Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

givyjoe

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Maybe genes was the wrong word, maybe metabolism is the word I was looking for. Regardless the people I'm talking about eat a surplus of calories and remain of slim build. That's the point I was making.

Except that doesn't make sense either. If you eat a surplus of calories, it turns to fat. That's how it works, or thereabouts. The people you mention are not running a surplus.

The people you mention may have a higher muscle to fat ratio than you, they may exercise more... but they don't take in more calories than they consume and remain the same 'size', i.e. weight, muscle and fat composition.

Hitman3000

givyjoe wrote:

Your pity party posse (or whatever you call it) mate was looking for peer reviewed research to back up my and others points!

Can't let this b.s. go. I never asked you for a peer review only one person about their claim about people in the West. But hey don't let the truth get in the way of a lie. Carry on with your nonsense while idiotic it is some what amusing.

McCrack

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Maybe genes was the wrong word, maybe metabolism is the word I was looking for. Regardless the people I'm talking about eat a surplus of calories and remain of slim build. That's the point I was making.

But they don't/cannot - if they did consume surplus calories they will gain weight.

Eating shyte does not automatically mean weight gain - you can eat clean or healthy but still gain weight if your calories intake is excess your daily requirements.

There is no mystery to this at all.

AnneFrank

there is so many obese people in my job, all under 30,
It's disgusting to be honest, and they get a chipper nearly every day at lunch.
Then chocolate all day, i really don't know how they do it

givyjoe

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Can't let this b.s. go. I never asked you for a peer review only one person about their claim about people in the West. But hey don't let the truth get in the way of a lie. Carry on with your nonsense while idiotic it is some what amusing.

Well isn't the best data and articles usually peer reviewed?! Or you happy for data to be produced by any ould randomer?! I'd love to a reasoned logical point on any of my mine. which are either nonsense or idiotic. Butthurt eh :rolleyes:

pilly

givyjoe wrote: »

Except that doesn't make sense either. If you eat a surplus of calories, it turns to fat. That's how it works, or thereabouts. The people you mention are not running a surplus.

The people you mention may have a higher muscle to fat ratio than you, they may exercise more... but they don't take in more calories than they consume and remain the same 'size', i.e. weight, muscle and fat composition.

That is simply not true though. We all know people who eat like pigs, do no exercise and they're still slim. My brother could eat 2 dinners in a row, wouldn't so much as run for a bus and he's skinny as a lathe so there are definitely other factors at play there.

SusieBlue

pilly wrote: »

That is simply not true though. We all know people who eat like pigs, do no exercise and they're still slim. My brother could eat 2 dinners in a row, wouldn't so much as run for a bus and he's skinny as a lathe so there are definitely other factors at play there.

Thanks, that's the point I was trying to make. I thought everyone knew someone like that, I know I've come across more than a few of them over the years.

McCrack

pilly wrote: »

That is simply not true though. We all know people who eat like pigs, do no exercise and they're still slim. My brother could eat 2 dinners in a row, wouldn't so much as run for a bus and he's skinny as a lathe so there are definitely other factors at play there.

Again calories in v. calories out

givyjoe

pilly wrote: »

That is simply not true though. We all know people who eat like pigs, do no exercise and they're still slim. My brother could eat 2 dinners in a row, wouldn't so much as run for a bus and he's skinny as a lathe so there are definitely other factors at play there.

Jesus wept.. other factors being how quickly your body can metabolise the calories, i.e. daily. That's the other factors, he is 100% NOT running a calorie surplus!!

mathie

Why is it normal/OK to be obese in Ireland?.

"Insanity is ... majority rules"

And the majority are overweight or obese.

The prevalence of obesity in Irish adults is currently 18%, with men at 20% and women at 16%. A further 47% of men and 33% of women are overweight (BMI 25.0-29.9 kg/m2).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12002792

65% of Irish men are overweight or obese.

Hitman3000

givyjoe wrote:

Well isn't the best data and articles usually peer reviewed?! Or you happy for data to be produced by any ould randomer?! I'd love to a reasoned logical point on any of my mine. which are either nonsense or idiotic. Butthurt eh

When you have to resort to lying it's fair to assume you are not above nonsense and idiocy. As I said I only asked one person for a peer reviewed report, contrary to your claim as can be seen in my posts. Butthurt much?

Hitman3000

mathie wrote:

65% of Irish men are overweight or obese.

I think you'll find that BMI has been discredited by many medical reports and studies. All online to read.

B0jangles

Bambi wrote: »

And yet the emotional types keep going for the man while the ball that is reasoned debate remains untouched. Gotta play to your strengths I suppose

The observation in my post wasn't directed entirely at you, it was at the vast number of people on the internet who seem to think that by simply mentioning the words Logic and Reason, their own opinions and biases become mystically imbued with either quality.

You however, chose to response to what you perceived as an ad hominem with an ad hominem.

That's quite funny.

pilly

givyjoe wrote:

Jesus wept.. other factors being how quickly your body can metabolise the calories, i.e. daily. That's the other factors, he is 100% NOT running a calorie surplus!!

Which is the point I and other posters made. There are other factors. What's the abuse for?

Coffee Fulled Runner

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I think you'll find that BMI has been discredited by many medical reports and studies. All online to read.

I think you'll find its not perfect but it's a good way to measure people. Yes if you are a bodybuilding rugby playing type it won't be accurate but for the vast majority it's a excellent gauge.

Hitman3000

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote:

I think you'll find its not perfect but it's a good way to measure people. Yes if you are a bodybuilding rugby playing type it won't be accurate but for the vast majority it's a excellent gauge.

Your report is dated 2002, many reports disputing BMI since then.

Hitman3000

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote:

I think you'll find its not perfect but it's a good way to measure people. Yes if you are a bodybuilding rugby playing type it won't be accurate but for the vast majority it's a excellent gauge.

The waist measurement is a better indicator.

Coffee Fulled Runner

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The waist measurement is a better indicator.

Yes that's true some BMI calculators also include waist measurements. It's not to dismiss BMI outright it's still a very good gauge for your average person.

languagenerd

I think there have been a lot of societal changes over the last couple of generations and it's all catching up on us now.

*Takeaways and fast food: My parents had very little fast food or takeaways growing up, other than an occasional fish-and-chips (I'm in my mid-twenties, so we're only talking one or two adult generations ago). The first McDonalds only opened here in the late 70s, pizza takeaways only became common in the late 80s/early 90s. Now it's far more widely available.

*Microwave meals and convenience food: have only properly existed here since the late 70s/early 80s (can't find a definitive date on that) and have grown vastly more popular since the 90s.

*Commuting: A couple of generations ago, the vast majority of people lived within walking or cycling distance to work, so many people got af least some regular exercise without trying. Suburbs have been spreading further and further since the Myles Wright plan for the new Dublin suburbs in the late 60s. In the last few years, it's getting worse with the rental crisis in the cities - people are moving further out, not walking regularly anymore and spending hours sitting in cars/buses/trains (which also leaves less free time for exercise).

*Less manual labour: A much smaller number of jobs now are manual/physical. A lot of us work in offices, sitting all day without any physical exertion.

*Shiftwork, longer hours, fewer stay-at-home parents: People generally have less time to cook dinners now than a couple of generations ago - they get home later, when they're more tired and hungry, and want something that's quick and easy. Shiftworkers often have bad diets as they can rely on microwaveable meals and aren't at home for traditional mealtimes.

*Cultural change in terms of cakes and sweets - they're just more readily available now and coffee shops, ice-cream shops etc are more popular.

*Technology & better choice in TV etc: we have a much wider range of entertainment options nowadays and a lot of them don't involve physical exertion.

That's not to say a lot of things aren't better now - I wouldn't want to live in the 1950s or 60s - but there's a cumulative effect of less free time to cook/exercise, less incidental calorie burning (sedentary jobs, car/bus commuting) and a huge influx of convenience and junk foods.

I moved house and changed jobs a couple years ago, which meant I had to take public transport instead of walking to work/shops/town and was eating one or two microwaveable meals a week due to late shifts. I put on a few pounds in the first few months simply due to lifestyle changes & had to find ways then of counteracting that. It's basically that, on a much bigger scale.

Hitman3000

Coffee Fulled Runner wrote:

Yes that's true some BMI calculators also include waist measurements. It's not to dismiss BMI outright it's still a very good gauge for your average person.

The waist measurement is far simpler for the average person to come to grasp with. The BMI tbh is dated.

givyjoe

pilly wrote: »

Which is the point I and other posters made. There are other factors. What's the abuse for?

Are you actually serious?! Abuse... who was I abusing.. Jesus?!

You stated what I said simply isn't true.. What i said was, that you cannot run calorie surplus and not put on weight/fat. Not sure what other factors you think are relevant to this point, there aren't any. That is the only point I was making in that post.

Stonedpilot

B0jangles wrote: »

Odd that all of your invented phrases are written in a woman's voice, especially given that the obesity issue is slightly worse among men than it is women.

Also your posts are generally very poorly informed and lack anything in the way of useful information or insight.

Sorry to be so brutal, but the truth must be told.

How can text on a screen be in a womans voice?. :rolleyes:?????

If you think my posts are poorly informed or a load of shyte fair enough that's your opinion but opinions don't mean anything, everyone has one and most including yours and mine is a load of balls.
Stop being such a baby allowing my opinion get to you, my opinion it doesn't mean anything, neither does yours.It's just words reinforcing our egos.

Had to laugh at the last part 'sorry to be so brutal, but the truth must be told'.
It's an opinion and can never be eternal truth so you being brutal and truthful is a load of nonsense, especially in the context of people sharing opinions on a anonymous forum. To assume you are the bearer of brutal truth is so foolish concerning opinions.
Your narcissism couldn't be more self indulgent if you tried.

miece16

i hate fat people. big fat fatties

B0jangles

Stonedpilot wrote: »

How can text on a screen be in a womans voice?. :rolleyes:?????

If you think my posts are poorly informed or a load of shyte fair enough that's your opinion but opinions don't mean anything, everyone has one and most including yours and mine is a load of balls.
Stop being such a baby allowing my opinion get to you, my opinion it doesn't mean anything, neither does yours.It's just words reinforcing our egos.

Had to laugh at the last part 'sorry to be so brutal, but the truth must be told'.
It's an opinion and can never be eternal truth so you being brutal and truthful is a load of nonsense, especially in the context of people sharing opinions on a anonymous forum. To assume you are the bearer of brutal truth is so foolish concerning opinions.
Your narcissism couldn't be more self indulgent if you tried.

1.) https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-voice-in-fiction-writing-1277142

2.) Nice meltdown.

Bambi985

pilly wrote: »

That is simply not true though. We all know people who eat like pigs, do no exercise and they're still slim. My brother could eat 2 dinners in a row, wouldn't so much as run for a bus and he's skinny as a lathe so there are definitely other factors at play there.

I used to think this too. Then I had a closer look at the "can eat for Ireland and not a pick on them" folks that I knew - in particular a very slim cousin who ate constantly - and noticed a few things going on behind the scenes.

First off, she was a hard-core fidgeter, non-stop moving her body even when she was sitting down, swinging her legs, tapping her fingers, pacing up and down when she was on the phone, little movements that were so constant that they'd obviously add up to a low level calorie-burn at all times.

Then I realised that her eating "whatever she wants" in reality actually was "what she needs". She might binge on a mountain of junk food in front of me, but then she'd have a small snack instead of dinner later. She regulated her intake a lot more efficiently, ate what she felt like when she was hungry but simply wouldn't eat if she wasn't hungry. No emotional eating going on and the sizeable meals would be offset by all the fidgeting and her having a physical job.

And thirdly, she came from a slim family who treated food and their body in the same manner, there to be enjoyed but not abused, and any genetic advantage that gave her from the perspective of no predisposition towards weight gain. Weight issues run in families a large part of the time.

The reality is that you probably aren't aware that most people you consider to be able to eat whatever they want actually maintain a net energy balance of near 0 kcal or otherwise they simply would gain weight.

Stonedpilot

B0jangles wrote: »

1.) https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-voice-in-fiction-writing-1277142

2.) Nice meltdown.

I think it shows how insanely narcissistic you are that you assume your opinion is 'the brutal truth':rolleyes: LOL and when someone points out how ridiculous this is you childishly say meltdown.

Stonedpilot

AnneFrank wrote: »

there is so many obese people in my job, all under 30,
It's disgusting to be honest, and they get a chipper nearly every day at lunch.
Then chocolate all day, i really don't know how they do it

Careful now, you will have the PC brigade jumping down your throat accusing you of being sexist, misogynist, fatist, a war criminal, working for North Korea and whatever other nonsense they can make up as they don't like your candor.:p

Hector Bellend

I'm a fattie. F**k all of yiz

miece16

Hector Bellend wrote: »

I'm a fattie. F**k all of yiz

**** ye, ya fat bollix. have a salad

Stonedpilot

Hector Bellend wrote: »

I'm a fattie. F**k all of yiz

Haha fair juice. :pac:

buck65

I skipped most of the other 11 pages so perhaps this has been mentioned.
The reason we are fat is carbs for the most part, we need to reduce our reliance on carbs. I've done this and lost half a stone in a few months without starving myself.

Skip the muffins, scones etc. I have 3 slices of the low g i or reduced calorie bread every day along with a regular amount of spud or pasta or brown rice for dinner so I'm certainly not avoiding carbs but avoid the scones, cakes etc.

A little bit of chocolate in the evening isn't bad and I find dried fruit excellent for my sweet tooth as well.

Fecking sugary soda drinks are awful too, I see kids drinking muck like Lucozade sport thinking it is good for them! it's absolute shyte and has zero sporting benefits also.

Strawberry or chocolate milk is a lot better as a treat or a well diluted juice drink also. Kids need water.

pilly

Stonedpilot wrote: »

I think it shows how insanely narcissistic you are that you assume your opinion is 'the brutal truth':rolleyes: LOL and when someone points out how ridiculous this is you childishly say meltdown.

You do realise you're showing yourself up now don't you? Increasingly hysterical posts with silly pictures? Really?

AnneFrank

the reason people are fat is because they eat too much

mathie

buck65 wrote: »

I skipped most of the other 11 pages so perhaps this has been mentioned.
The reason we are fat is carbs for the most part, we need to reduce our reliance on carbs. I've done this and lost half a stone in a few months without starving myself.

Skip the muffins, scones etc. I have 3 slices of the low g i or reduced calorie bread every day along with a regular amount of spud or pasta or brown rice for dinner so I'm certainly not avoiding carbs but avoid the scones, cakes etc.

A little bit of chocolate in the evening isn't bad and I find dried fruit excellent for my sweet tooth as well.

Fecking sugary soda drinks are awful too, I see kids drinking muck like Lucozade sport thinking it is good for them! it's absolute shyte and has zero sporting benefits also.

Strawberry or chocolate milk is a lot better as a treat or a well diluted juice drink also. Kids need water.

If carbs make you fat then why does Asia not have an obesity epidemic?

No one food group makes you fat or skinny.
For the most part its caloric balance. There are other factors such as hormones (insulin thyroid cortisol etc)

There is a distinction between carbs that you are getting at with "scones, cakes".

Some fruits and vegetables are "high carb".

Romantic Rose

Too many things to mention that is making us fat.

I don't think it's just the carbs because we grew up on carbs and none of us were fat.

I just find that everything is an excuse to eat and eat crap at that.

Have a cup of tea/coffee biscuits and cake.

Parents are so bad for feeding their children chips, nuggets, burgers. It's like a broken record. Developing poor habits early.

Birthday parties on a near weekly basis with mountains of sweets, crisps, pizza, chocolate, fizzy drinks. Pure saturated fat everywhere.

Junk junk and more junk. No such thing as a treat, just food to fill up with.

Also, food companies pump far too much crap into our food and are being allowed to get away with it. Processed to maximise profit and get us addicted.

Agree about the fizzy drinks. Why the fook are there 14 or whatever teaspoons of sugar in a bottle of Lucozade. Absolute disgrace that a company can get away with that and market it in anyway healthy.

Where are the government here.

Need more companies like Chopped to balance out the Fatty Fast Food Outlets that are on every street corner these days.

Nettle Soup

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The waist measurement is far simpler for the average person to come to grasp with. The BMI tbh is dated.

BMI is not dated. It is certainly flawed i.e. it is possible to have a high BMI (>25~) and still be perfectly fit and healthy.

BMI is a good indication for the average person.

Nettle Soup

Parents all around Ireland are passing on to their kids that it's ok to eat rubbish food (you rarely see healthy options at a kids party).

Wibbs

Bambi985 wrote: »

I used to think this too. Then I had a closer look at the "can eat for Ireland and not a pick on them" folks that I knew - in particular a very slim cousin who ate constantly - and noticed a few things going on behind the scenes.

First off, she was a hard-core fidgeter, non-stop moving her body even when she was sitting down, swinging her legs, tapping her fingers, pacing up and down when she was on the phone, little movements that were so constant that they'd obviously add up to a low level calorie-burn at all times.

Then I realised that her eating "whatever she wants" in reality actually was "what she needs". She might binge on a mountain of junk food in front of me, but then she'd have a small snack instead of dinner later. She regulated her intake a lot more efficiently, ate what she felt like when she was hungry but simply wouldn't eat if she wasn't hungry. No emotional eating going on and the sizeable meals would be offset by all the fidgeting and her having a physical job.

And thirdly, she came from a slim family who treated food and their body in the same manner, there to be enjoyed but not abused, and any genetic advantage that gave her from the perspective of no predisposition towards weight gain. Weight issues run in families a large part of the time.

The reality is that you probably aren't aware that most people you consider to be able to eat whatever they want actually maintain a net energy balance of near 0 kcal or otherwise they simply would gain weight.

This. So much this. The number of times I've heard comments on thin people along those lines is a large number indeed. Because this is a widely believed notion that "x can eat what they like and stay skinny", people are very prone to selection bias. So they'll see the big fry up the thin person eats and ignore the fact that they ate little else for the rest of the day. It also moves responsibility elsewhere. Ah sure it's my genes/metabolism etc. And it's not just fat people who believe this I've heard the same thing from thin people.

There have been a few studies on this and what has been consistently found is overweight people underestimate their calorie intake, underweight people overestimate it and average weight people are the most accurate at estimating their calorie intake.

I'm thin. I don't exercise on purpose, so it's not that(though I do tend to fidget). Basically I have a small appetite and eat feck all. EG today I've had a boiled egg for breakfast, a small steak for lunch and will have a salad later and cups of tea throughout and that's going to be it(I rarely snack). Less than average and much less than fatter people I know.

Hitman3000

Nettle Soup wrote:

BMI is a good indication for the average person.

Several recent studies contradict what you say. There are several better indicators waist measurement being just one.

Romantic Rose

Nettle Soup wrote: »

Parents all around Ireland are passing on to their kids that it's ok to eat rubbish food (you rarely see healthy options at a kids party).

Poor cardboard diet. Even parents who look slim and healthy themselves still feed their children crap.

I go out for lunch regularly but I would never give my children chips or pizza or nuggets etc.

It's just lazy and convenience all the way.

LirW

Except your kid is a little sh1t like mine who at the moment would love to live off Spaghetti Bolognese and Toast and if I put a plate with anything veg down he prefers to go to bed instead of eating it :mad:
No matter what, I'll win this fight, I'll win.

Good to know as a fat bastard that I'm in the right country anyway.

Hector Bellend

miece16 wrote: »

**** ye, ya fat bollix. have a salad

There there hunny bunny. Faaaaaaaaaaaack off.

Hector Bellend

AnneFrank wrote: »

the reason people are fat is because they eat too much

Inspector Morse over here

Romantic Rose

LirW wrote: »

Except your kid is a little sh1t like mine who at the moment would love to live off Spaghetti Bolognese and Toast and if I put a plate with anything veg down he prefers to go to bed instead of eating it :mad:
No matter what, I'll win this fight, I'll win.

I hear people say this about their children. Oh they won't eat veg or fruit. The reason they won't eat veg is because you got them addicted to salt and sugar from an early age. Then you tried to throw them a few carrots out of guilt and they weren't having any of it.

Both my children are a pleasure to feed. The only thing my 4 year old won't eat is cherry tomatoes.

But then I spent hours meticulously planning, shopping and cooking their meals for them.

Not did what was convenient to me and bong oven chips in on high heat for 20 minutes.

Sorry I'm not aiming this at you but just an observation I have made many times with parents in Ireland.

pilly

Romantic Rose wrote: »

I hear people say this about their children. Oh they won't eat veg or fruit. The reason they won't eat veg is because you got them addicted to salt and sugar from an early age. Then you tried to throw them a few carrots out of guilt and they weren't having any of it.

Both my children are a pleasure to feed. The only thing my 4 year old won't eat is cherry tomatoes.

But then I spent hours meticulously planning, shopping and cooking their meals for them.

Not did what was convenient to me and bong oven chips in on high heat for 20 minutes.

Sorry I'm not aiming this at you but just an observation I have made many times with parents in Ireland.

Not at all judgemental or pious. :rolleyes:

Romantic Rose

pilly wrote: »

Not at all judgemental or pious. :rolleyes:

Judgemental about food?

Hitman3000

Romantic Rose wrote:

But then I spent hours meticulously planning, shopping and cooking their meals for them.

That's brilliant for you, however not everyone is in a position to spend hours planning, shopping and cooking. Cutting out the sugary snacks and drinks goes a long way and takes little or no time just a strong will.

.......

This post has been deleted.

Hitman3000

Romantic Rose wrote:

Judgemental about food?

Nope, other parents.