NFL Disrespect.

Christy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Two Dallas Cowboy players gave black power salute during anthem last game but looks like that won't be tolerated from now on.........


https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/917568245854605313

Kinda depends on whether a big name goes for it. Many fans will be all for these punishments until they realise their stars won't be on the field.

As to the other poster, feel free to start a protest about white people mistreated by police in the states. I am unsure as to the relevance to this thread though.

Mitch Connor

cfuserkildare wrote: »

How come there is NO public outcry for all the White people killed by police in USA?
Is it only Newsworthy if the victim is Black?

What? Are you serious?

Its not newsworthy if the victim is black. thats a big part of the problem. What is newsworthy is the black community reaction to society shrugging their shoulders when police kill another black person.

VinLieger

cfuserkildare wrote: »

How come there is NO public outcry for all the White people killed by police in USA?
Is it only Newsworthy if the victim is Black?

Aww didums are you feeling marginalised?

cfuserkildare

Jeez, but you are sooo great at jumping on the Band-Wagon ain't you-all.
Remember where was the largest Slave Market in Europe, if not the whole world??

DUBLIN!!

Sonics2k

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Jeez, but you are sooo great at jumping on the Band-Wagon ain't you-all.
Remember where was the largest Slave Market in Europe, if not the whole world??

DUBLIN!!

cfuserkildare

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Remember where was the largest Slave Market in Europe, if not the whole world??

DUBLIN!!

Can't say I remember it, but will ask my older siblings to see if they can.

cfuserkildare

My point was, it only gets broadcast when the Media are having a " Slow News Period "
For example, figures from 2015:-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Link as limited access at the moment.

WinnyThePoo

cfuserkildare wrote: »

My point was, it only gets broadcast when the Media are having a " Slow News Period "
For example, figures from 2015:-

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Link as limited access at the moment.

You've made no point.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Jeez, but you are sooo great at jumping on the Band-Wagon ain't you-all.
Remember where was the largest Slave Market in Europe, if not the whole world??

DUBLIN!!

People who want to deflate the terrible legacy of slavery in the Americas always like to point to other instances of slavery in history, as though they have the same impact on today's society. They obviously don't, there isn't a group of people in Western Europe whose lives are directly impacted by the legacy of slavery like those of black people in the Americas.

cfuserkildare

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

You've made no point.

Actually, the whole comment about "Slow News Period"
kinda is a point.
There were almost twice as many White People shot in 2015 as there were Black People!!!

Yet somehow the Media forgot to mention any of these Official Figures.

How come??

RustyNut

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

The sort of Americans who voted for this lot wouldn't be able to find the rest of the world on a map, let alone care what they think.

Let's not forget it was a minority of those who voted that voted for trump.

elefant

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

People who want to deflate the terrible legacy of slavery in the Americas always like to point to other instances of slavery in history, as though they have the same impact on today's society. They obviously don't, there isn't a group of people in Western Europe whose lives are directly impacted by the legacy of slavery like those of black people in the Americas.

Sorry, but I think we've seen irrefutable evidence above that Irish people's subjugation by the vikings is directly equivalent to the plight of black Americans in the past 200 years. They should just get on with it like we did.

Saruhashi

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Actually, the whole comment about "Slow News Period"
kinda is a point.
There were almost twice as many White People shot in 2015 as there were Black People!!!

Yet somehow the Media forgot to mention any of these Official Figures.

How come??

How many of those white and black people shot were men and how many were women?

It just seems to me like 90+% of victims of police violence are male but men only make up approx 50% of the population.

So we have some seriously disproportionate police violence going on there.

Nobody really seems to mention it.

Saruhashi

Mitch Connor wrote: »

What? Are you serious?

Its not newsworthy if the victim is black. thats a big part of the problem. What is newsworthy is the black community reaction to society shrugging their shoulders when police kill another black person.

I'd say that the American reaction to violence in general is just one big collective shrug.

Unless they can use acts of violence as an excuse to go to war, of course.

Realistically the starting point should be that police officers killing civilians in the streets is absolutely unacceptable.

Instead it's a weird situation where we can ignore people being killed by police as long as the police are killing proportionately to demographics.

The main argument I always hear is that the police kill disproportionate numbers of black people. This is such an awful way of looking the the whole situation.

When it's presented this way the problem isn't that the police are killing citizens. The problem is that the police are either killing too many of one type of citizen or not killing enough of another type.

If the cops were just killing people proportionately then they all seem like they'd be fine with that.

Trump and Pence are especially out of order here. The NFL players are protesting, peacefully, about an actual problem that should not exist. These clowns choose to attack the players instead. Why?

The right thing to do here is for the President to come out and say it's unacceptable for police to be killing citizens and he will allocate resources to solving the problem. Then maybe he loses his supporter base though because everyone sees it as a race issue for some reason.

America is so utterly obsessed with race that most don't seem to give a crap if the police are killing people of some other race so long as they aren't killing too many of "our" race. Then there's the real racist types who think the cops should be killing more of "them". A complete mess.

Then you have people, INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT, who fall somewhere between dismissive and outright angry that NFL players are protesting police violence. Madness.

How many people do the Garda kill annually?

They need to get back to a basic belief that the police should not really be killing anyone, of any race, unless there is some kind of extreme circumstances.

cfuserkildare

In an ideal world, the police should not need to be armed,
However, with US constitutional amendments they have no option.

Personally I would prefer to see major funding going into Non-Lethal alternatives.

givyjoe

cfuserkildare wrote: »

In an ideal world, the police should not need to be armed,
However, with US constitutional amendments they have no option.

Personally I would prefer to see major funding going into Non-Lethal alternatives.

The 'sick stick' as see in Minority Report gets my vote

VinLieger

givyjoe wrote: »

The 'sick stick' as see in Minority Report gets my vote

I have an idea for something similar called the brown bat, smelly but effective

Overheal

kunst nugget wrote: »

Pence is the true expression of the rise of the Far Right in America, not Trump. I wouldn't call him a nit wit in way, shape or form. My real fear is that Trump gets ousted and Pence takes over.

Pence is only 58. He will be running for POTUS again.

MrPudding

Copper_pipe wrote: »

https://twitter.com/vp/status/917074120084516865


Flies to game. Sees players kneeling and leaves. Trip cost approximately 250k USD.

Trump says he asked him to do it

Apparently he would never have been staying for the game anyway, as he had a meeting on the other side of the country and his plane needed to leave well before the game was due to finish.

Not sure of the exact timings, but it seems like a bit of a sad effort.

MrP

kunst nugget

Overheal wrote: »

Pence is only 58. He will be running for POTUS again.

And so begins the Handmaid's Tale…

Pherekydes

Overheal wrote: »

Pence is only 58. He will be running for POTUS again.

Does he not need a higher IQ?

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

MrPudding wrote: »

Apparently he would never have been staying for the game anyway, as he had a meeting on the other side of the country and his plane needed to leave well before the game was due to finish.

Not sure of the exact timings, but it seems like a bit of a sad effort.

MrP

He knew he could do that, because he knew the 49ers would kneel. They always do.

What a snowflake, going around looking for things to be offended by. How will these baby boomers ever survive in the real world, away from their safe spaces?

Copper_pipe

ESPN obtained following letter that Roger Goodell sent to NFL teams within past 30 minutes:

To: Chief Executives/ Club Presidents
From: Commissioner Goodell
Date: October 10, 2017
Re: Fall Meeting/National Anthem

We live in a country that can feel very divided. Sports, and especially the NFL, brings people together and lets them set aside those divisions, at least for a few hours. The current dispute over the National Anthem is threatening to erode the unifying power of our game, and is now dividing us, and our players, from many fans across the country.

I’m very proud of our players and owners who have done the hard work over the past year to listen, understand and attempt to address the underlying issues within their communities. At our September committee meetings, we heard directly from several players about why these issues are so important to them and how we can support their work. And last week, we met with the leadership of the NFLPA and more players to advance the dialogue.

Like many of our fans, we believe that everyone should stand for the National Anthem. It is an important moment in our game. We want to honor our flag and our country, and our fans expect that of us. We also care deeply about our players and respect their opinions and concerns about critical social issues. The controversy over the Anthem is a barrier to having honest conversations and making real progress on the underlying issues. We need to move past this controversy, and we want to do that together with our players.

Building on many discussions with clubs and players, we have worked to develop a plan that we will review with you at next week’s League meeting. This would include such elements as an in-season platform to promote the work of our players on these core issues, and that will help to promote positive change in our country. We want to ensure that any work at the League level is consistent with the work that each club is doing in its own community, and that we dedicate a platform that can enable these initiatives to succeed. Additionally, we will continue the unprecedented dialogue with our players.

I expect and look forward to a full and open discussion of these issues when we meet next week in New York. Everyone involved in the game needs to come together on a path forward to continue to be a force for good within our communities, protect the game, and preserve our relationship with fans throughout the country. The NFL is at its best when we ourselves are unified. In that spirit, let’s resolve that next week we will meet this challenge in a unified and positive way.

RustyNut

Why don't they just play Irelands call instead. Job done.

Christy42

Copper_pipe wrote: »

ESPN obtained following letter that Roger Goodell sent to NFL teams within past 30 minutes:

To: Chief Executives/ Club Presidents
From: Commissioner Goodell
Date: October 10, 2017
Re: Fall Meeting/National Anthem

We live in a country that can feel very divided. Sports, and especially the NFL, brings people together and lets them set aside those divisions, at least for a few hours. The current dispute over the National Anthem is threatening to erode the unifying power of our game, and is now dividing us, and our players, from many fans across the country.

I’m very proud of our players and owners who have done the hard work over the past year to listen, understand and attempt to address the underlying issues within their communities. At our September committee meetings, we heard directly from several players about why these issues are so important to them and how we can support their work. And last week, we met with the leadership of the NFLPA and more players to advance the dialogue.

Like many of our fans, we believe that everyone should stand for the National Anthem. It is an important moment in our game. We want to honor our flag and our country, and our fans expect that of us. We also care deeply about our players and respect their opinions and concerns about critical social issues. The controversy over the Anthem is a barrier to having honest conversations and making real progress on the underlying issues. We need to move past this controversy, and we want to do that together with our players.

Building on many discussions with clubs and players, we have worked to develop a plan that we will review with you at next week’s League meeting. This would include such elements as an in-season platform to promote the work of our players on these core issues, and that will help to promote positive change in our country. We want to ensure that any work at the League level is consistent with the work that each club is doing in its own community, and that we dedicate a platform that can enable these initiatives to succeed. Additionally, we will continue the unprecedented dialogue with our players.

I expect and look forward to a full and open discussion of these issues when we meet next week in New York. Everyone involved in the game needs to come together on a path forward to continue to be a force for good within our communities, protect the game, and preserve our relationship with fans throughout the country. The NFL is at its best when we ourselves are unified. In that spirit, let’s resolve that next week we will meet this challenge in a unified and positive way.

Tldr: We appreciate your input as players but please shut the hell up and only focus on social issues everyone agrees on.

Billy86

A high school student got suspended for sitting during the anthem in class (that whole practice in schools is so ****ing creepy). She's taking them to court, and she's going to win, good for her.

Stolen off reddit but this comment was brilliant - "the school are going to lose but maybe Mike Pence can fly to this school and walk out during math class or something to show his support."

Outlaw Pete

Christy42 wrote: »

As to the other poster, feel free to start a protest about white people mistreated by police in the states. I am unsure as to the relevance to this thread though.

You can't be serious.

The point is that protests against Police shootings should NOT be segregated by the colour of the victims. It's ridiculous. I have asked for proof and none has been forthcoming. It's disgusting that a section of American society is saying that something needs to be done about their race being shot by Police when the statistics show us time and again that other races are shot much more. The number are perfectly in proportion with gun crime stats.

When the Dallas Cowboys wanted to wear badge on their helmets as a mark of respect to five Police officers who were murdered at a Black Lives Matter protest, they were refused. So it would be a slap in the face for these people if players were allowed to protest the American Anthem in the name of BLM, or any other cause really.

Amazing how we hear so little about those killings. Just cops, I suppose and when Sheriff Clarke was disgusted at Obama's reaction and the media's reaction and voiced his disgust, he was basically called an Uncle Tom by influential members of the black community, like Spike Lee:

https://twitter.com/spikelee/status/755354346213085184

Christy42

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You can't be serious.

The point is that protests against Police shootings should NOT be segregated by the colour of the victims. It's ridiculous. I have asked for proof and none has been forthcoming. It's disgusting that a section of American society is saying that something needs to be done about their race being shot by Police when the statistics show us time and again that other races are shot much more. The number are perfectly in proportion with gun crime stats.

When the Dallas Cowboys wanted to wear badge on their helmets as a mark of respect to five Police officers who were murdered at a Black Lives Matter protest, they were refused. So it would be a slap in the face for these people if players were allowed to protest the American Anthem in the name of BLM, or any other cause really.

Amazing how we hear so little about those killings. Just cops, I suppose and when Sheriff Clarke was disgusted at Obama's reaction and the media's reaction and voiced his disgust, he was basically called an Uncle Tom by influential members of the black community, like Spike Lee:

https://twitter.com/spikelee/status/755354346213085184

Are other races shot much more? I am pretty sure statistics show just the opposite actually. You make several statistics claims without backing them up in fact.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/08/the-counted-police-killings-2016-young-black-men

If the Cowboys want to show respect for some cops killed they can do that without changing their uniform.

I also remember those killings being all over the place at the time so am unsure what you are on about there.

Billy86

How can a protest about what they believe to be systemic racism in the police against black people not point to issues like the rate at which the police kill black people specifically? "I believe the police are racist against black people, here are the figures at which they kill all people and not black people alone to completely prove nothing to do with my point".

cfuserkildare

Again, the fact that Black victims do Not account for the highest amount of deaths caused by fatal shooting by a Police Officer,
More Native Americans killed than Blacks.

I suppose that Native Americans are less News worthy than Black People!?!?!?

Billy86

cfuserkildare wrote: »

Again, the fact that Black victims do Not account for the highest amount of deaths caused by fatal shooting by a Police Officer,
More Native Americans killed than Blacks.

I suppose that Native Americans are less News worthy than Black People!?!?!?

How many Native Americans were killed by police in the last 10-20 years?

Saruhashi

Billy86 wrote: »

How can a protest about what they believe to be systemic racism in the police against black people not point to issues like the rate at which the police kill black people specifically? "I believe the police are racist against black people, here are the figures at which they kill all people and not black people alone to completely prove nothing to do with my point".

The problem for me is that when you say "they are killing black people disproportionately" you are accepting that it's OK for the police to kill some black people so long as they don't kill too many.

It's such a bizarre way of thinking. We accept that the cops kill people of all races but we think they kill too many from a certain race. It follows then that we are fine with them killing some POC but just that they shouldn't kill too many.

Of course, point out that 90%+ of people shot by police are male despite men only being approx 50% of the population and you'll be met with silence.

So you now take on the burden of figuring out which deaths were the acceptable ones and which ones were not. So that you only protest police violence that you have decreed unjustified.

It could, it should, be a real simple argument. US cops should never be killing civilians. So maybe they should fund research into non-fatal methods of dealing with situations? Maybe the President could say "the number of deaths by cop in this nation is unacceptable, we need to get these numbers down". Nope. Can't do that. This is America. It has to be about race.

What about the number of police killed in the process of doing their job?
63 killed by gunfire, 1 killed by stabbing, 13 killed by vehicular assault in 2016.

That is really messed up if you think about it.

963 civillians killed by police in 2016. 963.
466 White. 233 Black. 160 Hispanic. 42 Other. 62 Unknown.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

963 deaths in a single year is TOTALLY unacceptable. They are killing at least 2 people per day. That's madness.

Instead there is a typically American need to inject race into the conversation.

So it's not a case that cops are needlessly killing civilians but a case that cops are killing too many of "us" and/or not killing enough of "them".

That's the crazy part for me. They accept that the police sometimes just need to end someones life. They don't accept that the police end lives disproportionately with respect to the demographics of the nation.

So police killed 963 people in 2016. 24.2% of those people were black.
In the USA black people make up only 12.6% of the population.

So you are saying to me that if the police must kill 963 people in one year then there's no race issue so long as only 121 of those killed are black?

Those first 121 deaths are acceptable to you but the other, disproportionate, 112 are not?

(PS: I support the NFL players protest and think Trump/Pence are out of order to criticize a peaceful protest on a very serious issue. I just don't like the fact that the "disproportionate rates of killing" approach is used)

Saruhashi

Billy86 wrote: »

How many Native Americans were killed by police in the last 10-20 years?

Looks like they make up 0.8% of the population but make up 2.2% of people killed by police. (21 of 963 in 2016).

So based on demographics we would expect to see 8 native american deaths per 1,000 police killings.
Instead we are seeing 22 per thousand.

For African Americans you would expect 126 victims per 1,000 police killings.
Instead we are seeing 242 per thousand.

Native Americans are killed at a rate 275% higher than would be expected, based on demographics.

African Americans are killed at a rate 192% higher than would be expected, based on demographics.

So, if we are insisting on making this about race, it would appear that Native Americans have it worst of all in relation to police killings.

(PS: I support the NFL players protest and think Trump/Pence are out of order to criticize a peaceful protest on a very serious issue. I just don't like the fact that the "disproportionate rates of killing" approach is used)

Christy42

Saruhashi wrote: »

The problem for me is that when you say "they are killing black people disproportionately" you are accepting that it's OK for the police to kill some black people so long as they don't kill too many.

It's such a bizarre way of thinking. We accept that the cops kill people of all races but we think they kill too many from a certain race. It follows then that we are fine with them killing some POC but just that they shouldn't kill too many.

Of course, point out that 90%+ of people shot by police are male despite men only being approx 50% of the population and you'll be met with silence.

So you now take on the burden of figuring out which deaths were the acceptable ones and which ones were not. So that you only protest police violence that you have decreed unjustified.

It could, it should, be a real simple argument. US cops should never be killing civilians. So maybe they should fund research into non-fatal methods of dealing with situations? Maybe the President could say "the number of deaths by cop in this nation is unacceptable, we need to get these numbers down". Nope. Can't do that. This is America. It has to be about race.

What about the number of police killed in the process of doing their job?
63 killed by gunfire, 1 killed by stabbing, 13 killed by vehicular assault in 2016.

That is really messed up if you think about it.

963 civillians killed by police in 2016. 963.
466 White. 233 Black. 160 Hispanic. 42 Other. 62 Unknown.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/

963 deaths in a single year is TOTALLY unacceptable. They are killing at least 2 people per day. That's madness.

Instead there is a typically American need to inject race into the conversation.

So it's not a case that cops are needlessly killing civilians but a case that cops are killing too many of "us" and/or not killing enough of "them".

That's the crazy part for me. They accept that the police sometimes just need to end someones life. They don't accept that the police end lives disproportionately with respect to the demographics of the nation.

So police killed 963 people in 2016. 24.2% of those people were black.
In the USA black people make up only 12.6% of the population.

So you are saying to me that if the police must kill 963 people in one year then there's no race issue so long as only 121 of those killed are black?

Those first 121 deaths are acceptable to you but the other, disproportionate, 112 are not?

(PS: I support the NFL players protest and think Trump/Pence are out of order to criticize a peaceful protest on a very serious issue. I just don't like the fact that the "disproportionate rates of killing" approach is used)

The proportion thing is largely to point out the differences in how the police treats different races. It is not saying the first 100 deaths are cool. I see what you are getting at though.

Saruhashi

Christy42 wrote: »

The proportion thing is largely to point out the differences in how the police treats different races. It is not saying the first 100 deaths are cool. I see what you are getting at though.

There is no doubt at all that racism runs very deep in American society.

On top of that, some communities seem like they are practically at war with the police so I can honestly see what other people are getting at too.

I'm sure gun control would help but that's a whole other can of worms!

Sweetemotion

Christy42 wrote: »

The proportion thing is largely to point out the differences in how the police treats different races. It is not saying the first 100 deaths are cool. I see what you are getting at though.

How about this for a proportion. 9 out of 10 murdered blacks are killed by other blacks, if proportion is largely to point out a difference why not address that?

Christy42

Sweetemotion wrote: »

How about this for a proportion. 9 out of 10 murdered blacks are killed by other blacks, if proportion is largely to point out a difference why not address that?

Does this mean the police have not been mistreating people?

Yes there is more than one issue that needs dealing with in this world. No one said otherwise. I believe this protest was about the issues with policing which is why it is being discussed here. There are 101 other social issued that that protest was also not addressing which does not lesson the protest.

Saruhashi

Sweetemotion wrote: »

How about this for a proportion. 9 out of 10 murdered blacks are killed by other blacks, if proportion is largely to point out a difference why not address that?

This isn't a fair way to see things either. The reason they are killing each other is not because they are black. Race is not the motivation behind the action.

People of all races are out there murdering each other over all kinds of stuff. If someone is murdered they will most likely be murdered by someone of the same race (probably someone they know).

Addressing that would again just come down to saying there is way too much killing going on across the nation. No need to bring race into that at all.

If the central issue is gang violence then work needs to be done to help those communities and keep the next generation away from gangs. That can be done in communities of any race, or any mix of races.

In the case of America the fact that a lot of African-Americans are living in poor and dangerous communities is a major problem that needs to be addressed. You can't go ahead and blame them by pointing out that "blacks are killing other blacks". Forget about their race and start focusing on improving their communities.

Maybe that's where the real racism is in the states? Leaving these communities to whatever fate because they aren't seen as being on the same level of humanity as the richer, whiter, communities? Maybe that feeds into the attitude of police officers? I don't know.

Most white Irish people who are murdered in Ireland are murdered by other white Irish people. That's not really a good or useful commentary on what it means to be white or Irish.

They are killing one another because that's what happens in poor neighborhoods all over the world and I bet that police here have a different attitude depending on what area of Dublin they are dealing with.

Police killings are a specific thing and I don't think saying "they are all killing each other anyway" should be allowed to distract us from the fact that police are killing people at quite high rates.

Here we go

Saruhashi wrote: »

This isn't a fair way to see things either. The reason they are killing each other is not because they are black. Race is not the motivation behind the action.

People of all races are out there murdering each other over all kinds of stuff. If someone is murdered they will most likely be murdered by someone of the same race (probably someone they know).

Addressing that would again just come down to saying there is way too much killing going on across the nation. No need to bring race into that at all.

If the central issue is gang violence then work needs to be done to help those communities and keep the next generation away from gangs. That can be done in communities of any race, or any mix of races.

In the case of America the fact that a lot of African-Americans are living in poor and dangerous communities is a major problem that needs to be addressed. You can't go ahead and blame them by pointing out that "blacks are killing other blacks". Forget about their race and start focusing on improving their communities.

Maybe that's where the real racism is in the states? Leaving these communities to whatever fate because they aren't seen as being on the same level of humanity as the richer, whiter, communities? Maybe that feeds into the attitude of police officers? I don't know.

Most white Irish people who are murdered in Ireland are murdered by other white Irish people. That's not really a good or useful commentary on what it means to be white or Irish.

They are killing one another because that's what happens in poor neighborhoods all over the world and I bet that police here have a different attitude depending on what area of Dublin they are dealing with.

Police killings are a specific thing and I don't think saying "they are all killing each other anyway" should be allowed to distract us from the fact that police are killing people at quite high rates.

You mention poverty this is my belief police are not inherently racist. Of course there are racist individuals no doubt but the force as a whole is not racist. It's down to poverty for historical reasons black communities have always been poorer and been given little assistance in breaking that cycle. (From both party's )This leads to higher crime rates and more dealings with police over generations this leads to a mistrust in the community and there taught to not trust police which so there more likely to resist arrest or abuse officers and officers will notice there job is harder in these communities. On an individual level you have a police officer doing there job in a hostile environment where there's more crime more gun inncidents more police officers attacked more likely to resist arrest more likely to be attacked /killed then in other areas of course there going to be more sensitive there in a situation that is more likely to be live and death and second guessing or see what happens approch could see them dead of course each situation is different but if seen very few cases that there was zero reason it a cop foreign there weapon. With hindsight differnt views you can see it may be a bad shooting but in those circumstances and you have a second to make a choice

DEFTLEFTHAND

Christy42 wrote: »

Does this mean the police have not been mistreating people?

Yes there is more than one issue that needs dealing with in this world. No one said otherwise. I believe this protest was about the issues with policing which is why it is being discussed here. There are 101 other social issued that that protest was also not addressing which does not lesson the protest.

The Police is not a white boys club. Most large Departments across the country are very diverse from the top down.

Christy42

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The Police is not a white boys club. Most large Departments across the country are very diverse from the top down.

I repeat my question. Does this mean the police are not mistreating people, especially those of colour?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Christy42 wrote: »

I repeat my question. Does this mean the police are not mistreating people, especially those of colour?

In certain isolated incidents yes, but I don't think it's some sort of federal directive.

Think of being a police officer (of any race) in gang infested areas of Chicago or Detroit. I'm certain that many do take extra caution and in certain cases even prejudge POC, as the majority of violent crime they deal with is coming from these deprived areas.

Christy42

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

In certain isolated incidents yes, but I don't think it's some sort of federal directive.

Think of being a police officer (of any race) in gang infested areas of Chicago or Detroit. I'm certain that many do take extra caution and in certain cases even prejudge POC, as the majority of violent crime they deal with is coming from these deprived areas.

I did not say it was a federal directive. No one suggested it that I have seen.

Merely that it happens, as you say. And it happens a lot.

It needs to be fixed. This is what has been highlighted by players in the nfl. In return the POTUS has attempted to shut down the protest without any sort of debate into the issue by threatening to change the rules to hurt their employer.

A lot is likely due to minor prejudices in the heat of the moment but it is still an issue- even outside gang infested areas. Then you also have the representative of the US coming to the defense of a sheriff who was rather blatant in his own racism. Many have no faith that the police would protect or that they have any reliable legal protection against a police force that is considered to be pretty trigger happy. They have not been particularly reassured so it is no wonder there are protests.

Sweetemotion

Saruhashi wrote: »

Police killings are a specific thing and I don't think saying "they are all killing each other anyway" should be allowed to distract us from the fact that police are killing people at quite high rates.

What would you say is quite high rates?

The Police force are a small minority in America. Lets just say for example, 7% of the population. Now, if they were responsible for 50% of the killings in America I'd agree with you.

Billy86

How much does Trump and his supporters care about 'the flag' and military?

Enough for him to stay sitting through the lowering of it, and continue to praise himself and literally talk over the military song 'retreat' to say how it must be for him because he's so wonderful that they were lowering the flag, while military members (he is commander in chief) are supposed to stand and salute regardless, and as per Trump even civilians who do not stand should be fired from their jobs.

Typically enough, his fans to whoop, clap and cheer to this. Also over the anthem.

So no, this is not about 'the flag' for him or those cheering along in the audience. Just in case anyone actually had even a hint of any lingering doubts.

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

How much does Trump and his supporters care about 'the flag' and military?

Enough for him to stay sitting through the lowering of it, and continue to praise himself and literally talk over the military song 'retreat' to say how it must be for him because he's so wonderful that they were lowering the flag, while military members (he is commander in chief) are supposed to stand and salute regardless, and as per Trump even civilians who do not stand should be fired from their jobs.

Typically enough, his fans to whoop, clap and cheer to this. Also over the anthem.

So no, this is not about 'the flag' for him or those cheering along in the audience. Just in case anyone actually had even a hint of any lingering doubts.

That's just your opinion. Not reality.

circadian

I've found boards to be lacking funny satirical posters this last while. Von Bismarck is the only one that really stood out in recent times, until now.

Billy86

Sweetemotion wrote: »

That's just your opinion. Not reality.

Oh no, it's fact as much as Trump fans don't tend to like those.

1. He spoke over it, stayed sitting and saluted it in no way whatsoever as seen in the video.
2. Many of his fans did not salute and indeed whooped and cheered over it as seen in the video.
3. Sean Hannity also sat, did not salute in any way and talked over it as seen right there in the video.
4. Members of the military are required to stand and salute, unlike civilians as noted today on military websites like Task & Purpose.
5. Trump has said civilians who do not do so should be fired (see other video here) and boycotted (see tweet below). I'm pretty sure this is not the first or even second time Trump has thought his own idiocy called for himself to be fired.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/911904261553950720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fnfl%2F2017%2F09%2F24%2Ftrump-nfl-should-fire-suspend-players-who-kneel-during-anthem%2F697680001%2F

Feel free to let me know which of these are "just my opinion".

Outlaw Pete

Careful there, Billy, you might do yourself a mischief with all that barrel scrapping :P

Trump was indoors ffs! It was being played outside!

Besides, this is about people deliberately protesting the anthem in an organized way.

You think Trump is gonna bring in some law that makes it illegal for an American to sit during the anthem no matter where they are?? Be they at home, in a theatre, or in a room beside where it is being played??

Come on man. It's a sure sign that your arguments in support of these clowns is not up to much when you have to resort to this kind of nonsense.

Sweetemotion

Billy86 wrote: »

Oh no, it's fact as much as Trump fans don't tend to like those.

1. He spoke over it, stayed sitting and saluted it in no way whatsoever as seen in the video.
2. Many of his fans did not salute and indeed whooped and cheered over it as seen in the video.
3. Sean Hannity also sat, did not salute in any way and talked over it as seen right there in the video.
4. Members of the military are required to stand and salute, unlike civilians as noted today on military websites like Task & Purpose.
5. Trump has said civilians who do not do so should be fired (see other video here) and boycotted (see tweet below). I'm pretty sure this is not the first or even second time Trump has thought his own idiocy called for himself to be fired.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/911904261553950720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fsports%2Fnfl%2F2017%2F09%2F24%2Ftrump-nfl-should-fire-suspend-players-who-kneel-during-anthem%2F697680001%2F

Feel free to let me know which of these are "just my opinion".

The whole lot is just your opinion. It's a 22 second clip. Which you created into your own thesis. .