New to Dublin, 3000€ rent, help needed

Mr.H

Jesus that is some cost for a two bed apartment regardless of location. Maybe it's not landlord o should be aiming my "taking the p**s" accusation at.

I know it's probably a little off topic but if someone paid that amount, then somebody is after making a fortune in profit somewhere along the line.

CruelCoin

Mr.H wrote: »

So the apartment generates 36k a year............. landlords are really taking the p**s now.

I don't give a toss about their costs. Every business has costs. But that is crazy money.

You've clearly never been involved in business.
Costs are not imaginary, and have to be covered.

In this scenario, the landlord is looking at 16 years before he breaks even, not including mortgage costs and taxation on the income.

In reality, he's looking at 30 years+ just to break even. Now that's Crazy.

Browney7

CruelCoin wrote: »

You've clearly never been involved in business.
Costs are not imaginary, and have to be covered.

In this scenario, the landlord is looking at 16 years before he breaks even, not including mortgage costs and taxation on the income.

In reality, he's looking at 30 years+ just to break even. Now that's Crazy.

So the apartment will be worthless in 20 years time?

Not disputing there are costs here but trying to spin a 6.2% yield before any capital appreciation (or fall if the housing market tanks) as being a terrible return is disingenuous. If he sells for 575 in ten years and makes a 3% yield per annum after costs and tax he's made 170k profit

minikin

Hi Buzztrot,

Welcome to Dublin/here!

https://www.threshold.ie/advice/seeking-private-rented-accommodation/do-i-have-to-sign-a-lease/

pilly

buzztrot wrote: »

Thank you everyone for sharing your feedback. This community is great and your advice so helpful!

* The building is brand new and we are the first tenants. I was told the property we are in was purchased for 575000€.

* There are several parking spots in the building, most covered, some open. The agent told my wife we would have a covered spot during the first viewing. The builders told my wife we had an open parking spot after she signed the lease and moved in. This was only discussed verbally and is not in the lease. The agent later told our landlord she was simply mistaken, and the landlord asked us to forgive the misunderstanding. I do believe the landlord operated in good faith, and most of the confusion was caused by the agent.

* The landlord has provided all the furniture required by law. However, the listing included sentences like "superb and fully furnished" and "furnished to a very high specification", and the agent told my wife that the apartment would be furnished with high end furniture. We accepted to pay a premium (as compared to average rent in the area) with the expectation we would receive a commensurate level of furniture and we wouldn't need to buy additional furniture. I understand that this gets into subjective territory, but how do you resolve situations where there's a mismatch of expectations between tenants and landlord?

* Some people suggested to find a new place and pay double rent. The issue with this is that we could end up paying double rent for several weeks, even months, and for the rest of the duration of the lease in the worst case scenario. As of now, it doesn't appear that he has started to advertise the property again, and there haven't been any viewings. Basically the landlord is only prepared to terminate the lease on the same day that a new lease would start. It would be simply too costly and too risky to start a new lease before we know for sure if and when the current one will end.

* The last comment above mentioned the idea of terminating the lease within the first 6 months without cause. We were told about this possibility by other friends as well. Is this a real option, or are we being misinformed. I would rather not drop the lease and put the landlord in a difficult situation, but understanding if this is an option would be very helpful.

Thank you again in advance for all your help!

Hi OP, you can certainly move out within the 1st 6 months without reason and if you're really unhappy with the place I would do this. You may have trouble getting your deposit back though.

Do bear in mind though that some of the things you expected are not in most furnished places such as television etc.

I have seen some beautiful serviced places though that would be furnished to very high standards for the price your paying, worth looking into them.

As others have mentioned you're paying for the location, nothing else. Also a parking space is extra in the city centre. Do you have to live in the city centre? And if you do, do you then need a car?

Graham

pilly wrote: »

Hi OP, you can certainly move out within the 1st 6 months without reason and if you're really unhappy with the place I would do this. You may have trouble getting your deposit back though.

On what grounds do you think the OP can terminate the 12 month lease?

From the RTB:

Similarly, a tenant can only terminate a fixed term tenancy where the landlord has been in breach of his or her obligations.(6) In addition however, where the landlord has refused consent to an assignment or sub-let, the tenant can also terminate the tenancy, in accordance with Section 186.

https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/terminating-a-fixed-term-tenancy

Kerryman79

pilly wrote: »

Hi OP, you can certainly move out within the 1st 6 months without reason and if you're really unhappy with the place I would do this. You may have trouble getting your deposit back though.

Do bear in mind though that some of the things you expected are not in most furnished places such as television etc.

I have seen some beautiful serviced places though that would be furnished to very high standards for the price your paying, worth looking into them.

As others have mentioned you're paying for the location, nothing else. Also a parking space is extra in the city centre. Do you have to live in the city centre? And if you do, do you then need a car?

Ah come on now this place doesn't even have an umbrella stand FFS !

Tar.Aldarion

Umbrella strands are generally provided at around the €4k-€5k mark, you cheaped out OP and this is what you get.

Anyway to be serious, the best solution is for you to find tenants for the apartment, you will then know when you have them and are able to get a new place without paying double rent.

If the landlord does not accept the people you choose or does not let you do so, you can still leave:

Ending a fixed-term tenancy
If you have a fixed-term tenancy agreement or a lease, you are also subject to the terms of this agreement, as well as having to comply with the notice periods listed above. This means that you may lose your deposit if you leave before the term stated in the lease, even if you give the correct amount of notice. However, there are some exceptions, as follows:

If there is a break clause in your lease, you can use it to end the tenancy
If you and the landlord both agree to ending the tenancy sooner
If the landlord has breached their obligations under the lease, and has not rectified the breach within a reasonable time, then you only need to give 28 days’ notice
If the landlord’s behaviour causes imminent danger of death or serious injury, or danger to the fabric of the dwelling, then you only need to give 7 days’ notice
If a private landlord has refused permission to assign or sublet

From time to time tenants sign lease agreements but during the tenancy may have to leave; for example they may no longer be able to afford the rent, have to relocate for employment etc. Normally you cannot terminate a lease unless your landlord is in breach of their obligations in relation to the tenancy, there is a break clause or both you and the landlord agree to end the lease early.


As a tenant, you cannot assign or sub-let without the landlord's written consent. However, you may terminate the tenancy if your request to assign or sublet is refused. It is advisable to get any refusal in writing.


It is important to decide if you want to assign or sublet your tenancy.


Assignment is where you find someone to replace you and you leave the tenancy; the person who replaces you becomes the tenant of the landlord. A new tenancy cycle begins and you no longer have any responsibilities under the tenancy.


Subletting to another person is where you move out and let to a sub-tenant who takes over your tenancy, usually for a specified period of time. You effectively become their landlord but are still responsible for the tenancy to the landlord. For example, if the sub-tenant fails to pay the rent you will be liable for this. If you wish to return to the property you will have to issue a written notice of termination to the sub tenant in compliance with the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

What to do

If you have a lease and wish to assign or sub-let your tenancy, write to your landlord and request permission. Use the template letter in the Useful Downloads section on this page.
If your landlord agrees to your request, then you will have to find a new tenant or sub-tenant
If your landlord refuses, you can terminate the tenancy by issuing a written notice of termination

CruelCoin

Browney7 wrote: »

So the apartment will be worthless in 20 years time?

Not disputing there are costs here but trying to spin a 6.2% yield before any capital appreciation (or fall if the housing market tanks) as being a terrible return is disingenuous. If he sells for 575 in ten years and makes a 3% yield per annum after costs and tax he's made 170k profit

3% yield in any industry is terribly low. Businesses making yields that low tend not to survive beyond their first cashflow crisis.

170k is a big number but 3% is 3%.

Ronney

ED E wrote: »

Rent €1800
Being beside Google Tax €1200

You're not paying high rent for a nice place, you're paying high rent for a location in insane demand.

Above pretty much sums up the Rent (also beside Facebook, airbnb etc.) Prices down round the "Silicon Dock" are being pushed up alot.

For €3000 a month you should expect something of a top standard. I would move out and now your a bit more familiar with Dublin extend your area of search

Taylor365

Mr.H wrote: »

So the apartment generates 36k a year............. landlords are really taking the p**s now.

I don't give a toss about their costs. Every business has costs. But that is crazy money.

If the LL has a large mortgage, he's paying upto 25k a year

LPT + mgmt fee = around €2000-2500

€27k before insurance, maintenance, prtb, capital expenditure, TAX.

So after costs, I'm not sure he's making anything.


Most Dublin apartments would be lucky making 2-3k profit per year.

Browney7

CruelCoin wrote: »

3% yield in any industry is terribly low. Businesses making yields that low tend not to survive beyond their first cashflow crisis.

170k is a big number but 3% is 3%.

Compare that to the gross dividend yield on the Ires REIT and half it to get the net yield after income tax is paid on the dividend for a direct comparison and you'll see 3% net yield after tax p.a. ignoring changes in underlying value of the asset is good, considering the risk free rate of return is 0% (if not negative) at the moment. The LL is obviously happy with it anyway. The high tax amount is a different debate - all individual, tax paying investors pay the marginal rate on their dividends.

No doubt the LL is making a leveraged investment here so his actual return on his capital employed (the amount paid over the mortgage) is much higher but much riskier if he can't service the loan in a depressed housing market.

daphne

Just out of interest - OP, what's your feeling on value in general for rent compared to where you've come from? Where have you come from? Estate agent/mgmt company blurb is just that - blurb and not necessarily accurate or representative. Have you looked elsewhere or even on daft and done a comparison of properties on there with where you are at the moment. It's like most things - there is usually bad value at both the extremely cheap and extremely expensive ends of the market. Somewhere in the middle is best value for money.

My feeling would be - don't have your head turned by furniture and frills in a place that you won't be living forever. Most important thing for most Irish renters (highly paid professionals included!) in an Irish rented property is how it's heated and whether you'll be frozen in winter with massive heating bills and wrapped in one of those blankets with pockets on the sofa!. There would definitely be a lower level of expectation than yours in this country regarding rental property standards, even in the more yuppified areas of Dublin - so be prepared. Rents in this country have never been higher for various reasons and supply is very low.  At best, you'll find landlords will do what is required of them by law - that goes for all standards of accommodation.

vmb

Been renting abroad for about 6 years, I do understand that the quality level of Dublin apartments is shockingly poor.

It's not only about price (supply shortage explains it), is more that a vast amount of apartments, and a lot of houses too, are in a very bad condition.

h0neybadger

I've just sent a registered letter to my landlord requesting the immideate installation of an Umbrella Stand post haste!

I shall allow him 48 hours to complete this, and if not completed, there shall be a follow up letter.

mrslancaster

The OP said he signed a 1-year lease in August and pays €3000 per month in rent.

Does the OP also have to pay this 1% Stamp Duty on the lease to Revenue as it's over €30,000 p.a?

http://www.thejournal.ie/stamp-duty-renting-3472330-Jul2017/

Just wondering when that's due - is it when the lease is signed?

minikin

mrslancaster wrote: »

The OP said he signed a 1-year lease in August and pays €3000 per month in rent.

Does the OP also have to pay this 1% Stamp Duty on the lease to Revenue as it's over €30,000 p.a?

http://www.thejournal.ie/stamp-duty-renting-3472330-Jul2017/

Just wondering when that's due - is it when the lease is signed?

Jesus Christ... penalised for getting ridden by the market... what a system!

OwlsZat

Taylor365 wrote: »

Always try before you 'buy'.

Did you not view the apartment?

Ads and estate agents will say anything to sell. That's basic business.

It's only the business of real estate and car sales. Can't really think of anything else you can be as "creative" with during the sale.