2nd licence - HMR and a .22

Croohur

Hi all,
I was hoping you could clear up a question(s) I have! I have a .17 HMR at home that I use on the farm for rabbits etc. Its a great rifle and very happy with it.
The only issue is this is my first rifle and I am still learning. As you all know HMR ammo is expensive, ridiculously so when compared to .22 ammo. So, I am thinking of getting a .22 for a couple of reasons.

First is so I can buy cheaper ammo and be able to practice a bit more on improving how I shoot. Every time I shoot a HMR round off I hear a cash register till ringing.

Secondly, my two kids 9 and 8 are both expressing an interest in learning to shoot. The HMR is heavy with the scope and sound mod on, not suitable for them to learn on. I was thinking of getting a smaller .22 with iron sights, use that to teach the kids and then be able to put a light scope on it and be able to use it myself when just walking the fields, or have in the jeep, not specifically out early doors to bag some rabbits.

So! My question is, do I just apply for the .22? Its very similar in caliber to the .22. What reasons do I give? Do I mention teaching the kids to shoot with it as a reason for purchasing or say nothing? Is it legal to teach a child to shoot on a farm if they are under 14?
I have been reading with interest the Kafkaesque thread on target shooting when not on a range thread which got me thinking about this.
Looking back this is actually a lot of questions:rolleyes: but any opinions would be welcome.

Cass

Croohur wrote: »

As you all know HMR ammo is expensive,

Wait till you go up in caliber. It'll make your eyes water. Over €50 for 20 rounds of certain ammo.

Secondly, my two kids 9 and 8 are both expressing an interest in learning to shoot. The HMR is heavy with the scope and sound mod on, not suitable for them to learn on. I was thinking of getting a smaller .22 with iron sights, use that to teach the kids and then be able to put a light scope on it and be able to use it myself when just walking the fields, or have in the jeep, not specifically out early doors to bag some rabbits.

For the purposes of the forum, it's illegal for anyone under 14 to have in their possession or use a firearm outside of an authorised range. Only when they turn 14 and get a training license can they fire a gun under your supervision.

So! My question is, do I just apply for the .22?

Yes. An absolutely brilliant and versatile caliber and frankly it would have been what i'd have recommended as your first rifle over the hmr.

Its very similar in caliber to the .22. What reasons do I give?

You mean similar to the HMR?

Vermin control, quieter, cheaper ammo, more suitable to your shooting needs, etc. IOW whatever the reasons are that you actually want it.

Do I mention teaching the kids to shoot with it as a reason for purchasing or say nothing?

As above, it's illegal.

Is it legal to teach a child to shoot on a farm if they are under 14?

Nope.


When a kid turns 14 you can apply for a training license for them. They are licensed on your gun and can only use it under your direct supervision (IOW they cannot take the gun out on their own). When they turn 16 they can apply for a full license and the training cert will be their competence so no need of courses, etc.

Unfortunately until they hit 14 it's illegal for them to be in possession or use any firearm when on your property. Only place it's legal for them to fire a firearm is on an authorised range.

Luckysasha

Just worth mentioning, some guns have interchangeable barrels available so have a look and see if yours falls in to this category. For instance I have a CZ 455 .22lr but I can purchase a .17hmr barrel and swap it over as and when I need to. Just bear in mind you will still need a .22lr license for the barrel but if this is doable then it shouldn’t cost more than €250 for a separate barrel.

Croohur

Cass wrote: »

Wait till you go up in caliber. It'll make your eyes water. Over €50 for 20 rounds of certain ammo.


For the purposes of the forum, it's illegal for anyone under 14 to have in their possession or use a firearm outside of an authorised range. Only when they turn 14 and get a training license can they fire a gun under your supervision.


Yes. An absolutely brilliant and versatile caliber and frankly it would have been what i'd have recommended as your first rifle over the hmr.

You mean similar to the HMR?

Vermin control, quieter, cheaper ammo, more suitable to your shooting needs, etc. IOW whatever the reasons are that you actually want it.


As above, it's illegal.

Nope.


When a kid turns 14 you can apply for a training license for them. They are licensed on your gun and can only use it under your direct supervision (IOW they cannot take the gun out on their own). When they turn 16 they can apply for a full license and the training cert will be their competence so no need of courses, etc.

Unfortunately until they hit 14 it's illegal for them to be in possession or use any firearm when on your property. Only place it's legal for them to fire a firearm is on an authorised range.

Thanks for that Cass, thats what I suspected, but good to get it confirmed.
As for why I started with the HMR, I am nearly 40 and wear glasses, I read everywhere that the HMR was very accurate and I thought that if I could start with an accurate caliber and gun (CZ 455) then anything going wrong would be mainly up to me and I could figure it out and rectify the issue.
And it is very accurate, BUT if I had to do it again I would have gone with a .22 straight off the bat. Thats only with a few months knowledge with a rifle under my belt. Rounds are much cheaper so easier to practice. Which, if you have a good rifle that shoots well means that it is the shooter needs to equal the rifle. Also most of the shots I take are at rabbits at about 60-80 yards, well, well inside what a good .22 can handle. I thought that I would be shooting at slightly longer distances, but once you are out actually trying to be quiet obviously I have found it easier to get closer!:rolleyes:

While I disagree with what the government has decided in this matter in respect to how old they think kids should be before they can shoot, if thats the law then thats the end of that.
Its not worth the hassle or the risk, I will take them to an authorised target range.
Theres no point teaching the kids on the farm on the sly and relying on them to say nothing to their schoolfriends about using a rifle. Wouldnt be fair on them to ask them to do that. All you need is one "concerned" parent to dob you in.

Croohur

Luckysasha wrote: »

Just worth mentioning, some guns have interchangeable barrels available so have a look and see if yours falls in to this category. For instance I have a CZ 455 .22lr but I can purchase a .17hmr barrel and swap it over as and when I need to. Just bear in mind you will still need a .22lr license for the barrel but if this is doable then it shouldn’t cost more than €250 for a separate barrel.

I have a CZ 455, well one of the Cogswell and Harrison CZ's. So I could do that, but I was hoping to get iron sights on the barrel, so I think you are looking at Lux or Trainer barrels and I think I would be just better off getting a smaller 2nd hand .22.

Luckysasha

Try ardee sports. They are the owner / distributors of cogswell and Harrison. I know the last time I was in their gun room they had lots of variants of the Cz. Might be worth a try

Croohur

Luckysasha wrote: »

Try ardee sports. They are the owner / distributors of cogswell and Harrison. I know the last time I was in their gun room they had lots of variants of the Cz. Might be worth a try

Thats a good idea, thanks

Cass

Croohur wrote: »

As for why I started with the HMR, I am nearly 40 and wear glasses, I read everywhere that the HMR was very accurate and I thought that if I could start with an accurate caliber and gun (CZ 455) then anything going wrong would be mainly up to me and I could figure it out and rectify the issue.

Nothing wrong with the HMR at all, i had two. My point about recommending a 22 was based on what you said in this post/thread. IOW if you were on here now, looking for opinions on a rifle, didn't own the HMR and gave the above info i'd be recommending a 22lr.

You can either keep the HMR and buy a 22, sell the HMR and buy a 22 or trade it against a 22. So you have options. the HMRs only downfall, for me, is the noise. If it were quieter it would be the best all round rimfire gun. The ammo price doesn't bother me as i'm used to paying a lot more for ammo for other rifles, and the 22lr is limited in ability and range. However for what you've said it would be a perfect second rifle.

While I disagree with what the government has decided in this matter in respect to how old they think kids should be before they can shoot, if thats the law then thats the end of that.
Its not worth the hassle or the risk, I will take them to an authorised target range.
Theres no point teaching the kids on the farm on the sly and relying on them to say nothing to their schoolfriends about using a rifle. Wouldnt be fair on them to ask them to do that. All you need is one "concerned" parent to dob you in.

Please understand where i'm coming from with my post above. This is an open forum and i'm laying out what the law says. I am not the internet police nor am i the real police. What you do after what i've said is entirely your business.

However to avoid any pitfalls when applying for new 22lr, i thought it best to inform of what the laws says is legal and what is not.

Croohur

Cass wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the HMR at all, i had two. My point about recommending a 22 was based on what you said in this post/thread. IOW if you were on here now, looking for opinions on a rifle, didn't own the HMR and gave the above info i'd be recommending a 22lr.

You can either keep the HMR and buy a 22, sell the HMR and buy a 22 or trade it against a 22. So you have options. the HMRs only downfall, for me, is the noise. If it were quieter it would be the best all round rimfire gun. The ammo price doesn't bother me as i'm used to paying a lot more for ammo for other rifles, and the 22lr is limited in ability and range. However for what you've said it would be a perfect second rifle.

Please understand where i'm coming from with my post above. This is an open forum and i'm laying out what the law says. I am not the internet police nor am i the real police. What you do after what i've said is entirely your business.

However to avoid any pitfalls when applying for new 22lr, i thought it best to inform of what the laws says is legal and what is not.

Don't worry Cass, I did notice when you said "
For the purposes of the forum"!
Not worried about the Gardai as much as the missus. The actual Law.

Croohur

Definitely keeping the hmr, absolutely no way I am letting that one go. So it will just have to be a 22 and a second licence, a trip or two to the range to keep it all kosher and everyone wins....

hedzball

Croohur wrote: »

Hi all,
As you all know HMR ammo is expensive, ridiculously so when compared to .22 ammo. So, I am thinking of getting a .22 for a couple of reasons.


Secondly, my two kids 9 and 8 are both expressing an interest in learning to shoot.

Tell yer kids that the rabbit is the biggest they can shoot til they pay their own wages! If they get a sniff of a fox or deer its 2e a round + :pac::pac:

Dont worry about the iron sights.. its something they wont use tbh .. weight of a scope is negligible.Let them shoot the .22 off a bipod.. let them actually hit what they are aiming at.. nothing loses a kids interest quicker than frustration.. free handing is an art.

get a second barrel for your 455 an go from there!

Kran

Just to throw this in the ring, have you considered an air rifle? I've recently bought a WH97 and I absolutely love it and I've killed more grey crows and magpies with it than my .22lr and Shotgun combined. It's more than capable to take out rabbits too. It's range is only about 50 yards but it's crazy accurate at its zero. Check out Hunters vermin on YouTube, he uses the exact same gun in his spring air rifle video. It's super cheap shooting too at about €10 a tin of 500 pellets. I've a little fella too and it will be his first gun when he comes of age, if I can bear to part with it that is!