The End of Irish Shooters Digest??

Nekarsulm

I see a notice in the latest issue that the magazines future is in doubt.
The editor/publisher is retiring, and unless a new one is found, publication will cease.

On a side note, I see my letter re. The Sports Coalition has not yet been published, 3 months after it was received.
Not "On message" enough, I suspect!

Mech1

not working

Sparks

[Mod note]Threads merged. Also Grizzly, we can't just post up content taken from other publications like that without permission (hence the demise of the Press Clippings thread) so I've had to remove your screenshot. Sorry.[/Mod Note]

Grizzly 45

Great minds thinking alike here!:p As said, this would be a great opportunity to be able to reshape a lot of opinions and shake off a load of cobwebs and dust in the shooting scene in Ireland.

Sparks

I think you might find that there are certain groups who are very much opposed to such change. And while I think (and I've kindof put a bit of work into this) that such change is a Good Thing™, I don't think print media is the way to bring it about.

For a start, there are the massive financial problems that print has been going through for the last decade or so - and if you haven't heard about the problem, here it is expressed eloquently in one graph:



Then there's the fundamental difference between print media and online media, namely, have you noticed that you're able to post on here and have an actual discussion? As opposed to the print model where you sit there and read and your opinion isn't heard unless you write a piece that the editor decides to publish? That two-way dialogue thing, it's a fundamental shift (which, as several lawsuits have shown, nobody's really caught up to yet) and the print media is just not physically able to match it. It's why facebook now has four times as many people using it as live in the US. It's why the US president is going to announce he's nuked the DPRK in 140 (or 280) characters instead of to the white house press corps. It's why you have to queue up for a timeslot to see your TD unless you just want him to send you pictures of his genitals in which case you just need to log into snapchat with a woman's name (any woman's name will do).

It's not all great, is what I'm saying, but it is pretty much trouncing the print media and that's not likely to change in our lifetimes, even if professional content production (or what you and I used to call "journalism" and "entertainment" back when they were seperate jobs) does move from print to online/digital/social/whateverbook.

gunny123

To be honest i gave up buying papers and magazines years ago. I am into old motorcycles and used to buy all the monthly magazines, but after a few years i found i was reading the same articles, slightly changed, maybe with different photos.

With the shooting magazines, i found i was mostly reading "reviews" of firearms or products, and realised i was paying for the privilage of reading fawning adverts for products i didn't really want to buy.

Papers ? Hmmmmm, well most irish papers are now owned by voldemort, and i certainly don't want to read anything he has anything to do with.

The web and blogs have killed the print media, especially in the realm of sports or pastimes.

cavan shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Say what you want about this mag, it still is a voice in the Irish shooting community with the older generation.Here is an opportunity to acquire and change Irish shooting on a lot of topics and thought.

PS Sorry for the sideways pic.Have been faffing around for the last 1/2 hour trying to get it  straight.:mad:

I have to say I agree with Grizz on this.  Marmite springs to mind about The ISD, yet every month I'd buy it give out about why I bought it then buy it again. I think in the end we will miss it.

deeksofdoom

It wasn't the greatest magazine in the world, but it's not the worst. It was a lot different to the British 'tabloid' shooting magazines that seemed to repeat the same articles every 12 months. You'll always recognise someone in the pictures.

Birdnuts

Tis a shame - I always enjoyed Bob Salisbury and John Howards pieces in it

Grizzly 45

Doubtless the fact that cyber media will take over from print in all our lives within the next 20 years.I read a lot, and the majority of my books are now on scribd or kindle and cloud-stored, can't remember when I last bought an [expensive here in Ireland] paperback.However, I still like to actually read a real book with pages in it.It's still nice to have a library of books, especially coffee table types with photos.They never seem to be the same on a computer

But my thoughts on this go to the more elderly generation that isn't very computer literate, or just plain set in their ways and as in many around here, or are still stuck out in rural Ireland with dial-up.

Those are the kind of folks who will still go for a mag to read than the new-fangled computer yoke.Also, they are the backbone of our sport going by the stats and indeed ISD was full of "when I was a lad" articles, NARGC opinionnaires and raves, lots of clay and dog reports, Cal on every rifle shooting topic, ads aplenty and occasionally a very valuable nugget of info on some topic relevant to me,or even rarer an article that caused Irish shooting circles to use an expression from my school days."To go Spa!" [The IPSC shotgun article of 2007/08] It was/is the Irish market that shaped its content, and paid Eric's bills.

Maybe the next generation of it would be to go cyber with a subscription website?Most of the UK/US/German mags do have that facility, but its content would have to change to be more encompassing of all shooting sports here in Ireland.It was more a hunting mag than a general sports shooting mag, which it was slowly evolving in the last couple of years into with reports on rifle shoots and the like and nowadays for a limited market here, it would have to be all-encompassing and too bad if some mummies are discommoded by such progress.

I, for one, will be sorry to see it go.Eric published a few of my adventures and ramblings,[and spiked plenty of others] so it gave me a few lessons on writing as a living[1] It's hard and [2] you need to dedicate a fair amount of time per week especially with a deadline every month to it as well.So for someone like Cal to keep a column going for the last decade or so, I tip my hat to him.:cool:

It will be the last of the true ROI paper mags to close, in a long line of them across my shooting life here.The only one left will be the NI version of "The Field" All horsey stuff, the joys of owning Dryrott Mansion and the jolly japes of the local poacher and your gamekeeper in Victorian times.Or salmon fishing, eating weird looking stuff in expensive restaurants,lots of doggie articles and NI/UK related affairs and the odd shooting article in places none of us could afford in a lifetime...:(

123shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Great minds thinking alike here!:p As said, this would be a great opportunity to be able to reshape a lot of opinions and shake off a load of cobwebs and dust in the shooting scene in Ireland.

Dont waste yer money Grizzly it's only the die hards who bother to buy printed matter they are way in to the past even if just published for love.

Even this forum is well past it's sell by date because time moves on and peoples attitudes and habits change. If it wasn't for notifications of posts bringing in visits this forum and others would have disappeared with the rest of them 5 years ago. Another 5 years and there you go and Sparks will be spending more time in his shed.

If you want to do something like that, presently and for the near future you need a video/tv channel where you make regular shooting programs/videos but the subject matter attracts a lot of flak so be aware as your haters will be world wide. Also for shooting vids you would need a small crew to do it properly and editing is time consuming unless you pay for it.

So basically you need dosh and understand time stands still for no one.

123shooter

gunny123 wrote: »

To be honest i gave up buying papers and magazines years ago. I am into old motorcycles and used to buy all the monthly magazines, but after a few years i found i was reading the same articles, slightly changed, maybe with different photos.

With the shooting magazines, i found i was mostly reading "reviews" of firearms or products, and realised i was paying for the privilage of reading fawning adverts for products i didn't really want to buy.

Papers ? Hmmmmm, well most irish papers are now owned by voldemort, and i certainly don't want to read anything he has anything to do with.

The web and blogs have killed the print media, especially in the realm of sports or pastimes.

Irish media is so biased and left in spins anti clockwise. I wouldnt believe them if they told me it was raining...........yesterday.

123shooter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

But my thoughts on this go to the more elderly generation that isn't very computer literate, or just plain set in their ways and as in many around here, or are still stuck out in rural Ireland with dial-up.

Everything on the internet is available on their tele if they update so all is there for everybody now.

If they can operate their satellite tv channels they can do same for internet favorites.

Grizzly 45

123shooter wrote: »

Everything on the internet is available on their tele if they update so all is there for everybody now.

If they can operate their satellite tv channels they can do same for internet favorites.

I know..Called being a stubborn old goat!!!Would swear my aul wan couldn't operate the TV remote, yet she can text, and work the net just fine...when she wants to.:rolleyes:

Sparks

123shooter wrote: »

Even this forum is well past it's sell by date because time moves on and peoples attitudes and habits change.

Yup, facebook seems to have spun up a lot in the last decade and eaten a lot of traffic. Including to the boards page :P

Mind you, I'm happy with what the forum here did to get people actually talking about the sport more openly and using the net instead of being mushrooms. I'm not terribly worried about its traffic levels either - we're still the largest Irish shooting forum and the numbers are not as dead as you're saying they are. For any kind of complicated posts, the format of these kind of sites is still better than on sites like facebook.

Plus, nobody's been sued for seventy grand for what they said on here yet :P

If it wasn't for notifications of posts bringing in visits this forum and others would have disappeared with the rest of them 5 years ago.

That's about as doubtful as AGS's firearms figures

Another 5 years and there you go and Sparks will be spending more time in his shed.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

So basically you need dosh and understand time stands still for no one.

...and you'd very quickly learn that in this sport when the money comes out, which is a rare thing indeed, certain other things come out as well. From the woodwork. And from under rocks. And pretty soon your life is a hassle...

123shooter wrote: »

Irish media is so biased and left in spins anti clockwise. I wouldnt believe them if they told me it was raining...........yesterday.

I'd agree with you about the amount of bias, but frankly it looks pretty right-wing to me from over here in tree-hugger land, what with the Bishops saying it's better to get cancer than get a vaccine, the Times printing actual nazis verbatim without comment in the nonfiction section, and things like automatic facial recognition systems being promoted like the Next Big Thing while things like the water protestors being acquitted to a man because of Garda perjury get remarkably little coverage.

123shooter

No not a bad thing Sparks........more woodwork projects.:)

Sparks

...and more time with family, less legal threats because someone I've never heard of said something that turned out to be true but embarrassing to someone with too much time on their hands, more time in the lab, less things distracting from work, and so on.

And so long as we don't see, for example, certain old hands using SLAPP cases to try to shut down discussion on other boards or getting everyone to use their sites and then censoring them like China was a model of free speech to aspire to, or any of the other things that were actually tried in the last decade or so, then the aim of setting this place up would have been achieved and exceeded.

And it'll still be here anyway, because a lot of people still like it.

123shooter

Sparks wrote: »

...and more time with family, less legal threats because someone I've never heard of said something that turned out to be true but embarrassing to someone with too much time on their hands, more time in the lab, less things distracting from work, and so on.

And so long as we don't see, for example, certain old hands using SLAPP cases to try to shut down discussion on other boards or getting everyone to use their sites and then censoring them like China was a model of free speech to aspire to, or any of the other things that were actually tried in the last decade or so, then the aim of setting this place up would have been achieved and exceeded.

And it'll still be here anyway, because a lot of people still like it.

I thought you were just an unpaid Mod here.....didnt realise:o:o

Regards interweb I think they are trying to censor it anyway.

Sparks

That's what being an unpaid mod here meant
"unpaid" not being the same as "hassle free"

Cass

123shooter wrote: »

Even this forum is well past it's sell by date because time moves on and peoples attitudes and habits change. If it wasn't for notifications of posts bringing in visits this forum and others would have disappeared with the rest of them 5 years ago. Another 5 years and there you go and Sparks will be spending more time in his shed.

All discussion forums experience surges especially shooting related ones. They ebb and flow based on seasons and of course participation. Facebook has taken more than the Lion's share, but it is not the be all and end all of discussion.

Facebook has stricter rules regarding shooting, hunting, and firearms than any forum including Boards. It should also be very evident from a recent court case that the "freedom of speech" myth is no more available on Facebook than it is here, the only difference being we haven't been the subject of such a case :cool:. Irish laws are strict and the laws brought in from 2011 regarding copyright, as Sparks eluded to above, have not only curtailed discussion, but in some cases eliminated it. Again as the court case showed it's not a case of going elsewhere as you're no more free there than here to say what you like.

That is a consequence of law, not censorship.

One thing that i get a, and i hazard to use the term, giggle from is how people "learn" its not all roses and unicorns. Members here have set up their own sites and others have set up their own Facebook groups. They are good and discussion is brisk sometimes and lackluster other times. However as i've watched these groups and sites develop i've noticed the lads running them implementing rules that a few months or years back they might have said were unfair here or other forums.

The reason is they learn the hard way that freedom of speech is an American, only, concept and in the real world speaking your mind in written form has consequences. I've seen groups and sites shut down, fined, and go from busy to dead once they impose a set of rules and guidelines that their members must adhere to.

Facebook doesn't allow the selling of firearms or paraphernalia. While a forum doesn't survive solely on selling or buying of items the list of other sites including Facebook that are now banning what they don't like for political reasons is increasing. PayPal, some banking institutions and other businesses like Mastercard (IIRC) are now not doing business with companies or people that deal in or have any business with firearms.

They also heavily censor pictures, discussion, and content they deem inappropriate such as shot animals, firearms, and opinions. Ask some of the members here about it. Ask how many times they have been banned/suspended for speaking their mind or posting something that here or any other forum would be "the norm".

Lastly forums such as Boards have a degree of safety to them. The people on them are semi known quantity. The level of trolls, and general whingers on Facebook is a thousand times that of discussion forums. While anyone is free to join the Moderators, Cat Mods, and Admins are dedicated to the forum and will uphold your ability, dare i say right, to discuss any practice regardless of what they think about it personally (you don't see the site admins that are vegans shutting down the hunting pictures thread). We'll step in and ban trolls, we won't censor your views based on political reasons (but we might argue till the cows come about it), and you can sell your firearms and gear for FREE.

So while forums might be in decline overall i'd argue against your point that they are a thing of the past, and no matter on how small a scale they will always be here.

gunny123

Cass wrote: »

Facebook has stricter rules regarding shooting, hunting, and firearms than any forum including Boards. It should also be very evident from a recent court case that the "freedom of speech" myth is no more available on Facebook than it is here,
Facebook doesn't allow the selling of firearms or paraphernalia. While a forum doesn't survive solely on selling or buying of items the list of other sites including Facebook that are now banning what they don't like for political reasons is increasing. PayPal, some banking institutions and other businesses like Mastercard (IIRC) are now not doing business with companies or people that deal in or have any business with firearms.

They also heavily censor pictures, discussion, and content they deem inappropriate such as shot animals, firearms, and opinions. Ask some of the members here about it. Ask how many times they have been banned/suspended for speaking their mind or posting something that here or any other forum would be "the norm".

Facebook was gotten at by the anti-gun brigade years ago, that probably suited Mark Zuckerberg who is anti-gun, but who has 16 armed bodyguards paid for by by Facebook.

This hyprocrisy seems to be a recurring theme with the anti-gun/shooting brigade in the Usa, Dianne Feinstein the Californian senator doesn't want people owning guns, but has an armed bodyguard and a concealed carry permit. New york mayor Michael Bloomberg who is also anti-gun has 12 armed bodyguards.

So thats the social media way, tell everyone gun ownership is bad and ban shooting/firearm content from their sites while surrounded by your own private, armed navy seal team :rolleyes:.

Cass

gunny123 wrote: »

Facebook was gotten at by the anti-gun brigade years ago, that probably suited Mark Zuckerberg who is anti-gun, but who has 16 armed bodyguards paid for by by Facebook.

The odd part is he claims he loves hunting.

This hyprocrisy seems to be a recurring theme with the anti-gun/shooting brigade in the Usa, Dianne Feinstein the Californian senator doesn't want people owning guns, but has an armed bodyguard and a concealed carry permit. New york mayor Michael Bloomberg who is also anti-gun has 12 armed bodyguards.

Don't want to derail the thread with discussion of political ideologies but California is a lost cause and some other states are trying to follow suit.

So thats the social media way, tell everyone gun ownership is bad and ban shooting/firearm content from their sites while surrounded by your own private, armed navy seal team :rolleyes:.

I doubt yer man Mark has any interaction with the daily goings on with Facebook, and i understand the need to ban firearm sales as it's worldwide and some states don't allow private sales while others do. Same with varying countries so best to ban it to prevent any problems.

However it's like the refugee issue. All the celebs saying we should have no borders but they are surrounded by 15 ft high walls, gates, and armed security. If it should be all hold hands with lollipops & rainbows then let them take in a few hundred and we'll talk.

Birdnuts

Nekarsulm wrote: »

I see a notice in the latest issue that the magazines future is in doubt.
The editor/publisher is retiring, and unless a new one is found, publication will cease.

On a side note, I see my letter re. The Sports Coalition has not yet been published, 3 months after it was received.
Not "On message" enough, I suspect!

I notice in the latest issue(Nov) they are stopping all subscriptions with the magazine due to end by the end of the year if a new owner cannot be found - not looking good:(

Half-cocked

I know we tend to slag of ISD and whinge about the content (or should I say lack of content?), but I suspect we'll miss it when it's gone.

Grizzly 45

Proably the day of the ISD i in its paper format is gone, nothing to say it couldn't be revamped and made a cyber publication..Would drop costs of slinging ink on paper considerably.

Cal Ward

[font=Arial","sans-serif]It's a tough job to manage/edit/publish a magazine, attract advertising and collect money from advertisers and get good writers and Eric Parkes has done a great job for over 20 years.  I wrote (part-time, I’m now retired from my job teaching IT) for the Digest for 17 years because I loved meeting shooters and dealers and going places and taking photos and doing research and writing about it.  I made good friends and had a lot of fun and it would be very sad if the Irish Shooter lost the only publication that was prepared to fight his corner but the fact is the Internet is hurting all the specialist publications and even the big newspapers.  I've written my last article saying goodbye and thanks to my readers and I'll send it in this weekend.  I'll miss the Digest but I am thoroughly disillusioned with the direction Irish shooting has taken. Commercial poaching, section 42's out of control, wildlife disappearing, political infighting, power struggles, lawsuits, clever boys looking for new ways to screw money out of the shooter and shooting and everyone an expert and no-one keeping an eye on the ball and all this instead of taking on the guards and the government who are determined to introduce a gun ban.  Unless we cop ourselves on we could very easily end up regulated out of existence with nothing to shoot, no pistols or high-powered rifles and astronomical fees for membership of clubs and access to ranges and the best of our hunting sold to tourists.  We are sleepwalking towards a cliff-edge.  Will online publications/websites/forums change this insanity?  I hope so but am not sure they will.  [/font]
[font=Arial","sans-serif] Grizzly 45 said kind things about me – thanks.  [/font]

Walter Mittys Brother

Cal, well said BUT your articles were crap and hardly ever relevant to what we do here.

BUT I'll miss them & the Digest all the same.

Grizzly 45

I am thoroughly disillusioned with the direction Irish shooting has taken. Commercial poaching, section 42's out of control, wildlife disappearing, political infighting, power struggles, lawsuits, clever boys looking for new ways to screw money out of the shooter and shooting and everyone an expert and no-one keeping an eye on the ball and all this instead of taking on the guards and the government who are determined to introduce a gun ban. Unless we cop ourselves on we could very easily end up regulated out of existence with nothing to shoot, no pistols or high-powered rifles and astronomical fees for membership of clubs and access to ranges and the best of our hunting sold to tourists. We are sleepwalking towards a cliff-edge

Said a mouthful of a prophecy there Cal.:(

Cal Ward

I've had my gun permits revoked ans/or guns confiscated three times since 1972 and have invoked the ombudsman successfully on three more occasions. I couldn't count the number of clashes with firearms officers and superintendents. When it comes to the guards and the doj and politicians of all hues I have no illusions. What amazes me is that many shooters still talk as if they are dealing with honourable people. Cool is no defence against the antis. The last failed attempt at a ban was a wake-up call.

Grizzly 45

You must be the first, and the only person who got the Ombudsman to actively look at a firearms case.: eek:
I have by now two dozen people and their cases, including myself and my mother that have been blatantly ignored or brushed aside by the Ombudsman of any Garda wrongdoing.

Yes, it is still the old "our betters " mentality here. The same attitude that allows Garda corruption, paedophile priests and crooked councillors and TD's and in our case shifty characters to run our organisations.
Honour, with the Gardai?....Novel concept.

Cal Ward

I should qualify what I meant by "successfully". I didnt get or need favourable rulings from the ombudsman but I got what they refused to give me in the first instance. In other words I got my gun permit, export permit or whatever after a bit of negotiating. When they realised I was hopping mad and serious they were ok about it.