NFL Disrespect.

lawred2

DickSwiveller wrote: »

But it's not a disturbingly large amount. You've no idea what you're talking about. Do yout hink these people who were killed were all angels?

you be trollin yo

Boom_Bap

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Where you present at the incidents?

No, but I've seen the cam footage of some, such as Rolando Castille sitting in the passenger seat of his car and the cop started unloading.

Or the 13 year old kid playing and the cop rallies up and opens fire.

Michael Brown being killed by cops walking down the street unarmed.
Eric Garner being choked out by cops whilst telling them he cant breathe.

Billy86

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I've no idea. What?

I think it was Jelle1880 pointed out a good video detailing exactly what, 'disrespecting the anthem/flag' is just a convenient excuse to hide behind as the booing continued for the Cowboys who made their point beforehand and then stood for the anthem.

DickSwiveller

Boom_Bap wrote: »

No, but I've seen the cam footage of some, such as Rolando Castille sitting in the passenger seat of his car and the cop started unloading.

Or the 13 year old kid playing and the cop rallies up and opens fire.

Michael Brown being killed by cops walking down the street unarmed.
Eric Garner being choked out by cops whilst telling them he cant breathe.

Have you read anything about these cases? They are far from black and white.

DickSwiveller

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I note not no one has responded to the previous posters point about black on black crime.

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I've no idea. What?

DickSwiveller wrote: »

But it's not a disturbingly large amount. You've no idea what you're talking about. Do yout hink these people who were killed were all angels?

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Where you present at the incidents?

Ah lads, come on, we all know what motivates this poster. Why engage?

Is there really going to be a point where he says "I got it all wrong, there are legitimate concerns about the way the police force treats black people", or you think he's just gonna keep on coming back with a "no you prove it" approach?

Boom_Bap

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Have you read anything about these cases? They are far from black and white.

Yes...but none deserved to be shot and killed. Crux. Matter.

tomwaterford

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Have you read anything about these cases? They are far from black and white.

A picture tells a thousand words?

If there's footage of it happening...what needs to be read

Penn

Boom_Bap wrote: »

No, but I've seen the cam footage of some, such as Rolando Castille sitting in the passenger seat of his car and the cop started unloading.

Or the 13 year old kid playing and the cop rallies up and opens fire.

Michael Brown being killed by cops walking down the street unarmed.
Eric Garner being choked out by cops whilst telling them he cant breathe.

Or Charles Kinsey, a black care worker with his hands up trying to calm down his autistic patient, shot and then left handcuffed on the ground without medical assistance for 20 minutes (survived). When the cop was asked why he shot at him, replied "I don't know"

Or the black guy in the recent video who was pulled over by a cop for failing to indicate on a turn. Cop approached his car with his gun drawn. Gun drawn... for not indicating properly...

ohnonotgmail

Penn wrote: »

Or Charles Kinsey, a black care worker with his hands up trying to calm down his autistic patient, shot and then left handcuffed on the ground without medical assistance for 20 minutes (survived). When the cop was asked why he shot at him, replied "I don't know"

Or the black guy in the recent video who was pulled over by a cop for failing to indicate on a turn. Cop approached his car with his gun drawn. Gun drawn... for not indicating properly...

hard to believe that nearly 40 years later this is still relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teSPN8sVbFU

seamus

Penn wrote: »

Or Charles Kinsey
...
Or the black guy...

I would be all too easy to say "rah rah rah", "cops are all racists", etc.

In reality this is the culmination of years of a vicious cycle. Where citizens are (or are potentially) armed, so every encounter with a cop potentially becomes a conflict. So you get into a cycle.

It's a trickle at first; a kid down the street has been killed by a cop, so the local community become a little more cautious and distrusting of cops, so the next time they're stopped by a cop, it's just that little bit more tense.

This goes on for decades, it spreads out across the country. And the vicious cycle goes on and on. Cops are more jittery, so people get more jittery around cops, so cops get more jittery...

And naturally this tension will be at its worst in high-crime communities, which are disproportionately black.

Compare it to being stopped by a cop in Ireland. OK, a person may not like it, but if I get pulled over or stopped at a checkpoint, I'm not worried that I'm about to be dragged out of my car and tazed. And the cop who stopped me won't be worrying that I'm going to pull out a pistol and blow his brains out for daring to stop me.

It's not a racist issue, not really. It's an issue of the US becoming an authoritarian police state which doesn't respect any of its citizens, except those who can afford to buy it. It just so happens that black people are more likely to be unable to buy that respect.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

It's not a racist issue, not really. It's an issue of the US becoming an authoritarian police state which doesn't respect any of its citizens, except those who can afford to buy it. It just so happens that black people are more likely to be unable to buy that respect.

If white people get more respect...isn't that a racist issue?

Zubeneschamali

seamus wrote: »

It's not a racist issue, not really. It's an issue of the US becoming an authoritarian police state which doesn't respect any of its citizens, except those who can afford to buy it. It just so happens that black people are more likely to be unable to buy that respect.

So it's not a racist issue, it's just that the police treat black people like sh!t.

I see.

castletownman

I think it's hard for Americans not to be so I don't know.....obsessed with the flag when it's presence is so overpowering at every sporting event.

I mean before this year's US Open (and every one), military personnel carried out and unfurled an oversized flag that blanketed the tennis court, there was of course a military "fly-over" and for the presentation ceremony loads of people were stood in the background holding flags. Wimbledon is the most prestigious tennis tournament in the world, and yet it gets more flak for it's traditions.

Look at most other countries too. The national anthem is usually reserved for the biggest sporting occasions of the year. Important GAA games here (they don't even play our proper one for away six nations matches ), FA Cup final in England. World Cups obviously. But yet the "patriotism" isn't as brash and in your face.

Americans are indoctrinated to have an almost fanatical respect for their flag. Heck, they say the pledge every day before the start of school. The flag-code speaks volumes of the importance the country likes to convey. It's really no different to the brainwashing the people of North Korea are subjected to on a daily basis. So I can see why so many people would be up in arms over perceived lack of respect. But it does nothing only skirt over the wider issue. Which is dangerous.

DickSwiveller

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah lads, come on, we all know what motivates this poster. Why engage?

Is there really going to be a point where he says "I got it all wrong, there are legitimate concerns about the way the police force treats black people", or you think he's just gonna keep on coming back with a "no you prove it" approach?

Sorry, I just suffered a sanctimony overload reading your post. I'll have to log off for a few hours to recover.

pjohnson

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Sorry, I just suffered a sanctimony overload reading your post. I'll have to log off for a few hours to recover.

Farewell then Dick

DickSwiveller

pjohnson wrote: »

Farewell then Dick

Don't worry. I'm back.

tomwaterford

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Don't worry. I'm back.

Your few hours lasted 31 mins :pac:

pjohnson

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Don't worry. I'm back.

I think your watch is broken.

DickSwiveller

tomwaterford wrote: »

Your few hours lasted 31 mins :pac:

I should be ok once Mr Sanctimonious, Conor74, stays away.

Banned.

tomwaterford

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I should be ok once Mr Sanctimonious, Conor74, stays away.

Safe space >>>>>>>





Sorry :pac:
Knock yaself out saaaaaannnn

Skylinehead

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I should be ok once Mr Sanctimonious, Conor74, stays away.

Behave.

DickSwiveller

Skylinehead wrote: »

Behave.

I was joking. It's hardly that offensive.

Billy86

tomwaterford wrote: »

Your few hours lasted 31 mins :pac:

Alternative fac timelines

JRant

Billy86 wrote: »

I think it was Jelle1880 pointed out a good video detailing exactly what, 'disrespecting the anthem/flag' is just a convenient excuse to hide behind as the booing continued for the Cowboys who made their point beforehand and then stood for the anthem.

That video is terrible to be honest. The sanctamonious tone in his voice and claiming racism at the end without a single fact to back it up.

There's nothing convenient about the reasons for the booing. The fans are letting the teams know that they don't like what's happening, which they are completely entitled to do.

Only one side is bringing race into it and it's not the fans.

Yeah_Right

JRant wrote: »

Only one side is bringing race into it and it's not the fans.

You are correct. The players are bringing race into the "discussion" by peacefully protesting against racism. The fans are simply booing the players for peacefully protesting against racism.

Obviously that doesn't make the fans racist. They just don't like people who protest against racism. So they are against those who are against racism. But they're not racist :rolleyes: just ignorant.

JRant

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You are correct. The players are bringing race into the "discussion" by peacefully protesting against racism. The fans are simply booing the players for peacefully protesting against racism.

Obviously that doesn't make the fans racist. They just don't like people who protest against racism. So they are against those who are against racism. But they're not racist :rolleyes: just ignorant.

What an incredibly simplictic view. The players are using the anthem to stage their protest and the fans are letting them know that they don't want the anthem used in such a manner and are protesting in their own peaceful way.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that this is a racist response.

Christy42

JRant wrote: »

What an incredibly simplictic view. The players are using the anthem to stage their protest and the fans are letting them know that they don't want the anthem used in such a manner and are protesting in their own peaceful way.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that this is a racist response.

Except those who did not still got booed and criticised so it is not the anthem.

Billy86

JRant wrote: »

What an incredibly simplictic view. The players are using the anthem to stage their protest and the fans are letting them know that they don't want the anthem used in such a manner and are protesting in their own peaceful way.

There is absolutely nothing to indicate that this is a racist response.

This doesn't explain why the Dallas Cowboys, every single one of whom stood for the anthem, were booed relentlessly for kneeling before it was on?

Outlaw Pete

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhborYfWsY

JRant

Billy86 wrote: »

This doesn't explain why the Dallas Cowboys, every single one of whom stood for the anthem, were booed relentlessly for kneeling before it was on?

Of course it does, jeez it's not that hard to grasp. The crowd booed when they kneeled and stopped when they stood up.

The fans are letting their views be known, so are the players.

Christy42

JRant wrote: »

Of course it does, jeez it's not that hard to grasp. The crowd booed when they kneeled and stopped when they stood up.

The fans are letting their views be known, so are the players.

Are people not allowed kneel in general anymore? What was their issue with the Cowboys protest. I mean I get it is their right to protest against it but why?

Yeah_Right

JRant wrote: »

Of course it does, jeez it's not that hard to grasp. The crowd booed when they kneeled and stopped when they stood up.

The fans are letting their views be known, so are the players.

Were the fans views that they don't like kneeling or that they don't like what the kneeling represents?

I now await the obvious response of "I don't know. I don't speak for them."

Billy86

JRant wrote: »

Of course it does, jeez it's not that hard to grasp. The crowd booed when they kneeled and stopped when they stood up.

The fans are letting their views be known, so are the players.

And they stood up a full 50 seconds before the anthem even started, meaning the boos were not about the anthem.

So since it had nothing to do with the anthem, what were they booing the Cowboys about?

Zubeneschamali

Billy86 wrote: »

So since it had nothing to do with the anthem, what were they booing the Cowboys about?

"Boo-urns!"

BillyBobBS

Only found out that Kaepernick thought it was a good idea wearing socks depicting police as pigs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/49ers/2016/09/01/police-reaction-colin-kaepernick-pig-socks-san-francisco/89715672/

What an absolute lowlife.

givyjoe

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Only found out that Kaepernick thought it was a good idea wearing socks depicting police as pigs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/49ers/2016/09/01/police-reaction-colin-kaepernick-pig-socks-san-francisco/89715672/

What an absolute lowlife.

Once a billybob, always a billybob:rolleyes:

kunst nugget

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Only found out that Kaepernick thought it was a good idea wearing socks depicting police as pigs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/49ers/2016/09/01/police-reaction-colin-kaepernick-pig-socks-san-francisco/89715672/

What an absolute lowlife.

Kaepernick said on Thursday: “I wore these socks, in the past, because the rogue cops that are allowed to hold positions in police departments, not only put the community in danger, but also put the cops that have the right intentions in danger by creating an environment of tension and mistrust. I have two uncles and friends who are police officers and work to protect and serve all people. So before these socks, which were worn before I took my public stance, are used to distract from the real issues, I wanted to address this immediately.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/01/colin-kaepernick-pig-socks-police-protest

I’ve known Kaepernick as a friend for some time now, and I can see how his intentions surrounding the protest are being ignored.

Kaepernick used lucid language to articulate his mission when he said: “This [protest] is not something that I am going to run by anybody. I am not looking for approval. I have to stand up for people that are oppressed. If they take football away, my endorsements from me, I know that I stood up for what is right.”

This reminds me of something Franz Fanon poignantly wrote in The Wretched of The Earth, his groundbreaking text on race and colonialism: “Each generation must discover its mission, fulfill it or betray it, in relative opacity.” Colin doesn’t just want to fulfill his mission. He has made his mind up to never betray it.

When Donald Trump was busy threatening to cut the budget for Meals on Wheels, a program that provides meals to older impoverished Americans, Colin Kaepernick was donating $50,000 to their program.

As Trump was signing an executive order to push forward the intensely disputed Dakota Access pipeline, Kaepernick was donating another $50,000 to desperately needed health clinics at Standing Rock.

When Trump was talking about repealing the Deferred Action of Child Arrivals policy, which protected migrants who came to America as children, Kaepernick was donating $25,000 to United We Dream, the largest immigrant youth-led organization in the nation.

During Trump’s tirade about the un-patriotic nature of Kaepernick’s taking a knee, he forgets that Kaepernick donated $25,000 towards paying rent for US veterans facing eviction, and providing employment training programs for people who served in military uniform.

We need to eliminate the noise. We need to listen to what Colin Kaepernick is saying, pay attention to what he is actually doing, and why.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/27/colin-kaepernick-protest-nfl-take-a-knee

Jelle1880

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhborYfWsY

What a dumb video.

See, I can do that too :pac:

He's just another one mouthing off about things he can't explain. Not a single one of these people can clearly explain how exactly the flag is being disrespected.
Also, there's a hell of a lot of (not just black) NFL players who do good in their community so him pretending that they're helping nobody is bull****.

To add to that: It never seems to be 'the right time' for black people to protest. When can they actually protest without some idiots saying 'Now's not the time' ?
Or maybe they should just not do it at all ? Trevor Noah's piece on it was a bit over the top, but he's right: There will always be some idiot complaining about black people protesting.

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Only found out that Kaepernick thought it was a good idea wearing socks depicting police as pigs.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/49ers/2016/09/01/police-reaction-colin-kaepernick-pig-socks-san-francisco/89715672/

What an absolute lowlife.

lolz at your signature.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/26/steelers-player-who-alone-stood-for-national-anthem-insists-it-was-an-accident

wes

How is the outrage over the flag different from political correctness? Surely, all the right wingers, should be screaming about PC gone made, right ?

Its there time to shine, and they **** it up.

Also, now the right are moaning about socks. PC gone made I tells ya!

baylah17

"All that is required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing"

I am glad that good men and women are standing against the evil of racism and growing tyranny under the Trump administration by making a silent peaceful protest that takes back their flag and anthem from those who abuse it for their own means.

Samaris

wes wrote: »

How is the outrage over the flag different from political correctness? Surely, all the right wingers, should be screaming about PC gone made, right ?

Its there time to shine, and they **** it up.

Also, now the right are moaning about socks. PC gone made I tells ya!

The far-right have been hypocritical on that point ever since they started going on about snowflakes and cucks. I don't think they got the irony when, for instance, Trump complained about gotcha questions and demanded nicer treatment in the debates. The piss was thoroughly taken out of it, but they really didn't care. I suspect a lot of that was the trolls (who were grand with it since they didn't have a true stance on it) and it was picked up by the ignorant (who didn't care enough to actually follow what was going on, but parroted the overwhelming consensus) and it's the general idea floating around now, despite the amazing hypocrisy of it.

I'm sure there are plenty of right-wing people who always saw the hypocrisy of it, although maybe hated to admit it for fear of giving the mocking "left" a weapon (it is hard to admit that one's "side" is wrong to the other side while they're in full flow), but I think relatively few of them are actually pro-Trumping over it all now.

I have respect for Kaepernick, and I'd have respect for what he was doing even if I didn't agree with him (I lean towards sympathy with the cause, from a foreigner's perspective), simply because he's doing it quietly and respectfully and people hate him for it.

wes

Samaris wrote: »

I have respect for Kaepernick, and I'd have respect for what he was doing even if I didn't agree with him (I lean towards sympathy with the cause, from a foreigner's perspective), simply because he's doing it quietly and respectfully and people hate him for it.

That is one thing that sticks out to me. The protest is about as quiet and respectful as you could get, and sheer level of bull**** from the right on this is astonishing. Its pretty clear, that no matter how respectful the whole thing is, there will be same reaction.

Outlaw Pete

Jelle1880 wrote: »

What a dumb video.

See, I can do that too :pac:

Only difference is, when I said it, I backed it up by citing the content of what you posted and explained just WHY it was dumb.

He's just another one mouthing off about things he can't explain.

A soldier is just a mouth now?? Fcuking hell.

Not a single one of these people can clearly explain how exactly the flag is being disrespected.

Well now there is proof that you didn't even watch the video as he specifically talks about how and why the flag (and the anthem) are being disrespected.

Nettle Soup

Is it fair to say that all Americans are stupid?

Jelle1880

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

A soldier is just a mouth now?? Fcuking hell.

Why wouldn't he be ? Do you think soldiers are smarter than your average person or that their word means more ?

What about the vets who have come out in support of the protest ? The wrong kind of soldier I assume ?

Well now there is proof that you didn't even watch the video as he specifically talks about how and why the flag (and the anthem) are being disrespected.

No he doesn't. Not a single thing what he said proves why the flag is being disrespected, he didn't name one reason. Only that he feels that that's what happened, which unfortunately for him isn't actually enough.
He's trying to make it out that they're using the flag to protest, but they're not doing that at all. The only people who are dragging the flag into it are people who are claiming they are disrespecting it, in some pathetic attempt to make these guys look un-patriotic or whatever. The fact you yourself still can't specify what disrespect is shown is proof enough that you're just shouting without knowing what you're on about.

It's been shown countless times in this thread that the players/staff/owner/... in Dallas for example didn't do anything wrong during the anthem, they went out of their way to show their protest before it was played, after which they stood and did that silly hand on heart thing that the Yanks are so fond of.

Do I need to post those guidelines for the US flag again, so you can go over every single one of them to see which one those players broke ? Or am I right in saying that it's all about the fact people think it's being disrespected, and therefore they see it as fact ?

Nettle Soup

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Why wouldn't he be ? Do you think soldiers are smarter than your average person or that their word means more ?

What about the vets who have come out in support of the protest ? The wrong kind of soldier I assume ?

Absolutely agree 100%.

The adoration many Americans have for "men who serve their country" is bloody ridiculous. It doesn't make them any better than people that don't join the armed forces. It does not make them "more" American either.

Billy86

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well now there is proof that you didn't even watch the video as he specifically talks about how and why the flag (and the anthem) are being disrespected.

I haven't got around to watching it yet but plan to later - does he cover how standing for the anthem is disrespecting it?

The_Kew_Tour

Its as peaceful a Protest as you will get.

No fighting on the street. Just people coming together and standing on what they believe.

Its a very welcome change and while im behind it, even if I wasnt, its the way it should be.

Its African Americans leading the way in how to behave. Us Europeans could learn a thing or two.

Christy42

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its as peaceful a Protest as you will get.

No fighting on the street. Just people coming together and standing on what they believe.

Its a very welcome change and while im behind it, even if I wasnt, its the way it should be.

Its African Americans leading the way in how to behave. Us Europeans could learn a thing or two.

Did not even require big police escorts (that were not there already) or block up any more traffic!

mattser

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Its as peaceful a Protest as you will get.

No fighting on the street. Just people coming together and standing on what they believe.

Its a very welcome change and while im behind it, even if I wasnt, its the way it should be.

Its African Americans leading the way in how to behave. Us Europeans could learn a thing or two.

Thanks, but as a European I'll make my own mind up. I don't need lecturing from any group in how I behave.