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Bus Eireann Possible Strike
Comments
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Another batch of cancellationsRoute 103 Dublin-Ashbourne-Ratoath
19.58 Dublin/Ratoath
21.02 Ratoath/Dublin
21.58 Dublin/Ratoath
22.58 Dublin/Ratoath
23.02 Ratoath/Dublin
00.02 Ratoath/Dublin0 -
I heard a driver today talking saying it could happen any day and that they were looking for more work less pay him being sarcastic, That is basically what happened from the last strike they had. They did not get any more pay or better conditions but now are supposed to work longer hours. I think that is wrong they have to have time for family and socialising too. I hope it can all be sorted out without them having to strike again.
Live long and Prosper
Peace and long life.
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I heard a driver today talking saying it could happen any day and that they were looking for more work less pay him being sarcastic, That is basically what happened from the last strike they had. They did not get any more pay or better conditions but now are supposed to work longer hours. I think that is wrong they have to have time for family and socialising too. I hope it can all be sorted out without them having to strike again.
I think there were more complex issues than what you mentioned. Such as redundancies, cuts to overtime etc.
There are many misunderstanding when it comes to strikes such as "The DB workers only went on strike coz the Luas workers did and they got an increase".0 -
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Complex issues become a lot less complex when the pay increase cash appears.
I'm just waiting until unions start complaining about passenger safety, although I think the public have caught on to that one by now.
I do agree most issues do regard pay but pay can be a lot more ompex than it seems there are other payments issued such as overtime.
When have transport unions complained about passenger safety? They generally openly admit what the issues are ie pay.0 -
Gone quiet lately, but here's some recent "news" with regards to BE:-
http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-eireann-delays-3617169-Sep2017/Siptu sector organiser Willie Noone said that its members made the company aware prior to the schedule changes that they thought routes could not be operated as advertised.
“Management was made aware that all the necessary drivers had not been route trained, it knew that certain journeys could not be done in the times allocated, and that rosters showing people working through the night on shifts of nearly 13-hours duration were not workable".
"The issue of giving short breaks to drivers in remote locations, which did not allow drivers the chance to either avail of a toilet break or indeed take a rest period in line with legal requirements, had also been highlighted".
http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/28/4146495-bus-eireann-attempts-to-lure-drivers-for-navandublin-route/
This is interesting!Bus Eireann is now looking to get Dublin Bus drivers to move over and work the 109 routes for a temporary period until Christmas, while keeping their same pay.0 -
Gone quiet lately, but here's some recent "news" with regards to BE:-
http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-eireann-delays-3617169-Sep2017/
http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/roundup/articles/2017/09/28/4146495-bus-eireann-attempts-to-lure-drivers-for-navandublin-route/
This is interesting!
On the other thread, this issue was highlighted by a forum user.
Forum user Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime said:
"Something to help the folk here not snip at the drivers of these routes as going out sick etc as the reason they are not operating".
"A staff notice has appeared in summerhill depot of Dublin bus of any driver wishing to transfer to bus Eireann until the end of the year."
"Working Monday to Friday on the NX route."
"This proves my previous point I made on another thread that the NTA and the company has to impose a new route / timetables without adequate resources."
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...&postcount=159
This forum user made a number of other relevant observations:
In the first link below, forum user, Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime, states the following:
"From this week I noted drivers are exhausted, they are doing crazy hours under new rotas and shifts and bearly getting any time for other things like family , excercise or in other cases very little sleep. So expect a few days where drivers will call in sick for this but it's not an unofficial strike or unofficial action. The company will hire in private operators to help cover services".
On Saturday 30th September the 11.45pm 109 from Bus Aras to Kells, was a Tully's coach. That backs up what Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime is stating.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104773128&postcount=24
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104774399&postcount=27
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104774429&postcount=28
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104774572&postcount=30
In this post below, Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime makes this insightful observation:
"To show you how much ray Hernan knows about our job, he asked one of the Dublin to cork drivers , how many times does he do it a day ? 2 ? 3 ?
Cork is over 4 hours on a bus Eireann bus and if we did anymore on top of that we'd be breaking the law , but this guy is about getting every last bit from us".
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104775141&postcount=330 -
I know it was mentioned in the N3/M3 thread, but I think this topic is more suited to this thread as it's an accusation of (unofficial) industrial action which is more appropriate to this thread as it is/has affected other routes than the M3 Corridor.
The accusation:-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885Regina Doherty wrote:It is clear that an unofficial labour dispute is in progress
And the NBRUs responce:-
https://twitter.com/DermotLeary/status/918853856460705792Dermot O Leary wrote:Scurrilous Accusations
P.S perhaps the thread should be re-titled to "Possible BE Industrial Action" or something similar?0 -
I know it was mentioned in the N3/M3 thread, but I think this topic is more suited to this thread as it's an accusation of (unofficial) industrial action which is more appropriate to this thread as it is/has affected other routes than the M3 Corridor.
The accusation:-
https://facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1147754588691096&id=677425502390676&__tn__=%2As%2As-R
And the NBRUs responce:-
https://twitter.com/DermotLeary/status/918853856460705792
P.S perhaps the thread should be re-titled to "Possible BE Industrial Action" or something similar?
Regina Doherty seems to have removed her post. the facebook link is saying page not found for me anyway.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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end of the road wrote: »Regina Doherty seems to have removed her post. the facebook link is saying page not found for me anyway.
Here's a fixed link:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885I have met with the acting CEO of Bus Eireann, Ray Hernan, again, armed with the feedback that you have provided to me. It is clear that an unofficial labour dispute is in progress.
In the last week alone, 299 replacement buses had to be drafted in to cover the Eastern bus corridor where drivers aren’t showing up for work, at a cost of €150,000. It’s unacceptable for Meath commuters to be left stranded in this fashion. This simply cannot continue.
This morning I wrote to Dermot O’Leary of the National Bus and Railworkers Union (NBRU) and Joe O’Flynn of SIPTU. I will be asking that they engage in discussion with Bus Éireann to bring about a resolution to this dispute so that Meath commuters will once again have a bus service they can rely on.
Bus Eireann have since confirmed to RTE that the figures quoted by Regina Doherty are correct.0 -
Here's a fixed link:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1892153037769339&id=100009239844885
Bus Eireann have since confirmed to RTE that the figures quoted by Regina Doherty are correct.
that link works. thanks.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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Bus Éireann has deferred the implementation of new cost saving rosters for drivers for a fortnight following discussions at the Workplace Relations Commission yesterday.
They will now be implemented on 12 November, with more regard given to seniority in the allocation of duties.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1025/915211-bus-eireann/0 -
The new rosters which were due to come in on November 12 (see post above) were deferred due to no agreement between staff and management.
Now BE has stated they will introduce them from next Sunday - as a result the unions will be balloting for strike if they do.
More unrest ahead......0 -
The new rosters which were due to come in on November 12 (see post above) were deferred due to no agreement between staff and management.
Now BE has stated they will introduce them from next Sunday - as a result the unions will be balloting for strike if they do.
More unrest ahead......
So what are BE doing that wasn't in the Labour Court deal?0 -
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I figured that part but didn't the labour court deal mean major changes so any idea what the exact issue it they can't agree on?
As I understand it, that the changes that Bus Éireann wants to bring in, would mean that drivers - who are scheduled to drive services throughout the day, where in between services they drive, they can have two hours long gaps in between the services they are scheduled to drive - would only be paid for the time during the day that they are driving, even though they can have hours of a gap in between services they are scheduled to drive. I think it is often the case, that depending on where the drivers are located in between services, that it is not possible, or convenient, for them to go home, during the gap in between the services they are scheduled to drive.
My understanding is, that the changes will mean that they will only be paid for the time that they are driving, which means that they can be hanging around for a number of hours during the day, in between the particular services they are scheduled to drive, but not getting paid for the time they are waiting to drive their next scheduled service.0 -
I figured that part but didn't the labour court deal mean major changes so any idea what the exact issue it they can't agree on?
The amount of unpaid breaks (2 hours 45 minutes max) has increased under proposed rosters, also issues with rosters not available for discussion in the required 6 week timeframe and negotiations not taking place.
The recommendation also required any issues regarding rostering to be addressed via binding arbitration - the company are implementing the changes without going down this route.0 -
Lads, sort it out with talks don't screw over the public, please.
This sounds like a technical issue that could easily be overcome.
The strike totally backfired last time and there was no public support and political support was even less, played right into the hands of the hard right band of ideologues in FG who have plans you really don't want seeing the light of day and made it impossible for those of us on the center left to defend you
If you (and apparently you are)of a mind that even tendering out PSO routes the way is happening with DB is too much for you then all this will do is play right into the hands of those of us who want that to happen (or, as I said, those in FG who want full on privatization). The strike last time made people more aware of private alternatives that were reasonably priced and more comfortable in some cases, it only hurt you.
Don't make the same mistake twice. Like many PS workers in Ireland you labor under the false sense of having a permanent unremovable job so have a mentality of there is nothing to lose, but there is a lot to lose, it's not 1970 anymore there are alternative policy models out there and the decision on adopting them (and how secure you are in them) is in the hands of political leaders who can be elected (or not) by the passengers you annoy with this kind of action. Management and politicos are not hurt by the strike, only the voting public who have the power to take actions which will upset the very nice apple cart you have going in terms and conditions.0 -
Lads, sort it out with talks don't screw over the public, please.
This sounds like a technical issue that could easily be overcome.
if the company forces through the changes without the required agreement the staff are entitled to withdraw their labour, as the company hasn't stuck to it's side of the agreement. they do need to ultimately talk but the company is the one now causing the issue by forcing through changes without agreement and talks.
The strike totally backfired last time and there was no public support and political support was even less, played right into the hands of the hard right band of ideologues in FG who have plans you really don't want seeing the light of day and made it impossible for those of us on the center left to defend you
If you (and apparently you are)of a mind that even tendering out PSO routes the way is happening with DB is too much for you then all this will do is play right into the hands of those of us who want that to happen (or, as I said, those in FG who want full on privatization). The strike last time made people more aware of private alternatives that were reasonably priced and more comfortable in some cases, it only hurt you.
Don't make the same mistake twice. Like many PS workers in Ireland you labor under the false sense of having a permanent unremovable job so have a mentality of there is nothing to lose, but there is a lot to lose, it's not 1970 anymore there are alternative policy models out there and the decision on adopting them (and how secure you are in them) is in the hands of political leaders who can be elected (or not) by the passengers you annoy with this kind of action. Management and politicos are not hurt by the strike, only the voting public who have the power to take actions which will upset the very nice apple cart you have going in terms and conditions.
the strike didn't backfire as the changes proposed were going to be implemented whether there was a strike or not, the strike was more about forcing the company to talk, which until now it had done. it had a good bit of public support, public support never making any difference in terms of sorting out the issues between staff and their employer.
as a complete centrist, it was very easy for me to defend staff withdrawing their labour, and i and many others will continue to defend that ability. tendering/privatization will not stop strikes or any of the issues with public transport, so those who want it want it for the sake of it, as they already know the realities. prices would likely go up without a state operator in the mix, + it's government policy to insure the prices on subsidized services are high so that passengers pay the greater share for the service.
the alternative policy models usually end up more expensive for less, as government only ever works in it's own interest and not of the people's interest. public service terms and conditions won't be eroded, as the ps workers will do what they need to to insure it won't happen, and they will have mine, and many others full support. because if their terms are eroded, the rest of us will definitely have ours eroded, making us a low wage, no workers rights economy. the only people to blame for that will not be the public service workers, but those who want it to happen, who will use any excuse to get their way.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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end of the road wrote: »the alternative policy models usually end up more expensive for less, as government only ever works in it's own interest and not of the people's interest.
Well the evidence here in Ireland seems to say otherwise.
Luas is incredibly successful and it requires no operating subsidy, actually makes a profit.
The new intercity bus services are the best thing to happen to intercity travel in more then a decade, having substantially grown the numbers of people using public transport intercity and have done so profitably with zero government subsidy.
Both are examples of alternative government policies and both have been very successful.
As for the government working for it's own interest! Huh, the government departments do what they are directed to do by the government ministers who are elected and re-elected by the people of Ireland.0 -
Well the evidence here in Ireland seems to say otherwise.
Luas is incredibly successful and it requires no operating subsidy, actually makes a profit.
it has the passenger patronage and it's infrastructure is quite minimal. that is why it makes a profit. i'd bet most tram systems make a profit or break even at least. i wouldn't put that down to privatization or private operation/tendering.The new intercity bus services are the best thing to happen to intercity travel in more then a decade, having substantially grown the numbers of people using public transport intercity and have done so profitably with zero government subsidy. Both are examples of alternative government policies and both have been very successful.
again they have the passenger patronage to allow for profitability. it just so happens to be some private operators operating quite a lot, but bus eireann, had they listened to their staff and implemented similar, would also be profitible on those routes. i believe they are profitible on the few big expressway routes they have. other expressway routes aren't really expressway. requiring no subsidy just proves that there is enough paying custom, it doesn't prove privatization works.As for the government working for it's own interest! Huh, the government departments do what they are directed to do by the government ministers who are elected and re-elected by the people of Ireland.
being elected makes no difference to politicians. they do what they like and work in their own interests.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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Well the evidence here in Ireland seems to say otherwise.
Luas is incredibly successful and it requires no operating subsidy, actually makes a profit.
The new intercity bus services are the best thing to happen to intercity travel in more then a decade, having substantially grown the numbers of people using public transport intercity and have done so profitably with zero government subsidy.
Both are examples of alternative government policies and both have been very successful.
As for the government working for it's own interest! Huh, the government departments do what they are directed to do by the government ministers who are elected and re-elected by the people of Ireland.
I think end of the road makes a good point about the issue of terms and conditions of employment, and the importance of defending these terms and conditions.
Indeed, the Luas is a great service, but you'll recall the negative reaction from some people on boards.ie, and on other media outlets like RTE Liveline, when the Luas strike was on last year.
People saying things to the effect of; "What's their problem, why aren't they happy with what they're getting, for the simple job they do. All they do is push a button. Others are getting less than them."
Some of the callers on Liveline, on 1st April 2016, are an example of these type of comments. One guy, from Carlow, who seemingly never went into Dublin City Centre before the Luas was developed, blamed the strike for him not getting into town, to celebrate the 1916 Centenary events, despite the fact that he could have taken trains into Heuston Station, then connected with Dublin Bus, or taxi, or other bus services to Dublin from the town in which he lives.
This guy contradicts himself by saying that the Luas employees, aren't as badly off as people in other areas of employment, that do not have Trade Union representation, but at the same time he criticizes Luas employees who are members of Trade Unions, for taking a decision, in co-operation with Trade Unions, to campaign to uphold the terms and conditions of their employment.
Does he not consider, that if the people in employment with no Trade Union representation, had representation, that they might have better terms and conditions, or does he want any employees of any company, who might engage in industrial action, to have less terms and conditions, on the basis that employees in another company, have less terms and conditions?
Another guy insults the Luas employees by saying "a child could drive a Luas tram", and he basis this assertion by saying that children can operate aeroplanes on computer games.
https://rte.ie/r.html?rii=b9_20962166_53_01-04-2016_
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/programmes/2016/0401/778867-liveline-friday-1-april-2016/0 -
I figured that part but didn't the labour court deal mean major changes so any idea what the exact issue it they can't agree on?
Seems to me they want to keep the old rostering system that was in place but accept the new pay scale, without actually changing the rostering and work practices that was agreed at the LRC. Perhaps the penny is dropping for the drivers to what they singed up for?0 -
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I don't want to go on strike again
I don't want to lose more money, I don't want the place to shut down resulting in thousands of jobs lost and also don't want people to get more pissed off at us
It has been a night mare since the last strike, people have been pissed off at us and still not forgiving us, people are ungodly rude to us, speak down to us like we are nothing, like sh!t , spit on us, call us abusive names and all sorts
And for what ? Us trying to do a job, us accepting a deal to help out the company when all others got pay rises and we got cuts.
All we want to do is our job but we can't be gone from the home for over 12 hours a day working for crap like the above and only getting paid 8 hours now when we are in from 7am until 8pm (like I am tomorrow start and finish time, not including the commute to and from the depot) ,
We really have no life thanks to all this, coupled with the fact we only get about 9 to 11 hours gap between working so that the rest time is used for sleeping.
The absenteeism is a lie, what actually happened is a hape of drivers took the voluntary severance package, a hape of drivers left the job at their own will over these crap working conditions, we must've lost near 60 drivers out of Dublin alone recently from just leaving and hopefully I will be one soon if this isint changed and I secure a new job.
The place is such a depressing kip to work in now with taking abuse from the inspectors and up aswell as being treated like dirt from the public,
A few times now I've just been tempted to take the keys out and walk away home mid route from some of the things that have been said to me it's that bad.
But yet we are the ones getting the blame for everything, like we made these decisions or implemented the new NX route without hiring drivers
We did not want to go on strike on indefinite terms, the worst think the poxy clowns did, lose 3 weeks wages, lose customers and piss everyone off, it was a poxy joke.
There is a strong belief among drivers that unions and management are in this together and we're all annoyed too, trying to either put us down and get rid of us or just playing with us altogether to see how far we go, but it's gotten stupid now at this stage and personally I don't have much hope anymore,
and sorry to the thousands of people that do not have access to private companies or rural transport (yes lads they are out there in their thousands who only have bus Eireann for a bus) but sadly you will be left without a bus soon for definite, thanks to the fine Gael government that just wants to privatise all buses and trains and do us out of the job like we are scum for some reason.
But I hope Regina Doherty is happy and has a lot to answer for when she supported a company decision to put over 3 thousand people on the social welfare , and I hope enda is happy on about 3 pensions in mayo when his family and friends and neighbors have no bus in mayo anymore from local, commuter and expressway.
Anne Graham of the NTA who gets paid the same amount of money as the Taoiseach of this country for no where near the same amount of work, happy to watch the working person suffer and give our work to private companies for their own greed.
Shane Ross as the minister for transport who supports the government in privatisation , who hasn't done much for transport but says he is giving more for this and that is more interested in avoiding transport issues, more interested in sport ,
And the public who fell for all this and agree , that when I'm trying to make my way home from work at night after a long day, when you have the handy Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 job and are having drinks with friends on a weekend, shout abuse at me in the street calling me a prick and saying they hope they do shut down and privatise us
I hope they all sleep well at night in comfort they are all safe and financially secure while about 3 thousands of us fear and stress and lose sleep not knowing if one day we won't have a job to go into or a weeks wages to come home with.
(All above happened to me)0 -
I reckon if a strike does happen it'll be the end of BÉ as we know it. There can't be an expectation to not deliver on productivity when earning twice as much as median wage.0
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Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »I don't want to go on strike again
I don't want to lose more money, I don't want the place to shut down resulting in thousands of jobs lost and also don't want people to get more pissed off at us
It has been a night mare since the last strike, people have been pissed off at us and still not forgiving us, people are ungodly rude to us, speak down to us like we are nothing, like sh!t , spit on us, call us abusive names and all sorts
And for what ? Us trying to do a job, us accepting a deal to help out the company when all others got pay rises and we got cuts.
All we want to do is our job but we can't be gone from the home for over 12 hours a day working for crap like the above and only getting paid 8 hours now when we are in from 7am until 8pm (like I am tomorrow start and finish time, not including the commute to and from the depot) ,
We really have no life thanks to all this, coupled with the fact we only get about 9 to 11 hours gap between working so that the rest time is used for sleeping.
The absenteeism is a lie, what actually happened is a hape of drivers took the voluntary severance package, a hape of drivers left the job at their own will over these crap working conditions, we must've lost near 60 drivers out of Dublin alone recently from just leaving and hopefully I will be one soon if this isint changed and I secure a new job.
The place is such a depressing kip to work in now with taking abuse from the inspectors and up aswell as being treated like dirt from the public,
A few times now I've just been tempted to take the keys out and walk away home mid route from some of the things that have been said to me it's that bad.
But yet we are the ones getting the blame for everything, like we made these decisions or implemented the new NX route without hiring drivers
We did not want to go on strike on indefinite terms, the worst think the poxy clowns did, lose 3 weeks wages, lose customers and piss everyone off, it was a poxy joke.
There is a strong belief among drivers that unions and management are in this together and we're all annoyed too, trying to either put us down and get rid of us or just playing with us altogether to see how far we go, but it's gotten stupid now at this stage and personally I don't have much hope anymore,
and sorry to the thousands of people that do not have access to private companies or rural transport (yes lads they are out there in their thousands who only have bus Eireann for a bus) but sadly you will be left without a bus soon for definite, thanks to the fine Gael government that just wants to privatise all buses and trains and do us out of the job like we are scum for some reason.
But I hope Regina Doherty is happy and has a lot to answer for when she supported a company decision to put over 3 thousand people on the social welfare , and I hope enda is happy on about 3 pensions in mayo when his family and friends and neighbors have no bus in mayo anymore from local, commuter and expressway.
Anne Graham of the NTA who gets paid the same amount of money as the Taoiseach of this country for no where near the same amount of work, happy to watch the working person suffer and give our work to private companies for their own greed.
Shane Ross as the minister for transport who supports the government in privatisation , who hasn't done much for transport but says he is giving more for this and that is more interested in avoiding transport issues, more interested in sport ,
And the public who fell for all this and agree , that when I'm trying to make my way home from work at night after a long day, when you have the handy Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 job and are having drinks with friends on a weekend, shout abuse at me in the street calling me a prick and saying they hope they do shut down and privatise us
I hope they all sleep well at night in comfort they are all safe and financially secure while about 3 thousands of us fear and stress and lose sleep not knowing if one day we won't have a job to go into or a weeks wages to come home with.
(All above happened to me)
A lot to take in there. Do you work 12 hours everyday. I thought the roster was split into a fortnight, so that you do your 80 hours or whatever it is over this timeframe, with no more premium payments for weekend work.0 -
Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »I don't want to go on strike again
I don't want to lose more money, I don't want the place to shut down resulting in thousands of jobs lost and also don't want people to get more pissed off at us
It has been a night mare since the last strike, people have been pissed off at us and still not forgiving us, people are ungodly rude to us, speak down to us like we are nothing, like sh!t , spit on us, call us abusive names and all sorts
And for what ? Us trying to do a job, us accepting a deal to help out the company when all others got pay rises and we got cuts.
All we want to do is our job but we can't be gone from the home for over 12 hours a day working for crap like the above and only getting paid 8 hours now when we are in from 7am until 8pm (like I am tomorrow start and finish time, not including the commute to and from the depot) ,
We really have no life thanks to all this, coupled with the fact we only get about 9 to 11 hours gap between working so that the rest time is used for sleeping.
The absenteeism is a lie, what actually happened is a hape of drivers took the voluntary severance package, a hape of drivers left the job at their own will over these crap working conditions, we must've lost near 60 drivers out of Dublin alone recently from just leaving and hopefully I will be one soon if this isint changed and I secure a new job.
The place is such a depressing kip to work in now with taking abuse from the inspectors and up aswell as being treated like dirt from the public,
A few times now I've just been tempted to take the keys out and walk away home mid route from some of the things that have been said to me it's that bad.
But yet we are the ones getting the blame for everything, like we made these decisions or implemented the new NX route without hiring drivers
We did not want to go on strike on indefinite terms, the worst think the poxy clowns did, lose 3 weeks wages, lose customers and piss everyone off, it was a poxy joke.
There is a strong belief among drivers that unions and management are in this together and we're all annoyed too, trying to either put us down and get rid of us or just playing with us altogether to see how far we go, but it's gotten stupid now at this stage and personally I don't have much hope anymore,
and sorry to the thousands of people that do not have access to private companies or rural transport (yes lads they are out there in their thousands who only have bus Eireann for a bus) but sadly you will be left without a bus soon for definite, thanks to the fine Gael government that just wants to privatise all buses and trains and do us out of the job like we are scum for some reason.
But I hope Regina Doherty is happy and has a lot to answer for when she supported a company decision to put over 3 thousand people on the social welfare , and I hope enda is happy on about 3 pensions in mayo when his family and friends and neighbors have no bus in mayo anymore from local, commuter and expressway.
Anne Graham of the NTA who gets paid the same amount of money as the Taoiseach of this country for no where near the same amount of work, happy to watch the working person suffer and give our work to private companies for their own greed.
Shane Ross as the minister for transport who supports the government in privatisation , who hasn't done much for transport but says he is giving more for this and that is more interested in avoiding transport issues, more interested in sport ,
And the public who fell for all this and agree , that when I'm trying to make my way home from work at night after a long day, when you have the handy Monday to Friday, 9 to 5 job and are having drinks with friends on a weekend, shout abuse at me in the street calling me a prick and saying they hope they do shut down and privatise us
I hope they all sleep well at night in comfort they are all safe and financially secure while about 3 thousands of us fear and stress and lose sleep not knowing if one day we won't have a job to go into or a weeks wages to come home with.
(All above happened to me)
i'm so very sorry for your situation and that of your fellow workers.
all you did was withdraw your labour, something anyone is entitled to do. i know you didn't want to have to do it but i completely understand you had no choice as the company would not talk.
the members of the public throwing abuse at you are nothing but vermin and that is me being polite on that description in this case.
they are the type who if i'm honest, would deserve to have no bus service, but unfortunately if they have none, others who don't abuse you would suffer, which wouldn't be fair.
i agree with you on your statements about ross and company.I reckon if a strike does happen it'll be the end of BÉ as we know it. There can't be an expectation to not deliver on productivity when earning twice as much as median wage.
to be fair, you can't expect the staff to stand for measures simply being pushed through when the agreement says they need to be discussed between all parties and agreed upon. it was pushing through things without insuring there were no issues that caused the last round of strike action. the management obviously haven't learned the lesson. another strike may very much be the end of be as we know it but it won't be prity when people are left without a bus service altogether for an unknown period of time. at least with a strike people know how long it will be before service resumes.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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Join Date:Posts: 3789
A lot to take in there. Do you work 12 hours everyday. I thought the roster was split into a fortnight, so that you do your 80 hours or whatever it is over this timeframe, with no more premium payments for weekend work.
I get a text message about 12 - 2pm during the day to tell me what I'm working the following day, so I have a history of all work in my phone, I can't screenshot them because they contain personal information about me
But my last 20 shifts that I did , 16 of them were 11hour 30mins and longer (up to 13 hours)
Of the four shifts that weren't 12 hours long, they were ONLY 9 hours long, 7 hour 50mins being the shortest.
End of the road, thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.0 -
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Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »I don't want to go on strike again
Mad idea. How about you don't? Don't want the public to turn against you, stop preventing them from getting to work. Do your job.Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »But yet we are the ones getting the blame for everything, like we made these decisions or implemented the new NX route without hiring drivers
And of course the unofficial strike action with the absentee rate increased massively has nothing to do with it eh? All management's fault again sure.Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »and sorry to the thousands of people that do not have access to private companies or rural transport (yes lads they are out there in their thousands who only have bus Eireann for a bus) but sadly you will be left without a bus soon for definite, thanks to the fine Gael government that just wants to privatise all buses and trains and do us out of the job like we are scum for some reason.
But I hope Regina Doherty is happy and has a lot to answer for when she supported a company decision to put over 3 thousand people on the social welfare , and I hope enda is happy on about 3 pensions in mayo when his family and friends and neighbors have no bus in mayo anymore from local, commuter and expressway.
The reason Fine Gael, and others, are looking to diversify the transport market is to reduce the dependence on one operator like yours who's unions decide to cause misery for the travelling public. The more competition for me getting to work the better. If BE is on strike I can walk across the river to get an AirCoach, or Dublin Coach, or CityLink. The more BE is broken up & PSO routes contracted out the better.0 -
Mad idea. How about you don't? Don't want the public to turn against you, stop preventing them from getting to work. Do your job.
he is doing his job. as are all bus eireann drivers.
the public have no right to abuse anyone. your victim blaming is shameful. how about the public stop abusing people for doing something they are entitled to do. while people don't have to agree with it, they have no right to disrespect people for withdrawing their labour, when those same members of the public could do it if they wanted.And of course the unofficial strike action with the absentee rate increased massively has nothing to do with it eh? All management's fault again sure.
there was no such action. as he said, a number of drivers took redundantsies and left.The reason Fine Gael, and others, are looking to diversify the transport market is to reduce the dependence on one operator like yours who's unions decide to cause misery for the travelling public.
no it's to try and degrade the terms and conditions of workers, and to remove accountability from themselves. at greater over all cost to the tax payer, as profit making businesses will expect to be paid and make a healthy profit. the unions will still be able to bring things to a stand still if they need to to insure the interests of their members are upheld, as they will deal with issues across all companies at the same time, meaning an all-out strike can and will still happen. the small amount of subsidized routes we have mean 1 company is the most cost effective. a market is only viable on profitible intercity routes, the rest of the routes are not a bus market and a bus market would lead to only one outcome.The more competition for me getting to work the better. If BE is on strike I can walk across the river to get an AirCoach, or Dublin Coach, or CityLink.
there will be no competition on the vast majority of subsidized routes as it's not financially viable. there may be the odd bit of over-lap of routes but that will be by accident.The more BE is broken up & PSO routes contracted out the better.
not the better at all, as duplication brings huge wastage and costs. all for nothing in return.
1 state company which is mostly non-profit, verses multiple companies who are profit making and who will require payment and to make a healthy profit on the most loss making of routes. waste of time over a day strike.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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end of the road wrote: »he is doing his job. as are all bus eireann drivers.
the public have no right to abuse anyone. your victim blaming is shameful. how about the public stop abusing people for doing something they are entitled to do. while people don't have to agree with it, they have no right to disrespect people for withdrawing their labour, when those same members of the public could do it if they wanted.
Where did I say I supported abuse of anyone? I'm talking about public support. Please read a post before responding to it.
The public, any person for that matter, reserves the right to have an opinion on 'withdrawal of labour', especially when this action causes themselves to be without a days pay, lose an important appointment etc.end of the road wrote: »
no it's to try and degrade the terms and conditions of workers, and to remove accountability from themselves. at greater over all cost to the tax payer, as profit making businesses will expect to be paid and make a healthy profit. the unions will still be able to bring things to a stand still if they need to to insure the interests of their members are upheld, as they will deal with issues across all companies at the same time, meaning an all-out strike can and will still happen. the small amount of subsidized routes we have mean 1 company is the most cost effective. a market is only viable on profitible intercity routes, the rest of the routes are not a bus market and a bus market would lead to only one outcome.
there will be no competition on the vast majority of subsidized routes as it's not financially viable. there may be the odd bit of over-lap of routes but that will be by accident.
not the better at all, as duplication brings huge wastage and costs. all for nothing in return.
1 state company which is mostly non-profit, verses multiple companies who are profit making and who will require payment and to make a healthy profit on the most loss making of routes. waste of time over a day strike.
Again, please do try to read why I post. Contract out PSO routes to private operators. The competition is in the contracting. Not the running of the route. The free market has given us some healthy competition on the inter-urban routes, to which BE couldn't compete anymore. A bloated company, relic of an era where they had the monopoly.
BE, if it is still around in a few years, can tender for routes just as any other company can.0 -
Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »I get a text message about 12 - 2pm during the day to tell me what I'm working the following day, so I have a history of all work in my phone, I can't screenshot them because they contain personal information about me
But my last 20 shifts that I did , 16 of them were 11hour 30mins and longer (up to 13 hours)
Of the four shifts that weren't 12 hours long, they were ONLY 9 hours long, 7 hour 50mins being the shortest.
End of the road, thanks for the kind words, much appreciated.
Surely you aren't driving for 11 hours and 30 minutes or longer?
My OH is a nurse doing 13 hour shifts. Your clock watching has no comparison to what she has to say about her 13 hours.0 -
Where did I say I supported abuse of anyone? I'm talking about public support. Please read a post before responding to it.
i read the post, public support while nice means jot in a strike. it has never solved a dispute. there is no excuse for the abuse bus eireann drivers receive. you effectively implied that you condone such abuse in my view.The public, any person for that matter, reserves the right to have an opinion on 'withdrawal of labour', especially when this action causes themselves to be without a days pay, lose an important appointment etc.
they get notice. i knew plenty of people effected by the strike, however they would never under any circumstances abuse staff, in fact while a couple of them didn't support the strike, they completely understood that the staff felt they had no other option.Again, please do try to read why I post. Contract out PSO routes to private operators. The competition is in the contracting. Not the running of the route. The free market has given us some healthy competition on the inter-urban routes, to which BE couldn't compete anymore. A bloated company, relic of an era where they had the monopoly.
BE, if it is still around in a few years, can tender for routes just as any other company can.
contracting out to private operators is not financially viable in my view, as they have to make a profit, duplication usually brings greater cost, and there will never be anywhere enough small operators who would be willing to run for a few quid. contracting is not competition, the only competition is where the user actually benefits, IE from multiple operators on the same route. 1 operator bidding a bit less, to a regulated offering is not competition. be can more than compete, in fact they do on most of their expressway routes, however, they are effectively guilt tripped into continuing to serve towns via a couple of their expressway services. the free market only gave competition on the inter-urban routes because they are financially viable, the subsidized routes aren't, so can't have competition, the free market would require those routes to be withdrawn du to non-viability. be is not a bloated company, 30/40 years ago maybe but definitely not now.
be, if it is still around are the best option to run the routes as it keeps over-all costs low, it is not the job of the tax payer to subsidize private industry.jimmycrackcorm wrote: »Surely you aren't driving for 11 hours and 30 minutes or longer?
My OH is a nurse doing 13 hour shifts. Your clock watching has no comparison to what she has to say about her 13 hours.
it has a somewhat similar comparison. a driver who can be driving long distances on a regular basis needs to be hugely rested.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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jimmycrackcorm wrote: »Surely you aren't driving for 11 hours and 30 minutes or longer?
My OH is a nurse doing 13 hour shifts. Your clock watching has no comparison to what she has to say about her 13 hours.
Noone should be working those hours constantly in the first place they're unhealty unsafe and in some circumstances illegal. Petty point scoring is meaningless on this as both roles shouldnt be working that long to begin with.0 -
All we want to do is our job but we can't be gone from the home for over 12 hours a day working for crap like the above and only getting paid 8 hours now when we are in from 7am until 8pm (like I am tomorrow start and finish time, not including the commute to and from the depot) ,
We really have no life thanks to all this, coupled with the fact we only get about 9 to 11 hours gap between working so that the rest time is used for sleeping.
Here a shocking thought, if you hate your job that much then quit and get a 9-5 job. Plenty of people have it much worse than bus drivers, lots doing 12 hour shifts and not coming out with anything close to a BE driver salary.
You can cry and moan all you want on the internet but you won't find much sympathy apart from other drivers. Or, you can stop crying and find a new job. No one is forcing you to drive a bus and that have no life, that is a choice you are making.
Since the strike BE services have been awful, buses not showing up, busesr
arriving over an hour late. Drivers refusing to stop at bus stops full of people, drivers refusing to get off their holes to put out the disable ramp. Saw that happen quite a bit lately as according to a driver "it's not his job". There was also an incident during the past week where a driver in Galway was reported to the guards for pushing a passenger out of a bus and hurting them badly as the driver did not believe that the passengers child had special needs. People see this carry on and it's why they have so little respect for drivers. Respect is earned and BE drivers have done nothing to earn it. When I asked a driver recently why the bus was an hour late, he replied screaming "why don't you **** yourself" followed by "cu*t". I was polite and not aggressive and just curious as to why it was late.
Take a look at the BE twitter, its thousands and thousands upon tweets replying to issues people are having. People are fed up of drivers being rude and disrespectful and then crying poor mouth at every chance.
As I said Koppenberg, why not find a job that suits you better instead of complaining on boards? Plenty of 9-5 jobs out there, but I suppose the 9-5 salary would be a huge cut in pay to a BE driver.0 -
jimmycrackcorm wrote: »Surely you aren't driving for 11 hours and 30 minutes or longer?
My OH is a nurse doing 13 hour shifts. Your clock watching has no comparison to what she has to say about her 13 hours.
Just a question about nurses are they too scared to go on strike or something.
It seems nurses are way too reluctant to go on strike to seek better pay and conditions while transport workers will with less than a moments notice why is that? Maybe its because nursing is a female dominated industry while most transport are male its just a guess not trying to be sexist or anything.0 -
Nurses care about the people who would be affected by their strike action, someone could die as a result. Bus Eireann staff don't give a toss about you or me.Just a question about nurses are they too scared to go on strike or something.
It seems nurses are way too reluctant to go on strike to seek better pay and conditions while transport workers will with less than a moments notice why is that? Maybe its because nursing is a female dominated industry while most transport are male its just a guess not trying to be sexist or anything.0 -
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Nurses care about the people who would be affected by their strike action, someone could die as a result. Bus Eireann staff don't give a toss about you or me.
People don't die when the transport unions end up striking, nurses on the other hand are afraid of people dying because they're striking for better pay and more reasonable hours and the HSE and that exploit them to the fullest because of it. It's disgusting and I wish that would change but sadly not soon enough. As for BE staff not caring thats just a base assumption.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Here a shocking thought, if you hate your job that much then quit and get a 9-5 job. Plenty of people have it much worse than bus drivers, lots doing 12 hour shifts and not coming out with anything close to a BE driver salary.
Oh really would you like to name a few? Or do we have to wait till some overworked driver nod's off from exhaustion while driving and working excessive hours and crashes killing people and perhaps themselves before the people in charge wake the hell up? Because that's what it seem's to take these days so long as they can get away with it.Deleted User wrote: »You can cry and moan all you want on the internet but you won't find much sympathy apart from other drivers. Or, you can stop crying and find a new job. No one is forcing you to drive a bus and that have no life, that is a choice you are making.
There are people who can sympathise on the internet were not ALL salty trolls looking for any excuse to rant at the slighest problem and not deal with it. As for saying not forced to drive and find another job, sure he COULD do that but then be paid nothing for months because welfare dont pay strait out if you quit your job not to mention the money might not be enough to keep a person afloat expecially if they got kids to feed and put through school etc. So easy to put that argument out on the internet but if YOU were in that situation it'd be a different story.Deleted User wrote: »Since the strike BE services have been awful, buses not showing up, busesr arriving over an hour late. Drivers refusing to stop at bus stops full of people, drivers refusing to get off their holes to put out the disable ramp. Saw that happen quite a bit lately as according to a driver "it's not his job". There was also an incident during the past week where a driver in Galway was reported to the guards for pushing a passenger out of a bus and hurting them badly as the driver did not believe that the passengers child had special needs. People see this carry on and it's why they have so little respect for drivers. Respect is earned and BE drivers have done nothing to earn it. When I asked a driver recently why the bus was an hour late, he replied screaming "why don't you **** yourself" followed by "cu*t". I was polite and not aggressive and just curious as to why it was late.
What you say here isn't invalid its obviously not on if someones just being an asshole for the sake of it there's always a few in every place that ruin it for everyone else (I had to work with one in the past I know what's it like). That being said the public aren't exactly angels themselves while the vast majority are a good lot and perfectly reasonable there's always that small minority who will either be extremely difficult, overbearing, unreasonable, thick and downright aggressive self centered arsewipes who can ruin your entire day over a stupid pointless argument. Unfortunately with the way thing's are these days even if you get rid of the worst offenders and the real arsehole's it leave the rest picking up the leftover's and they end up overloaded and overworked. This can also lead to staff who are not normally foul tempered becoming stressed out and mentally drained and prone to losing their temper (and here we have ads from the HSE talking about mental health too over the radio).Deleted User wrote: »Take a look at the BE twitter, its thousands and thousands upon tweets replying to issues people are having. People are fed up of drivers being rude and disrespectful and then crying poor mouth at every chance.
As I said Koppenberg, why not find a job that suits you better instead of complaining on boards? Plenty of 9-5 jobs out there, but I suppose the 9-5 salary would be a huge cut in pay to a BE driver.
From the sound's of things that kopparberg said it sounds like the place is a disfunctional mess atm, I also find it suspicious this all came along shortly after BE's old CEO jumped ship. You can't blame all the staff on the ground for this at the end of the day management are the one's who are responsible as they hold the purse strings and make the decisions.
If there's one thing about the CIE companys that both employee's and people in general hate its the craptacular communication that leaves everyone wondering what's going on.0 -
Oh really would you like to name a few? Or do we have to wait till some overworked driver nod's off from exhaustion while driving and working excessive hours and crashes killing people and perhaps themselves before the people in charge wake the hell up? Because that's what it seem's to take these days so long as they can get away with it.
I used to do 12 hour shifts and I wasn't getting anything near what BE drivers get. Plenty of Doctors and Nurses do shifts as long if not longer than BE drivers.There are people who can sympathise on the internet were not ALL salty trolls looking for any excuse to rant at the slighest problem and not deal with it. As for saying not forced to drive and find another job, sure he COULD do that but then be paid nothing for months because welfare dont pay strait out if you quit your job not to mention the money might not be enough to keep a person afloat expecially if they got kids to feed and put through school etc. So easy to put that argument out on the internet but if YOU were in that situation it'd be a different story.
Why not look for another job while still driving buses? I have been in the situation where I hated my job, where I was doing long shifts and had little time between finishing an 11 hour shift and starting another one. I didn't sit at home behind a keyboard crying in my spare time, what I did was look for a better job. It took a little time and wasn't easy getting away to do job interviews but it was worth it. I could have stayed hating my job but I opted to move on. Why can't BE drivers do the same?What you say here isn't invalid its obviously not on if someones just being an asshole for the sake of it there's always a few in every place that ruin it for everyone else (I had to work with one in the past I know what's it like). That being said the public aren't exactly angels themselves while the vast majority are a good lot and perfectly reasonable there's always that small minority who will either be extremely difficult, overbearing, unreasonable, thick and downright aggressive self centered arsewipes who can ruin your entire day over a stupid pointless argument. Unfortunately with the way thing's are these days even if you get rid of the worst offenders and the real arsehole's it leave the rest picking up the leftover's and they end up overloaded and overworked. This can also lead to staff who are not normally foul tempered becoming stressed out and mentally drained and prone to losing their temper (and here we have ads from the HSE talking about mental health too over the radio).
So what you are saying is that we should excuse disgusting behavior by bus drivers because some people are dicks. The poor pets, they made the choice to take a customer facing job and if they can't handle interacting with customers then they should look for other work. BE drivers have it easy, maybe they do the odd long shift but absenteeism in there is epidemic. BE drivers want to have their cake and eat it, they get paid far more than private drivers and far more than most people working and then complain when they have to do long shifts. Boo Hoo Hoo, no one is forcing anyone to work for BE. If the drivers do not like their jobs then do what everyone else in the same position does and find another job.From the sound's of things that kopparberg said it sounds like the place is a disfunctional mess atm, I also find it suspicious this all came along shortly after BE's old CEO jumped ship. You can't blame all the staff on the ground for this at the end of the day management are the one's who are responsible as they hold the purse strings and make the decisions.
If there's one thing about the CIE companys that both employee's and people in general hate its the craptacular communication that leaves everyone wondering what's going on.
Please, all the drivers are doing is anglging to make life easier for themselves. They can blame everyone they want but and cry online about how awful it is but they have it pretty soft when compared to most. BE drivers have great benefits and salary and if they don't like it then they can leave. No one is forcing Koppenberg or any other driver to drive for BE. Let them find work elsewhere in a place that suits them more.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I used to do 12 hour shifts and I wasn't getting anything near what BE drivers get. Plenty of Doctors and Nurses do shifts as long if not longer than BE drivers.
And are those jobs you talk about safety critical? They're unsafe, dangerous expecially when driving and actually legally unsound. 12 hour shifts on one job stocking shelves or doing office work arent the same as 12 hours on another like driving where mistake's can have fatal consequences.Deleted User wrote: »Why not look for another job while still driving buses? I have been in the situation where I hated my job, where I was doing long shifts and had little time between finishing an 11 hour shift and starting another one. I didn't sit at home behind a keyboard crying in my spare time, what I did was look for a better job. It took a little time and wasn't easy getting away to do job interviews but it was worth it. I could have stayed hating my job but I opted to move on. Why can't BE drivers do the same?
Could be money, could be location as well jobs down the country arent exactly plentiful most are up in the major cities like Dublin and Cork atm. What works for one person doesnt always work for another.Deleted User wrote: »So what you are saying is that we should excuse disgusting behavior by bus drivers because some people are dicks. The poor pets, they made the choice to take a customer facing job and if they can't handle interacting with customers then they should look for other work. BE drivers have it easy, maybe they do the odd long shift but absenteeism in there is epidemic. BE drivers want to have their cake and eat it, they get paid far more than private drivers and far more than most people working and then complain when they have to do long shifts. Boo Hoo Hoo, no one is forcing anyone to work for BE. If the drivers do not like their jobs then do what everyone else in the same position does and find another job.
Shouldnt excuse all of them. Some of the ones you described could be genuine nasty feckers but its not only the public who hate them, staff can hate them too as they drag others down. That being said the public arent perfect and arseholes arent resticted to just one job its univeral across the board.Deleted User wrote: »Please, all the drivers are doing is anglging to make life easier for themselves. They can blame everyone they want but and cry online about how awful it is but they have it pretty soft when compared to most. BE drivers have great benefits and salary and if they don't like it then they can leave. No one is forcing Koppenberg or any other driver to drive for BE. Let them find work elsewhere in a place that suits them more.
Again not everyone can leave a job just like that and even then other jobs pay inferior and leave you worse off. Grass aint greener on the other side you know.0 -
And are those jobs you talk about safety critical? They're unsafe, dangerous expecially when driving and actually legally unsound. 12 hour shifts on one job stocking shelves or doing office work arent the same as 12 hours on another like driving where mistake's can have fatal consequences.
I asked two drivers I know if they do 12 hours shifts, they laughed and said not a chance. They said that there are some drivers who will cover drivers who call in sick resulting in longer shifts.Could be money, could be location as well jobs down the country arent exactly plentiful most are up in the major cities like Dublin and Cork atm. What works for one person doesnt always work for another.
Plenty of jobs around the place and like other non bus drivers, why can BE drivers relocate for work. If a BE driver hates their job and still stays there then they only have themselves to blame.Shouldnt excuse all of them. Some of the ones you described could be genuine nasty feckers but its not only the public who hate them, staff can hate them too as they drag others down. That being said the public arent perfect and arseholes arent resticted to just one job its univeral across the board.
So we let them off because other people in other jobs can be dicks. Drivers knew upon applying for the job that they would have to deal with assholes, they made the choice. If they hate it so much then either leave their job or suck it up.Again not everyone can leave a job just like that and even then other jobs pay inferior and leave you worse off. Grass aint greener on the other side you know.
So what you are saying is that we should have sympathy for drivers because they are so well paid that finding another job that pays close to what they earn is difficult. No one in BE is being forced to work there, the drivers are greatly over paid for what they do and listening to them cry on forums and in the media garners no sympathy for them. No BE driver has to work there, if the place is so bad then leave. It is that simple but as you said not many other jobs offer such an attractive salary for such a low skilled job.0 -
Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »I don't want to go on strike again
I don't want to lose more money, I don't want the place to shut down resulting in thousands of jobs lost and also don't want people to get more pissed off at us
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While I wouldn't be abusive to anyone and don't agree with that, let me try give you a brief sample of some issues from my perspective on why the public can seem pissed off- Youre in an organisation losing money, but demanding more money
- You demand this based on nothing more than time served, no benefit to customer service offered up
- You work for the government, so in Ireland this means you have a 'job for life'. This is an incredible perk and gift that is paid for by taxpayers, however instead of treating it as a very tangible and valuable perk (again, guaranteed using tax money), you abuse it and use it as a tool for being inflexible and greedy. For you there is no downside consequence of being on strike; the company wont fold no matter how inflexible you are. So, you abuse that perk from tax payers
- The government has to subsidise your organisation, by demanding more money from them (for nothing) youre effectively demanding more money from the pockets of people youre putting out with your strike
- Private operators offer better value for money and (in my experience) better customer service. For years state services had a monopoly and offered rubbish services to the country. These new operators have already caught up and surpassed state services. Anecdotally, examples off the top of my head;
-I remember as a child my parents having to wait something like 8 weeks to receive a phone they ordered from Telecom Eireann.
-Driving test wait times were nearly 30 weeks in 2007, after opting to use a private operator wait times had reduced to 9.5 weeks in 2009. the private operator was subsequently discontinued and wait times increased yet again.
-A private operator offered to take up bin collection in Dun Laoighaire Rathdown in 2010, a route the council was losing €3m a year on, and offered to charge customers 20% less than the council price, guarantee no price increase to users and make the route profitable. Union reaction was to call a strike if residents were given the opportunity to use the better service. - Trade unions in this country (because of point 3) have ruined public services. Every single efficiency and improvement in agility and effectiveness of any government ran service is blocked, delayed or demands for more money are made to make the potential benefit not worth it. The HSE is the perfect example of this. Nearly €15B for a service like that, and the reason is unionised staff being inflexible and unresponsive to changing conditions and needs of service users and the state (again, enable by point 3)
While I emphasise I wouldn't be abusive of anyone, if staff are so upset and feel so put upon they should find a job elsewhere. You dislike your management, believe customers are abusive and nasty to you, think youre underpaid, think youre overworked. So find employment elsewhere, if youre worth what you claim you are your employer will improve your terms and conditions to try to prevent you leaving or being poached by another employer. Your problem (and I don't mean just you specifically), is that you are not worth what you are demanding, nobody else will employ you as generous terms and conditions as you have now, simple as.
In my working life, whenever I have wanted a pay rise I had to demonstrate that I added value to warrant it, and have before had to leave an employer because they wouldn't agree to a rate of pay I agreed with, so I found an employer who paid what I wanted. I didn't stomp my feet and whinge and just demand more money because I had been there another 12 months. That's part of the reason I have no sympathy for that carry on.
I hope there's more privatisation of services in this country, I'm actually a left-wing individual on social issues, but until such a point as there is- accountability in use of public funds,
- meritocracy and performance based staff management (getting rid of automatic increments, for example) and
- a complete shift in attitude of publically funded services that mean that the service is ran for the benefit of the public rather than being seen as some bizarre extension of social welfare where the aim is give jobs to people who would otherwise be unemployed,
then I will completely support candidates who advocate privatisation of public services. Apologies if that sounds cold, but its my position formed by personal frustration and experience/understanding of the state of things in this country and publically funded services.0 -
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You put it better than I ever could, Flex.
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Deleted User wrote: »Here a shocking thought, if you hate your job that much then quit and get a 9-5 job. Plenty of people have it much worse than bus drivers, lots doing 12 hour shifts and not coming out with anything close to a BE driver salary.
You can cry and moan all you want on the internet but you won't find much sympathy apart from other drivers. Or, you can stop crying and find a new job. No one is forcing you to drive a bus and that have no life, that is a choice you are making.
Since the strike BE services have been awful, buses not showing up, busesr
arriving over an hour late. Drivers refusing to stop at bus stops full of people, drivers refusing to get off their holes to put out the disable ramp. Saw that happen quite a bit lately as according to a driver "it's not his job". There was also an incident during the past week where a driver in Galway was reported to the guards for pushing a passenger out of a bus and hurting them badly as the driver did not believe that the passengers child had special needs. People see this carry on and it's why they have so little respect for drivers. Respect is earned and BE drivers have done nothing to earn it. When I asked a driver recently why the bus was an hour late, he replied screaming "why don't you **** yourself" followed by "cu*t". I was polite and not aggressive and just curious as to why it was late.
Take a look at the BE twitter, its thousands and thousands upon tweets replying to issues people are having. People are fed up of drivers being rude and disrespectful and then crying poor mouth at every chance.
As I said Koppenberg, why not find a job that suits you better instead of complaining on boards? Plenty of 9-5 jobs out there, but I suppose the 9-5 salary would be a huge cut in pay to a BE driver.
or he can improve the job instead. if the job is improved, it will be a lasting legacy, for which future employees will enjoy. sympathy is nice but ultimately it means nothing, it won't improve his situation. since the strike, a number of staff have apparently taken redundantsy, meaning there are less drivers, which will go a long way to explain why there is now a greater issue with service delivery.
whether be drivers have earned respect or not isn't relevant, it does not justify anything. i have no way of verifying your claims, and twitter will usually bring out the whine over anything brigade. that's not to say there aren't genuine issues, there are and always will be with any company. the dregs who abuse these drivers must be dealt with hard, via being banned from using all public transport services within the state, and being forced to right a letter of apology to all staff working in the public transport industry. it is not the job of the poster to find another job, there aren't plenty of 9 to 5 jobs availible. the salary for a be driver isn't that high, and many 9 to 5 jobs can pay similar.Deleted User wrote: »Why not look for another job while still driving buses? I have been in the situation where I hated my job, where I was doing long shifts and had little time between finishing an 11 hour shift and starting another one. I didn't sit at home behind a keyboard crying in my spare time, what I did was look for a better job. It took a little time and wasn't easy getting away to do job interviews but it was worth it. I could have stayed hating my job but I opted to move on. Why can't BE drivers do the same?
they haven't the time. they are busy driving their busses. what you did isn't relevant, you obviously did have the time to look for other work. the fact that you had such time and were able to find new work does not make you anything special. i would suggest that you are the one crying rather then the bus eireann drivers.Deleted User wrote: »So what you are saying is that we should excuse disgusting behavior by bus drivers because some people are dicks. The poor pets, they made the choice to take a customer facing job and if they can't handle interacting with customers then they should look for other work. BE drivers have it easy, maybe they do the odd long shift but absenteeism in there is epidemic. BE drivers want to have their cake and eat it, they get paid far more than private drivers and far more than most people working and then complain when they have to do long shifts. Boo Hoo Hoo, no one is forcing anyone to work for BE. If the drivers do not like their jobs then do what everyone else in the same position does and find another job.
Please, all the drivers are doing is anglging to make life easier for themselves. They can blame everyone they want but and cry online about how awful it is but they have it pretty soft when compared to most. BE drivers have great benefits and salary and if they don't like it then they can leave. No one is forcing Koppenberg or any other driver to drive for BE. Let them find work elsewhere in a place that suits them more.
elements of the public are way more disgusting then the odd be driver. there is no evidence that absenteeism in bus eireann is epidemic, it's an allegation that so happens to be believed by in my view, anti-ps individuals with an agenda. be drivers don't get paid far more then private drivers, and if they do not like their jobs then they will not do what everyone else doesn't do, and find a new job, instead doing what everyone else actually does, and improve the terms of the job. everyone else does not find another job but improve the terms of their job.Deleted User wrote: »Plenty of jobs around the place and like other non bus drivers, why can BE drivers relocate for work. If a BE driver hates their job and still stays there then they only have themselves to blame.
not plenty of jobs, it's not the job of bus eireann drivers to re-locate for work when they can try and improve the work they are in, making it better for future generations.Deleted User wrote: »So we let them off because other people in other jobs can be dicks. Drivers knew upon applying for the job that they would have to deal with assholes, they made the choice. If they hate it so much then either leave their job or suck it up.
not suck it up or leave the job, but improve the job and challenge those who think it's okay to be abusive toards them.Deleted User wrote: »So what you are saying is that we should have sympathy for drivers because they are so well paid that finding another job that pays close to what they earn is difficult. No one in BE is being forced to work there, the drivers are greatly over paid for what they do and listening to them cry on forums and in the media garners no sympathy for them. No BE driver has to work there, if the place is so bad then leave. It is that simple but as you said not many other jobs offer such an attractive salary for such a low skilled job.
the drivers are not greatly over paid or over paid at all for what they do, they are paid the market rate for the job which in this country will be a good wage, as the cost of living is high and the job not the most attractive job, meaning incentives have to be made to attract staff to the job. listening to them tell the truth will garner sympathy from the reasonable, but i will agree won't from the unreasonable who want everyone but themselves to be on minimum wage with no rights. it is not that simple to leave, no amount of your dismissing will change that reality. they get paid what needs to be paid for a high skilled job.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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While I wouldn't be abusive to anyone and don't agree with that, let me try give you a brief sample of some issues from my perspective on why the public can seem pissed off
Youre in an organisation losing money, but demanding more money
You demand this based on nothing more than time served, no benefit to customer service offered up
You work for the government, so in Ireland this means you have a 'job for life'. This is an incredible perk and gift that is paid for by taxpayers, however instead of treating it as a very tangible and valuable perk (again, guaranteed using tax money), you abuse it and use it as a tool for being inflexible and greedy. For you there is no downside consequence of being on strike; the company wont fold no matter how inflexible you are. So, you abuse that perk from tax payers
The government has to subsidise your organisation, by demanding more money from them (for nothing) youre effectively demanding more money from the pockets of people youre putting out with your strike
Private operators offer better value for money and (in my experience) better customer service. For years state services had a monopoly and offered rubbish services to the country. These new operators have already caught up and surpassed state services. Anecdotally, examples off the top of my head;
-I remember as a child my parents having to wait something like 8 weeks to receive a phone they ordered from Telecom Eireann.
-Driving test wait times were nearly 30 weeks in 2007, after opting to use a private operator wait times had reduced to 9.5 weeks in 2009. the private operator was subsequently discontinued and wait times increased yet again.
-A private operator offered to take up bin collection in Dun Laoighaire Rathdown in 2010, a route the council was losing €3m a year on, and offered to charge customers 20% less than the council price, guarantee no price increase to users and make the route profitable. Union reaction was to call a strike if residents were given the opportunity to use the better service.
Trade unions in this country (because of point 3) have ruined public services. Every single efficiency and improvement in agility and effectiveness of any government ran service is blocked, delayed or demands for more money are made to make the potential benefit not worth it. The HSE is the perfect example of this. Nearly €15B for a service like that, and the reason is unionised staff being inflexible and unresponsive to changing conditions and needs of service users and the state (again, enable by point 3)
While I emphasise I wouldn't be abusive of anyone, if staff are so upset and feel so put upon they should find a job elsewhere. You dislike your management, believe customers are abusive and nasty to you, think youre underpaid, think youre overworked. So find employment elsewhere, if youre worth what you claim you are your employer will improve your terms and conditions to try to prevent you leaving or being poached by another employer. Your problem (and I don't mean just you specifically), is that you are not worth what you are demanding, nobody else will employ you as generous terms and conditions as you have now, simple as.
In my working life, whenever I have wanted a pay rise I had to demonstrate that I added value to warrant it, and have before had to leave an employer because they wouldn't agree to a rate of pay I agreed with, so I found an employer who paid what I wanted. I didn't stomp my feet and whinge and just demand more money because I had been there another 12 months. That's part of the reason I have no sympathy for that carry on.
I hope there's more privatisation of services in this country, I'm actually a left-wing individual on social issues, but until such a point as there is
accountability in use of public funds,
meritocracy and performance based staff management (getting rid of automatic increments, for example) and
a complete shift in attitude of publically funded services that mean that the service is ran for the benefit of the public rather than being seen as some bizarre extension of social welfare where the aim is give jobs to people who would otherwise be unemployed,
then I will completely support candidates who advocate privatisation of public services. Apologies if that sounds cold, but its my position formed by personal frustration and experience/understanding of the state of things in this country and publically funded services.
all of that is inaccurate and just public perception based on agendas, so is ultimately meaningless.
private operators only supposibly offer better value for money on the profitible routes, bus eireann also have profitible routes. it means nothing, we would have to see what would happen if bus eireann no longer existed, i have no doubt prices would go up because the private operators have a captive market. Anecdotally means nothing as again it's only based on perception.
the union had to call the strike over bin collection in Dun Laoighaire Rathdown, as the private operator likely would have had to increase prices eventually, as they have a duty to make a profit. there is no evidence they would have been a better service, because they don't operate the service in the areas they wanted to operate. also, i'd wager that if they are anyway savvy, they only offered to operate the route because they saw a good opportunity to ultimately charge a big price in the long run and make a healthy profit, as is their job. a sensible company if so, and one i'd be investing in if i was the type to be investing in companies.
trade unions have ruined nothing, but been a force for good, it's ideaological dogma, undermining and bad management, that have destroyed public services in this country. privatization of public services won't solve those issues, and would bring greater issues, at greater cost, a cost i myself am not willing to pay.
there is no evidence the bus eireann staff aren't worth what they are looking for, it's just another perception based on an anti-ps worker agenda in my view. what you had to do in your working life isn't relevant to other places of work, it's the culture of your work/work place only. you may think you are special because you did what you did but you really aren't. i would suggest the reason you have no sympathy is because in my opinion, you have a bit of an anti-ps worker agenda.
you cannot be left wing and support privatization. you either support privatization or you don't, you clearly do support it and are using get out clauses to try and get away from admitting that you actually do support it. instead claiming that you are effectively forced into supporting something you know won't work because of some issues which won't be solved by what you support.
if you want more privatization you have to prepare to pay out more as tax payers have a duty to insure private companies running public services make a healthy profit. privatization won't bring accountability. meritocracy already exists in the ps and so does performance based staff management. if management are failing in their duty to enforce the rules that needs to be dealt with but privatization of vital public services won't bring it.I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.
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Deferred again, talks at WRC Monday.0
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end of the road wrote: »or he can improve the job instead. if the job is improved, it will be a lasting legacy, for which future employees will enjoy. sympathy is nice but ultimately it means nothing, it won't improve his situation. since the strike, a number of staff have apparently taken redundantsy, meaning there are less drivers, which will go a long way to explain why there is now a greater issue with service delivery.
whether be drivers have earned respect or not isn't relevant, it does not justify anything. i have no way of verifying your claims, and twitter will usually bring out the whine over anything brigade. that's not to say there aren't genuine issues, there are and always will be with any company. the dregs who abuse these drivers must be dealt with hard, via being banned from using all public transport services within the state, and being forced to right a letter of apology to all staff working in the public transport industry. it is not the job of the poster to find another job, there aren't plenty of 9 to 5 jobs availible. the salary for a be driver isn't that high, and many 9 to 5 jobs can pay similar.
So when BE and others say absenteeism is a big issue you don't believe but when a driver says "oh lots of people took redundancy" you do. I know a couple of bus drivers and they've told me what it is like, how drivers routinely ring in sick and are then sitting in a pub having a few as why not. As for saying twitter brings out the whine about anything brugade, take a look at the people tweeting to BE. It's questions such as "where is my bus" and "why is this bus over an hour late". Genuine questions but then again you have shown yourself to be nothing but a BE union shill.end of the road wrote: »they haven't the time. they are busy driving their busses. what you did isn't relevant, you obviously did have the time to look for other work. the fact that you had such time and were able to find new work does not make you anything special. i would suggest that you are the one crying rather then the bus eireann drivers.
And what about the time drivers have after work? I never said it made me special, just that like others have done when I was in a job with long hours that I did not enjoy. I went and used my free time to look for a better job, I didn't cry on the internet or go on strike like the drivers did earlie this year.end of the road wrote: »elements of the public are way more disgusting then the odd be driver. there is no evidence that absenteeism in bus eireann is epidemic, it's an allegation that so happens to be believed by in my view, anti-ps individuals with an agenda. be drivers don't get paid far more then private drivers, and if they do not like their jobs then they will not do what everyone else doesn't do, and find a new job, instead doing what everyone else actually does, and improve the terms of the job. everyone else does not find another job but improve the terms of their job.
There's also no evidence that so many drivers have taken redundancy that other poor drivers are being forced to work 12 hour days. I asked a few drivers I know and none of them are working 12 hour days but they do find themselves working a little extra to cover colleagues absenteeism. Drivers get paid a considerbale amount more than most, this Irish Times article has some information on it and is from September of last year where drivers were pair an "average of €48,819 while rivals pay between €30,000 and €39,000".
Since the strike the drivers are on more money than that and I ask you to show me a similar low skill job in which you can earn anywhere close to €48,819 a year. Most people who have an issue with their salary leave to find a new job that pays better. If BE drivers were in a private company and carried on the way they have they would all be sacked. In no world should a BE driver be paid almost/over 50k a year.end of the road wrote: »not plenty of jobs, it's not the job of bus eireann drivers to re-locate for work when they can try and improve the work they are in, making it better for future generations.
not suck it up or leave the job, but improve the job and challenge those who think it's okay to be abusive toards them.
It is when they are crying about how awful their jobs are. If they are not happy with the conditions then they are welcome to walk. No one is forcing them to work for BE.
As for abuse, no one deserves it but when you have a group like BE drivers it's hard to have sympathy. I have never seen customer facing employees as agressive, rude and insulting as BE drivers.end of the road wrote: »the drivers are not greatly over paid or over paid at all for what they do, they are paid the market rate for the job which in this country will be a good wage, as the cost of living is high and the job not the most attractive job, meaning incentives have to be made to attract staff to the job. listening to them tell the truth will garner sympathy from the reasonable, but i will agree won't from the unreasonable who want everyone but themselves to be on minimum wage with no rights. it is not that simple to leave, no amount of your dismissing will change that reality. they get paid what needs to be paid for a high skilled job.
They are not paid the market rate as private company bus drivers are paid quite a bit less than BE drivers. In that linked article above it shows that on average BE drivers are paid on average 9-18k more than private drivers and that is from before the drivers went on strike on got a pay increase.
No one has an issue with anyone earning a way and to say that people want them on minimum wage is just you doing your usual whatever the union tells you mentality. Everyone is entitled to a fair wage but when you are working in a company losing money hand over fist and earning considerably more than others in the same job it's not unreasonable to be happy to earn 50k a year. And since when is driving a bus a high skilled job, sure you have peoples lives in your hand but it is not high skill job.They get paid what they get paid because they held the country to ransom and will continue to threaten to do so again and again till they privatise BE and cut the dead weight.
If BE drivers are so highly skilled and good at their jobs why are other companies not trying to get BE drivers to come and work for them? Why are companies like GoBus and City Link not offering BE drivers pay increases and better shifts to tempt them away from the jobs that BE drivers seem to despise. Is it becuase BE drivers are grossly over paid for the job they do and not all that good at it?0 -
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