1890 numbers - why no landline alternative obligation?

EdgeCase

Seems the plan is to introduce geo-linked tarrifs and then also phase out 1850, 1890 & 076 in favour of 0818.

By 2022 there'll just be 1800 or 0818.

elperello

Comreg took their time.
This has been identified as a problem for years and now will continue for at least two more years.
A lot of people, many of them poor will lose money during this transition period.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

Calls to NGNs to be billed at standard landline rate from the end of 2019

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/1203/1014904-calls-to-ngns-will-cost-same-as-landline-calls-by-2019/

Just to add as well that if calls to geographic/landline numbers are included in a call bundle, calls to NGNs will also be included under the new rules.

EdgeCase

This is actually really sensible. I think once the charging is sane, you'll see a lot of businesses abandoning geographic landline numbers. There's no particular reason for them anymore anyway.

In the old days 1850 and 1890 were mapped to "real" landline numbers and effectively just a call routing service run on a single Telecom Eireann exchange at so called "tertiary level" - meaning they sat on top of the network almost outside it as a separate service.

These days you can just map an 0818 number directly to VoIP trunks into a cloud based phone system, feed them directly into a call centre system using SIP trunks and route anything to anywhere using VoIP.

So it just means that businesses can have a single contact number that doesn't cost customers stupid money to call and drastically simplify their communications.

It'll actually potentially free up a lot of landline numbers and allow easier phase out of legacy PSTN business services.

AndrewJRenko

Eir are digging their heels in

https://www.thejournal.ie/eir-eu-helpline-numbers-3-4381518-Dec2018/

Under His Eye

A lot of money to be lost.

elperello

Ervia also complaining about the prospect of not being able to charge people for calls reporting gas leaks.

EdgeCase

"Eir said that EU rules dictate that national regulatory authorities must consult interested parties across the union to “ensure that decisions at national level do not have adverse effect on the single market”.

That doesn't sound like much of an argument. 1850 and 1890 numbers can only be reached from within Ireland and I honestly can't see any case where the single EU market is in any way impacted.

I hear straws being clutched.

Under His Eye

Just make the geographic numbers available.

L1011

I'm not sure I can find a tiny enough violin for these poor put upon service providers!

EdgeCase

Well, this is what happens when you come up with a revenue stream based on a nothing but a bureaucratic loophole and a billing technicality that was always going to be regulated into line.

user1842

elperello wrote: »

Ervia also complaining about the prospect of not being able to charge people for calls reporting gas leaks.

This is a disgrace. This number should be free and Ervia are very stupid to point out the fact that it is not free.

Under His Eye

The ESB also use 1850 numbers to report downed lines. Another disgrace.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Under His Eye wrote: »

The ESB also use 1850 numbers to report downed lines. Another disgrace.

They also provide 021 2382410 & 021 4947260. But I think they should be free phone numbers for emergencies and outages.

EdgeCase

There should be free short code numbers for services of social importance / critical infrastructure.

You would think that ESB, GNI, Eirgrid and Irish Water as operators of services that can pose serious danger to property or life should have one of these.

For some reason the telephone companies all have 19XX numbers for their helplines 1901 Eir, 1913 Three etc etc but numbers of serious critical importance are consigned to special rate 1850 xxx xxx

There could be a single "report dangerous infrastructure" number that gives you a menu of "to report a gas leak press 1, to report a dangerous power line press 2, to report a water main flooding property press 3"

Also numbers should be reserved for things like emergency rescue on motorways during road works .. You often see "free rescue call 08X 83637393 or something totally non memorable.

The HSE should have a non emergency 4 digit number.
The Gardai too.

Also the major government departments : welfare, revenue, HSE etc should have short codes as well as a uniform shortcode for your local council

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

EdgeCase wrote: »

There should be free short code numbers for services of social importance / critical infrastructure.

You would think that ESB, GNI, Eirgrid and Irish Water as operators of services that can pose serious danger to property or life should have one of these.

For some reason the telephone companies all have 19XX numbers for their helplines 1901 Eir, 1913 Three etc etc but numbers of serious critical importance are consigned to special rate 1850 xxx xxx

There could be a single "report dangerous infrastructure" number that gives you a menu of "to report a gas leak press 1, to report a dangerous power line press 2, to report a water main flooding property press 3"

Also numbers should be reserved for things like emergency rescue on motorways during road works .. You often see "free rescue call 08X 83637393 or something totally non memorable.

The HSE should have a non emergency 4 digit number.
The Gardai too.

Also the major government departments : welfare, revenue, HSE etc should have short codes as well as a uniform shortcode for your local council

There's only one thing wrong with all that, in my opinion, which would prevent the government or comreg adopting it. It makes practical sense.

Skid X

I see a report here that there will at last be some movement from ComReg on the archaic 1850 and 1890 call charges. Long overdue.

1. From 1st December 2019, they will introduce a new ‘Geo-Linked’ retail tariff condition for 1850, 1890, 0818 and 076 NGNs.
Calls to these NGNs will be no more than the cost of calling a Geographic number. Also – IF calls to Geographic Numbers are included in a user’s bundle of ‘call minutes’ then calls to these NGNs will also be included in their bundle.

2. To reduce the number of NGN ranges from five (1800, 1850, 1890, 0818 and 076) to two (1800 and 0818) by the end of 2021. With 1800 being free to call.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/lo-call-numbers-included-bundles.html

https://www.comreg.ie/industry/licensing/numbering/ngn-review/

corks finest

About time these 1850/90 etc numbers need to be bloody scrapped as more than likely older non tech savvy ppl are using them not knowing any alternative numbers

endofrainbow

disgraceful that some Government departments are using 076 numbers.

Ian010

The EU Consumer Rights Directive was meant to put paid to the operation of expensive telephone numbers for after sales helplines, way back in 2014. Unfortunately, DJEI botched the implementation of the directive when transposing it into Irish Law in 2013.

Instead of banning the use of 1850, 1890, 076 and 0818 numbers for that purpose, the new law specifically allowed their use. It has now fallen to ComReg to fix the issue by altering the call charges for those numbers so that they are always treated the same as a call to a landline number, and this comes into effect just one month from now.

JohnC.

Just got a text from Vodafone

1874

so these numbers are at national call rates, my mobile service provider informs/reminds me i dont have a national number bundle, so ill just be charged for them out of bundle, which means Ill still predominantely have to use my VM landline to call these numbers, Ill need to look into my bundles, so I think while its all good, people need to be clear they might still rack up some unexpected charges as, at least 076 has been included as there are many services, state and in my experience banking that have these numbers.
What are other potential outcomes of this? will the NGNs other than 1800 and 0818 go unused by businesses rapidly and all convert over to 0818? IMO all emergency reporting numbers for utilities should be 1800, would seem reasonable.

Ian010

If you do not have inclusive calls to landline numbers then you will pay for calls to 1850, 1890, 076 and 0818 numbers at the same rate as whatever you pay for calls to landline numbers. That rate is set entirely by the caller's phone provider.

If you do have inclusive calls to landline numbers then calls to 1850, 1890, 076 and 0818 numbers will be included in the allowance from 1 December 2019.

Businesses using 1850, 1890 or 076 numbers have until 1 January 2022 to stop using those numbers. They must choose a new non-geographic number starting 1800 or 0818 or a new geographic number.