shoplifting food

lazybones32

Steviesol wrote: »

I take it you have never been in that position. ? V D P are great, but it can take a week to get food vouchers off them. That's not much help to your hungry kids today, so I disagree with your first sentance.

Feel free to disagree with all of it, if you want. Thing is, if a parent sees food supplies diminishing and knows they'll be gone in 2-3 days, there's no point in waiting until it is gone before trying to replenish it. Stop trying to find fault with the charitable systems put in place by organisations: they are not the ones responsible for putting food on the table or managing household finances. And st v d p will write a cheque on the spot; no questions asked. 2 signatories required.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

Yep, no doubt that all goes on too

i dunno about people thinking the welfare payment system is as generous as such a lot of people think, and it always seems to be a lot of the time that people who are in work think the benefits system is always generous one. - maybe its more generous than the UK benefits system, I dunno I havent particularly looked into it.

No one should go hungry whether it be people in full time employment or on the dole/benefits .. but they do. thats why the likes of the food cloud and ST V De paul exist i suppose for that reason

But they shouldn't. 188 euro a week or whatever it is the dole is is plenty to feed yourself for the week on. More if there's kids. Children's allowance. FIS. Whatever else they give you. You can buy a weeks food in aldi or Lidl for 1 I'm sure for 20 or 30 euro. So again, its approx 26 euro per day they have to live on, that's plenty considering those that destitute will be receiving heavily subsidised accommodation etc

123shooter

LexieOnRale wrote: »

. You can buy a weeks food in aldi or Lidl for 1 I'm sure for 20 or 30 euro. So again, its approx 26 euro per day they have to live on, that's plenty considering those that destitute will be receiving heavily subsidised accommodation etc

Suppose you can if you live on beans on toast.

pilly

LexieOnRale wrote:

But they shouldn't. 188 euro a week or whatever it is the dole is is plenty to feed yourself for the week on. More if there's kids. Children's allowance. FIS. Whatever else they give you. You can buy a weeks food in aldi or Lidl for 1 I'm sure for 20 or 30 euro. So again, its approx 26 euro per day they have to live on, that's plenty considering those that destitute will be receiving heavily subsidised accommodation etc

Because food is the only thing people on the dole need to buy?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

pilly wrote: »

Because food is the only thing people on the dole need to buy?

Well I'd presume if your children need feeding then food would take priority over everything else, yes.

wakka12

There are social safety nets in place in Ireland that mean theres absolutely no excuse to be forced to steal food in order feed yourself or chidlren. Even if homeless, volunteers give plenty of food.
But if we were living in a poor country, I would have no problem with somebody stealing food if they had to. Wouldnt snitch

10000maniacs

I reckon Michael got a bad deal for stealing Trevelyan's corn.
It was touch and go that his young might never see the morn.

Andy From Sligo

on the other side of the coin, you are what you eat - if you havent much money to spend on food in the first place your more than likely going to buy take-aways, cheap un-nutritional food, foods full of sugar and salt.

What maybe the welfare should be looking for is not only feeding people who are hungry but also looking at what money you are giving them to feed themselves with decent food. decent joints of meat etc / organic vegetables and fruit - this will all help people better than eating cheap crap! - or what are we a society to say the people on benefits are of a lower class and dont deserve the proper food that people with a job and good wages could afford because they dont work for it?

FishOnABike

If money was tight, takeaways are the last thing I'd spend money on. It's far cheaper to prepare home cooked meals from fresh or packaged basic ingredients than it is to pay for a less healthy takeaway.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

on the other side of the coin, you are what you eat - if you havent much money to spend on food in the first place your more than likely going to buy take-aways, cheap un-nutritional food, foods full of sugar and salt.

What maybe the welfare should be looking for is not only feeding people who are hungry but also looking at what money you are giving them to feed themselves with decent food. decent joints of meat etc / organic vegetables and fruit - this will all help people better than eating cheap crap! - or what are we a society to say the people on benefits are of a lower class and dont deserve the proper food that people with a job and good wages could afford because they dont work for it?

What are you on about? A takeaway especially for a family costs a lot more than buying ingredients and cooking at home.

the purple tin

We may have one of the highest levels of benefits in Europe but if one partner is taking all the income for drink or gambling or whatever and leaving the other partner and kids hungry and cold, that won't make any difference.

lazybones32

the purple tin wrote: »

We may have one of the highest levels of benefits in Europe but if one partner is taking all the income for drink or gambling or whatever and leaving the other partner and kids hungry and cold, that won't make any difference.

Alcoholics need to eat too...

iamwhoiam

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

on the other side of the coin, you are what you eat - if you havent much money to spend on food in the first place your more than likely going to buy take-aways, cheap un-nutritional food, foods full of sugar and salt.

What maybe the welfare should be looking for is not only feeding people who are hungry but also looking at what money you are giving them to feed themselves with decent food. decent joints of meat etc / organic vegetables and fruit - this will all help people better than eating cheap crap! - or what are we a society to say the people on benefits are of a lower class and dont deserve the proper food that people with a job and good wages could afford because they dont work for it?

In that case what welfare should be looking at is education in budgeting and buying decent food .Then for the price of a takeaway to feed a family you could get at very least three days worth of food in Lidl or Aldi . Veg and fruit are on offer in Lidl every day and I could easily feed my family for about 4 or 5 days for the price of a takeaway for five people

Rubberchikken

Stealing is stealing. Shoplifting is stealing. Morally and legally wrong.

I don't think there's any excuse for anyone to steal food when the govt agencies and charities are there.
If someone is spending their money on drugs drink whatever then maybe not having a kid or having the kid removed might be the way to go.

Andy From Sligo

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Stealing is stealing. Shoplifting is stealing. Morally and legally wrong.

I don't think there's any excuse for anyone to steal food when the govt agencies and charities are there.
If someone is spending their money on drugs drink whatever then maybe not having a kid or having the kid removed might be the way to go.

very harsh that - and with putting children into care you are creating another set of problems

Rubberchikken

Rubberchikken wrote: »

If someone is spending their money on drugs drink whatever then maybe not having a kid or having the kid removed might be the way to go.

It's not a very child-centric approach. Children shouldn't be consigned to care just because their parents are thieves, or take drink or drugs. The only time children should be put into care is where there is abuse or neglect, or the crimes are so great that jail is the only option for the parent/s.

I believe some farmers markets in the USA now take welfare vouchers, which seems like a great scheme. The children get access to healthy, fresh food, not just takeaways or processed food.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers%27_Market_Nutrition_Program_/_Senior_Farmers%27_Market_Nutrition_Program

Andy From Sligo

i think what people are saying about buying ingredients and cooking their own meals instead of buying fast food or ready made microwave meals is that the way i look at it is that some might already be very down about being on benefits and not being able to find a job and might not really feel like getting all the raw ingredients and cooking from scratch - or might be busy with a family and not have time to cook from scratch so its a combination of cant be bothered to cook/not enough time to cook ... and would be easier and not much more expensive to get some fast food just around the corner

- not maybe the most sensible thing to do in some peoples eyes (especially if you like, are pretty decent in cooking) but thats what goes on in real life with a lot of people/families on benefit.

It does not take a lot to see that the money people on a low income will spend on food/fruit and veg is considerably less and not necessarily good for them or the best for them . cheap fruit and vegetables pumped full of god knows what chemicals , instead of organic fruit and veg cheap mince not very lean and full of fat, meat pumped with water, frozen items loosing their taste/nutrition when frozen - so although fast food full of salt and not good for you - I am not that convinced with the fruit and vegetables and meat up the cheapest end of the scale is not that much better for you either. That's what I think.

of course the test is to offer a family dinners for a month of mass produced fruit and veg, cheap meat and frozen stuff for a month and then swap it for some decent (more expensive) organic fruit and veg and expensive pieces of meat and fish and i bet people will feel better and healthier in themselves for the expensive stuff.

Mrs OBumble

There are some scenarios involving older people and complex pension entitlements (due to not having paid enough stamps etc) which can see people receiving not nearly enough to live on. Some have other income sources, for sure, but there are some in council housing who I would be pretty sure don't have any other income. And others trapped in poor quality homes which they own but cannot afford to fix.

For some of these, a custodial sentence would probably see them better cared for than they are now. Unlikely to get it, from what I've seen.

the_pen_turner

LexieOnRale wrote: »

But they shouldn't. 188 euro a week or whatever it is the dole is is plenty to feed yourself for the week on. More if there's kids. Children's allowance. FIS. Whatever else they give you. You can buy a weeks food in aldi or Lidl for 1 I'm sure for 20 or 30 euro. So again, its approx 26 euro per day they have to live on, that's plenty considering those that destitute will be receiving heavily subsidised accommodation etc

I have to agree entirely.
I often get a dinner in the town house deli in thurles. €8.50. 10 euro in other restaurants if you sit down.

how can you not feed yourself for that a day. 70 euro a week for a good dinner. combine that with some more basic cheaper food like sandwiches etc then you could easily feed yourself for 100-120 a week and thrive on it.
that would still leave 73-93 euro for other costs

if they haven't enough money to feed them selves it is their own fault for wasting it or their is something seriously wrong at home

there is no excuse for shop lifting. throw the book at them

freshpopcorn

One thing I have to say is I find sometimes people online have no idea how poor some families can be. If you speak to school teachers they can often tell you the position that some kids might be in coming to school without a lunch or very little, shabby uniforms, etc and the kids know they are different to there classmates. This happens in rural and urban Ireland.
I think lots of slagged of mothers with lots of kids at some stage and how good they have it but in my experience these families never have it great. I never really see these families with loads of luxuries. The only one's who I know who seem to have it good are generally involved in criminality or there parents/inlaws pay the sky bill etc.
People are stressed and under pressure from various things. Some are afraid to cook because they can't afford the bill.

Andy From Sligo

there seems to be a lot of judging going on when people say "they should easily be able to feed themselves on 188 per week" without people knowing their particular circumstances or what else they have to pay out on - generalising I call it, maybe some people as well by people who have never ever been on benefits ever /survive on handouts/benefits. - can never remember that saying but its something about "walk in my shoes for a day.."

The majority of people should imagine absolutely hate being on benefits. It must be degrading for loads, depressing, embarrassing, ridiculing not being able to get by without handouts - what kind of bloody life that is / would be (notice I am talking about genuine people who are on benefits who would jump at the chance of a job , not these ones who sit on their fat arse all day with no intention of finding a job, or the ones that milk the benefit system) dont you feel at least any bit of sympathy for your fellow human being ? - even a tiny bit? especially if they cannot keep warm in the winter or afford to feed themselves or their kids?

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

No because if I didn't look for work or take a job or earn a living I would be also sitting at home with no heating or food. We all make choices in life, we all decide what kind of life we want to live. Anyone can fall on hard times and deserve to be helped back up but I feel no responsibility to create or fund a champagne lifestyle for someone who wouldn't help themselves

TotalReality

LexieOnRale wrote: »

No because if I didn't look for work or take a job or earn a living I would be also sitting at home with no heating or food. We all make choices in life, we all decide what kind of life we want to live. Anyone can fall on hard times and deserve to be helped back up but I feel no responsibility to create or fund a champagne lifestyle for someone who wouldn't help themselves

Nobody on Social Welfare has a champagne lifestyle.

the_pen_turner

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

there seems to be a lot of judging going on when people say "they should easily be able to feed themselves on 188 per week" without people knowing their particular circumstances or what else they have to pay out on - generalising I call it, maybe some people as well by people who have never ever been on benefits ever /survive on handouts/benefits. - can never remember that saying but its something about "walk in my shoes for a day.."

The majority of people should imagine absolutely hate being on benefits. It must be degrading for loads, depressing, embarrassing, ridiculing not being able to get by without handouts - what kind of bloody life that is / would be (notice I am talking about genuine people who are on benefits who would jump at the chance of a job , not these ones who sit on their fat arse all day with no intention of finding a job, or the ones that milk the benefit system) dont you feel at least any bit of sympathy for your fellow human being ? - even a tiny bit? especially if they cannot keep warm in the winter or afford to feed themselves or their kids?

I myself survived for 2 years on 188. a week. I had no problem feeding myself or living a half decent life. its all about prioritising your spending.

TotalReality

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I myself survived for 2 years on 188. a week. I had no problem feeding myself or living a half decent life. its all about prioritising your spending.

Important word you added.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

TotalReality wrote: »

Important word you added.

What do you expect while being state funded? Minimum wage?

freshpopcorn

LexieOnRale wrote: »

No because if I didn't look for work or take a job or earn a living I would be also sitting at home with no heating or food. We all make choices in life, we all decide what kind of life we want to live. Anyone can fall on hard times and deserve to be helped back up but I feel no responsibility to create or fund a champagne lifestyle for someone who wouldn't help themselves

I never really see these families who have brilliant/champagne lifestyles on social welfare. The families who I know who are like this I'd never never be one bit jealous of them.

I'm not directing the next part of my comment at you.
Lots of people on boards seem to be well educated. They had parents who supported them at school. They were sent to school with the correct materials and were given extra help at home if needed. The people I know with these brilliant lifestyles on the dole generally in my experience never had this at home and when they went to school they were sneered at my pupils and teachers and they sort of fall into a poor cycle that can be very hard to get out of!

TotalReality

LexieOnRale wrote: »

What do you expect while being state funded? Minimum wage?

I did agree with the post by thanking it.Relax its only the internet.Your opinion means nothing,as does mine.

Surviving and champagne lifestyles are worlds apart.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I never really see these families who have brilliant/champagne lifestyles on social welfare. The families who I know who are like this I'd never never be one bit jealous of them.

I'm not directing the next part of my comment at you.
Lots of people on boards seem to be well educated. They had parents who supported them at school. They were sent to school with the correct materials and were given extra help at home if needed. The people I know with these brilliant lifestyles on the dole generally in my experience never had this at home and when they went to school they were sneered at my pupils and teachers and they sort of fall into a poor cycle that can be very hard to get out of!

The girls that ended up like that that I knew from school generally made the other girls lives miserable for being stuck up, for being swots, or for being frigid bitches. They had no interest in partaking in school, were disruptive to people trying to learn, intimidating and bullies. They were the girls who talked about sex boyfriends blowjobs taking drugs and drinking. They were usually the ones hanging around the lockers and the bus stops waiting to pounce on whoever was flavour of the week to dislike, taking out their earrings before trying to pull handfuls of the girls hair out. They were usually the ones pregnant very young and now at almost 30 are on their 4th serious relationship with their 4th or 5th child, never having held down a job and claiming OPFP while they wait for the love of their lives outside the local court.

the_pen_turner

TotalReality wrote: »

Important word you added.

yes survived but I wasn't ever hungry .
i wasn't living the high life or anything but i had enough money left over to go places whenever i wanted or buy stuff.
i was even able to save a few pound every week for a rainy day

ironically it was only when i was working for myself that i had money troubles.
not having that safety net is a bitch. there were times that i had to 'look down the back of the couch' for money to get diesel to drive to work all the time being owed money from customers

sometimes its not worth trying to better yourself. i was better off on the dole than being self employed.