Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

Permabear

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B0jangles

I seem to recall reading that clean living, healthy people end up costing healthcare systems more than unhealthy people, (whether they be obese, or drinkers or smokers) simply because the people with the healthy lifestyles tend to live a lot longer.

Old age is expensive and very demanding of healthcare systems.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?mcubz=1

On average, healthy people lived 84 years. Smokers lived about 77 years and obese people lived about 80 years. Smokers and obese people tended to have more heart disease than the healthy people.

Cancer incidence, except for lung cancer, was the same in all three groups. Obese people had the most diabetes, and healthy people had the most strokes. Ultimately, the thin and healthy group cost the most, about $417,000, from age 20 on.

The cost of care for obese people was $371,000, and for smokers, about $326,000.

Harry Palmr

Well there we are - kill the fit and look after the unfit.

Permabear

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beauf

Its a strawman argument. Irish Society is anti obesity in terms of body image and media.

But try get cycle lanes down the quays. That will tell you how serious this society is about having good work balance. Or getting decent working terms and conditions. Then it's a different story.

RandomName2

Stonedpilot wrote: »

As far as I'm aware no country is as tolerant to obesity as Ireland

I'm not sure if tolerant is the word you should be using there. It feels as if you think that there is a God given right to insult someone if they are overweight. Oh I suppose you could say you'd be insulting them for "their own good".

Sometimes it's possible to tell how healthy someone is by looking at them, but weight alone is giving you a very narrow picture of someone's physical well being. That's not to necessarily say that their physical well being is your business.

beauf

Permabear wrote: »

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The thread is about why it's more ok in Ireland, you're not helping that argument...

B0jangles

Permabear wrote: »

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I thought we were talking about the cost to healthcare systems that it is claimed obesity creates?

Coffee Fulled Runner

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

But so does the abuse of alcohol and all the associated costs, the abuse of drugs and all the costs of counsellers, rehab centres, the damage to families is priceless. Then you have the bankers who have totally ruined this country with their behaviour, look at all the money they are on and all the money they waste. I'm still confused as to why the targeting of obese people is in any way more important or relevant than other categories of cash guzzlers?

Classic whataboutary post.

Permabear

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B0jangles

Permabear wrote: »

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You said

but you missed this key part from the article you linked

Since the topic under discussion was specifically the cost to healthcare systems, it's hardly reasonable to switch to talking about a completely different set of costs and then say I missed that part of the discussion.

BarryD2

Stonedpilot wrote: »

The amount of people that are gargantuan on this Island is so high I'm surprised the island doesn't sink.

Where are all these obese people in Ireland? Genuinely when I'm out and about, I see people of various sizes but rarely people that are very obviously overweight.

Rubberchikken

I didn't realise it was normal or acceptable to be obese in Ireland.
There is a hugh disparity between those who have and those who have not. The poor seem to have gotten fatter and the rich thinner. One time it would have been the other way round.

Don't like to see overweight or seriously overweight people described as 'curvey'. That word to me has an acceptable tone that may encourage someone obese to continue on fooling themselves.

BarryD2

B0jangles wrote: »

When I was a child we had to take turns looking at a drawing of a mars bar.

I recall some of my friends in school getting mandarin oranges for lunch/ snacks. I used to be happy enough to get the peels........ which are actually quite tasty

Permabear

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B0jangles

BarryD2 wrote: »

I recall some of my friends in school getting mandarin oranges for lunch/ snacks. I used to be happy enough to get the peels........ which are actually quite tasty

Ah, now you're just taking the pith!

B0jangles

Permabear wrote: »

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The overall context was that people were saying that they've a right to object to obese people getting healthcare because it was costing them more via taxation. That point doesn't actually stand up when you take into account the decreased healthcare burden due to earlier mortality.

Once you open the discussion to literally every possible cost to society, it becomes so broad and based on so many assumptions and best guesses that it's largely pointless.

meeeeh

There is no denying there is cost of obesity to the society. But as far as I am aware alcohol including policing antisocial behaviour is more expensive. Considering alcohol is significant factor in weight gain I think the best solution to seriously tackle obesity and reduce state cost is to ban alcohol. Problem solved.

Permabear

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meeeeh

Permabear wrote: »

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And how do we limit the right to be obese? Do we stop treatment for overweight people. Do we treat only stuff that is not related to obesity? Do we forcefully put them on a diet?

thunderdog

I cant get my head around how someone can get to such a level to be obese. Ok, you might put on a few pounds but then does it not make them to want to get exercising more and eating better when they struggle to fit into clothes from 6 months ago.

I think we have reached a level in Ireland now where the baseline of what is a healthy size has shifted too far upwards. Unfortunately said people are often unwilling to take on any critiscm which would essentially enable them to live a much more energetic healthy lifestyle

Permabear

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Hitman3000

meeeeh wrote:

There is no denying there is cost of obesity to the society. But as far as I am aware alcohol including policing antisocial behaviour is more expensive. Considering alcohol is significant factor in weight gain I think the best solution to seriously tackle obesity and reduce state cost is to ban alcohol. Problem solved.

Yeah because banning alcohol has worked out so well for other countries e.g. America in the 20's.

Hitman3000

meeeeh wrote:

And how do we limit the right to be obese? Do we stop treatment for overweight people. Do we treat only stuff that is not related to obesity? Do we forcefully put them on a diet?

No but you can make it expensive to be obese. In the US certain Airlines make larger customers purchase 2 seats.

tomwaterford

thunderdog wrote: »

I cant get my head around how someone can get to such a level to be obese. Ok, you might put on a few pounds but then does it not make them to want to get exercising more and eating better when they struggle to fit into clothes from 6 months ago.

I think we have reached a level in Ireland now where the baseline of what is a healthy size has shifted too far upwards. Unfortunately said people are often unwilling to take on any critiscm which would essentially enable them to live a much more energetic healthy lifestyle

I remember reading before that a take away once a week without any extra exercise to compensate/burn it off will lead to a weight increase of circa 1stone a year


Do this for a maybe 3-4 years and it's easy see how people can creep towards very overweight

beauf

Hitman3000 wrote: »

No but you can make it expensive to be obese. In the US certain Airlines make larger customers purchase 2 seats.

Logically it has to be expensive, already. Health costs, etc.

beauf

thunderdog wrote: »

I cant get my head around how someone can get to such a level to be obese....

Its an addiction isn't it. Its like saying you don't understand how someone gets addicted to something.

beauf

Permabear wrote: »

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I assume then you think the same with any sort of addiction or condition that results in absence.

Of course absenteeism and productivity is already covered by most hr policies.

wakka12

Tbh I like how many fat people there are . Makes me feel in good shape and better about myself:pac:

end of the road

Permabear wrote: »

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i'm afraid it's very doubtful that things would change with such solutions. this isn't an issue that can be penalised away.
companies not hiring obese employees costs the people more tax so that idea can't be allowed. chances are obese people are charged higher premiums for health insurence if they have it.

Hitman3000 wrote: »

No but you can make it expensive to be obese. In the US certain Airlines make larger customers purchase 2 seats.

that's only so those airlines can make more money however. that's fair enough, they are businesses and if they can get a few quid more then it is what it is . it doesn't work in solving the issue though.