Amanda Brunker article about Hugh Hefner

Permabear

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Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i still agree with those that say, its our form of capitalism that is the problem, but id also agree with you and others, that capitalism has most definitely improved our standard of living

I think it's more our perception of freedom and liberalism is the problem. There is such a thing as too much freedom IMO, and artificial entities like a corporation should not have rights like a living person.

Nothing wrong with the original idea of capitalism if it's not taken to extremes. Same with socialism. Has plenty of positives if it's used moderately, but humans tend to take all systems to extremes, and then find it really difficult to step back to a combo of both.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it's more our perception of freedom and liberalism is the problem. There is such a thing as too much freedom IMO, and artificial entities like a corporation should not have rights like a living person.

Nothing wrong with the original idea of capitalism if it's not taken to extremes. Same with socialism. Has plenty of positives if it's used moderately, but humans tend to take all systems to extremes, and then find it really difficult to step back to a combo of both.

yea i completely agree about humans having the tendency to take things to extremes. im deeply concerned about our current extremes, its hard to know where it ll bring us, but it currently doesnt look good. im thinking it maybe time to move on from both of these ideologies, but im not sure we know how to do that or what to even move on to.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yea i completely agree about humans having the tendency to take things to extremes. im deeply concerned about our current extremes, its hard to know where it ll bring us, but it currently doesnt look good. im thinking it maybe time to move on from both of these ideologies, but im not sure we know how to do that or what to even move on to.

Oh, I'm expecting a very bad ending because of the extreme "Liberal" climate, and sense of entitlement that everyone seems to have these days.

I had a conversation tonight with my Parents. I'm unemployed but working on the Internet freelancing... and I made the point that I needed to save a nest egg for the future, they said that I was lucky I'm from Europe since the government will be there to take care of me when I'm old. They were surprised when I pointed out that in 20 years time it's highly unlikely that any government will be able to support welfare, pensions, etc for it's citizens. The money is barely there now, and we're dipping heavily into debt. In 20 years? Yikes.

I don't mean that they were shortsighted. My parents are very intelligent people... but they grew up with very little in Ireland, worked hard, and saw an Ireland develop that could provide welfare/pensions for its citizens... and they genuinely didn't think it could end. People in Ireland have this blindness to the fact that Ireland is a small country with few real resources, and yet they expect the same benefits from living in a major economy like the US or the UK. But even those economies are struggling under the strain that each society is creating in providing for everyone...

The problem is that once you give a benefit to the people, you can't take it back. No politician has the support to do it, and even if they did, the next group elected would revert it to gain popularity. So... IMHO it would continue to get worse, debt will rise dramatically, taxes will rise everywhere, and people will start immigrating again until the country (not just Ireland) buckles. I know its a very negative viewpoint... but the banking scandal/crash and lack of executions of the guilty convinced me that we no longer have the will to make lasting change for the better... just paint over the mess, and try to ignore the spreading stains.

I'm not an economist or an expert. Obviously. Still... the signs are there.

capefear

http://m.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/amanda-brunker-an-irish-tycoon-tried-to-convince-me-to-perform-sex-acts-when-i-was-17-36228272.html

Her latest piece

Galwayguy35

capefear wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/amanda-brunker-an-irish-tycoon-tried-to-convince-me-to-perform-sex-acts-when-i-was-17-36228272.html

Her latest piece

Saw the article on FB this morning, she's getting shredded in the comments section.

Donal55

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Saw the article on FB this morning, she's getting shredded in the comments section.

It will get to the stage that there won't be a woman who wasn't allegedly sexually abused the way things are going.

Kinda like the GPO in 1916. Packed to the rafters.

Galwayguy35

There's no doubt Hefner did want to sleep with as many women as was humanly possible I haven't seen any evidence that any of them were forced to have sex with him against their will.

Many of them probably did so to get noticed and to try and find fame and fortune but if they were offering it on a plate for whatever reason he wasn't going to say no.

Pawwed Rig

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

There's no doubt Hefner did want to sleep with as many women as was humanly possible I haven't seen any evidence that any of them were forced to have sex with him against their will.

Many of them probably did so to get noticed and to try and find fame and fortune but if they were offering it on a plate for whatever reason he wasn't going to say no.

It depends on what definition of rape you use and how you define coercion and will. Some quarters will argue that all the women he slept with were raped due to the power differential.

Galwayguy35

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It depends on what definition of rape you use and how you define coercion and will. Some quarters will argue that all the women he slept with were raped due to the power differential.

Well I haven't seen anything to suggest any of them were drugged or forced into sleeping with him so I don't know how anyone could think that.

What's your own view?

Would you see it as rape?

Permabear

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Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Unlikely, because women will generally be perceived as the victim regardless of her actual behaviour. It's like the way that women get sentenced less for criminal acts than men. In the eyes of society, there is always an excuse for women, and generally, if a man is involved he is the responsible one... and so Hefner will always be regarded as the dirty old man (except perhaps by men, because we have all met manipulative or money orientated women)

Pawwed Rig

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

What's your own view?

Would you see it as rape?

I am very much in the thoughts that what 2 consenting adults do to each other is noones business but their own where noone else is affected. However I have seen definitions of rape that range from the bizaar to the ridiculous, some of which where upheld in courts so media reports of rape do not always mean what we think of as rape.
I don't know enough about Hefner's love life to have an opinion on that

Rubberchikken

I completely disagree with anyone who says that grabbing a man by the ads or whatever isn't sexual assault.
Of course it is.
Why would it be sexual assault on a woman but not a man. That's illogical.
I'm presuming not every man would enjoy being grabbed like that just like most women don't like it either.

99nsr125

No it doesn't

OIL gives us the standard of living we have

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

But provides us with a standard of living that our ancestors couldn't even imagine.Yes down with capitalism. We would all be happier picking potatoes.

givyjoe

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Saw the article on FB this morning, she's getting shredded in the comments section.

Only one line but pretty outrageous sentiment 'talk about cheap..' in response to him only giving her 1000 punts to pay her off.

lawred2

otto_26 wrote: »

As a male living in Ireland in the year 2017 I'm really starting to get sick and tired of the constant negative bombardment of men in the Irish media.

While on the bus this afternoon I opened the Independent App and got greeted with the latest man bashing article from Amanda Brunker...

that's as far as I got

Henry94

If you are a man working for a living you have far more in common with the bunnies than you have with Hugh Hefner.

Dionysis

Jake1 wrote: »

Bruncker was a fame whore herself, Id say she have latched on to Hef like a leech, if she the looks to have caught his eye.

Maybe because she her self was so vulnerable and fell into bed with a married man ( James Nesbitt )she assumes all women are like herself.


Im female and hate this poor helpless female shyte

She strikes as someone who made a name for herself because of her looks, however now that Father Time is catching up and despite still being a good looking lady, is not what she was 20 years ago, is not getting the attention, or the work, she used too. Now she's angry about it, and shouts foul, as women have a voice as well. Yes they do Amanda, but you would never have made it into the public eye if it were for your voice alone. Because to get where you got, you required the asset that you had, the surpassed the lady that was not as good looking as you. But could do what your doing now far better than you. Did you stop back then and go, being a model is using my best asset but I shouldn't use it over the other less beautiful women who are better personalities? No you didn't you milked it.

Before, the age old lines of .... pressure on women to be perfect, is put out there.... nobody criticises women's looks more than women.

And finally regarding equality, I would consider myself to be a person who was very much brought up in a men and women are equal environment, and the thought of one gets more than others would never enter my head. Hoever, time has thought me that, women don't want equality, they want what they want, when they want it. That may mean equality today, but if that doesn't suit tomorrow, women don't want it equality. I'm fine I live and let live, and just give them what they want, but 50:50, they definitely don't.

Henry94

Henry94 wrote: »

If you are a man working for a living you have far more in common with the bunnies than you have with Hugh Hefner.

Do you have much in common with Bill Gates, Richard branson, or Sheyl Sandberg?

Henry94

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you have much in common with Bill Gates, Richard branson, or Sheyl Sandberg?

No I have more in common with their bunnies too.

fullstop

capefear wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/amanda-brunker-an-irish-tycoon-tried-to-convince-me-to-perform-sex-acts-when-i-was-17-36228272.html

Her latest piece

#IWantToBeRelevantToo

Always Be Closing

Isn't she married to a millionaire businessman and best friends with Bono?

Lux23

Donal55 wrote: »

It will get to the stage that there won't be a woman who wasn't allegedly sexually abused the way things are going.

Kinda like the GPO in 1916. Packed to the rafters.

Do you think these women are lying? I have been raped, my mother was raped, my best friend was raped, my 4-year-old cousin was molested recently. Are you going to call me a liar too?

Salvation Tambourine

Amanda is insufferable.

I remember watching her on The Apprentice. She said "I don't like taking orders and I especially don't like taking orders from a man!". Good God if that was the other way round...

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

Do you think these women are lying? I have been raped, my mother was raped, my best friend was raped, my 4-year-old cousin was molested recently. Are you going to call me a liar too?

The fact that my comment was ignored is completely indicative of how some men just don't want to listen to women. Even when we lay ourselves bare, share our hurtful experiences we are best pilloried or worst ignored. Shameful.

Wibbs

It often depends on the source of the comments.

Lux23

Wibbs wrote: »

It often depends on the source of the comments.

Right. As in comments from women?

Wibbs

Lux23 wrote: »

Right. As in comments from women?

Nope.

Lux23

Forget it.

Wibbs

TBH I don't really care that much. However for me your angle on feminism tends to colour how I view comments within that subject.

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

So, you're saying that you ignore me specifically, why? Because you don't agree with me? Explain, I would love to hear why I don't warrant your attention?

Are you saying that you are representative, because I think that would have been the meaning people would take from your post

Of course, it would be a difficult point to make in context, so people would likely just not engage.

But if you are saying that your post is representative then I'd imagine most would disagree, as would most studies printed on the topic.

Saruhashi

Lux23 wrote: »

Do you think these women are lying? I have been raped, my mother was raped, my best friend was raped, my 4-year-old cousin was molested recently. Are you going to call me a liar too?

I don't know you.

I'm not going to call you a liar but is there any obligation for me to believe you?

I can offer you platitudes and say "oh that's terrible" but how would that help?

I don't know you and you know that I don't know you. Why should I believe you? Why should you expect that I would believe you? I don't know who you are.

What do you want here?

If you want support then I suggest talking to people you know and trust.
If you want justice then I suggest talking to the police.

If you want unquestioning belief from total strangers on the internet then... why would you want that? Why would you need that?

Who do you think you are that you could just demand it and it would be given without question?

Maybe these women are liars, maybe you are a liar. I don't know because I don't know them and I don't know you.

Are you saying that there are no female liars? Are you saying that nobody ever lies about such serious crimes?

For all I know you are some sweaty 40+ dude, sitting in his mothers basement, catfishing Boards for fun.

My instinct is to say that's actually terrible and I'm so sorry it happened but your attitude absolutely stinks.

I'm happy to take people at face value and voluntarily offer my sympathy or advice or whatever I can. On my terms.

Thing is, if a woman says "he raped me" and the man says "no I didn't" then it's pretty irresponsible for us to believe either party without question. We need evidence.

If you've a rotten attitude and I don't know you and you're demanding that I believe you and that I don't ignore you? No. Sorry. I have nothing to give.

Lux23

Wibbs wrote: »

TBH I don't really care that much. However for me your angle on feminism tends to colour how I view comments within that subject.

I am just shocked at that. I am on the verge of tears right now at how callous you are. But perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.

Lux23

@Saruhashi - I understand your viewpoint, but I initially posted that comment in response to a post from someone who suggested that these #metoo stories are all made up and for attention. I don't want to tell a bunch of strange men what happened to me, I don't even want to think about it but I feel I have to or else nothing will ever change. And here because I am a feminist of sorts, I have had my character besmirched and my experiences belittled because someone doesn't agree with my opinions on gender issues. That I shouldn't be trusted. That is wrong, plain and simple.

Wibbs

Lux23 wrote: »

And here because I am a feminist of sorts, I have had my character besmirched and my experiences belittled because someone doesn't agree with my opinions on gender issues. That I shouldn't be trusted. That is wrong, plain and simple.

None of that is true. I merely suggested one reason why comments, any comments may be ignored. I never said you couldn't be trusted, I never besmirched your character. Nor did I say your experiences were invalid. I didn't even comment on them.

Lux23

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you saying that you are representative, because I think that would have been the meaning people would take from your post

I don't know. All I know is that many of female friends and family members have stories like mine. Having said that my boyfriend was groped on a number of occasions as well so I don't believe this is necessarily a woman's issue.

Lux23

Wibbs wrote: »

None of that is true. I merely suggested one reason why comments, any comments may be ignored. I never said you couldn't be trusted, I never besmirched your character. Nor did I say your experiences were invalid. I didn't even comment on them.

You said because I was feminist that your opinion on my post was coloured by that. I took that as a personal attack and a callous one at that.

Wibbs

Lux23 wrote: »

You said because I was feminist that your opinion on my post was coloured by that.

I said comments. Not that specific one. EG when you posted about men being allowed to beat "her" kids; a) they were her kids, apparently the father doesn't have much in the mix and b) no mention that mothers might dole out corporal punishment to their kids. That's most certainly an angle on things. This does NOT mean I don't believe your post above, but TBH I didn't even notice it originally, merely offered one explanation why it was ignored and TBH my take is more in line with Saruhashi's, though I would tend to take people online more on face value in general.

Lux23

And you can't see why even offering that comment, in a general sense, would upset someone who just shared something deeply personal and painful?

Wibbs

Lux23 wrote: »

And you can't see why even offering that comment, in a general sense, would upset someone who just shared something deeply personal and painful?

I refer you to Saruhashi's post which gives my take far better than I could. And which apparently didn't cause you upset.

Saruhashi wrote: »

I don't know you.

I'm not going to call you a liar but is there any obligation for me to believe you?

I can offer you platitudes and say "oh that's terrible" but how would that help?

I don't know you and you know that I don't know you. Why should I believe you? Why should you expect that I would believe you? I don't know who you are.

What do you want here?

If you want support then I suggest talking to people you know and trust.
If you want justice then I suggest talking to the police.

If you want unquestioning belief from total strangers on the internet then... why would you want that? Why would you need that?

Who do you think you are that you could just demand it and it would be given without question?

Maybe these women are liars, maybe you are a liar. I don't know because I don't know them and I don't know you.

Are you saying that there are no female liars? Are you saying that nobody ever lies about such serious crimes?

For all I know you are some sweaty 40+ dude, sitting in his mothers basement, catfishing Boards for fun.

My instinct is to say that's actually terrible and I'm so sorry it happened but your attitude absolutely stinks.

I'm happy to take people at face value and voluntarily offer my sympathy or advice or whatever I can. On my terms.

Thing is, if a woman says "he raped me" and the man says "no I didn't" then it's pretty irresponsible for us to believe either party without question. We need evidence.

If you've a rotten attitude and I don't know you and you're demanding that I believe you and that I don't ignore you? No. Sorry. I have nothing to give.

Wibbs

Actually, now that I read that more I'll be honest and say I would be dubious about this line;

My instinct is to say that's actually terrible and I'm so sorry it happened but your attitude absolutely stinks.


And would not have said it. And TBH part 2 a couple of the other lines too, which I might feel strayed a bit close to the bone. But again apparently that was all OK, but my comment was the only one that caused actual upset?



*if I'd seen a report on S's post I'd have read it more carefully.

Saruhashi

Lux23 wrote: »

@Saruhashi - I understand your viewpoint, but I initially posted that comment in response to a post from someone who suggested that these #metoo stories are all made up and for attention. I don't want to tell a bunch of strange men what happened to me, I don't even want to think about it but I feel I have to or else nothing will ever change. And here because I am a feminist of sorts, I have had my character besmirched and my experiences belittled because someone doesn't agree with my opinions on gender issues. That I shouldn't be trusted. That is wrong, plain and simple.

The saddest thing is that some of these #metoo stories will be made up and for attention.

I think anyone who has spent any kind of time around humans would know this. People lie.

I think it's a serious entitlement issue if people are demanding that strangers believe them and then berating them if they don't believe you (or if they just ignore you).

If we knew each other (and I trusted you) then of course I would believe you. Absolutely. 100%

We don't though. Deep down you must know that a stranger saying "I believe you" is either just feeding you BS or is incredibly naive. You must know this. I can't see how you wouldn't.

I can't reconcile these 2 things. I would want any allies and supporters of mine to be rational people with good judgement. Someone who believes me without question is neither of those things.

It feels like anyone outside of close family and friends who automatically says "I believe you" is just a kind of naive follower who doesn't think, or just doesn't want to think, too deeply about the issue.

If I posted a "metoo" and everyone here (people I do not know) said "I believe you, you are brave" and never ask me anything to test the truthfulness of my story etc then I'd honestly wonder if they REALLY believe me or if they are just going along with it because they have to.

Saruhashi

Lux23 wrote: »

You said because I was feminist that your opinion on my post was coloured by that. I took that as a personal attack and a callous one at that.

I think that's OK though. It shows that the person you are engaging with at least has some kind of nuanced thought going on in their head.

If you are a Feminist then it makes sense that people would then see a potential crack in your credibility. Now they might be 100% wrong but it shows that they are at least taking a moment to think.

How could you ever respect someone who just says "say no more, I believe you no matter what"?

Would you not think "hang on, what if I was actually lying here and these dummies are hanging on my every word"?

That seems way worse to me. To know that people are believing you because they feel obligated rather than having to win them over.

Wibbs

Saruhashi wrote: »

That seems way worse to me. To know that people are believing you because they feel obligated rather than having to win them over.

That was one issue I had with a previous trend on the matter along the lines of #alwaysbelievewomen. As if women were a different species of human of all one soul that somehow lacked the ability to exaggerate or lie. I'd feel exactly the same of a trend of #alwaysbelievemen. People are truthful or not. In my personal life I have found no gender split in honesty, though if anything I have found men more prone to exaggeration about events in general.

Now I can understand why this idea came about. For a long period of history(inc some cultures even today) women's testimony in law was rated lower than men's. Pretty much at the same level as children. That was batsh1t daft and as I say I can see how being not automatically believed because of the position of one's gonads would bloody well rankle. Is that still in play under the surface? I would say yeah, to some degree in some and that needs a light shining on it, but what we don't need to do for any group is go batsh1t daft in the other direction even if it seems "nicer". Because the danger is what will happen (and I'm feeling it is) is a backlash where people will ignore actual truths. The signal will be lost in the noise.

retro:electro

Lux23 wrote: »

The fact that my comment was ignored is completely indicative of how some men just don't want to listen to women. Even when we lay ourselves bare, share our hurtful experiences we are best pilloried or worst ignored. Shameful.

How do you know it was ignored? Because people didn't thank it? Because people didn't respond in time? Why are you measuring people's sympathy or ignorance by the number of thanks it did or didn't get? And why is your comment specifically directed at men? Do you only want men to listen to you? I'm a woman and I read here.

Lux23

I am not lying.

Wibbs

Not a single person suggested you were.

Lux23

I shared the experiences of myself and women I know. Everyone here told me why they shouldn't believe me or these stories. There are long-winded posts about critical thinking and how my attitude stinks so why would anyone believe me. That is as much as calling me a liar.

retro:electro

Lux23 wrote: »

I shared the experiences of myself and women I know. Everyone here told me why they shouldn't believe me or these stories. There are long-winded posts about critical thinking and how my attitude stinks so why would anyone believe me. That is as much as calling me a liar.

Maybe no one responded because quite frankly, your post was extremely confrontational and aggressive despite the delicate content. Maybe if you want posters to engage with you, don't come at them and drop bombs in such an antagonistic way. I wouldn't blame anyone for not responding to that. I'm really getting sick of seeing people replying to posters in that particular style- it's so distasteful not to mind extremely unfair. Sorry but that is no way to engage with a poster.