Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

givyjoe · 20-09-2018 6:26pm

B0jangles wrote: »

If you're comfortable of course, your choice - I'd just be wary of sharing personal stuff, there are some very nasty people on here who wouldn't be above using it against you.

Who are the nasty people so we can all avoid them?

B0jangles · 20-09-2018 6:32pm

givyjoe wrote: »

Who are the nasty people so we can all avoid them?

Ah they'd be no bother to a hard chaw like yourself :cool:

givyjoe · 20-09-2018 6:33pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Ah they'd be no bother to a hard chaw like yourself :cool:

I can give you some tips on toughening up if you like?

Hitman3000 · 20-09-2018 6:33pm

givyjoe wrote:

Who are the nasty people so we can all avoid them?

Every one that disagrees with a certain mindset.

B0jangles · 20-09-2018 6:36pm

givyjoe wrote: »

I can give you some tips on toughening up if you like?

Ah no, I'm grand thanks, but you're very good to offer

.

givyjoe · 20-09-2018 6:38pm

B0jangles wrote: »

Ah no, I'm grand thanks, but you're very good to offer .

Some nice folks here too

Bitches Be Trypsin · 20-09-2018 6:53pm

Not everyone is an asshole

Icepick · 20-09-2018 7:07pm

Similar reasons to why living of welfare is deemed normal or even desirable.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 20-09-2018 7:28pm

Icepick wrote: »

Similar reasons to why living of welfare is deemed normal or even desirable.

I wouldn't equate welfare and unemployment to obestiy.

Cleopatra_ · 20-09-2018 7:36pm

BBT, I wouldn't try to explain your very difficult, painful and complicated circumstances to certain posters who don't seem to have the brain power to process it.

"Eat less, move more", the mantra of idiots the world over.

Hitman3000 · 20-09-2018 7:46pm

Cleopatra_ wrote:

"Eat less, move more", the mantra of idiots the world over.

So consuming less calories than you expend does not have the side affect of weight loss? Yet people who believe it does are idiots.

Bitches Be Trypsin · 20-09-2018 7:50pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So consuming less calories than you expend does not have the side affect of weight loss? Yet people who believe it does are idiots.

I think Cleo means that it's not quite as simple as the mantra. Other factors contribute greatly to weight issues.

Kuva · 20-09-2018 8:02pm

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/

20-09-2018 8:02pm

I see this thread is full of empathy and understanding.

In order to lose weight there are a number of things a person can do. Watching calorie intake, going to the gym, cutting out certain foods, following a weight loss plan like Slimming World etc. We all know this and we also know that eating lots of crap is bad for us.

Now on to the complicated bit. Human beings have a whole pile of emotions (well most of us) and experiences. We have a relationship with food and for some that relationship can be unhealthy. Eating becomes tied up with said emotions and is used as a crutch. Lets say you're having a bad day so you reach for the icecream? Then it turns out you're reaching for the icecream everyday. It becomes a comfort to you. The weight piles on. At this stage your already low self-esteem is none existent. Looking in the mirror disgusts you so "feck it I'm a mess so I'm just going to keep eating more".

Every gaping hole inside, every bit of loss and hurt, is soothed with food. You see that obese person on the street that you ridicule? Its possible they are a survivor of child sexual abuse and has learnt the only way they can control their bodies is through eating.
It can also have roots in family meal times, the type of diet in the house, parents attitudes, reward systems etc. Eating disorders tend to come from the same place, one of pain and hurt, and self-loathing. Some of you need to educate yourselves.

Kuva · 20-09-2018 8:15pm

Kuva wrote: »

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/

And scumbag scientists, who will make results of studies say whatever the person funding said study wants them to say.

Hitman3000 · 20-09-2018 8:37pm

Bitches Be Trypsin wrote:

I think Cleo means that it's not quite as simple as the mantra. Other factors contribute greatly to weight issues.

It is one of the most basic tenets to weight loss or maintaining a weight. Just because someone does not like hearing a particular fact it does not make those saying it idiots.

20-09-2018 8:44pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It is one of the most basic tenets to weight loss or maintaining a weight. Just because someone does not like hearing a particular fact it does not make those saying it idiots.

What you say is correct, eat less move more and the weight will fall off. You aren't factoring in however the more complicated problem of a persons inner world and the relationship they have with food.

Hitman3000 · 20-09-2018 8:53pm

Deleted User wrote:

You aren't factoring in however the more complicated problem of a persons inner world and the relationship they have with food.

Do you not accept that some people are just lazy and seek to use anything or anyone to justify their behaviour. I do accept there are some with mental health issues but that however does not explain the vast majority of those that are obese u less not only have we an obsesity epidemic but one which is linked to mental health.

20-09-2018 9:11pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Do you not accept that some people are just lazy and seek to use anything or anyone to justify their behaviour. I do accept there are some with mental health issues but that however does not explain the vast majority of those that are obese u less not only have we an obsesity epidemic but one which is linked to mental health.

I've never met a single obese person who did not hate their bodies and who wasn't fighting an emotional battle but that has just been my experience. Yes there are probably those who are happy enough and aren't trying or interested in losing the weight.

Hitman3000 · 20-09-2018 9:15pm

Deleted User wrote:

I've never met a single obese person who did not hate their bodies and who wasn't fighting an emotional battle but that has just been my experience. Yes there are probably those who are happy enough and aren't trying or interested in losing the weight.

I watched the tonight show a couple of weeks ago where an obviously obese woman stated she was happy with her weight and healthier than her friend who is jogging the knees off themselves. I gald she's happy but I think she was full of it.

Subcomandante Marcos · 20-09-2018 9:16pm

Kuva wrote: »

And scumbag scientists, who will make results of studies say whatever the person funding said study wants them to say.

Yeah, big science out there trying to take over the world for 30k a year and potential tutorial hours. The scumbags!

20-09-2018 9:20pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I watched the tonight show a couple of weeks ago where an obviously obese woman stated she was happy with her weight and healthier than her friend who is jogging the knees off themselves. I gald she's happy but I think she was full of it.

Maybe she was happy or maybe her happiness is a defense against her true feelings. The darker more painful ones. Obviously we aren't privvy to the inside of other peoples minds. My own feelings on the matter are that there is little understanding around the complex issues attached to extreme weight gain and extreme weight loss.

MUFC91CS · 20-09-2018 10:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I see this thread is full of empathy and understanding.

In order to lose weight there are a number of things a person can do. Watching calorie intake, going to the gym, cutting out certain foods, following a weight loss plan like Slimming World etc. We all know this and we also know that eating lots of crap is bad for us.

Now on to the complicated bit. Human beings have a whole pile of emotions (well most of us) and experiences. We have a relationship with food and for some that relationship can be unhealthy. Eating becomes tied up with said emotions and is used as a crutch. Lets say you're having a bad day so you reach for the icecream? Then it turns out you're reaching for the icecream everyday. It becomes a comfort to you. The weight piles on. At this stage your already low self-esteem is none existent. Looking in the mirror disgusts you so "feck it I'm a mess so I'm just going to keep eating more".

Every gaping hole inside, every bit of loss and hurt, is soothed with food. You see that obese person on the street that you ridicule? Its possible they are a survivor of child sexual abuse and has learnt the only way they can control their bodies is through eating.
It can also have roots in family meal times, the type of diet in the house, parents attitudes, reward systems etc. Eating disorders tend to come from the same place, one of pain and hurt, and self-loathing. Some of you need to educate yourselves.

I empathise with people that feel this way but this attitude surely doesn't help. Ah shur I' am a victim of circumstance so what else can I do?

Literally everybody on this planet will have to deal with negative emotions. Everybody. Should everyone just reach for that Ice-cream, or that alcohol, or those pills, or spend reckless amounts of money on clothes, etc. Dealing with pain and hurt is simply an unfortunate part of life.

Yes, that obese person on the street (nobody should be ridiculed on the street) could be a survivor or sexual abuse and that would be awful. But you're using an extreme edge case to try and justify an all too common health problem. The person who is attending a martial arts class four times a week could also be a victim of sexual abuse. People in my life have gone through tough periods but I wouldn't have stood idly by and watch them kill themselves with food and pass it off as empathy which the above posts tends to do.

Hitman3000 · 20-09-2018 11:28pm

Deleted User wrote:

Maybe she was happy or maybe her happiness is a defense against her true feelings. The darker more painful ones. Obviously we aren't privvy to the inside of other peoples minds. My own feelings on the matter are that there is little understanding around the complex issues attached to extreme weight gain and extreme weight loss.

With respect to you , your comments are far less hysterical than some here. But the woman claimed she was happy with being obese I will take her at face value and not try and diagnose a mental illness/ issue which may or may not exist in her case. Far too many are willing to hide behind mental health to cover up for there own poor choices and basically lazy and glutenous behaviour. I do believe mental and obesity have a link but it is not as widespread as many here would like to claim. I can look back on family/frienda photos from 20/30 years ago obsesity was not the problem it is today. People are far too lazy but instead of addressing it they wish to project the blame to an outside influence or use mental health as an excuse, which belittles the experience of f those who really have a mental health issue.

Wibbs · 20-09-2018 11:31pm

There seems to be a confusion here between someone carrying a few extra stones and someone who is morbidly obese. They are two different conditions. The former can happen because of a lifestyle change, usually happens after childhood when people become more sedentary and yep, can often be down to "laziness", even good oul sloth. And yep, move more, eat less is much more in play(with caveats). The latter is usually a lifetime condition, kicking off in childhood and appears to have multiple factors going on: Familial, genetic, mental and emotional etc. Even in the "skinny" past there were extremely fat people. Yes they were rarer simply down to less food being available. Just like bugger all native Papuans have type 2 diabetes, yet they carry the genes for it at the same percentages as say Americans.

IMHO - and actual medical science would tend to agree with me - if you've put on a beer belly, or have gone from a size 10 to a size 14, that's one thing, but if you've always been fat, always been a size 20 and above, that's a very different thing.

On another note: There are a few types, about the most boring cunts on God's green Earth that one may meet and should strive to avoid like the fucking plague at dinner parties*: The overly religious and vocal, the overly political and vocal, the overly Right On™ and vocal, the overly suburban, what will the neighbours do/think and vocal, the overly new of parenthood and vocal and the health/fitness types and vocal. Particularly the male of the species in the latter. Chock full of BroScience™, self absorption and fragile of ego and equally lacking in awareness, self or otherwise. With all of the above, an introduction turns into a purgatory, a conversation turns into a hell and beyond ten minutes turns into a murderous intent that would likely after an explanation to the judge and a jury of one's peers would have one walk free with a warning.

*how you know you're no longer in the first flush of youth; you preface the word "dinner" with "party".

21-09-2018 7:56am

MUFC91CS wrote: »

I empathise with people that feel this way but this attitude surely doesn't help. Ah shur I' am a victim of circumstance so what else can I do?

Literally everybody on this planet will have to deal with negative emotions. Everybody. Should everyone just reach for that Ice-cream, or that alcohol, or those pills, or spend reckless amounts of money on clothes, etc. Dealing with pain and hurt is simply an unfortunate part of life.

Yes, that obese person on the street (nobody should be ridiculed on the street) could be a survivor or sexual abuse and that would be awful. But you're using an extreme edge case to try and justify an all too common health problem. The person who is attending a martial arts class four times a week could also be a victim of sexual abuse. People in my life have gone through tough periods but I wouldn't have stood idly by and watch them kill themselves with food and pass it off as empathy which the above posts tends to do.

+100% most intelligent post on this thread. Totally agree 👍

21-09-2018 12:18pm

What I was trying to show with my earlier post is that weight gain and loss is a very grey area and not always as simple as "that person is lazy". Life is hard but because we are not of a hive mind different people will handle stuff in a different way. That person who takes huge pride in their appearance and spends most of the time in the gym? They could be doing that because its how they cope best with lifes crap. The little voice inside says "keep pushing yourself because if you don't you will be unlovable" or maybe it says "let them see how in control you are". Do you see how complicated it all is?

I am not for one second saying every person has some sort of issue which dictates how they mange their eating but I am saying that there are vast shades of grey throughout. One of the biggest barriers to understanding others is the assumption that because I am such a way then you must be too.

SusieBlue · 21-09-2018 1:41pm

murphyebass wrote: »

How did you get fat if you got sick every time you ate? Hmm.

I’m just making the point that every fat person has a story how they became fat and excuses for not doing anything about it.

Depression and eating disorders are thrown around a LOT as excuses. Time is another one.

Then the I’m gluten intolerant gets thrown into the mix. Suuuure you are. Where’s the test. Go on show me the test that says that you have been medically diagnosed as being intolerant to gluten. Oh I see you just want to use it as an excuse not to eat bread/carbs. Ok whatever floats your boat.

Seriously?
Why should anyone justify themselves to you when you are going to give a sneering reply like that?
Do you really think discussing what is clearly a very difficult and sensitive issue for someone in that manner is going to help them lose weight?

You clearly don't understand the complexities of why some people find themselves overweight or even obese.
That's absolutely fine, but maybe instead of patronising people, you should try to understand where they're coming from instead of judging them straight off the bat.

Some people drink, some do drugs, some smoke, some people eat too much. Others have healthier stress relievers, like running, reading, swimming etc.
But everyone has their vices.
Everyone has something that they use as their comfort blanket when they are stressed, or sad, or anxious, or even happy and content.
Some people's are just healthier than others. You won't help anyone with a "bad" vice by judging them.

Graces7 · 21-09-2018 2:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What you say is correct, eat less move more and the weight will fall off. You aren't factoring in however the more complicated problem of a persons inner world and the relationship they have with food.

Never heard phrases like that until recently. It vastly complicates life . never was factored in in the years I had serious weight issues at both ends of the range and it would not if I had such issues now,

It was simply a matter of exercising will power. Or a motivation like a holiday or a wedding ahead.

Or putting health etc before anything else.

Graces7 · 21-09-2018 2:38pm

[QUOTE=Deleted User;108140752]I've never met a single obese person who did not hate their bodies and who wasn't fighting an emotional battle but that has just been my experience. Yes there are probably those who are happy enough and aren't trying or interested in losing the weight.[/QUOTE]

One of the saddest posts ever. Hating your body?

21-09-2018 2:39pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Never heard phrases like that until recently. It vastly complicates life . never was factored in in the years I had serious weight issues at both ends of the range and it would not if I had such issues now,

It was simply a matter of exercising will power. Or a motivation like a holiday or a wedding ahead.

Or putting health etc before anything else.

Luckily Grace that was something you could do. Its not something everyone can do.

Shanotheslayer · 21-09-2018 2:40pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Why, how is any different than telling a smoker that cigarettes cause cancer and kill or to an alcoholic that alcohol is either going to kill them or destroy their life. Why does obsesity get a free ride in your opinion?

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Sometimes intervention is appropriate. Would you stand back and say nothing if someone were walking towards a cliff? Why is ok do you think to remain silent and let someone possibly unknowingly destroy themselves?

Irony is you refusing to answer a question in the other thread regarding obesity and stating it's ''Whataboutry''

Yet your two posts above are literally that.

21-09-2018 2:40pm

Graces7 wrote: »

One of the saddest posts ever. Hating your body?

Yes indeed. There are people who hate their bodies.

SusieBlue · 21-09-2018 2:42pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Never heard phrases like that until recently. It vastly complicates life . never was factored in in the years I had serious weight issues at both ends of the range and it would not if I had such issues now,

It was simply a matter of exercising will power. Or a motivation like a holiday or a wedding ahead.

Or putting health etc before anything else.

That's an extremely simplistic way of viewing it, if everyone could just motivate themselves by thinking of their holiday/a wedding there would be no fat people. Its not that simple.

Graces7 wrote: »

One of the saddest posts ever. Hating your body?

Unfortunately in today's society, this is something that is far more common than you'd think.

Shanotheslayer · 21-09-2018 2:44pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Unfortunately in today's society, this is something that is far more common than you'd think.

Well gyms would be out of business if everybody loved their bodies :pac:

Hitman3000 · 21-09-2018 3:37pm

Shanotheslayer wrote:

Yet your two posts above are literally that.

I'm flattered, I have a stalker.

uli84 · 24-09-2018 3:14am

Sugar tax my ass, they should introduce this instead - free public transport ticket when you do 30 squats, genius

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbender/2013/11/14/moscow-subway-station-lets-passengers-pay-fare-in-squats/#46501f0bb0d8

....... · 24-09-2018 8:47am

uli84 wrote: »

Sugar tax my ass, they should introduce this instead - free public transport ticket when you do 30 squats, genius

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbender/2013/11/14/moscow-subway-station-lets-passengers-pay-fare-in-squats/#46501f0bb0d8

No use to me, knee surgeries have destroyed my knees.

764dak · 24-09-2018 11:45pm

She has been in Ireland for three months and is already trying to spread her fat acceptance: https://www.meetup.com/Body-Justice-and-Fat-Feminism-Group/

JupiterKid · 24-09-2018 11:51pm

I’m over in Holland at the moment and from my many time being over here to visit I’ve noticed just how few obese or even overweight Dutch there are. There is definitely a problem with obesity in Ireland.

Shanotheslayer · 24-09-2018 11:53pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I'm flattered, I have a stalker.

Yeh totally.

A whole two threads to do with obesity that you're commenting on yet contradicting yourself.

Imagine clicking into similar threads and seeing the same posters. I'm baffled.

Rubberchikken · 25-09-2018 12:06am

Fat shaming has become the new no no in the media so its taken as ok be proud of the fact that you're obese.
The pathetic and hypocritical thing is theres seemingly no problem pointing the finger at people perceived as excessively thin.

AllForIt · 25-09-2018 12:09am

764dak wrote: »

She has been in Ireland for three months and is already trying to spread her fat acceptance: https://www.meetup.com/Body-Justice-and-Fat-Feminism-Group/

I am genuinely utterly appalled by that. I couldn't stomach to read it all.

pleas advice · 25-09-2018 2:05am

In a move that will come as a surprise, if not a totally unpredictable one, Weight Watchers have decided to remove any reference to weight from their name, and are now to be known simply as WW...

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45625191

why use three syllables when six will do?

Brid Hegarty · 31-10-2022 1:21pm

Ireland is now the first in Europe to declare obesity as a disease due to the HSEs recent decision. Was listening to The HSE's national clinical lead for obesity, Donal O'Shea on the Matt Cooper show the other day.

He says that only 5-10 % of over-weight/obese people actually have the ability to lose the weight by changing their lifestyle AND keep it off. For the other 90% or more, the genetic compensation element within their body will do everything it can to bring their weight back up. Could it really be 5-10 percent!? It's funny because any time you do see a fat person they will always be carrying that coke can or whatever... so it's hard not to think it's not their own fault.

He was basically saying that we need to get away from this "eat less, move more" idea, and was very strong about it. He made the comparison to smoking, by asking "would you tell someone with lung cancer that they need to stop smoking as their treatment?".

He said that in their in-patient program they put people a highly restricted energy in-take combined with physical activity, and they don't lose weight. A lot of people texting into the show disagreed with him. He was asked "then why are there more obese people now than before?" and he said it's because the food and physical environment has changed so much over the last 40 years. He went to say that the people with such a predisposition who weigh about 25 stone, would weight about 17 stone if it were the 1970s.

It's interesting that there was no talk about the gut microbiome in this segment, which I've no doubt has had an effect on obesity due to the over prescribing of antibiotics.

Brid Hegarty · 31-10-2022 1:39pm

Ireland is now the first in Europe to declare obesity as a disease due to the HSEs recent decision.

I heard Prof Donal O'Shea (the HSE's national clinical lead for obesity) on the Matt Cooper show the other day. He says that only 5-10 % of over-weight/obese people actually have the ability to lose the weight by changing their lifestyle AND keep it off. For the other 90% or more, the genetic compensation element within their body will do everything it can to bring their weight back up. Could it really be 5-10 percent!? It's funny because any time you do see a fat person they will always be carrying that coke can or whatever... so it's hard not to think it's not their own fault.

He was basically saying that we need to get away from this "eat less, move more" idea, and was very strong about it. He made the comparison to smoking, by asking "would you tell someone with lung cancer that they need to stop smoking as their treatment?".

He said that in their in-patient program they put obese people a highly restricted energy in-take combined with physical activity, and they don't lose weight. A lot of people texting into the show disagreed with him. He was asked "then why are there more obese people now than before?" and he said it's because the food and physical environment has changed so much over the last 40 years. He went to say that the people with such a predisposition who weigh about 25 stone, would weight about 17 stone if it were the 1970s.

I can't really say I disagree with him, but there was little talk about the actual treatment, apart from a quick mention of a few diabetes drugs. Apparently there'll be loads of new better drugs on the market within a year or two that won't have as much side effects. It's interesting that there was no talk about the gut microbiome in this segment, which I've no doubt has had an effect on obesity due to the over prescribing of antibiotics.