dublin half marathon debacle

Hannibal_Smith

sideswipe wrote: »

One of the best things about Saturday has been the comments on social media- my favourite so far was 'why can't these stupid events be held at night when it won't affect the public'.

The best one I read was something like...when I run I run alone...I don't understand those who have to pay money to pin a number to their top and run in a herd... :pac:

Pawwed Rig

Greybottle wrote: »

but there were loads of people who could have taken the train who decided to take the car instead.

Would all of these people have fitted on the single 3 carriage train that headed north that morning jammed with runners?

average_runner

Van.Bosch wrote: »

100% agree with price increase with a real city centre route. Considering the south side nature of the DCM a route starting in the city and heading out via clontarf or Marino or Drumcondra and back into town would work.

The RnR gets a lot of criticism as it's a for profit event but they manage to make a city centre race work for about 6 or 7 miles with the rest in the PP. I'd like to see something similar for the race series. You even use the PP as a staging area?

Clontarf too open to the wind as is the RnR.
Like to keep it out of the park and put a fast course around the city instead.

marzabar

Got my offer of a free race in next year's series after emailing with my "observations" of what went wrong. The traffic in and water were my biggest issues but also walking the 3/4km back to my abandoned car on the dual carriageway felt quite dangerous on the way out!

I also received confirmation of what happened with the water stops!

"As you can see from our site, we had planned 4 water stations and one Lucozade stations.
The water and Lucozade trucks got diverted due to the traffic and when they arrived on site we realised the quantities we had ordered had not been delivered.
At that stage it was too late to get more water to the venue"

Hopefully next year will be better anyway!

hot buttered scones

average_runner wrote: »

Clontarf too open to the wind as is the RnR.
Like to keep it out of the park and put a fast course around the city instead.

My guess is if they were able to get the road closures for a city race they'd surely have done so by now. But because I like messing around with maps - You could start in Fairview Park, then down to the Point, along the North Quays as far as Chapelizod, then back along the South Quays to Fairview Park. Or, same start down to the point, but then where the canal meets the river head all the way round the North Circular, cross at Islandbridge and follow the canal all the way to Samuel Beckett bridge and back up past the Point to Fairview Park to finish.

Birdie Num Num

Rashers72 wrote: »

Just a thought. Why not charge an extra EUR5 and include free train from Dublin city calling at normal suburban stations from city, and also in from Drogheda. Plenty of empty trains sitting around on Saturday morning and afternoon. Each suburban train can hold approx. 1.500 passengers so 5 trains run 10 mins apart would have made a huge difference. Station is a couple of minutes walk from Newbridge House. God knows Irish Rail could do with a positive story, so win win. Or am I missing something?

Now there's a thought! I have always wondered why this never seems to be an obvious solution in many cases. It's happened in other big cities in other countries, your Olympic ticket also gets you onto the train for example at some games. Throughout the GAA Championship, throughout the summer and every year, Drumcondra station gates have to be left open because of the crowds. I don't believe the GAA pays a supplement to Irish Rail, maybe they do but at any rate 1,000s I guess travel free! You'd think the Minister for sport who also happens to be the Minister for transport would have his finger on the pulse here.

In terms of a location for staging a race, it's not quite that simple in terms of picking a venue. It's not actually just down to choosing the most favourable and the most obvious best choice. That would be easy. There are many other factors that are out of the control of event organisers and many organisations that will want their say.

rooneyjm

I feel Irish people have become a shower of soft moaners. It was badly planned, granted, but the Tsunami of whinging is too much.
People will not get a train because they want to sit in their nice warm car, have a coffee, rock up 10min before the start. Since when are two bottles of water and refreshments at the end not enough for a half marathon. People pretending they were at deaths door in 17 degrees, I mean fcuk off.
People on FB giving out about a lack of jax roll, own your own sh1t, literally.
"I didn't get a banana", really how terrible, stop bitching and have an apple.

Chivito550

Rashers72 wrote: »

Just a thought. Why not charge an extra EUR5 and include free train from Dublin city calling at normal suburban stations from city, and also in from Drogheda. Plenty of empty trains sitting around on Saturday morning and afternoon. Each suburban train can hold approx. 1.500 passengers so 5 trains run 10 mins apart would have made a huge difference. Station is a couple of minutes walk from Newbridge House. God knows Irish Rail could do with a positive story, so win win. Or am I missing something?

This is Ireland. People would still choose to drive. You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Only proper metro, light rail or frequent heavy rail (S-Bahn type stuff) will get people out of their cars. Crappy diesel trains that go every 45 mins wont.

Chivito550

robinph wrote: »

When you hold a big event on the outskirts of a city you are always going to have problems with people getting there and the main option for the majority of people will be to drive. Public transport systems are designed to get people from the suburbs into the centre, not from suburbs on one side to the other. Wouldn't really make a lot of difference having more trains from the centre as most people don't live there.

Disagree with this. If a system is properly integrated then you've no problem getting to anywhere from anywhere. It's like that on the continent. London likewise. Sure in Moscow they have a circle line that goes around the outskirts of the city so you don't even have to go near the city centre. This "An Lár-ism" we have in Dublin is not standard practice in cities that know what they are doing.

robinph

Chivito550 wrote: »

robinph wrote: »

When you hold a big event on the outskirts of a city you are always going to have problems with people getting there and the main option for the majority of people will be to drive. Public transport systems are designed to get people from the suburbs into the centre, not from suburbs on one side to the other. Wouldn't really make a lot of difference having more trains from the centre as most people don't live there.

Disagree with this. If a system is properly integrated then you've no problem getting to anywhere from anywhere. It's like that on the continent. London likewise. Sure in Moscow they have a circle line that goes around the outskirts of the city so you don't even have to go near the city centre. This "An Lár-ism" we have in Dublin is not standard practice in cities that know what they are doing.

You can't really compare Dublin to London though, other than they both happen to be capital cities. It's also taken 100+ years for London to get the system it has, and it's still not got a whole lot connected to the south of the Thames. Dublin only started building tram lines 15 years or so ago and has a long way to go, it's also only a tiny fraction of the size.

crisco10

Greybottle wrote: »

T



Try this: https://www.google.ie/maps/dir/53.3491353,-6.2991666/53.3435818,-6.2848504/53.3429413,-6.2722271/53.3375604,-6.2651031/53.3396231,-6.2521641/53.3432103,-6.2589448/53.3524458,-6.2612836/53.3493263,-6.2698538/53.3526492,-6.3006733/53.3561266,-6.3159753/@53.356882,-6.3117978,13.5z/data=!4m42!4m41!1m0!1m0!1m0!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d-6.257405!2d53.3363643!3s0x48670e98c1c9c41f:0xa92f2999b790e655!1m0!1m0!1m0!1m15!3m4!1m2!1d-6.276875!2d53.3477544!3s0x48670c2ed0842d4f:0xcd097d1f25b8549f!3m4!1m2!1d-6.2781907!2d53.3496714!3s0x48670c2e9f3455ab:0xd7138abb4126299c!3m4!1m2!1d-6.2896591!2d53.3495801!3s0x48670c33fcd99dd9:0x8c0c6ef1633d8684!1m10!3m4!1m2!1d-6.3037383!2d53.3569276!3s0x48670db4f0a44245:0x2038c59f60755eeb!3m4!1m2!1d-6.3116575!2d53.3609062!3s0x48670dae3bb2f0bd:0x256d40d8b28f934b!1m0!3e2

Covers most of the major sights and parks in the city. Start and finish in the Phoenix Park, so plenty of space for parking and after race events.

Starting at 9.00 the last walkers would clear O'Connell Bridge/Abbey St. within an hour and 15 minutes, so little disruption to Luas lines and Bus traffic. Run it on a Sunday like the 1916-2016 5 KM run last year and it could be a big success.

DCC and other groups could use it as a campaign over the summer months to get fit to do it. 21.2 Km is a very reachable target for everybody. It could become a mass event like the Womens Mini Marathon.

Nice idea, but that route is 13.1 KM on my google maps!

average_runner

hot buttered scones wrote: »

My guess is if they were able to get the road closures for a city race they'd surely have done so by now. But because I like messing around with maps - You could start in Fairview Park, then down to the Point, along the North Quays as far as Chapelizod, then back along the South Quays to Fairview Park. Or, same start down to the point, but then where the canal meets the river head all the way round the North Circular, cross at Islandbridge and follow the canal all the way to Samuel Beckett bridge and back up past the Point to Fairview Park to finish.

If we can close the roads for paddy's day, close the roads for 5k races in the city, close the roads for Ironman and the marathon we can do it for the half marathon

average_runner

rooneyjm wrote: »

I feel Irish people have become a shower of soft moaners. It was badly planned, granted, but the Tsunami of whinging is too much.
People will not get a train because they want to sit in their nice warm car, have a coffee, rock up 10min before the start. Since when are two bottles of water and refreshments at the end not enough for a half marathon. People pretending they were at deaths door in 17 degrees, I mean fcuk off.
People on FB giving out about a lack of jax roll, own your own sh1t, literally.
"I didn't get a banana", really how terrible, stop bitching and have an apple.

Considering the train is not near most people and that there is only one train which is 3 carriages in length, I don't think it was an option!!!

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

This is Ireland. People would still choose to drive. You can bring a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

Only proper metro, light rail or frequent heavy rail (S-Bahn type stuff) will get people out of their cars. Crappy diesel trains that go every 45 mins wont.

Problem is we don't have the population to keep Irish Rail running, I doubt we have the population for a a full metro system. At the moment the luas is slower than the bus on the red line alot of the times!

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Disagree with this. If a system is properly integrated then you've no problem getting to anywhere from anywhere. It's like that on the continent. London likewise. Sure in Moscow they have a circle line that goes around the outskirts of the city so you don't even have to go near the city centre. This "An Lár-ism" we have in Dublin is not standard practice in cities that know what they are doing.

The reason why we are so messed up is that we put civil servants in the government who don't have a clue. Teachers can take time off to come a TD for Fcuk sake and keep their other job so there is no gamble here.

That's going off topic and I am sorry.

Djoucer

What's with the calls for higher entry fees? Madness. Nothing to say the problems were caused by lack of money.

I remember when rock n roll first came along, people were shocked by the cost. And now we have people suggest it's the model to follow?

Wait and see what actually happened before hitting people in ther wallets to run around their own city.

Chivito550

robinph wrote: »

You can't really compare Dublin to London though, other than they both happen to be capital cities. It's also taken 100+ years for London to get the system it has, and it's still not got a whole lot connected to the south of the Thames. Dublin only started building tram lines 15 years or so ago and has a long way to go, it's also only a tiny fraction of the size.

Dublin had one of the most extensive tram networks in the world at the turn of the 20th century!! Idiot politicians removed the tracks!

Anyway, Oslo, Stockholm, Copenhagen, Nuremberg, Amsterdam, Brussels are all cities that are comparable with Dublin in terms of size and their transport systems are hugely extensive and integrated. So your excuses for our utter rubbish transport systems do not wash with me good sir.

average_runner

Djoucer wrote: »

What's with the calls for higher entry fees? Madness. Nothing to say the problems were caused by lack of money.

I remember when rock n roll first came along, people were shocked by the cost. And now we have people suggest it's the model to follow?

Wait and see what actually happened before hitting people in ther wallets to run around their own city.

People are saying they would pay the extra cost for a class race around the city, a proper city race.

RnR was class the first year, its now just a mickey mouse race that earns cash.

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

Problem is we don't have the population to keep Irish Rail running, I doubt we have the population for a a full metro system. At the moment the luas is slower than the bus on the red line alot of the times!

Posts like this is why we are in the dark ages. Look at Oslo. Same size population. 6 metro lines, 6 tram lines, and 5-6 commuter train lines, all integrated. So sick of Irish people using our size as an excuse and just accepting any auld sh1te. Are we that clueless about how public transport works on the continent?

dublin runner

Djoucer wrote:

I remember when rock n roll first came along, people were shocked by the cost. And now we have people suggest it's the model to follow?

Where did I say to follow the RnR model? Perhaps read my post again before boiling my argument down to that assertion.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Posts like this is why we are in the dark ages. Look at Oslo. Same size population. 6 metro lines, 6 tram lines, and 5-6 commuter train lines, all integrated. So sick of Irish people using our size as an excuse and just accepting any auld sh1te. Are we that clueless about how public transport works on the continent?

Is Oslo as spread out as Dublin though? You could have a good point but we make an arse of everything here, education, transport, health!!

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

Is Oslo as spread out as Dublin though? You could have a good point but we make an arse of everything here, education, transport, health!!

It's a pure myth that Dublin is a low density city. Oslo has 3,300 per sq kilometre for the metropolitan area. Dublin is slightly more.

Great comparison with Amsterdam here:

http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/03/is-dublin-a-low-density-city/

No, this density lark is another false claim used to try justify terrible infrastructure.

Your last point is more in line with why we don't have nice things. We couldn't organise a fart in a curry eating contest.

TFBubendorfer

average_runner wrote: »

Is Oslo as spread out as Dublin though? You could have a good point but we make an arse of everything here, education, transport, health!!

Oslo's area is bigger than Dublin's. Another example is Vienna, not much bigger than Dublin but 5 underground lines and more buses and trams than I can count.

Dublin's size is an absolute shocker of an excuse. It reminds me of the argument that went on for years that Ireland was too small to have motorways. Same excuse, same utter nonsense.

Sorry - getting carried away and totally off-topic. When you've lived in a different place for long enough you tend to get fed up with the lack of infrastructure in Ireland as well as the stupid excuses that come with it.

The Muppet

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Sorry - getting carried away and totally off-topic. When you've lived in a different place for long enough you tend to get fed up with the lack of infrastructure in Ireland as well as the stupid excuses that come with it.

True , I ran the great north run in Newcastle this year, 56000 entrants and I had no delay driving to the finish line on the morning , parking, getting a shuttle bus back to the start and then exiting the car park after the race.

Chivito550

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Oslo's area is bigger than Dublin's. Another example is Vienna, not much bigger than Dublin but 5 underground lines and more buses and trams than I can count.

Dublin's size is an absolute shocker of an excuse. It reminds me of the argument that went on for years that Ireland was too small to have motorways. Same excuse, same utter nonsense.

Sorry - getting carried away and totally off-topic. When you've lived in a different place for long enough you tend to get fed up with the lack of infrastructure in Ireland as well as the stupid excuses that come with it.

Definitely not off topic. Dreadful public transport and car dependency of the Irish people was a big cause for this shambolic half marathon.

As far as I'm concerned the more disasters like the Dublin Half Marathon the better. It might wake up the Irish people as to the importance of investment in infrastructure, and we might see some change. Frankly we are a third world country in terms of transport infrastructure.

I really think a lot of Irish people don't really understand how bad we have it. We just seem to accept what we have as if it is normal. We also have clowns who drive into the city centre in single occupied cars, who live near commuter train lines, yet moan about the traffic, as if the city centre roads should be reserved for them only.

It's only when you live abroad that you really get how bad we have it. Moving home from Melbourne, the hardest adjustment I had to make was going from 28 trams lines and 15 train lines to Dublin Bus. No question about it.

average_runner

The Muppet wrote: »

True , I ran the great north run in Newcastle this year, 56000 entrants and I had no delay driving to the finish line on the morning , parking, getting a shuttle bus back to the start and then exiting the car park after the race.

Because we have the Phoenix Park here, the council always takes the easy route and put everything in there. We never use the city to it's max to promote it, except for the marathon.

zulutango

I suppose this thread has gone off topic but at the same time the points regarding infrastructure are relevant to the debacle at the weekend. I've turned down jobs in Dublin repeatedly simply because the infrastructure is so poor and getting around so difficult, and hence quality of life is not great as a result. When I did live there, I loved to run in the Phoenix Park. It was the real saving grace for our capital city, from my point of view at least. What a wonderful amenity Dublin has so near the centre, especially for runners, but it's not used particularly well because it's so hard for most of the population to get there. It beggars belief.

Chivito550

zulutango wrote: »

I suppose this thread has gone off topic but at the same time the points regarding infrastructure are relevant to the debacle at the weekend. I've turned down jobs in Dublin repeatedly simply because the infrastructure is so poor and getting around so difficult, and hence quality of life is not great as a result. When I did live there, I loved to run in the Phoenix Park. It was the real saving grace for our capital city, from my point of view at least. What a wonderful amenity Dublin has so near the centre, especially for runners, but it's not used particularly well because it's so hard for most of the population to get there. It beggars belief.

Sure look where the National Sports Centre is located. You'd need councilling after trying to make your way out there by public transport!

SeeMoreBut

The county council have to get behind these races to have them in the city which I don't believe they are.

DCM should be finishing on O'Connell street not Merrion Square. It is have the race but cause the least amount of hassle.

Dublin Half should be in the city and on the fastest possible route.

Nothing to add which hasn't been said already about Saturday.

Birdie Num Num

Chivito550 wrote: »

Sure look where the National Sports Centre is located. You'd need councilling after trying to make your way out there by public transport!

Actually as the crow flys it's less than a km from a train station to the XC course. I have ran it but the problem is an access gate. A lot of potential here. We are lacking in infrastructure correct, it's improving but the main issue is getting people to opt for public transport. I think a lot of people are quite blind to how convenient it is in many instances. The other issue is those responsible for delivering the services don't see the potential, don't care or are incapable of joining the dots.