NFL Disrespect.

Ulysses Gaze

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Trump was in Dixie and used the NFL debate as an excuse to wrap Old Glory around himself in front of a partisan crowd.

He's a snake oil salesman and an opportunist.

Oh I agree he was preaching to a partisan crowd. He really didn't need to go where he went though, he could have expressed disappointment with the actions. But his "sack the SOBs" stuff was just utterly stupid and guaranteed to get owners and players united against him.

Ulysses Gaze

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Closer Community liaison programs with the Police?

Closer ties with and offering help to an organisation that they accuse of brutality, racism and killing black people?

Ulysses Gaze

Deleted User wrote: »

Closer ties with and offering help to an organisation that they accuse of brutality, racism and killing black people?

Yes.

The best way to ensure that you eradicate institutionalised racism is to work with the offending organisation to root it out.

A closer tie with the police department(s) would certainly be a step.

Protesting is commendable to bring an issue to light.
The next step would be to help address the issue that you have brought to light.

ricero

ricero wrote: »

Disgusting lack of respect from the majority of nfl owners and players.

Spitting in the faces of the vetrans who stormed normandy beach to fight for their freedom and for the fallen soliders who protected people around the world.

They might not like trump but dont disrespect an anthem and flag for something so petty

So this ww2 vet is spitting in the face of his fellow ww2 vets then?

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/discover/97-year-old-wwii-veteran-takesaknee-in-support-of-nfl-players-807315.html

mad muffin

Time for another civil war me thinks.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Deleted User wrote: »

Oh I agree he was preaching to a partisan crowd. He really didn't need to go where he went though, he could have expressed disappointment with the actions. But his "sack the SOBs" stuff was just utterly stupid and guaranteed to get owners and players united against him.

I'd say it was pretty masterful really. Gotta hand it to the man, he is very very good at communicating the message that he is the president for white racists without ever directly saying it.

BillyBobBS

Virtue signaling nonsense.

circadian

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Virtue signaling nonsense.

Yes, virtue signalling is a nonsense buzzword. Couldn't agree more.

Richard Hillman

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has anyone pointed out that the NFL is full of PC pinko liberal types?

A lot of the players get college scholarships on non-courses in arts degrees. They do the same sort of degrees as your typical pinko liberal. Although they don't tend to go to many classes but do get personal tuitions from the lecturers and assistants

The_Kew_Tour

On the bright side least parts of ME ravaged by States will be let off as Civil war and North Korea take centre stage.

Dick phelan

Since when does the military own the flag? All this nonsense about "disrespecting the troops" I don't fully agree with what they are protesting but 100% respect their right to do so, also even if it does respect the military so what? Last i checked its not illegal to dislike the military, America is an extremely brainwashed and overly nationalistic nation their "brave troops" are not considered such in most other countries.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Dick phelan wrote: »

Since when does the military own the flag? All this nonsense about "disrespecting the troops" I don't fully agree with what they are protesting but 100% respect their right to do so, also even if it does respect the military so what? Last i checked its not illegal to dislike the military, America is an extremely brainwashed and overly nationalistic nation their "brave troops" are not considered such in most other countries.

I was reading around this whole thing today, there was an article interviewing NFL fans to see what they thought. One man disagreed with what they were doing, but respected their right to do it, and added that in "other countries" you'd get shot. I'm not entirely sure what image some Americans have of the rest of the world. It does also seem that there are some of them who believe in a very literal way that the "troops" are going around the world actually bringing "freedom", which is a thing that comes from America, and that anyone who attacks America does so because they "hate freedom" end of. I suppose, if you were brainwashed to that degree, you'd react pretty strongly to criticism of the troops.

Dick phelan

Jabari Full Pedigree wrote: »

I was reading around this whole thing today, there was an article interviewing NFL fans to see what they thought. One man disagreed with what they were doing, but respected their right to do it, and added that in "other countries" you'd get shot. I'm not entirely sure what image some Americans have of the rest of the world. It does also seem that there are some of them who believe in a very literal way that the "troops" are going around the world actually bringing "freedom", which is a thing that comes from America, and that anyone who attacks America does so because they "hate freedom" end of. I suppose, if you were brainwashed to that degree, you'd react pretty strongly to criticism of the troops.

Yep nothing annoys me more then hearing Americans say things like "where else would i get this freedom" have they no concept of what the vast majority of places in Western Europe, Australia, New Zealand ect are like? America is far from the most free nation in the world i mean from a purely political perspective they are a two party state a lot worse then msot of Europe. I think among quite a number of Americans theirs a view that the rest of the world wishes they were like them when in fact i think a lot of European nations have things far better then most Americans.

Dick phelan

Dick phelan wrote: »

Since when does the military own the flag? All this nonsense about "disrespecting the troops" I don't fully agree with what they are protesting but 100% respect their right to do so, also even if it does respect the military so what? Last i checked its not illegal to dislike the military, America is an extremely brainwashed and overly nationalistic nation their "brave troops" are not considered such in most other countries.

And even at that, they have been careful enough to try and avoid disrespecting the military. Kaepernick was conscious of the military issue, he changed from his initial sitting down to kneeling, to mark that he was not protesting against the military, but solely the police.

Of course, since Trump's intervention fanned the flames, plenty are now sitting down or not even sending teams out for the anthem.

osarusan

I think use of the term 'virtue signalling' is a kind of virtue signalling in itself.

Just throw it around in any situation, along with 'snowflake' and 'safe space' and a few others, and you are letting people know that you are down with the lingo and that you are one of them too.

slavetothegrind

It's time america. Call it what it is. You have a deranged leader dragging you lower than even the creators of southpark could lampoon.

Irish Guitarist

They wouldn't even have knees to kneel on if it wasn't for our troops fighting for their rights.

WinnyThePoo

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

They wouldn't even have knees to kneel on if it wasn't for our troops fighting for their rights.

Lol

ongarite

super_furry wrote: »

I think the bigger conversation here is the militarisation of sport. Starting to see it in the U.K. with all their poppy nonsense.

If you don't wear a poppy or attempt to make a peaceful, dignified and silent protest, you're suddenly the enemy of the state. Colin Kepernick and James McClean are two sides of the same coin.

Maybe in late with this point.
NFL teams standing for the anthems on the pitch is only a recent phenomenon, staring in 2011.
The US Army and National Guard payed the NFL millions of dollars to have the teams come onto the pitch and stand for the national anthem.
It was part of a drive to increase patriotism and drive up recruitment numbers.

Before this the players would be in the dressing rooms preparing for the game.

Your Face

Deleted User wrote: »

Seriously?

Unlikely. What big findings happened over the last weekend and how did they get Trump in on the ruse?

Your perception of my post is way off.
I think you might be projecting.

foxtrot101

DickSwiveller wrote: »

But black people commit far more crime.

Black people also receive longer prison sentences than white people who committed the same crime.

StringerBell

I find it mostly amusing how freedom, and freedom of expression is of paramount importance, then it isn't.

JupiterKid

Is this another race-related issue? America really seems to be heading down a pretty dark road in terms of the future of the country.

In my opinion in many ways the USA was at its peak around the time JFK was President. After his assassination and the Vietnam War, it's been generally downhill all the way since.

Americans have a very distorted and ignorant view of the outside world. It's a very self-absorbed country that thinks its at the centre of the world. Hell, many Americans think their country IS the entire world. It's all they know. Media manipulation and an appalling lack of outside travel to other parts of the world are largely to blame. Trump appeals to these Americans and they voted for him.

But of course there are plenty of educated, enlightened Americans who do travel widely. But they are found on the coasts and the big cities and not the interior.

Junkyard Tom

If anyone is under any illusions as to the utter idiocy of the vast majority of people who use the term 'virtue signalling' then take a look at this video, or better still - just post it up on the discussion like I'm doing now to expose the intellectual rigour of the morons who typically use it.

What is 'Virtue Signalling'.

tonycascarino

JupiterKid wrote: »

Is this another race-related issue? America really seems to be heading down a pretty dark road in terms of the future of the country.
.

Yes. I noticed all those down on the knee are African-Americans. Do they even know themselves what they are protesting about or is it just the thing to do these days. I do not know what these sports players have to complain about in any case. It is because of the opportunities which they were given in America (the country they now dislike) that they are now multi-millionaires. I also found it beyond idiotic of them to have stood and respected the British anthem (the country that put their ancestors into slavery) yet then go down on the knee when the American anthem played. If it is Black Lives Matter rubbish then that is laughable because Data shows that 93 percent of black homicide victims are killed by other blacks and according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics - Blacks commit violent crimes at 7 to 10 times the rate that whites do. What exactly are these African-American's protesting about??:rolleyes:

KKkitty

Trump needs to cop the feck on about this seriously. You go into a church and you genuflect upon entering it. You kneel during mass to respect your lord. What these NFL players are doing isn't much different if you look at it. They're showing their respect in a different way to standing for their national anthem. Trump just wants to be the sensationalist president. He wants to build a wall, nuke North Korea, be on the side of white supremacists by saying there's fine people on both sides when wannabe KKK fcuktards want to have a idiotic march. By saying the words "son of a bitch" openly shows he's got zero class or diplomacy. For the love of all that's right with the world impeach him already before there's nothing left.

Sam Quentin

They need to stop this disrespect immediately like it's not as if the leaders of the World USA haven't got enough to worry about. Maybe they are under the influence of their NFL coaches!? The kids will be drinking and fighting on the streets next, drinking stuff that would knock out an Elephant>> just like the GAA in Ireland... Jaysizzzzz the thought of it USA is fooooked.

Realt Dearg Sec

Richard Hillman wrote: »

A lot of the players get college scholarships on non-courses in arts degrees. They do the same sort of degrees as your typical pinko liberal. Although they don't tend to go to many classes but do get personal tuitions from the lecturers and assistants

You've done a fine job of illustrating that your whole opinion is based on half-baked second-hand knowledge that you neither fully absorbed nor completely understood. And in a tone of pedantic self-confidence as well. So pretty much business as usual.

So I'll set you straight, just so that next time you're holding forth and talking down to someone on a subject they know more than you about (as Conor does):
It's not that "a lot" of them do scholarships, they all do, all the good ones anyway.

There are no "arts degrees" here. Students take a wide breadth of courses, including humanities, sciences, etc, with compulsory courses in things like composition and mathematics. Football players are far, far more likely to major in a business or related major than anything "arts" related (more than twice as likely, in fact). Typical pinko liberal subjects indeed.

Football players, as with all other "student-athletes" are entitled to some tuition help, almost exclusively by other undergraduates (not lecturers and assistants) for an extra few quid to help pay their way. This is often necessary both because they tend to need extra help in terms of getting on in courses and because the extreme demands placed on them make it difficult to stay on top of course work.

I currently only have one footballer in my classes in the Texas university I work at, and his attendance record is perfect. If it wasn't, his coaches would hear all about it. I previously worked at Notre Dame and footballers there were expected to maintain a very high GPA, and received no favours from lecturers in that regard I can assure you.

What I can absolutely guarantee is that any beliefs these men have about the police, or their place in the social order in America, is a matter of experience, and not because of anything they've been told by some professor or other, I can't imagine an opinion they'd value less, by and large, than the professor's. But in my experience they certainly are not lefty, or liberal, in any kind of sense that you presumably mean when you rant about pinkos. The NFL is an extremely conservative league in many ways, and while it is always dangerous business to generalise about such a group like NFL players, who are nothing if not a widely diverse bunch, it would be extremely misleading to characterise them as predominantly left wing in the sense you mean.

Unlike yourself, though, I'm inclined to listen to people when they talk about their experiences and opinions, and where those opinions came from, rather than declare that their opinions must have come from the big bad wolf of pinko liberal professors, all while happily insinuating that that's the only reasonable explanation because they must be stupid.

Sorry for the long post, but your own one was so desperately half-informed and misleading (especially the vague implication that you had any understanding whatsoever what you're talking about) that I had to intervene.

Tl;dr, you're wrong and your opinion is based on a bunch of half understood half-truths.

Samaris

White supremacist marches with weaponry and threats to local minority communities - FREE SPEECH.
Kneeling in silent, respectful protest during an anthem and causing no direct harm to anyone - TRAITORS TO THE COUNTRY!

Are people even listening to themselves between weeks or is there a contagious head injury going around?

elefant

Whatever about their right to protest and the weird strict equivalency between standing for a song and national pride etc., it is something of a pity that it took President Trump calling them sons of bitches to spark a mass demonstration.

Out of all the things that have been happening in the US before and since the first Kaepernick protests, this is what annoyed NFL players enough to take a stand?

Christy42

elefant wrote: »

Whatever about their right to protest and the weird strict equivalency between standing for a song and national pride etc., it is something of a pity that it took President Trump calling them sons of bitches to spark a mass demonstration.

Out of all the things that have been happening in the US before and since the first Kaepernick protests, this is what annoyed NFL players enough to take a stand?

I think it was that Trump also made clear that he was not even going to listen to the side of the protest that helped spark more protests.

There is also an I'm sparticus part of it when direct punishment for protesting against police brutality was suggested (I know the owners sided with the players so actual punishment was unlikely).

Finally maybe it made a few players take a closer look as to what is going on. Into stories like Bennett's and stuff like the white supremacist rally being defended by Trump and the pardon (has it been fully issued) of Sheriff Arpaio while taking offense at their colleagues. Sometimes it takes a spark for people to look into politics.

elefant

Christy42 wrote: »

I think it was that Trump also made clear that he was not even going to listen to the side of the protest that helped spark more protests.

There is also an I'm sparticus part of it when direct punishment for protesting against police brutality was suggested (I know the owners sided with the players so actual punishment was unlikely).

Finally maybe it made a few players take a closer look as to what is going on. Into stories like Bennett's and stuff like the white supremacist rally being defended by Trump and the pardon (has it been fully issued) of Sheriff Arpaio while taking offense at their colleagues. Sometimes it takes a spark for people to look into politics.

That, to me, would seem like a much more logical touch-paper for a mass protest.

I understand that the impetus for these kind of movements can come from unlikely sources, but Trump's outburst in Alabama being the catalyst in this case spoils the effect ever so slightly in my eyes. Kaepernick, Bennett, Lynch... and pretty much nobody else seems put out enough by societal issues in general to take a knee for months and months, but as soon as Trump has a go at them personally they're all over it?

Richard Hillman

Funny that the Cowboys are getting praised for last night's knee BEFORE the anthem. No player would take a knee during the anthem in Dallas otherwise the owner will do what Donald Trump has said and will cut them (unless your name is Dak, Zeke or Dez).

VinLieger

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Funny that the Cowboys are getting praised for last night's knee BEFORE the anthem. No player would take a knee during the anthem in Dallas otherwise the owner will do what Donald Trump has said and will cut them (unless your name is Dak, Zeke or Dez).

The owner was out there on the field with them during it

BillyBobBS

Looks like the NFL have made a massive mistake here. Players roundly booed last night as they took a knee.

elefant

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Looks like the NFL have made a massive mistake here. Players roundly booed last night as they took a knee.

What is the NFL's mistake?

Manic Moran

Well, I think he means the people involved in it.

It's certainly not a unanimous position. The best selling jersey this week is the sole Steelers player who was visible, and standing, during the Anthem when the rest of the team had decided to avoid the controversy entirely by simply not showing up. http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/25/news/companies/alejandro-villanueva-jersey-sales-steelers/index.html

weldoninhio

tonycascarino wrote: »

Yes. I noticed all those down on the knee are African-Americans. Do they even know themselves what they are protesting about or is it just the thing to do these days. I do not know what these sports players have to complain about in any case. It is because of the opportunities which they were given in America (the country they now dislike) that they are now multi-millionaires. I also found it beyond idiotic of them to have stood and respected the British anthem (the country that put their ancestors into slavery) yet then go down on the knee when the American anthem played. If it is Black Lives Matter rubbish then that is laughable because Data shows that 93 percent of black homicide victims are killed by other blacks and according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics - Blacks commit violent crimes at 7 to 10 times the rate that whites do. What exactly are these African-American's protesting about??:rolleyes:

The video below is the best summation of the "protests" that i've seen.

https://youtu.be/a_tW1EkOcuY

Christy42

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Looks like the NFL have made a massive mistake here. Players roundly booed last night as they took a knee.

Terrible patriotism amongst the fans. Booing over the anthem:p. Yeah they are not popular but it does not mean they are not right. Too often patriotism is mixed up with police/army can do no wrong in the states for some reason. It was always going to be an unpopular message because of that.

As for the top selling jersey, eh he was basically the only one anyone who did not like the protests could buy (while pro protest people are split amongst anyone else). As I said the protests are unpopular but that does not mean wrong. Lets see how it develops.

VinLieger

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Looks like the NFL have made a massive mistake here. Players roundly booed last night as they took a knee.

Very early call to make, also initial reaction is unsurprising considering the average demographic of people who attend NFL games, ie they cheer when the sign tells them to cheer, not the sharpest knives in the box

mattser

VinLieger wrote: »

Very early call to make, also initial reaction is unsurprising considering the average demographic of people who attend NFL games, ie they cheer when the sign tells them to cheer, not the sharpest knives in the box

A bit like Hill 16 then.

BillyBobBS

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Looks like the NFL have made a massive mistake here. Players roundly booed last night as they took a knee.

How has the NFL made a mistake? It has not promoted the protest at all.

lawred2

Sam Quentin wrote: »

Stupid innocent disrespectful 'young-people' immaturity of the highest order.. Disrespecting their Country and Elders, Disrespecting their President and making USA look weak, making them more vulnerable in these troubled times.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/other/donald-trumps-national-anthem-comments-spark-mass-of-protests-by-american-football-players-807195.html

I hope you just forgot to add the sarcasm tags...

I hope.

If not, I'd love for you to detail how a few lads kneeling during a song does this

making USA look weak, making them more vulnerable in these troubled times

as for disrespecting the president - puhleeeese

lawred2

Samaris wrote: »

White supremacist marches with weaponry and threats to local minority communities - FREE SPEECH.
Kneeling in silent, respectful protest during an anthem and causing no direct harm to anyone - TRAITORS TO THE COUNTRY!

Are people even listening to themselves between weeks or is there a contagious head injury going around?

Freedom to hate must be protected at all costs

Trump has infinitely more to say about a few athletes kneeling in silence than he does about neo nazi white supremacist rallies making a whole lot more noise...

This thread though is sadly indication enough that there are plenty on this side of the pond happy enough to prop up Trump's view of the world - which freedoms are freedoms and which freedoms are really not freedoms...

c_man

The people outraged by this (on both sides) are dry sh!tes.

The President of the US is having a Twitter argument with pro-athletes, bigging up other sports where it's not happening, calling them SOBs. It's hilarious, the whole thing!

lawred2

c_man wrote: »

The people outraged by this (on both sides) are dry sh!tes.

The President of the US is having a Twitter argument with pro-athletes, bigging up other sports where it's not happening, calling them SOBs. It's hilarious, the whole thing!

It's not really hilarious at all though... Trump would be utterly hilarious except for the fact that he's president.

He's wildly swinging between advancing nuclear war abroad and advancing race war at home all through the medium of 128 character outbursts... Some might find that hilarious. I don't really.

Jelle1880

The US' fascination with what some people deem real patrotism is weird and imo dangerous.

Robin Williams in 'Man of the Year' phrased it perfect:

Why do we need a Constitutional Amendment with regard to burning the flag? Let's just make the flag out of asbestos. They talk about the desecration of the American flag and yet, online, you can buy flag underwear. I just saw my grandmother wearing a flag thong, and I was like, "Granny, I don't wanna know where Old Glory is!"... If it was *really* unpatriotic to question one's government, we'd still be British.

c_man

lawred2 wrote: »

It's not really hilarious at all though...

It is, it really is

But please continue your outrage at the deranged US President's internet rants, and tell me how we should all pay heed to what multi-millionaire athletes from a sport which produces a serious number of head injuries, have to say on the state of race relations.

North Korea who? Russia what?

Captain Obvious

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Looks like the NFL have made a massive mistake here. Players roundly booed last night as they took a knee.

I saw one of the videos. Didn't seem like a very hostile crowd. Compare the noise level of the boos to the cheer after the anthem and there's a pretty noticeable difference. Although it does speak to the stupidity and hypocrisy of some people to accuse someone of disrespecting the country by kneeling during the anthem yet seem to think it's fine to try drown it out with noise. Personally if I saw someone kneeling during an anthem and I saw another booing, I'd say the second fella was the most disrespectful.

Wanderer78

c_man wrote:

The President of the US is having a Twitter argument with pro-athletes, bigging up other sports where it's not happening, calling them SOBs. It's hilarious, the whole thing!

I agree with lawred, it's actually very disturbing to watch this administration unfolding, I'm now convinced one of the most powerful men in the world is actually a sociopath, and that's not a good thing at all, very deranged man, very dangerous for all.