Medtronic offering Engineering Jobs for Women Only!!

bfa1509

Medtronic are now offering a return to work program for women engineers who have been out of work for up to 4 years:

https://ie.linkedin.com/jobs/view/414943613

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not one of the most sexist things a company could ever do?

ratracer

Yes, but don't you know that sexism only counts if it's against females....

bfa1509

ratracer wrote: »

Yes, but don't you know that sexism only counts if it's against females....

Ah ok. So it's the same as how racism only applies to blacks?

Diziet

It's a specific program for a specific purpose (which is presumably to reach an under-utilised talent pool). Do you have a problem with graduate programs? They also reach out to a specific talent pool.

Given the vast difficulty in employment for women who have been out of the workforce, this is creating equality, not the reverse.

bobbysands81

Diziet wrote: »

It's a specific program for a specific purpose (which is presumably to reach an under-utilised talent pool). Do you have a problem with graduate programs? They also reach out to a specific talent pool.

Given the vast difficulty in employment for women who have been out of the workforce, this is creating equality, not the reverse.

Positive discrimination is still discrimination.

Preventing someone from applying for a job because of their sex is sexism, regardless of the reasons behind it.

bfa1509

Diziet wrote: »

It's a specific program for a specific purpose (which is presumably to reach an under-utilised talent pool). Do you have a problem with graduate programs? They also reach out to a specific talent pool.

Given the vast difficulty in employment for women who have been out of the workforce, this is creating equality, not the reverse.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a while. I have no problem with Graduate programs as they aim to tackle youth unemployment. This job on the other hand discriminates based on gender. How is this ok?

Also, since when have women had more difficulty than men getting back into the workforce? Women are almost at full employment in ireland (6%) where as 1 in 5 men are unemployed. How come they don't introduce a return to employment program for men in Nursing and Teaching, the careers in which women overwhelmingly dominate?

Adamocovic

It's a bit bizarre seeing it but, as a male Engineer I'm not offended by it at all.

Engineering is a predominately male profession, so it appears they are doing this create more diversity in the workplace and possibly promote it to more women who are thinking of studying it. Something I'm all for. I'm sure in other industries that are more female dominated there are postings for positions looking for male applicants only (Nursing springs to mind).

I will admit that I find the whole advert a bit odd. Looking for people who have specifically been out of work for a certain amount of time. Perhaps it's some sort of program they have but honestly I don't know much about it.

Anyway, not going to feign some outrage over it.

bfa1509

Adamocovic wrote: »

It's a bit bizarre seeing it but, as a male Engineer I'm not offended by it at all.

Engineering is a predominately male profession, so it appears they are doing this create more diversity in the workplace and possibly promote it to more women who are thinking of studying it. Something I'm all for. I'm sure in other industries that are more female dominated there are postings for positions looking for male applicants only (Nursing springs to mind).

I will admit that I find the whole advert a bit odd. Looking for people who have specifically been out of work for a certain amount of time. Perhaps it's some sort of program they have but honestly I don't know much about it.

Anyway, not going to feign some outrage over it.

The reason I am annoyed is because I work as an engineer in galway. I found it hard to find work at the start. I am now working in an engineering company in which the majority of employees are women (60%).

grogi

bfa1509 wrote: »

This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a while. I have no problem with Graduate programs as they aim to tackle youth unemployment.

So they by definition support age discrimination

grogi

bfa1509 wrote: »

This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard in a while. I have no problem with Graduate programs as they aim to tackle youth unemployment. This job on the other hand discriminates based on gender. How is this ok?

Also, since when have women had more difficulty than men getting back into the workforce? Women are almost at full employment in ireland (6%) where as 1 in 5 men are unemployed. How come they don't introduce a return to employment program for men in Nursing and Teaching, the careers in which women overwhelmingly dominate?

I strongly disagree. You are cherry picking facts, but the whole problem is much bigger.

First of all, a majority of non-working women in Ireland are not classified as unemployed. They stay at home. But not by choice, but because necessity. It is cheaper to do so when you have children - childcare et al costs are bigger than the typical salary. What's more, there is a horrendous gender bias when it comes to salaries, so it often is a natural choice for a woman, not a man, to do so.

Secondly, when she wants to go back - which is when kids go to school, so after 4-5 years - a mother with kids is always considered last. There is a higher probability she will need to take a day off because of the kids (men in general just tend to push that onto the women).


Full disclaimer: I am a man pig.

bfa1509

grogi wrote: »

So they by definition support age discrimination

Hehe, good point! However, youth unemployment is bad for the oldies too!!

dudara

Women have a really hard time coming back into the workplace after taking many years out to raise their kids. In a round of interviews , the mom trying to get back to work may often be considered bottom of the pile. I've interviewed women in this situation in the past and they can be so worried / nervous about finding / getting back to work. I think it's a worthwhile initiative.

Mr.H

If a qualified person can't apply for the job because of their gender, it is sexist.

All this positive sexism is a load of crap. I am a man. Does that mean I have to apologise for every scumbag who ever insulted a woman?

If I am qualified for the job why can't I apply for it?

Sexism against men exists. But nobody cares because "sure the lads are grand".

Mr.H

dudara wrote:

Women have a really hard time coming back into the workplace after taking many years out to raise their kids. In a round of interviews , the mom trying to get back to work may often be considered bottom of the pile. I've interviewed women in this situation in the past and they can be so worried / nervous about finding / getting back to work. I think it's a worthwhile initiative.

Men also have a hard time coming back into work after the recession.

Regardless of your gender you should be looked at equally. These jobs are not.

In a time when jobs are scarce we should not allow sexism

anto77

Maybe Medtronic are looking to average down on their wage bill

grogi

bfa1509 wrote: »

Hehe, good point! However, youth unemployment is bad for the oldies too!!

And women unemployment is equally bad for man.

dudara

Everyone had a hard time coming back after the recession. That wasn't unique to men or women.

It's an unfortunate truth but women coming back to work after taking time out for family will not be viewed in the same light as a man coming back to work. I wish we could all think it was equal but it's not.

bfa1509

grogi wrote: »

And women unemployment is equally bad for man.

And man unemployment is worse for man

server down

dudara wrote: »

Everyone had a hard time coming back after the recession. That wasn't unique to men or women.

It's an unfortunate truth but women coming back to work after taking time out for family will not be viewed in the same light as a man coming back to work. I wish we could all think it was equal but it's not.

Where is the evidence of that? By the way the last recession affected men more than women.

I don't think positive discrimination is legal in Ireland. Some male who wants a quick payoff should apply.

djPSB

Diziet wrote: »

It's a specific program for a specific purpose (which is presumably to reach an under-utilised talent pool). Do you have a problem with graduate programs? They also reach out to a specific talent pool.

Given the vast difficulty in employment for women who have been out of the workforce, this is creating equality, not the reverse.

A graduate programme is designed to target a cohort that have little experience and generally remuneration is quite low starting off.

The programme above discriminates against men. I really don't see why any company would specify gender requirements, the best person should get the job regardless of gender.

Victor

bfa1509 wrote: »

Also, since when have women had more difficulty than men getting back into the workforce? Women are almost at full employment in ireland (6%) where as 1 in 5 men are unemployed.

Liar.

bfa1509 wrote: »

How come they don't introduce a return to employment program for men in Nursing and Teaching, the careers in which women overwhelmingly dominate?

Medtronic don't run schools and hospitals "Medtronic Public Limited Company is a medical device company. Its headquarters are in Dublin, Ireland.[1][3][4][5] Its operational headquarters are in Fridley, Minnesota.[1][6] Medtronic is the world's largest standalone[clarification needed] medical equipment development company.[7]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medtronic

bfa1509 wrote: »

The reason I am annoyed is because I work as an engineer in galway. I found it hard to find work at the start. I am now working in an engineering company in which the majority of employees are women (60%).

Are 60% of the engineers and management women?

PCeeeee

Is gender not one of the nine grounds?

Donal55

PCeeeee wrote: »

Is gender not one of the nine grounds?

Thinking that myself, might apply and then run to Equality Authority.

SJ.

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Positive discrimination is still discrimination.

Preventing someone from applying for a job because of their sex is sexism, regardless of the reasons behind it.

Discrimination can be a good thing. I discriminate against sex offenders when looking for childminders, for example. Obviously under the Equal Status Act, discrimination on the grounds of gender is illegal, but is that really what's going on here?

It's a great idea to actively seek talent in a pool of potential employees that are often overlooked, and by advertising in this way you encourage them to apply and provide an assurance that they won't be dismissed.

Interesting to see 'unemployment rates' cited above - however they don't accuarately represent workforce participation, as women disproportionately drop out of the labour market to take on caring roles. Ireland has very low levels of female labour market participation by EU standards. I'm sure if it turned out that Medtronic were hiring only women, then their hiring policy could be considered sexist; but looking that this as one of their many ways of recruiting people to engineering roles, I reckon it's more likely to be seeking to address an imbalance in recruiting. I bet most of the engineers they hire are men. If that's true (and it is an assumption), then I'd say it's very unlikely that their hiring policy is discriminatory - in fact I'd say it's likely to be less discriminatory than many other organisations.

Really need lots more information to make a fair judgement - you'd need to know, in relation to the type of jobs advertised, what proportion of people with the requisite qualifications and experience were men. Then you could examine whether the proportion of applicants for jobs matched that. If not, maybe there is something in their advertising process that discourages applications from a particular gender. Then you could look at the proportion of men that were interviewed, and the proportion of men that were hired... That would give a good indication of whether there was discrimination at play.

Policies that seek to correct historical discrimination can be a very good thing. It's typical that people leap on them as being "discriminatory" themselves, but we're not starting from a world of perfect equality, so policies that claim to be perfectly neutral now won't correct past imbalances.

djPSB

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/why-can-t-a-woman-drive-a-crane-the-same-as-a-man-1.3235004?mode=amp

Feminists are very selective when they identify sectors which lack female representation e.g. construction, engineering etc. And yes it would be good to see more females take an interest in this industry.

But they should also note that there are other sectors which are also male dominated and require female representation. Waste collectors are 99.5% male.

server down

SJ. wrote: »

Discrimination can be a good thing. I discriminate against sex offenders when looking for childminders, for example. Obviously under the Equal Status Act, discrimination on the grounds of gender is illegal, but is that really what's going on here?

Yes?

Victor

Donal55 wrote: »

Thinking that myself, might apply and then run to Equality Authority.

Are you an unemployed engineer?

server down

I actually joined here to discuss a situation where a woman was discriminated against because of age, posted in another forum. I am no legal scholar but have done enough courses to know the law, and what is legal and not. That add is illegal. Its possible the over all campaign ( to balance out a gender imbalance internally) is ok, but that ad is illegal.

there is no exemption for positive discrimination in these laws.

Donal55

Victor wrote: »

Are you an unemployed engineer?

Not unemployed but always looking at what's going in case I fancy a change.
Or perhaps maybe I'm just looking for a bit of interview practice.

Either way, as someone else said, it is one of the nine grounds.
What if it was only catholics, Jews, blacks, travellers, gays or only MEN who could apply?

Victor

SJ. wrote: »

Discrimination can be a good thing. I discriminate against sex offenders when looking for childminders, for example. Obviously under the Equal Status Act

It would be the Employment Equality Acts, not the Equal Status Acts.

Victor

Donal55 wrote: »

Not unemployed but always looking at what's going in case I fancy a change.
Or perhaps maybe I'm just looking for a bit of interview practice.

Well,apply for one of these, all available on the Medtronic LinkedIn page: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/search?f_C=1841&f_L=ie%3A0&f_F=eng&locationType=Y&orig=FCTD&trk=jobs_jserp_facet_function

Assoc Process Development Engineer
Configuration Management Supervisor
Engineering
Manufacturing Engineer
Manufacturing Engineer (weekend shift Temp)
Manufacturing Project Engineer (Temp)
ME Technician
P&L Graduate Design & Development Engineer Intern
Principal R&D Engineer
Process Development Engineer
Project Engineer
R&D Program Manager
R-D Engineer
R-D Engineer - Temporary Contract
Return To Work Program for Women in Engineering
Senior Design Assurance Engineering Manager
Senior Design Assurance Engineering Program Manager
Senior Quality Engineer
Senior Quality Manufacturing Engineer
Snr Manufacturing Engineer
Sr Design & Development Engineer
Sr Design Assurance Engineer
Sr Engineering Manager
Sr Equipment Controls Engineer
Sr Manufacturing Engineer
Sr Process Development Engineer
Sr R&D Engineering Manager
Sr R/D Balloon Engineer
Sr R/D Engineer
Sr R/D Engineer (Electronics)
Sr R/D Engineer (Mechanical)
Sr R/D Engineer-Temp - Mechanical
Supervisor - Chemical Distribution Centre
Technician II
Training - Dev Specialist