E-flow demands 300 euro fine for 2 e-toll trips+ tourist scams

N2017

Hello, I am looking for some advice here in relation to 300euro fine for 2 x 3.10euro trips that were made 9 months ago. I have rented a car from car rental company and must have passed through the M50 toll twice and forgot to pay the toll charge.

I have rented the car a few times with the company last year as i was coming to Ireland back and forward, but apparently the rental company had my old address on their system and it did not get updated. On my last return to Ireland i have moved to another address.

So, earlier this month ( september 2017) i was visiting people at the house where i stayed last year and saw the letters stashed in the corner, some of them had my name on it and I collected the post (residents did not know my full name). There were a few letters from e-flow with penalties and charges for an unpaid toll sent in March this year and a couple of letters from their solicitor Pierse and Fitzgibbon followed in August. Now the total claim escalated to 300 euro!

What shocked me was their attitude towards this situation when i contacted e-flow with explanations about incorrect address and that i did not receive the letters until now. They said that this matter is now transferred to their solicitor and i am to deal with them. When i contacted their solicitors they did not want to know my story and told me to pay the full fine or it will go to court.

I called e-flow again to tell them that i have no problem with paying the toll charge only but the fines they are imposing are outrageous and i can not afford paying them and feel unfairly treated. Their rep said there is nothing they can do about the fines and sending the letters to the wrong address as when they enquired with the car rental company about the toll payment , they received my address from that company and i have issues with it i need to contact my car rental agent in relation to this fines now.

What i do not understand is why neither E-flow nor the rental agent tried to call my phone number to notify me of the outstanding balance.
The rental agent has my phone and credit card details on file which they usually use towards any outstanding charges (usually if there are small damages on the car or petrol tank was not filled they would debit a card accordingly) and could of just charged me for the toll at the end of the day or at least called me in relation to it.

I always use the same agent and am a loyal customer and there was never any issues with my rental or their services before. As far as i was concerned i have refunded the car and there was no issues with my rental or outstanding charges on the car at the time as they refunded my deposit in full ( but the credit card details are still in their system). As I did not rent a car with that agent this year i had no way of knowing about an outstanding debt of 6.20euro to e-flow (Im not sure why the agent just gave them the address rather then paying the toll and charging my card, perhaps because the demands for n outstanding charge chame in months later, but even in this case i should of been contacted by the phone) . I have always paid my e-toll passes on the trips and this one must of just slipped by, but I did not even suspect that such a small matter as a 3 euro toll payment could grow into such a huge issue and 300euro fine. I have came back to the country and although a year later but came across the demand letters and am now trying to deal with the situation- what happens to tourists and short term business visitors who are totally unaware of such a corrupted system that is set up to drain their pockets? I guarantee most of visitors are totally confused about this e-flow paying system and with busy schedules it is very easy to forget about the 3 euro toll payments. Since the rental company does not find out about the toll charges till a good while after the car is refunded how are the customers being notified about an outstanding toll charge and what happens if e-flow is unable to access them by their addresses left on the system in rental company? What if their trips to Ireland are recurring - would those poor people get back here just to be rejected at the customs because of thousands in penalties for non payment of a toll charge? Guys, the whole thing is a total confusion, whats worse is having to deal with unsympathetic customer reps and the solicitors who are there to make a quick buck. Isn't it funny how the system is set up to enrich some co-joint companies (the solicitors in this case, as they are there originally to help their client E-flow recover toll charges, but make no exceptions in an attempt to effortlessly increase their cash balance sheets on taxpayers and tourist's back. This agent in the solicitor office i had to deal with is very pressurative for the payment and now calls me every day with the request of the full pay!

So now i am being ping-ponged between the e-flow, their solicitor and a car rental company with neither of them wanting to know or understand my position although it was a genuine mistake made and the change of the address was not even my fault .
Its either pay 300euro fine and shut up or we press for court.
The thing is i happen to believe in justice only somehow the justice here seem to slip away...

Any advice on what i shall do in this situation? I do not agree that i shall pay 300 but will happily pay the original toll charge for the two trips made which is 6.20 according to their prices at the time.

As i have read online before the it goes to court they will continue to increase the fine, second to 700, then it could be 1000 or 1400? What if the judge will make me pay the full sum in court? Plus i travel, and am not even sure if i will be here for the court day, or i may not be able to take out the whole day to go into courts- God knows when it is even going to take place if it comes to that. I feel this is totally unfair and the whole system is set up to get you.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thank you for your time reading this long letter.

L1011

There are gigantic signs telling you to pay, the law is very well tested by now and they do go to court with effectively 100% success. It would be cheaper to settle with the solicitors than go to court.

The rental company would have been asked to provide address details; there is little reason to expect them to call you. eFlow would not have asked for phone numbers, they work by post.

whippet

The system is simple ... many ways to pay and plenty of signage and warning.

You seem to feel that the whole system should be adjusted to your unique circumstances even though you know very well how the system works.

As mentioned before the have a near perfect success rate when taking this to court.

You slipped up and have to face the consequences now or at a future court date

AndyBoBandy

Also, I know it's no use to you in the above case, but Hertz will pay the toll for you and just charge it back to your payment card.

Avis (and I'd say the others as well) expect you to pay it.

I've been caught a few times with Avis as I've an eFlow tag in my own car, and for the most part would rent from Hertz!

Xterminator

Hi Op

just to say i dont work for eflow, etc.

do you think your position of only being willing to pay 6.20 is reasonable given your failure to pay on time? do you accept the cost should be higher for people who 'forget to pay' for 9 months?

It seems to be your position you should not have to pay more than the tolls & that is unreasonable.

do you think eflow should have behaved differently in this case? You didn't pay, and they mailed the address that was on file with the rental car company to advise it was outstanding. when this was ignored they passed it to their solicitors/debt collectors. Is it their fault if the address was not valid?

Again their actions seem reasonable to me.

I think you need to look in the mirror in this case OP.

Sam Kade

Just pay the fine and that will be the end of it.

HurlingRanker

I've twice been caught out by the M50 toll (100% my fault, not blaming eFlow!)

Both times I realised I had forgotten to pay about a week later, and on both occasions I contacted eFlow via twitter and they agreed to waive the fines upon payment of the original toll fees. They're generally excellent to deal with in my experience providing you're not taking the piss.

And I'm sorry, but 9 months is kind of taking the piss...

return guide

N2017 wrote: »

but apparently the rental company had my old address on their system and it did not get updated.
the change of the address was not even my fault .
.

You would have signed a contract for the car hire and your details would have printed on this including your address. This you failed to correct.

So you failed to pay the toll and failed to put the correct address on your car hire contract but you feel you are being scammed ?

Sam Kade

HurlingRanker wrote: »

I've twice been caught out by the M50 toll (100% my fault, not blaming eFlow!)

Both times I realised I had forgotten to pay about a week later, and on both occasions I contacted eFlow via twitter and they agreed to waive the fines upon payment of the original toll fees. They're generally excellent to deal with in my experience providing you're not taking the piss.

And I'm sorry, but 9 months is kind of taking the piss...

I call bs, if you forget to pay by the deadline you have to wait for the letter and pay with penalties.

https://www.eflow.ie/help-guidance/faqs/penalties/im-not-sure-if-ive-missed/

dudara

Sam Kade wrote: »

I call bs, if you forget to pay by the deadline you have to wait for the letter and pay with penalties.

https://www.eflow.ie/help-guidance/faqs/penalties/im-not-sure-if-ive-missed/

I've received solicitors letters from eFlow twice in past, both times were when I had bought new cars but the letters belonged to the previous owner. In both cases, I contacted eFlow and they arranged for the fees to be cancelled with no fuss.

I've also had to contact them in the past with other questions and issues, and I've always found their customer service to be excellent. They have rules and procedures, but they're also pragmatic.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Sam Kade wrote: »

I call bs, if you forget to pay by the deadline you have to wait for the letter and pay with penalties.

https://www.eflow.ie/help-guidance/faqs/penalties/im-not-sure-if-ive-missed/

Not at all, I know a couple of people who phoned up weeks later and got the same arrangement. I have always found them excellent to deal with.

HurlingRanker

Sam Kade wrote: »

I call bs, if you forget to pay by the deadline you have to wait for the letter and pay with penalties.

https://www.eflow.ie/help-guidance/faqs/penalties/im-not-sure-if-ive-missed/

Edit: Ah sure feck it, I'll post proof. Happy to retract your statement now? Or do you want to try and make out I went to the bother of photoshopping this or something? :rolleyes: eFlow email screenshot

Seriously, the cynicism on the Consumer Issues forum is mind boggling at times.

Cabaal

Amusing to actually read the OP, the fault is the op's and rather than own up and admit that paying even a percentage of the fine would be reasonable...nope, they should only pay 6.20.
You ignored the MASSIVE signs, you didn't update your address to the correct address...this isn't anyone else's fault. neither is eflow not calling you as they do not operate like this if you don't pay the toll by 8pm.

Cabaal

Sam Kade wrote: »

I call bs, if you forget to pay by the deadline you have to wait for the letter and pay with penalties.

https://www.eflow.ie/help-guidance/faqs/penalties/im-not-sure-if-ive-missed/

I've missed the 8pm deadline at least 4-5 times, (I've since setup a video account)

Every single time I just went online and paid it like a normal toll payment without any penalty. No issues :pac:

cms88

Where's the issue here?

Sam Kade

HurlingRanker wrote: »

Edit: Ah sure feck it, I'll post proof. Happy to retract your statement now? Or do you want to try and make out I went to the bother of photoshopping this or something? :rolleyes: eFlow email screenshot

Seriously, the cynicism on the Consumer Issues forum is mind boggling at times.

Fair enough, no need to get your knickers in a twist over it.

HurlingRanker

Sam Kade wrote: »

Fair enough, no need to get your knickers in a twist over it.

You were wrong, get over it. Don't accuse people of lying if you're not willing to accept being challenged on it, simple as that.

Snotty

It's not a nice bill to be left with, but pay it and move on.

etolls have been very good in the past when I forgot to pay, I've done it 3 or 4 times and if I contact them within a week or two, they have waved the extra fines.

Vic_08

Sam Kade wrote: »

Fair enough, no need to get your knickers in a twist over it.

Pathetic.

You called the guy a liar and when proved wrong instead of just admitting it like any decent person would you post this crap.

dudara

Posters - enough. You know what they say about arguing on the internet. Focus on addressing the topic on hand instead of fighting with each other

dudara

Ultimate Seduction

Ignore it. You won't go to court. I ignored all the letters including solicitors ones 2 years ago, nothing came of it.

cms88

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Ignore it. You won't go to court. I ignored all the letters including solicitors ones 2 years ago, nothing came of it.

Good to see boards still turns a blind eye this sort of ''advice''

Ultimate Seduction

cms88 wrote:

Good to see boards still turns a blind eye this sort of ''advice''

No need for the scaremongering when nothing will come of it. You'd like boards to be censored?

cms88

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No need for the scaremongering when nothing will come of it. You'd like boards to be censored?

You're encouraging someone not to pay a fine that they're at fault for.

Ultimate Seduction

cms88 wrote:

You're encouraging someone not to pay a fine that they're at fault for.

The OP has already decided they're not going to pay for it! I'm just letting them know that nothing will come of it. They won't take you to court over it.

GhostyMcGhost

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The OP has already decided they're not going to pay for it! I'm just letting them know that nothing will come of it. They won't take you to court over it.

no, they didn't take you to court over it. That does not mean its safe to say they will not take anyone to court for it

BTW 2 years is a short time frame if the courts are pretty backlogged (which they often are) so i'd be expecting the postman soon

If you dont pay or go to court they will get a judgement and they will get the sheriff to enforce
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/more-than-170-vehicles-seized-due-to-unpaid-m50-tolls-1.3145373

Wabbit Ears

I got a fine in the post to my company and I didnt get the first letter forwarded to me (fleet car). I got the second letter with the increased fine and argued with our facilities girl that I never got the first fine.

Long story short she rang Eflow, Said I'd never recieved the first late payment notice and they waived the second fine so I only had to pay for the first one.

Theyre very nice to deal with and very reasonable.

Ultimate Seduction

GhostyMcGhost wrote:

BTW 2 years is a short time frame if the courts are pretty backlogged (which they often are) so i'd be expecting the postman soon

No, I won't be expecting it anytime soon. I also drove through it twice in 2011. What pleasure do you get from scaremongering? Trying to scare me now saying the postman will be on. The laugh is on the fools that pay it.

L1011

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

No, I won't be expecting it anytime soon. I also drove through it twice in 2011. What pleasure do you get from scaremongering? Trying to scare me now saying the postman will be on. The laugh is on the fools that pay it.

The number of people who have been taken to court is quite large.

There is every chance that you will find yourself there soon.

You are giving dangerous, inaccurate "advice". Stop.

Ultimate Seduction

L1011 wrote:

You are giving dangerous, inaccurate "advice". Stop.

I'm simply telling the op my experience. I didn't pay it and nothing Did, or will come of it. Maybe using it multiple times will result in court, but not for 2 unpaid tolls. Not a hope

L1011

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I'm simply telling the op my experience. I didn't pay it and nothing Did, or will come of it. Maybe using it multiple times will result in court, but not for 2 unpaid tolls. Not a hope

Your experience is not borne out by the vast number of people who have been taken to court.

Do not post this "advice" again.