Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953437#Comment_118953437

I explicitly have said that the idea that Cork have a certain expectation is internal to Cork. That's actually my central point. If you had read my posts you'd have seen that. Not sure why you try to compare a privately owned and funded professional sporting organisation with a GAA county.

It would be interesting to have it explained why, in the face of all observable evidence (clubs constantly failing in Munster and seemingly miles behind, years of underage lack of success until the last couple of years, colleges' teams which were previously leading forces now but a memory) expectations have not fallen? Why are expectations the same as when the County was ticking all the boxes at colleges and underage in the late 60s/early 70s? Delusion? Blind faith? Or is there an actual logical reason?

(History and heritage are abstractions. You feel them and you value them and that's fine. But you cannot seriously forward them as an argument for expectations of Cork for 2022.)

Even kitsch auld guff about the Cork man with the "inferiority complex" only holds water when they are winning and seen to be successful. In reality the Cork players look fearful and lacking confidence. When you look at a club like Blackrock, traditionally a mainstay of Cork teams, and its current contribution to the Cork set-up you would wonder if Cork GAA has lost a foothold in the county that it'll never ever get back. Your blind belief in "cycles" of success might be tested in the years ahead.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953529#Comment_118953529

Yeah, that'd be it. No way could anyone possibly hold a different point of view to you and not be just a troublemaker.

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953975#Comment_118953975

Cork did win a minor and u21 all Ireland double last year. Kerry footballers Dublin Footballers all have had barren periods. Tipperary hurlers had their barren period from 1971 to 1987 as well. Blackrock won a county title two years ago. We are a county of serious hurling heritage and tradition. At the moment we are down with that heritage and tradition, but we will bounce back with that heritage and tradition. Corks hurling heritage and tradition is something that will exist forever. We are the county of Christy Ring and Teddy McCarthy. We are Cork after all.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954028#Comment_118954028

"We are Cork"? Not the most compelling argument I've ever heard but I suppose it's the best you have. And that's fair enough.

Amprodude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954085#Comment_118954085

The Pussycat Dolls THREAD is that way========)

if you want to contribute to that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953437#Comment_118953437

Cork will definitely bounce back. They have too many clubs and players not to, imo. History and tradition helps keep those clubs going so it's definitely part of why Cork will eventually return (and imo, when ye do, that team will dominate all around it).

I see some parallels with Limerick rugby, Limerick hasn't produced a professional forward who held his place in an Irish squad in over a decade but the weight of numbers makes it inevitable some talent will survive the poor structures we have here... eventually....

jimmythesulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954028#Comment_118954028

Ah this is a load of bull.

carq

Lol

is this the same lad bigging up Cork with his ‘tradition’ nonsense for 2 weeks prior to the all ireland final!?

Irrelevant then and its irrelevant now.

Edit - seems that was speakerboxx and the golden miller talking about how corks ‘natural slill’ and all irelands won in the 70s would give them an advantage over limerick.

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954569#Comment_118954569

Well we do have 30 all Irelands compared to Limericks 10. You can count i presume, so i think you should be able to get the message there. The expression, writing out cheques that you can't cash springs to mind. Limerick are a great team alright, but form is temporary and class is permanent. Limerick are by far the county with the most tradition though, outside of the sports three most historically successful powerhouses.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953980#Comment_118953980

You're on the opposite side as literally every post on this page. It's definitely not you

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954721#Comment_118954721

If the number of All Irelands was a significant factor this discussion wouldn't be taking place in the first place as Cork wouldn't be enduring this massive drought. You have been unable to directly address any point. I mention the lack of Blackrock players on the Cork panel and you tell me the won the County title a couple of years ago. (that'd be the answer to "Blackrock haven't won a County title in ages") I mention the utter collapse in Cork's colleges' record but you tell me that a Cork school won it a few years back. (that'd be the answer to "Cork schools haven't won a Harty in ages") You are countering points which have not been made.

And seriously "class is permanent".......really, that is scraping the barrel. You are just short of giving us a verse of "Salonika" while drinking a pint of Murphy's. Even if there was an agreed definition of "class" I would repeat my first point i.e. if that actually were true this discussion wouldn't be happening in the first place.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954897#Comment_118954897

Not literally every post if you read back. Others have called out nonsense too. But I will be on the opposite side because there are parallel arguments. I am pointing out the decline in Cork's record others are talking about history, heritage, class, all indefinable but all the more attractive when reality isn't going your way.

He keeps mentioning 30 All Irelands. 19 of those were won in the first 67 years of the hurling championship. It has taken 67 more years to win the next 11. That's two-thirds won the first half of the GAA's existence. Imagine if that pattern is maintained or weakens further? Maybe this trend of decline is more long-term that we realised. I'm beginning to see why people cling to history and heritage like a drowning man to a buoy.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955155#Comment_118955155

That's the very point everyone here is making but you're ignoring. On the pitch, Cian Lynch doesn't care how many All Ireland Jack lynch won.

The journalists, twitter and board trolls are a different matter, Cork go through bleak periods, people ask what's wrong, structure's broken, first match on Sunday Game. Offaly, Wexford, Clare etc can go through similar spells, nobody bats an eyelid.

On the pitch all 15 players are equal at throw in.

Rosita

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955592#Comment_118955592

Funny how the point you think I am ignoring is in fact my central point all the time. The "history and heritage" and "30 All Irelands" boast/argument is irrelevant as has been shown time and again in recent years. What Cork do in the here and now is what they will be judged by. They are now playing against players who have no memory of Cork as a force of particular strength. Yeah, they'll be aware that there's a spectacular history there but it won't impact their thinking or confidence. As you say, all 15 players are equal and there's no baggage.

And as for Offaly, Clare, and Wexford, it's always difficult to deal with a comment like thus. How do we quantify reaction to different counties' problems? If we can't do that how do we measure reaction? And "board trolls" are often just people who are saying what you don't like.

But maybe when these counties start making the same kind of claims e.g. "we are Offaly", "we are Wexford", or "we are Clare" and thinking it cuts any ice they might attract the same scrutiny.

carq

Seems a mass delusion that the successes of the long past and ‘corkness’ will solve the current issues.

Fact is the only way Cork will be close to an all ireland is if somebody knocks out limerick for them. Then they have a small chance. Limerick have their number and it is the worst possible match up for Cork.

Obviously all counties would be underdogs to Limerick but would fancy waterford, kilkenny, galway and tipp to beat limerick before cork do in the championship.

Begs the question - should cork stick to their own style hoping somebody else knocks out limerick or try and change everything to try and compete with them?

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955698#Comment_118955698

Not sure how you go from "we're in agreement" in the opening sentence to somehow disagreeing by the end of your post.

Keep fishing

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955955#Comment_118955955

I don't think anyone's saying that

The_Kew_Tour

Cork are soft now. That is corks biggest problem.

We are seen as the sift touch. We have been on slide since 2009.

The state of club hurling in cork is abysmal, but its been like that since 90s.

supernova5

supernova5

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118956505#Comment_118956505

Ah now, that is an exaggeration in all fairness, regarding the club hurling

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118957224#Comment_118957224

It most certainly is not - with regard to the Senior set up.

Cork club hurling has been fairly poor for a very long time and that really is a fact.

Outside of the 3 times that Newtownshandrum won it, I don't think a Cork club has won a Munster Club Hurling title in around 35 years.

Other Counties club teams have little difficulty in beating the Cork champions, Year in Year out.

That record is truly abysmal.

The Cork Senior hurling league is tippy tappy. Referees blow for any kind of contact. Once our Club Champions get into Munster, inevitably we lose.

We have had some success at Intermediate and Junior - but the Senior club scene is truly awful, standard wise.

A Cork team from Intermediate and Junior clubs Only would probably beat a Cork team from Senior Clubs - that really shouldn't be the case.

Shedite27

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118957224#Comment_118957224

Only two Cork teams have made the Munster Club Final in 30 years. Both lost. It's not a great sign really.

Erins Own in 2006 and Glen a few years back

PeggyShippen

As an outsider who's looked in at the Cork senior championship over the last 3 years I think the standard of hurling is high. Cork has more players of a similar high standard than other counties but it's not a physical championship. Everyone is a ball player and that's ok but a physical contest should be allowed develop. Its is refereed a little bit soft but Iv noted more robust challenges are being allowed over the past year.

Cork hurling is going in the right direction ,under age especially. It will come good. Unfortunately there is a perfect storm of poor coaching, weak players and Limerick around at the moment for the Seniors. That will eventually change. I wouldnt be too negative.

Cahalane wouldnt get on any other team in Munster after all the disasters he's committed. He's a good athlete but his hurling isn't adequate. This is a drum I beat every year since forever. He's got a good attitude, that's not enough

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955955#Comment_118955955

Cork had a similar problem with Clare in the 90's, but they managed to slay that particular dragon in the 1999 munster final. Corks most successful teams always had that mixture of skill and toughness. The toughness has gone out of Cork hurling post 2008 in my opinion. The last hurrah of the 2003-2006 Cork team, was the Galway and Clare championship games in 2008. Since then our teams seem to have a fear of the physical nitty gritty stuff.

Really i hope that Corks hurling history and tradition, is an inspiration to the next generation of players and not a burden. In business a company has to adapt to the changing environment around it, or risk being left behind. Cork hurling faces that sort of challenge right now. Adapt or get left behind.

The_Kew_Tour

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118957224#Comment_118957224

How many cork clubs have had great sides on last 30 years? Newtown and that's about it.

Look how bad cork sides have done in Munster in past 15 years.

It's there in black and white

mossie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958282#Comment_118958282

Newtown won it in 2003, 2005 and 2009 but it's still bleak when compared to earlier years,

Eod100

Kerry going along with match being held in Pairc Ui Rinn instead of Killarney. https://twitter.com/LawlorDamian/status/1517400428216000513?t=bfWdzCj_oo-yoLIcrl3hww&s=19

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959367#Comment_118959367

Anything that could make it a little more competitive is in their best interests. They don't want to get to an All Ireland semi without being in some way challenged. This is the year Sam goes back to the Kingdom I think.

carq

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118958512#Comment_118958512

I think you are overestimating Tradition and Cork success.

Some of the seniors + All of the Minor and under 20 would have been in nappies or in the womb for the 2004 + 2005 wins.

They wont have any memory of cork success, never mind it being a burden!?

All teams have history and tradition, not that I think it matters a whole lot to a current intercounty player.

Corcaigh84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960471#Comment_118960471

It's not nothing though. Tradition means you have clubs with fellas there for years who know how to run teams, give advice, spot talent etc. We read about JBM giving the Barrs a team talk on their AI run this year and I'm sure they hung off his every word.

If you dropped the equivalent population of Cork into Leitrim and forced the same amount of kids to play hurling, they won't win the same amount of All-Irelands in the next 25 years.

Agree with Straight Talker, Cork absolutely need to toughen up and find some bruisers to go along with our lovely wristy hurlers. Our greatest, Ring, decided he needed to up his weight and get much dirtier (aka look after himself) when KK roughed him up in the late 40s. The same thing has happened again in the modern era, Cork have only focused on the speed department of S&C and nearly every other county has left us behind in the physical stakes.

Amprodude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118959776#Comment_118959776

And you think Cork are going to be competitive and give Kerry a game?

ShamoBuc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963521#Comment_118963521

I think they will be more competitive than last year.

But less competitive than the year before.

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118960471#Comment_118960471

Tradition is what i was reared on. Tradition is the deeds of the past that will inspire future generations. Tradition is Jack Lynch Christy Ring JBM and Teddy Mac. Wouldn't someone in Clare Mayo or Waterford, love to have that sort of tradition?

Edit: Look at Mayo they have a tradition of the wrong kind, they have a tradition of always losing all Ireland finals. Every single Mayo team in an all Ireland final, is weighed down by the failures of previous Mayo teams. Last years all Ireland final defeat, was another layer on that losing trifle. You are correct when you say, that all teams have a history and tradition, but Cork have a tradition of success. Mayo Clare and Waterford have a tradition of failure.

carq

Biggest load of rubbish!

No young lad nowadays will care about what somebody did in the 60’s or 70’s.

You are looking down on Clare, there will be a generation of hurlers in current and future teams who will have seen the 2013 All ireland success (Beating Cork in the process) . This is more relevant than ancient history of ring or anyone else to a ten year old with a hurley.

Fact is the last 3 times Cork were in an All Ireland final they lost. Clares ‘lack of tradition’ didnt hold them back. Waterfords ‘lack of tradition’ didnt hold them back in the semi in 2017

limericks ‘lack of tradition’ didnt hold them back when they won the semi against cork in 2018 or embarrass cork last year.

I dont think any of those counties would love the tradition all those recent losses, you can keep it. Ten years time you will still be wondering why the team isnt progressing which you watch reeling in the years reruns.

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963864#Comment_118963864

Well Cork have 30 all Irelands, Limerick have 10 all Irelands, Clare have 4 all Irelands and Waterford have 2 all Irelands. Those three counties have 16 all Irelands between them, and they still run well short of Corks all Ireland total. Like it or not those are the facts. For gods sake Clare haven't even won a Munster title since 1998.

Waterfords most recent all Ireland was in 1959, and they have had ample opportunities to break that hoodoo since 1998. Waterfords main problem is all Ireland semi finals. They have lost a hell of a lot of them since 1998. Limerick are a great team, but form is temporary and class is permanent my friend. I'm just very proud to be from Cork, and i'm proud of what my county has achieved over the years. If that offends you, well then there's nothing that i can do about that.

carq

Doesnt offend me, i find it quite amusing.

Again going straight back to the ancient history books. While the other counties are in Croke park on the field in July, maybe you can spend a few hours in the GAA Museum. Sounds like you will enjoy yourself more there .

Straight Talker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963953#Comment_118963953

Even if Cork don't win another all Ireland ever again, it doesn't take away what was achieved in the past. No other county will produce a Teddy McCarthy. In terms of all Irelands won across all the grades, and ladies football and camogie, we are the GAAs greatest all round county in my opinion.

Amprodude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118963953#Comment_118963953

Would you just get out of here If you are purposely trolling in a Cork thread.

Straight Talker

Cork also lead the role of honour in camogie and are joint leaders of the ladies football role of honour. Some people might say size and population has something to do with that, but Galway the second biggest county in Ireland only has five all Irelands combined in camogie and ladies football. However with regards to senior hurling and the mens senior football, we are a bit off the pace at the moment alright.

topnotch

Is the Cork V Clare game going to be televised. The Kilkenny V Galway game is on at 2PM as well on RTE.

zetecescort

Clare have what we dont, massive workrate. worried enough for next weekend. Cork and Tipp to miss out in Munster?

zetecescort

Munster camogie semifinal result, Cork 2-17 Waterford 3-10

zetecescort

Munster u20 football final tomorrow at 7:30, live on TG4

1. Callum Dungan (Carrigaline)
2. Jacob O’Driscoll (Valley Rovers)
3. Tommy Walsh (Kanturk)
4. Dan Peet (Clonakilty)
5. Darragh Cashman (Millstreet) Joint Captain.
6. Neil Lordan (Ballinora) Joint Captain
7. Sean Brady (Ballygarvan)
8. Kelan Scannell (Carbery Rangers)
9. Alan Walsh (Kanturk)
10. Richard O’Sullivan (Newcestown)
11. Colin Walsh (Kanturk)
12. Hugh Murphy (Éire Óg)
13. Ryan O’Donovan (Barryroe)
14. Conor Hanlon (Buttevant)
15. Darragh O’Mahony (Ballincollig)
16. Ronan Cashman (Kanturk)
17. Adam Walsh-Murphy (Valley Rovers)
18. Mikey Browne (Newmarket)
19. Paddy O’Driscoll (Gabriel Rangers)
20. Tadhg O’Donoghue (Carrig na bhFear)
21. Liam O’Connell (Ballincollig)
22. Conor Daly (Clonakilty)
23. Eoin Walsh (Clyda Rovers)
24. Fintan Fenner (Castletownbere)

Additional Panel Members; Conor Dodd (Canovee), Danny Linehan (Castlemagner), Robbie Minihane (Castlehaven), Daragh Murray (Glanmire), Hugh O’Connor (Newmarket), Michael O’Neill (Buttevant), Peadar O’Rourke (Carbery Rangers), Joe O’Shea (Urhan), Ciarán O’Sullivan (Kilshannig), Ben Twomey (Fermoy), Fergal Walsh (Argideen Rangers), Sean Walsh (Argideen Rangers)

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118970229#Comment_118970229

Bit of a stinker of a result that, with essentially a 1st choice lineup out.

I suppose they’ll say it’s knockout hurling so the win is all that mattered.

The White Feather

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118969979#Comment_118969979

I have been saying from the start that at least one of Cork and Tipp to miss out and maybe both. We seem to have more in us though but we are hampered by a manager who doesn't seem to learn from previous games. I am hoping the weekend off will have galvanised some lads in our camp and we come out with more purpose. Going to have to be a serious improvement to match Clare

The White Feather

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939416#Comment_118939416

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118939545#Comment_118939545

I said the above during the game against Limerick. If you can't be arsed reading, no plan B and not getting enough out of the players that we have and not learning from previous games. I am happy to read that the great Teddy Mac agrees with my analysis 😁

“Cork will always do well against moderate teams but when they come against managers like John Kiely and Liam Cahill they consistently struggle. Not having a Plan B is a major problem because in my book if you are digging a hole and you come back in the morning and it's full again then something is drastically wrong with your method.” 

“It's sticking out a mile that some of our present players are not showing their full potential in this present Cork system. I was on the 13-yard line against Limerick and I could have shook hands with Conor Lehane so my concern is what was the corner-forward doing back there?”

“The Cork management need to stand up to be counted as we suddenly haven’t become a bad side overnight. It has now come to the stage that the coaching staff need to make changes although I am not saying radical ones.

“I rest my case with a player like Mark Coleman playing superbly at wing-back and consistently on the scoreboard and suddenly he is a centre-back not closing down his opposition and not scoring.

“Let me add I have great respect for Mark Coleman as a hurler and hopefully he will be back doing what he does best in the coming weeks.”

“I watched Limerick when they were playing the short puck-outs and they had four defenders and what did Cork have only three forwards. 

Technically Limerick had the overlap straight away but what are the management doing to rectify this as it looks clearly some players don’t know what to do when it breaks down.

“I am trying to be as positive as I can but the management are persisting with this so-called high press and to me it is clear it’s not working.” 

The full article is here but it is everything that I and others have been saying here on Boards for ages. So frustrating to watch.

https://www.echolive.ie/corksport/arid-40857125.html

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971322#Comment_118971322

i dont think this is the case at all , i think if you take the cork half forward line they would kill clare , tipperary were awful today in the first half but they beat us by 5 points in the second half , we got destroyed in the (clare) half forward line in the second half ,

plus i think either kingston or horgan would beat cleary for pace all day , corks top 6 are very sharp i am not sure we could do to ye what limerick did to ye physically in the half back line , we always have a fight in us but we also hit some amount of wides , its a totally different type of game

how cork set up in the half back line will be huge , and if they drop a 7th man back which tipp did not do today when clare had a strong wind .were not limerick remember

The White Feather

I agree with what your saying but Clare really played well as a team today and they did really well. Cork in my opinion have the better players but its not about whats on paper. Each game does take on a life of its own though but I am hoping the rest will be a reset for us. Tipp were poor today but Clare really worked well so I can't help but but admire them and be slightly worried if we don't match their effort.

windy shepard henderson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118971718#Comment_118971718

match ups are everything in hurling , if say you put Kingston full forward on Cleary , Horgan on Flanagan you are playing to your advantage , likewise if you put lehane or harnedy or even someone with pace like robbie o'flynn on david mcinerney they could cause us huge problems ,

if i was negative on cork i think tipp today have a better back 6 man for man but bonner didnt know how to manage it

The White Feather

Good news, the Cork v Clare game will be streamed on GAAGO