1890 numbers - why no landline alternative obligation?

Purple Mountain

Metroid diorteM wrote: »

Who uses a landline any more? 1890 numbers need to be banned.

That's an unfair generalisation.
Most businesses operate a landlines along with a certain generation our parents age.

EdgeCase

While mobile numbers outnumber landlines in Ireland by something like 4 to 1, there's still always going to be a need for landlines particularly for contacting businesses.

The only thing that's wrong here is the networks deciding to exclude a group of business numbers from normal tariffs and ripping off. There's no technical reason for it at all.

Ten Pin

Just to add that 076 are similarly charged but for some reason Comreg picked (or agreed to someone else picking) a prefix that is so close to a geographic 07x number that callers are lulled into thinking it's a landline call.

The fact that some govt departments / services use 076 numbers is a bit of a deterrent to calling them at all and inevitably the subsequent realisation of the cost will definitely make you think twice next time you're on hold for more than 5 minutes.

There was a consultation about 1890 etc numbers earlier this year but there was also one seven years ago mentioned on noto1890...
http://www.saynoto1890.com/2011/03/great-news-comreg-to-take-action-on-189018500818-issue/

SEVEN years ago, a lot of revenue generated since then.

EdgeCase

The issue seems to be that the telecoms operators don't want to give up the revenue. There is absolutely no technical rational for this whatever. They're just numbers.

It's also quite self-defeating as a product because when people get a 'bill shock' they tend to just avoid those numbers like the plague, so a lot of businesses are no longer using them as they promote bad customer experience.

The 076 numbers should never have been treated as a different rate from a local call (included in bundles). They were for VoIP based phones and were supposed to represent a cheaper alternative to the PSTN and allow easy VoIP-to-VoIP calling and all of that. The charges effectively crippled the concept and the re-use of an old Donegal prefix was very confusing.

I know we had to stop using one in a company that I worked at because people assumed at we'd relocated to the Northwest. I've nothing against Donegal, but it's a bit confusing when your customers keep telling you they've been in touch with your Donegal office.

Also, Ireland's area code system's pretty logical, unlike the UK for example. People have very strong associations with 07 being the NW or 02 being Cork or 09 being the West and so on. Messing it up by shoving non-geographical stuff into 07 made no sense.

In Britain or the US area codes don't follow any particular structure so people aren't going to assume that the numbers mean anything, where as in Ireland they definitely do.

I am never quite sure whether ComReg represents the consumers' interests or the industry's interests.

zell12

July 2018

ComReg intends to introduce a new “geo-linked” retail tariff measure over the next year for the 1850, 1890, 0818 and 076 numbers.
It also intends to reduce the overall level of NGNs from five to just two over the next three years to leave just the freephone number 1800 and the universal access number 0818.

EdgeCase

Any timeline on the intention?

Gooser14

The 1850 number should be retained also as it is charged per call rather than per minute. The charge is about 35c per call.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Gooser14 wrote: »

The 1850 number should be retained also as it is charged per call rather than per minute. The charge is about 35c per call.

It's not needed. Bundles all include national calls, so who wants a 35c charged number?

Gooser14

Sam Obedient Snotty wrote:

It's not needed. Bundles all include national calls, so who wants a 35c charged number?

Sam Obedient Snotty wrote:

It's not needed. Bundles all include national calls, so who wants a 35c charged number?

If you are on Three or Vodafone Pre Pay calls to 1850 numbers are not free.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Gooser14 wrote: »

If you are on Three or Vodafone Pre Pay calls to 1850 numbers are not free.

That's the point. National calls are free but 1850 are not. Hence, get rid of 1850.

Gooser14

Sam Obedient Snotty wrote:

That's the point. National calls are free but 1850 are not. Hence, get rid of 1850.

Would agree if all low call numbers were being got rid. It is my understanding that ComReg are retaining the 0818 number which is charged per minute whereas the 1850 is charged per call.

1874

Metroid diorteM wrote: »

Who uses a landline any more? 1890 numbers need to be banned.

Im sure plenty have them, I still make calls using the landline for 1890 or 1850 numbers. It costs less for broadband with a bundled package with my service provider if you have another service like a landline, then you can take advantage of the cost per call if you need to ring a 1890 or 1850 number, the savings over the costs to call from a mobile makes it pay for itself, and as it seems these numbers are not going anywhere.
Ideally 1890 and 1850 should be gotten rid of so people can deduct the call costs from their bundled deal, but that isnt happening, so what you are saying does not add, up.
who uses landlines anymore? people do, to ring 1850 and 1890
why? because 1890 and 1850 are still around.

Under His Eye

They should provide a geographic number for those that want it.

EdgeCase

There’s quite possibly no landline number associated with the 18XX number. These days they can be mapped to VoIP SIP addresses and may not actually have geographical lines at all.

The “geo linked” proposal, as long as they’re not excluded from bundles, just means that 1890,1850 and 0818 will be treated as if they they’re landline numbers for billing and would solve the problems.

SCOOP 64

i recently changed my broadband provider and always added the telephone service but didn't realise with this provider you cannot ring 1890/1850 at all, my last provider you could, so back to my mobile for these numbers which is costly.

elperello

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

i recently changed my broadband provider and always added the telephone service but didn't realise with this provider you cannot ring 1890/1850 at all, my last provider you could, so back to my mobile for these numbers which is costly.

Another job for Comreg.

EdgeCase

They’re not providing a proper telephone service if you can’t ring those numbers. Complain to the network and if there’s no response or no satisfactory answer, complain to ComReg.

If it’s a small provider they possibly don’t realize there’s any issue. You’d be surprised at the way these things don’t get noticed.

SCOOP 64

The first day i tried it wouldn't recognise number , so rang provider and told them,they said, "that's right, any lo call numbers will not work with this service", standard private numbers work only, but you have to add 00353 first to dial these.
This is skytel (rocket broadband) by the way, use to be with Permanet you could ring any number.

EdgeCase

That’s not a proper telephone service then. It’s not even localized for Ireland and is working by sending calls in as if they’re international.

What it means is they’ve no proper national voice interconnection.

EdgeCase

You can actually get a VoIP service very cheaply and run it independent of hour broadband provider. Goldfish, Blueface etc all do decent landline services.

SCOOP 64

EdgeCase wrote: »

You can actually get a VoIP service very cheaply and run it independent of hour broadband provider. Goldfish, Blueface etc all do decent landline services.

Sorry, Lost me at voIP.

EdgeCase

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Sorry, Lost me at voIP.

Stand alone VoIP services work by just connecting a device directly to your broadband router. It’s either a box that provides a dial tone and allows you to connect your exiting phones or a VoIP enabled cordless phone base station.

Generally dedicated VoIP phones are pretty solid and very flexible devices too - usually way better than normal cordless phones and the voice quality is typically better too.

You subscribe to a VoIP service like Blueface or Goldfish. They give you an account with a user ID and password and you just put those into your device.

I'd you've a home office for example, they usually give you the ability to hold/transfer calls (to any phone number or mobile) have virtual extensions and all sorts of sophisticated services you normally only get on a big office system. All the fancy stuff is done "in the cloud" so you don't need any special equipment other than a phone.

You can have multiple numbers (Irish ones in any area, 076, 1800, 0818 etc, overseas numbers, etc etc ) total flexibility.

Most of them even offer virtual fax service if you need that. So faxes just arrive in your email.

You can then get a proper landline number, or move your existing landline over. You usually get very cheap calls and you can also add numbers, do all sorts of fancy routing and so on through their website.

If you change broadband providers you just plug your box into the new router just like you would your PC or Sky box.

If you move house you just bring it with you and plug it in.

If you're away, you can bring it with you or use an app to make calls on your mobile or even just use the built in VoIP capabilities of most android phones.

There's actually no need to take landline service from your internet provider, unless they're doing a particularly amazing deal.

Basically, landline as an app/service on the internet rather than a physical device tied to a particular provider.

Former Former

elperello wrote: »

Another job for Comreg.

Or not, as it turns out.

elperello

Former Former wrote: »

Or not, as it turns out.

Yes I'm sure they will prove you right when they pull down the rule book and find a reason for doing nothing.

SCOOP 64

EdgeCase wrote: »

Stand alone VoIP services work by just connecting a device directly to your broadband router. It’s either a box that provides a dial tone and allows you to connect your exiting phones or a VoIP enabled cordless phone base station.

Sounds like the box that skytel/rocket broadband connected to my router which i didn't have with my previous provider.
telephone service is €7.99 extra a month.

Got a reply why i cant make 1890 numbers today:
Hi,
With VOIP you cant ring 1890 numbers sorry

EdgeCase

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Sounds like the box that skytel/rocket broadband connected to my router which i didn't have with my previous provider.
telephone service is €7.99 extra a month.

Got a reply why i cant make 1890 numbers today:
Hi,
With VOIP you cant ring 1890 numbers sorry

yes you can. that's nonsense.

marno21

Calls to NGNs to be billed at standard landline rate from the end of 2019

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/1203/1014904-calls-to-ngns-will-cost-same-as-landline-calls-by-2019/

elperello

St Augustine must be the patron saint of Comreg.

"Oh Lord make me pure but not yet"

EdgeCase

marno21 wrote: »

Calls to NGNs to be billed at standard landline rate from the end of 2019

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/1203/1014904-calls-to-ngns-will-cost-same-as-landline-calls-by-2019/

That's a hell of long run-in time!

user1842

They took their time but at least Comreg acted on this issue.