World Boxing Super Series Thread

Sprinter Sacre · 23-07-2018 4:26pm

Bellew a heavy hitter gimme a break. Bellew is a fat LHW who mangaged to beat a few bums at CW, collect a strap when the belt holder was out injured and managed to beat a crippled out of retirement blown up CW twice at HW. I quite like Bellew and he has his head screwed on about Boxing more than most but what he has achieved in recent years is straight lottery. He's a decent all rounder but he has no stunning attributes which coincides with the fact he's never been near world class level. If Usyk doesn't beat him to an absolute pulp then he might as well retire himself.

blade1 · 23-07-2018 4:32pm

Sprinter Sacre wrote: »

Bellew a heavy hitter gimme a break. Bellew is a fat LHW who mangaged to beat a few bums at CW, collect a strap when the belt holder was out injured and managed to beat a crippled out of retirement blown up CW twice at HW. I quite like Bellew and he has his head screwed on about Boxing more than most but what he has achieved in recent years is straight lottery. He's a decent all rounder but he has no stunning attributes which coincides with the fact he's never been near world class level. If Usyk doesn't beat him to an absolute pulp then he might as well retire himself.

Yep,that's about the size of it.
Thought that would be obvious to everyone.
He has got heart,I'll give him that but that's about it really.

Morrison J · 23-07-2018 5:46pm

Avni Yildirim

I'd have very little worry about Usyk's chin. Medzhidov is a devastating puncher and he went toe to toe with him, also fought Joyce who it's become clear is a very good puncher. Bellew doesn't pose too much threat I don't think. Usyk isn't going to have his chin in the air like Makabu or a one legged Haye.

walshb · 23-07-2018 5:48pm

Rob Brant

Sprinter Sacre wrote: »

Bellew a heavy hitter gimme a break. Bellew is a fat LHW who mangaged to beat a few bums at CW, collect a strap when the belt holder was out injured and managed to beat a crippled out of retirement blown up CW twice at HW. I quite like Bellew and he has his head screwed on about Boxing more than most but what he has achieved in recent years is straight lottery. He's a decent all rounder but he has no stunning attributes which coincides with the fact he's never been near world class level. If Usyk doesn't beat him to an absolute pulp then he might as well retire himself.

Come on...he can punch and he knows how to as well. He is a puncher. Has the mechanics and the delivery. He's not your slick skilled boxer type. More a meaty puncher. If he lands clean and heavy he could do damage to Usyk. He has good decent and heavy hands.....

His amateur pedigree shows a puncher, as does his pro

No issue making Usyk a favorite, but to dismiss Tony as not being capable of getting to Usyk to hurt, or possibly stop/KO him is silly.

Oh, and a prime/mature Bellew should always have campaigned at 200 lbs. He was really struggling to make 175. He's a big enough dude. The guy campaigned at 200 lbs for some amateur bouts... 3 x HW ABA champion on the trot in the noughties. Fat or not he is a big enough man..

walshb · 23-07-2018 5:54pm

Rob Brant

Morrison J wrote: »

I'd have very little worry about Usyk's chin. .

If so then he beats Bellew all night every night at 200 or 200 +

Sprinter Sacre · 23-07-2018 5:56pm

walshb wrote: »

Come on...he can punch and he knows how to as well. He is a puncher. Has the mechanics and the delivery. He's not your slick skilled boxer type. More a meaty puncher. If he lands clean and heavy he could do damage to Usyk. He has good decent and heavy hands.....

No issue making Usyk a favorite, but to dismiss Tony as not being capable of getting to Usyk to hurt, or possibly stop/KO him is silly.

He's not a puncher. He's got a 60% KO rate, padded by the sh*t show against the likes of Haye and a variety of other bums. I give him credit for getting off his ass and flooring Makabu alright and he can land with good technique but that's the limit of it.

There is no evidence to suggest he could make a dent on Usyk at all. Usyk has taken leather from Gassiev, Briedis, Glowacki and Huck, all who I'd register as far bigger punchers than Bellew.

walshb · 23-07-2018 5:59pm

Rob Brant

Sprinter Sacre wrote: »

He's not a puncher. He's got a 60% KO rate, padded by the sh*t show against the likes of Haye and a variety of other bums. I give him credit for getting off his ass and flooring Makabu alright and he can land with good technique but that's the limit of it.

There is no evidence to suggest he could make a dent on Usyk at all. Usyk has taken leather from Gassiev, Briedis, Glowacki and Huck, all who I'd register as far bigger punchers than Bellew.

Come on, did you watch Gassiev. What exact great shots did he land? None were real whoppers. Glancing power shots...

Bellew is a puncher......if describing him you would more likely use that term compared to a boxer/slickster.

I get that there are "degrees" to a puncher. Like Dempsey to Louis to Foreman to Tyson to Lewis etc etc.....not all are equal, but all are punchers.

What actual criteria are you applying here? Just percentage rate?

Sprinter Sacre · 23-07-2018 6:13pm

walshb wrote: »

Come on, did you watch Gassiev. What exact great shots did he land? None were real whoppers. Glancing power shots...

Bellew is a puncher......if describing him you would more likely use that term compared to a boxer/slickster.

I get that there are "degrees" to a puncher. Like Dempsey to Louis to Foreman to Tyson to Lewis etc etc.....not all are equal, but all are punchers.

You don't win three HW ABA titles with some KOs if you are "not a puncher."

What actual criteria are you applying here? Just percentage rate?

He landed one beauty at the end of one round that would have floored quite a few...he landed a few more hooks as well throughout the rounds. But there's enough evidence out there that shows Gassiev battering lads with one punches that Bellew could only dream of. I've said after the fight Gassiev's power was over hyped by everyone including himself and his coach but he still is a huge puncher. Usyk just seems to have very solid whiskers as well as being evasive enough to not get caught too often.

I dunno what I'd call Bellew but it wouldn't be a puncher either. Jack of all trades, master on none...there's no stylistic term for that I feel though. He doesn't do anything great but he doesn't do anything too bad...he is a decent all rounder.

I'd love to see evidence of those fights. Is it likely he's one punching lads or just accumulation of shots and the ref waves it off after the opponent does nothing? I would feel it is the latter more times than not given the way amateur boxing was in those times, the fact British boxing and refs are notorious for that nonsense of waving fights off at the first sign of weakness and guessing hypothetically given he's not like Golovkin or Kovalev type starching lads. If there's a few videos of him as an amateur wrecking HWs then maybe I'll change my mind but I doubt they even exist unfortunately.

Nah KO rate is only one small indicator but it is a decent way of determining how good someone is as a puncher. Now KO rate definitely can be deceptive and pretty useless unless you've seen the fighter a few times but I have seen a lot of Bellew fights given he's British and fairly popular his entire career and he's never been known as a KO puncher until he started fighting cans as CW, stops Makabu and then stops a cripple twice. Is it possible he was so weight drained that he couldn't cling lads? I mean I guess it is but I doubt it tbh...he got in a CW at a time when the division was in a transition period whereas LHW was hotting up and given his age and how he was falling out of relevance it was a clever move that managed to hit the lottery with. As soon as the likes of Usyk, Briedis and Gassiev started to make moves at Cruiser he jumps ship and got the David Haye fight, probably expecting a last payday but somehow managed to find the pot of gold under the leprechaun and beat a crippled man.

walshb · 23-07-2018 6:22pm

Rob Brant

I personally think Usyk could have an excellent chin...

Can't fully say it yet. To date it has been solid...

I just think Tony throws the type of shots that could really test it, and now up at 200 lbs we could be surprised....

I like Usyk, but he has yet to have a real "signature" win.

Sorry, Gassiev is a punchbag. That may sound harsh, but myself and others here never rated him hugely. And the other night he showed his limitations.

How great are/were those in the CW tournament?

I was really most impressed with Usyk and Breidis. The rest? Nothing special at all.

Sprinter Sacre · 23-07-2018 6:37pm

Based off the Lebedev win alone you'd have to give Gassiev a lot of credit. Now Lebdev was what 36/37 when that happened but age is less relevant at these weights and Lebedev was on a good run of smashing through lads. Aside from Usyk, Lebedev might be the best Cruiser since Holyfield considering he was robbed against Huck and got KO'd by Jones who was popped for gear. Realistically his first loss was to Gassiev so even age and wear and tear considered it was a terrific win.

The win against Diablo is only impressive in how devastating the finish was, Diablo was always ordinary tough durable lad who hoped to tire you out and then go to work. Drozd had already given him a boxing lesson, in fact Drozd vs Diablo was quite like Usyk vs Gassiev now that I recall it. Damn shame he got injured and had to retire, lovely fighter to watch although he might have not have lasted against more powerful punchers in the division now.

The win vs. Dorticos was a terrific fight but considering Dorticos is the weirdest Cuban fighter ever in that he stands in front of you, 1-2s you and relies on power and volume far more than skill and precision, Gassiev probably shouldn't have given up as many rounds as he did. He is by no means a punch bag and he should have a fine career at HW too when he does go up there. He's 24 and built like a sh*t house. I think he might need to ditch Abel Sanchez if Sanchez starts giving him fight plans like the other night.

The 4 seeded lads are all quality tbh. CW is one of the strongest divisions in the sport.

walshb · 23-07-2018 8:29pm

Rob Brant

Gassiev is a bit of a punchbag. He gets hit a lot. Is very stiff and cemented. I wasn’t meaning in the sense of “just” a punchbag and nothing else...

Johner · 23-07-2018 10:25pm

I'd expect Usyk to win every round, but it's not out of the question that Bellew lands a KO.

walshb · 23-07-2018 10:33pm

Rob Brant

Johner wrote: »

I'd expect Usyk to win every round, but it's not out of the question that Bellew lands a KO.

But could rds be close competitive? I think they could...

I honestly cannot see the pitter patter style being near as effective against Bellew as it was a stationary there to be hit Gassiev...

Johner · 24-07-2018 10:58am

walshb wrote: »

But could rds be close competitive? I think they could...

I honestly cannot see the pitter patter style being near as effective against Bellew as it was a stationary there to be hit Gassiev...

I just don't see how Bellew could make the rounds competitive. Usyk has his number in nearly every department. Bellews only chance for me is a KO which again I would not rule out. I'd like to see the fight though as I think Bellew would try give it a real go.

boxer.fan · 24-07-2018 3:10pm

I'd rather watch Bellew vs Gassiev tbh, they are at a similar level. Usyk is a class above them both. Breidis - Usyk was the real final, that would be a rematch worth watching. Throw Andre Ward into the mix too.

walshb · 24-07-2018 4:48pm

Rob Brant

boxer.fan wrote: »

I'd rather watch Bellew vs Gassiev tbh, they are at a similar level. Usyk is a class above them both. Breidis - Usyk was the real final, that would be a rematch worth watching. Throw Andre Ward into the mix too.

No matter what, I think Bellew needs to get in the mix. I think his style makes for some great match ups....

Of them all I would pick Breidis more confidently than any at beating Bellew.

Sprinter Sacre · 24-07-2018 5:27pm

I adore Andre Ward as a fighter but he has no business mixing it with the likes of Briedis, Usyk and Gassiev. Ward was a pretty small LHW, he has no business getting into the ring with big CWs who are arguably small Heavyweights. He could do a job against the likes of Bellew, Huck, Glowacki simply because the skill disparity makes up the distance and they aren't that much bigger than him. He'd likely beat the contenders in the division but he'd get butchered by the top 3 lads. Briedis isn't too much taller than him but he's far too strong and big for Ward who himself is very strong. I think Ward might push for a fight with Shumenov who somehow has the regular WBA belt at Cruiser after coming out of retirement.

walshb · 25-07-2018 9:53am

Rob Brant

I think Ward would handle Gassiev. Too slick, fast, neat and all around too much versatility. Gassiev would only have a KO shot....that is it...

Usyk would be Ward's issue due to height and reach and movement and range....

Breidis would offer power and strength, but Ward, if he can handle this or offset it should win via decision...

They are bigger, but not much much bigger...plus, Kovalev hits quite hard and can deliver too, and Ward handled him.

Not a big Ward fan, but I know one thing,. he knows how to handle himself in the ring......and a few extra lbs and an inch or two in height isn't going to necessarily steamroll him.

I think in this scenario weight, as in lbs extra is being overstated.....Ward is of similar height, slick, awkward, fit as a fiddle, with great defense and movement....It's not like he is going to walk in and stand toes to toe all night, where extra size and weight could well be an advantage...

My man, Toney would be a prime example of a fighter who didn't give a fook about weigh and size. In he went and did his thing against naturally bigger men.

Ward is not Toney, but he has some similar traits as regards his natural ring intelligence.

Dick phelan · 25-07-2018 3:27pm

Avni Yildirim

walshb wrote: »

I personally think Usyk could have an excellent chin...

Can't fully say it yet. To date it has been solid...

I just think Tony throws the type of shots that could really test it, and now up at 200 lbs we could be surprised....

I like Usyk, but he has yet to have a real "signature" win.

Sorry, Gassiev is a punchbag. That may sound harsh, but myself and others here never rated him hugely. And the other night he showed his limitations.

How great are/were those in the CW tournament?

I was really most impressed with Usyk and Breidis. The rest? Nothing special at all.

I would consider become undisputed champion and beating virtually every top fighter in your division pretty significant, Gassiev is certainly no punchbag nor is Bredis, Usyk is just a really special fighter. Bellew is being overhyped majorly, he beat a crippled shell of Haye twice, credit to him for sparking Makabu but he was put on his arse in that one and Makabu isn't near the level of Usyk. Bellew is a dangerous fighter but i'd expect Usyk to outbox him pretty wide. Usyk is a top 5 p4p fighter imo.

Dick phelan · 25-07-2018 3:28pm

Avni Yildirim

Out of interest how do you rate Crawford? Was also undisputed champion but if you actually look at his record it doesn't compare to Usyks imo. Gamboa and Horn his best win an neither were really elite fighters especially with Gamboa being at the weight it was.

Sprinter Sacre · 25-07-2018 3:43pm

To be fair Usyk has a much better resume than Golovkin and Crawford combined imo. I have no idea why Golovkin is considered P4P #1. Besides retaining his belt for a long time he's done very little. His best win is against Jacobs whom nearly everyone felt was going to get starched but is now somehow an elite MW in people's minds just because he went 12 and wasn't a million miles away from winning. The Canelo fight is obviously a weird one but the more times I watch it the closer the fight looks to me, I always maintained a draw wasn't a horrific result, just the individual cards were terrible.

The rest of his resume is full of bums or fringe world level fighters and then the likes of Kell Brook who jumped two weights. Crawford's resume isn't much better either. The fact he has won titles in several weight classes and being undisputed bumps him a bit more. Lomachenko has a decent resume, but until the Linares win his best win was probably Gary Russell Jr. who fights once a year at that. And Linares had been stopped before and struggled with much lesser guys than Lomachenko. His willingness to fight anyone plus his jumping through the weight classes definitely helps his case.

Usyk's resume trumps all 3 imo, and becoming undisputed in such a stacked division and beating all around him stands up to Lomachenko's 3 weight wins, Golovkin's long reign and Crawford's achievements. I really wouldn't argue too much if anyone had him as #1 P4P. Besides establishing himself as a PPV star, which none of the other 3 have either really, he has done very little less or if it all compared to those 3. Sor Rungvisai is probably the only guy who could say he has bigger names on his resume with Gonzalez x2 and Estrada being huge wins.

walshb · 25-07-2018 3:44pm

Rob Brant

Dick phelan wrote: »

Out of interest how do you rate Crawford? Was also undisputed champion but if you actually look at his record it doesn't compare to Usyks imo. Gamboa and Horn his best win an neither were really elite fighters especially with Gamboa being at the weight it was.

Crawford is "quality," but his problem is that he has no actual signature win against an elite top level respected opponent.

Until he mixes it with Spence/Thurman/Garcia, or even Porter then I will reserve real judgment.

normanoffside · 25-07-2018 5:01pm

Avni Yildirim

Finally got a reply from sky box office and they are flat out refusing a refund even though I sent picture of the ‘no signal’ screen from Saturday night.

I dont care how good the event is in the future, I won’t be purchasing from them again.

walshb · 25-07-2018 5:15pm

Rob Brant

normanoffside wrote: »

Finally got a reply from sky box office and they are flat out refusing a refund even though I sent picture of the ‘no signal’ screen from Saturday night.

I dont care how good the event is in the future, I won’t be purchasing from them again.

Sky?

It's ITV that should refund, no?

normanoffside · 25-07-2018 5:54pm

Avni Yildirim

walshb wrote: »

Sky?

It's ITV that should refund, no?

Sorry I meant ITV box office. They fobbed me off by saying it was a sky issue.

mada82 · 25-07-2018 8:28pm

normanoffside wrote: »

Sorry I meant ITV box office. They fobbed me off by saying it was a sky issue.

Kick up a fuss. I wouldn’t let that go. Maybe call sky and threaten to leave if it comes down to it.

normanoffside · 25-07-2018 8:54pm

Avni Yildirim

mada82 wrote: »

Kick up a fuss. I wouldn’t let that go. Maybe call sky and threaten to leave if it comes down to it.

Haha I have already done that years ago :pac:, I am on a half price package.

In all seriousness this is definitely an ITV Box Ofiice issue, I paid them and not Sky. Their Box Office channel is notoriously dodgy.

walshb · 26-07-2018 11:27am

Rob Brant

normanoffside wrote: »

Haha I have already done that years ago :pac:, I am on a half price package.

In all seriousness this is definitely an ITV Box Ofiice issue, I paid them and not Sky. Their Box Office channel is notoriously dodgy.

Have you gone onto their twitter to complain? If not, do so and keep complaining....

I mean, it's only a poxy 12 Euro. The pr1cks should refund you here......

Diddley Squat · 28-07-2018 3:36am

Sprinter Sacre wrote: »

...... CW is one of the strongest divisions in the sport.

Yes I love cruiser weight especially.
... because it is the heaviest weight where fighter has to make a cut.

In heavyweight theres no limit , so ..... cruiser weight is brilliant viewing

nacho libre · 30-07-2018 3:28am

Avni Yildirim

Morrison J wrote: »

Where's the logic there though? Gassiev fought within himself so not to get knocked out. Usyk was winning every round easy behind the jab so had zero need to look for the KO. Means very little that Usyk didn't stop him. If Gassiev didn't respect Usyk's power and walked through him I'd get it but he obviously felt Usyk's punches. Never seen Gassiev so gun shy.

I believe if he had the power to trouble heavyweights, given he was landing so many clean punches, he'd have got the stoppage regardless of how gun shy Gassiev was. It's not just this fight i am basing it on, i've seen nothing in his previous fights to suggest he can ko big heavyweights or even deter them coming forward. At the higher weight he will not be as quick, so i don't see him out boxing the likes of Joshua for 12 rounds. I think he will be caught and won't be able to take it.

World Boxing Super Series Thread

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