculously popular and commonly used over here.

Doltanian

Doltanian wrote: »

Saddiqh Khan the Muslim Mayor of London in another disgusting anti-Semitic attack on Uber a company built primarily by Jewish-Americans..

A Little Pony wrote: »

Less rapes happening in London can only help.

... whut?

Bambi985

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Pretty disgusting example of cronyism here to protect the absurdly overpriced Black cabs. Khan is supposed to be a pro-business mayor.

Yeah black cabs are mental, not sure how they're still doing business. Hilariously expensive and most of them will only take cash, which means an extra tenner to get to and from an ATM.

ancapailldorcha

Bambi985 wrote: »

Yeah black cabs are mental, not sure how they're still doing business. Hilariously expensive and most of them will only take cash, which means an extra tenner to get to and from an ATM.

Helps when you eliminate the competition via lobbying. The cabs are something of a London icon so that gives them sentimental leverage as well.

They take card now by the way.

dinorebel

Doltanian wrote: »

Saddiqh Khan the Muslim Mayor of London in another disgusting anti-Semitic attack on Uber a company built primarily by Jewish-Americans..

Funnily enough being a Black cab driver is the job of choice for many of London's working class Jews but that doesn't really fit your agenda does it?

LuckyLloyd

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Pretty disgusting example of cronyism here to protect the absurdly overpriced Black cabs. Khan is supposed to be a pro-business mayor.

Uber feels good to the end customer, because it's cheaper. But it has negative effects on the economy, and ultimately results in people working for absurdly low rates of pay. This sharing economy nonsense is parasitic and needs to be stamped out. Fair play to TFL for making the move.

lawred2

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Mini-cabs are cheap and plentiful over there, can't see the need for uber.

that's just not true

ancapailldorcha

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Uber feels good to the end customer, because it's cheaper. But it has negative effects on the economy, and ultimately results in people working for absurdly low rates of pay. This sharing economy nonsense is parasitic and needs to be stamped out. Fair play to TFL for making the move.

What negative effects are you talking about? The UK economy is doing fine.

irelandrover

UberPop was banned in the Netherlands as well recently. THey are allowed to operate the more expensive version since the drivers are licensed.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2017/09/dutch-court-upholds-ban-on-controversial-uberpop-service/

Robxxx7

Bambi985 wrote: »

How many do you know?? Uber are ridiculously popular and commonly used over here.

Quite a few ... being one myself

The problem with uber is that they are totally unregulated..and i believe that any public transport needs to be regulated to help keep their passengers safe ...
There have been far too many stories of uber drivers not knowing where they are going, driving wrong way up one way streets, some with criminal records etc ..
I'm not saying that Black cabs are the be all and end all .. but you do pay extra for knowing you are getting into a safe environment with someone who knows where they are going ... They need competition to help drive down prices but it needs to be regulated ... maybe Uber mk2 will be that ..

The Backwards Man

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Pretty disgusting example of cronyism here to protect the absurdly overpriced Black cabs. Khan is supposed to be a pro-business mayor.

It's the likes of Addison Lee that were getting burnt by Uber more than the black cabs.

I thought pro business meant a level playing field no? The likes of Uber have no interest in playing fair. Never have. Never will.

ancapailldorcha

The Backwards Man wrote: »

It's the likes of Addison Lee that were getting burnt by Uber more than the black cabs.

I thought pro business meant a level playing field no? Uber have no interest in playing fair. Never have. Never will.

What laws did Uber break?

The Backwards Man

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

What laws did Uber break?

How do their drivers get their private hire licence?

flatty

Every single one of the many uber drivers I have had think it is great, and most have driven Hackney or black cabs in the past.
I think it's a fantastic service.
And many of their drivers have nicer and less polluting cars than the diesel bilgers favoured by the other cabs.

ancapailldorcha

The Backwards Man wrote: »

How do their drivers get their private hire licence?

You said that they weren't playing far and yet TfL allowed them to operate.

OnDraught

Robxxx7 wrote: »

Quite a few ... being one myself

The problem with uber is that they are totally unregulated..and i believe that any public transport needs to be regulated to help keep their passengers safe ...
There have been far too many stories of uber drivers not knowing where they are going, driving wrong way up one way streets, some with criminal records etc ..
I'm not saying that Black cabs are the be all and end all .. but you do pay extra for knowing you are getting into a safe environment with someone who knows where they are going ... They need competition to help drive down prices but it needs to be regulated ... maybe Uber mk2 will be that ..

How can they go the wrong way when they have to follow the directions on the app?

I also don't know if you're aware of the leaked "Fake Taxi" footage coming out of the black cab industry in London. It's really sleazy.

I've only used it in France during the Euros last year and it was a godsend in Paris for being able to know what your fair will be before you book a cab.

It was even better in Lille when there was no taxis at all and locals were trying to rip fans off by offering to drive them to wherever they were staying for mad prices at 5 in the morning. This led to the most dangerous situations I saw the whole time I was there.

If the normal taxi companies can't provide a service equalling that they shouldn't be in business. That's without even mentioning the price.

The Backwards Man

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You said that they weren't playing far and yet TfL allowed them to operate.

TfL allowed them to operate on condition they adhered to the criteria set down for granting private hire drivers a licence to operate.

They didn't, thought they would get away with a fine and carry on, as often happens with bully boys spending other people's money, but instead TfL have refused to renew their licence.

Where's the cronyism on the city of London's part there?

ancapailldorcha

The Backwards Man wrote: »

TfL allowed them to operate on condition they adhered to the criteria set down for granting private hire drivers a licence to operate.

They didn't, thought they would get away with a fine and carry on, as often happens with bully boys spending other people's money, but instead TfL have refused to renew their licence.

Where's the cronyism on the city of London's part there?

Surely the logical thing to do would have been to update the regulations and/or increase the sanctions.

The cronyism comes from the ludicrously expensive black cab racket which will now face less competition than before.

Robxxx7

OnDraught wrote: »

How can they go the wrong way when they have to follow the directions on the app?

I also don't know if you're aware of the leaked "Fake Taxi" footage coming out of the black cab industry in London. It's really sleazy.

I've only used it in France during the Euros last year and it was a godsend in Paris for being able to know what your fair will be before you book a cab.

It was even better in Lille when there was no taxis at all and locals were trying to rip fans off by offering to drive them to wherever they were staying for mad prices at 5 in the morning. This led to the most dangerous situations I saw the whole time I was there.

If the normal taxi companies can't provide a service equalling that they shouldn't be in business. That's without even mentioning the price.

I hear you ...well aware of the fake stuff doing the rounds ... but was in a car myself once where not only did we go up a wrong way street but i had to give directions on where i wanted to go ... happened to a few friends also ... now it might be due to the area we were in or just pure bad luck ... I'm all for competition but wants to rules/regulation put there to ensure that the car you are getting into is a safe environment .. But i get what you are saying ..and i guess we all have different experiences

The Backwards Man

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Surely the logical thing to do would have been to update the regulations and/or increase the sanctions.

The cronyism comes from the ludicrously expensive black cab racket which will now face less competition than before.

The logical thing would be for Uber to obey the regulations. Surely if it's that much of a racket they would still make huge inroads even if they played by the book?

Dravokivich

Bambi985 wrote: »

They absolutely are not, uber are by a country mile far cheaper than any taxi or hackney service you'll get in London and most importantly, you can order them via an app and they'll be there within minutes. I can't think of anyone I know in London myself included that doesn't rely on them as a main method of transport outside of TFL.

Londoners are losing their minds over this and somehow I don't think it's going to be tolerated very long.

They've only had a trial since May. How dependent on this service could one be within a few months?

Tabnabs

TfL said that it had rejected the company’s application to renew its licence because “Uber’s approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility” in relation to reporting serious criminal offences, obtaining medical certificates and driver background checks.

The licensing body also said it was concerned by Uber’s use of Greyball, software that can be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to its app and undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/22/uber-licence-transport-for-london-tfl

It's the thinnest of grounds to revoke a licence to trade and deny 40,000 drivers a means to make a living. The powerful unions and lobby groups have done their work well and ring-fenced their monopoly. Uber's dramatic rise in popularity and success in London is a clear testament to what can be achieved when state bodies back off and let the consumer decide what they want. It's a black mark on London's reputation as a progressive and open city.

Skylinehead

Doltanian wrote: »

Saddiqh Khan the Muslim Mayor of London in another disgusting anti-Semitic attack on Uber a company built primarily by Jewish-Americans..

Doltanian wrote: »

He's Labour, he is more concerned with banning adverts of bikini models and furthering the Islamist cause.

Yeah, don't post in this thread again.

Woden

They've been around for longer than that. Looking at the history in the app my first uber trip in London was almost 2 years ago.

It's not liked only because it is cheap. It's also really convenient and generally a good experience. On top of that it's the same app used anywhere not just within the UK.

The Backwards Man

Tabnabs wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/22/uber-licence-transport-for-london-tfl

is a clear testament to what can be achieved when state bodies back off and let the consumer decide what they want.

Monorail

LuckyLloyd

TfL considers that Uber's approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility in relation to a number of issues which have potential public safety and security implications. These include:

• Its approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
• Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.
• Its approach to how Enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.
• Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London - software that could be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to the app and prevent officials from undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.

Summary of TFL's reasons for withdrawing the licence. Good riddance.

Digital Solitude

No word on a myTaxi or Kabby ban, despite being rivals to Uber, there's another few companies that offer very similar services I can't remember the name of too.

Don't see how it can be lobbying or cronyism when competitors aren't affected, only Uber.

The Backwards Man

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

TfL considers that Uber's approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility in relation to a number of issues which have potential public safety and security implications. These include:

• Its approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
• Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.
• Its approach to how Enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.
• Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London - software that could be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to the app and prevent officials from undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.

I think by 'approach' they mean lack of.

The Backwards Man

Digital Solitude wrote: »

No word on a myTaxi or Kabby ban, despite being rivals to Uber, there's another few companies that offer very similar services I can't remember the name of too.

Don't see how it can be lobbying or cronyism when competitors aren't affected, only Uber.

Are they openly flouting regulations like Uber? If so, you have a fair point. If not, maybe not.

ancapailldorcha

The Backwards Man wrote: »

The logical thing would be for Uber to obey the regulations. Surely if it's that much of a racket they would still make huge inroads even if they played by the book?

I think regulators should be able to evolve with the markets that they're regulating. Uber didn't invent the business of dodging the rules. This is an industry that's about to be completely revolutionised very soon by automated vehicles so if TfL can't handle a bit of lawyering by Uber then London's transport infrastructure is in trouble.

Digital Solitude

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think regulators should be able to evolve with the markets that they're regulating. Uber didn't invent the business of dodging the rules. This is an industry that's about to be completely revolutionised very soon by automated vehicles so if TfL can't handle a bit of lawyering by Uber then London's transport infrastructure is in trouble.

Where do you draw the line on "lawyering the rules"?

Bit of a ridiculous statement imo

A Little Pony

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Pretty disgusting example of cronyism here to protect the absurdly overpriced Black cabs. Khan is supposed to be a pro-business mayor.

Khan doesn't know what he is doing. He is the worst Mayor of all time. London is a mess with knife crime, thugs on bikes going around terrorizing people, Islamist terrorism is off the charts this year. Do not expect him to be competent on anything.

LuckyLloyd

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think regulators should be able to evolve with the markets that they're regulating. Uber didn't invent the business of dodging the rules. This is an industry that's about to be completely revolutionised very soon by automated vehicles so if TfL can't handle a bit of lawyering by Uber then London's transport infrastructure is in trouble.

Meh, think that argument is pretty impoverished. When you dodge the rules on a giant industry disrupting scale it's going to be noticed. And when your alterations to the rules damage the integrity of the industry or sector you're operating in then just because you want it a certain way is far from a compelling argument for change. And 15 - 20 years into the future is hardly a relevant concern for this case right now.

Not buying it. It's cheap though, everything else be damned.

Dravokivich

A Little Pony wrote: »

Khan doesn't know what he is doing. He is the worst Mayor of all time. London is a mess with knife crime, thugs on bikes going around terrorizing people, Islamist terrorism is off the charts this year. Do not expect him to be competent on anything.

Why would anyone think that's his fault? Does he need to spear tackle a kid or something, as Borris has done?

OnDraught

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Meh, think that argument is pretty impoverished. When you dodge the rules on a giant industry disrupting scale it's going to be noticed. And when your alterations to the rules damage the integrity of the industry or sector you're operating in then just because you want it a certain way is far from a compelling argument for change. And 15 - 20 years into the future is hardly a relevant concern for this case right now.

Not buying it. It's cheap though, everything else be damned.

It's a lot more than just cheap though. They provide a more predictable, more reliable and arguably in my experience a safer service.