What do you look for in New tenants?

Graham

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

As a tenant these days most pay pver the odds for a shoebox.

Increasing rents are a symptom of short-supply and increased property costs.

As a tenant you're absolutely going to notice if your rent has increased from €1000/month to €1500/month. On the other side, a landlord/investor is going to notice if the acquisition cost of an apartment has increased from €200,000 to €300,000.

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

they can be turfed out at at any point through repossession or the landlord choosing to sell at any time.

I don't this that's particularly accurate either. Part 4 tenancies have recently increased from 4 years to 6 years and can only be ended under very limited circumstances.

Those vast majority of tenants continue to enjoy the increased security of a part 4 tenancy.

CaoimheSquee wrote: »

The tenants that stay on are either a)got nowehere else to go and doing it out of desperation or b) horrible people, which I would argue is a minority. And these type of people have existed. It is absolute logic that landlords such be protected from such tenants.

+1

Much of this thread is based on those tenants. It's a landlords fear of those tenants and the enormous difficulty, timescales and costs of removing those bad-egg tenants that give rise to this type of thread in the first place.

It's not just the landlords that suffer at the hands of 'rogue' tenants. It's every other decent tenant that comes after them.

martinr5232

Graham wrote:

It's not just the landlords that suffer at the hands of 'rogue' tenants. It's every other decent tenant that comes after them.

If it wasnt so difficult to get rid of bad tennants it would be so much easier for everyone.

dudara

Every rental experience I've had in my life has been positive. I've had good relationships with my landlords, and never any issues with deposits etc. And I think the vast majority of tenancies actually fall into that bucket.

As long as the market stays heated, we are going to hear more and more negative experiences as people on all sides are getting more emotionally invested. Tenants who might previously have been easy going won't be so passive or easy going due to the high rents being paid, while landlords are experiencing difficulties in removing troublesome tenants and navigating increasing amounts of red tape.

The whole thing is a mess.

Michael D Not Higgins

@dudara, Indeed, we get a disproportionate amount of bad cases in this forum. People don't come here to say how great their experience with their tenant/landlord was so we get a skewed view of the market. The RTB report showed the number of tenancies that ended badly/had disputes/etc. was a tiny percentage, indicating most tenants are good tenants and most landlords are good landlords.

Graham

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

most tenants are good tenants and most landlords are good landlords.

+1

a fact that is very easy to lose sight of if you hang around here long enough.

skerry

Facing the prospect of putting our house up for rent in the next month or so as we are moving house and dont want to sell right now.

I'm hoping to find someone in my network of friends that someone can recommend but failing that I'm not sure I could handle the headache of listing it and interviewing myself. Have a work mate who did same and ended up getting lots of abusive mails and calls from people who they refused.

Does anyone know how much estate agents generally charge for taking care of this and do they deal with/ filter tenants complaints etc as part of the deal or do they just take care of finding a tenant?

con1982

Quiet couple in their 30/40s. No kids. People who keep a tidy place.

Snoopy1

skerry wrote: »

Facing the prospect of putting our house up for rent in the next month or so as we are moving house and dont want to sell right now.

I'm hoping to find someone in my network of friends that someone can recommend but failing that I'm not sure I could handle the headache of listing it and interviewing myself. Have a work mate who did same and ended up getting lots of abusive mails and calls from people who they refused.

Does anyone know how much estate agents generally charge for taking care of this and do they deal with/ filter tenants complaints etc as part of the deal or do they just take care of finding a tenant?

Any agency ive rented off has dealt with everything including fixing and complaint. Ive never had to deal with a landlord direct.

Snoopy1

con1982 wrote: »

Quiet couple in their 30/40s. No kids. People who keep a tidy place.

What about single people late 30's or 40's. They are mature too

Graham

skerry wrote: »

Facing the prospect of putting our house up for rent in the next month or so as we are moving house and dont want to sell right now.

I'm hoping to find someone in my network of friends that someone can recommend but failing that I'm not sure I could handle the headache of listing it and interviewing myself. Have a work mate who did same and ended up getting lots of abusive mails and calls from people who they refused.

Does anyone know how much estate agents generally charge for taking care of this and do they deal with/ filter tenants complaints etc as part of the deal or do they just take care of finding a tenant?

It's entirely up-to you how much or little the agency do. You can ask them to just handle the initial letting for a one-off fee, or you can ask them to manage the entire tenancy in return for an ongoing monthly/annual fee.

LLL11

I understand where both sides are coming from. As a LL you want to make sure your property is well looked after and that you will be paid what you are owed every month. But if you are a tenant, it's most likely because you can't afford a house of your own and every cent counts. What about all of the professionals in their 20's who have had to stay/move back home because starting salaries are so low and rent is high. By the time they can afford rent they have no previous LL's to give a reference. How do you find somewhere by the standards in this thread?
I got very lucky by the sounds of it. Mid 20's, single mother, first time renter. My landlord accepted just a reference from my employer. He understood that I was looking for somewhere long term and that I was keen to stay near my son's school. He said he wants a tenant for as long as possible, not a new tenant every year. And provided I have no problems with my LL, I would be happy to stay until I would be in a position to get my own mortgage which is years away. Most parents don't want to uproot kids where they don't have to.
I would never hand over bank statements though. The last three/six month's payslips yes, but not bank statements.

Cuddlesworth

Snoopy1 wrote: »

What about single people late 30's or 40's. They are mature too

In Dublin, they usually can't afford it.

skerry

Graham wrote: »

skerry wrote: »

Facing the prospect of putting our house up for rent in the next month or so as we are moving house and dont want to sell right now.

I'm hoping to find someone in my network of friends that someone can recommend but failing that I'm not sure I could handle the headache of listing it and interviewing myself. Have a work mate who did same and ended up getting lots of abusive mails and calls from people who they refused.

Does anyone know how much estate agents generally charge for taking care of this and do they deal with/ filter tenants complaints etc as part of the deal or do they just take care of finding a tenant?

It's entirely up-to you how much or little the agency do.  You can ask them to just handle the initial letting for a one-off fee, or you can ask them to manage the entire tenancy in return for an ongoing  monthly/annual fee.

Cheers. I know there will be no shortage of people looking to rent as its well placed in town, I just don't think I could handle the work that goes into vetting applicants as most of our time will be invested in trying to get new house sorted.

The mother in law has had a few nightmare tenants in the past. People ringing her at all hours of the morning asking for things to be fixed that you wouldn't bat an eyelid to if you owned the house yourself.

Also had a tenant who asked could he trim the tree's in the back garden to which she said no bother. When he moved out she found out that he had cut down all the tree's around the border of the house for firewood. Tree's were probably 50 years old and he cut them all to the ground.

Snoopy1

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

In Dublin, they usually can't afford it.

Thats not true. I guarantee I earn a lot more than most couples, why should I be penalised for chosing to be single.

Graham

Snoopy1 wrote: »

Thats not true. I guarantee I earn a lot more than most couples, why should I be penalised for chosing to be single.

In all reality I doubt you would be.

The_Conductor

When showing the apartment to prospective tenants- specify no smoking only- and without it being obvious- while greeting prospective tenants at the door- check their fingers for nicotine stains.

It is pretty much impossible to get the smell of cigarette smoke out of a room, furnishings, curtains, walls etc etc.

Also- anyone who smokes- but swears they'll never smoke in their room- make a working assumption they are lying through their teeth- and strike them off the list at the earliest possible opportunity.

Employer reference- ring the employer listed- but to a phone number other than that in the prospective tenant's reference. Ask to talk to HR/Personnel. Ask them to confirm, yes or no, that they have an employee by the name of the prospective employee. Thats all the information you want from them- they do in actual fact work there.

Deposit- of 1 month, and rent 3 months in advance, paid quarterly.

Length of time at last address- and valid reason the tenancy ended

If they drive- have a quick look at their car in passing- particularly at disposables/consumables- how they look after their car, is probably how they will look after your house. Are the brake pads, tyres or wiper blades worn- and are there any lights not working when they leave?

Essentially- you are looking for signs and signals in things that they are not necessarily telling or deliberately showing you- that give you a glimpse into how they live their lives.

If they're students- what are they studying? Are they likely to have 20+ hours of lectures a week- along with a rake of labs- and be too knackered to destroy the place with parties (and annoy the neighbours)- or are you looking at someone who has 7-8 hours of lectures a week- and a lot of time on their hands.

You can get a picture of your prospective tenants- both through subtle questions- but also be simply observing them from the outset and using the little cues to build up a picture in your mind as to the type of person they are (of course to be supplemented with hard information).

But the massive biggie for me- would be absolutely and totally no smokers, without any exceptions- no smokers- ever.............

Snoopy1

The_Conductor wrote: »

When showing the apartment to prospective tenants- specify no smoking only- and without it being obvious- while greeting prospective tenants at the door- check their fingers for nicotine stains.

It is pretty much impossible to get the smell of cigarette smoke out of a room, furnishings, curtains, walls etc etc.

Also- anyone who smokes- but swears they'll never smoke in their room- make a working assumption they are lying through their teeth- and strike them off the list at the earliest possible opportunity.

Ask for current addresses- and when you finally narrow it down to 1-2 possible tenants- visit their current address with a few bottles of wine- and ask the immediate neighbours if they have ever had any issues with the tenants (and give them a bottle of wine, or a box of sweets as a thankyou for their assistance).

Employer reference- ring the employer listed- but to a phone number other than that in the prospective tenant's reference. Ask to talk to HR/Personnel. Ask them to confirm, yes or no, that they have an employee by the name of the prospective employee. Thats all the information you want from them- they do in actual fact work there.

Deposit- of 1 month, and rent 3 months in advance, paid quarterly.

Length of time at last address- and valid reason the tenancy ended

If they drive- have a quick look at their car in passing- particularly at disposables/consumables- how they look after their car, is probably how they will look after your house. Are the brake pads, tyres or wiper blades worn- and are there any lights not working when they leave?

Essentially- you are looking for signs and signals in things that they are not necessarily telling or deliberately showing you- that give you a glimpse into how they live their lives.

If they don't drive- and have used public transport- is their footwear sensible- or some sort of bling.

If they're students- what are they studying? Are they likely to have 20+ hours of lectures a week- along with a rake of labs- and be too knackered to destroy the place with parties (and annoy the neighbours)- or are you looking at someone who has 7-8 hours of lectures a week- and a lot of time on their hands.

You can get a picture of your prospective tenants- both through subtle questions- but also be simply observing them from the outset and using the little cues to build up a picture in your mind as to the type of person they are (of course to be supplemented with hard information).

But the massive biggie for me- would be absolutely and totally no smokers, without any exceptions- no smokers- ever.............

Are you having a laugh
Checking their brake pads, ive never heard of anything so ridiculous
3months rent paid quarterly no chance
Going round to the neighbors, they probably wont answer door
I wear blingy shoes , but also have a good job, doesnt mean I cant pay rent

You made me laugh so hard with all those points, so thanks for making my night

davo10

Snoopy1 wrote: »

Are you having a laugh
Checking their brake pads, ive never heard of anything so ridiculous
3months rent paid quarterly no chance
Going round to the neighbors, they probably wont answer door
I wear blingy shoes , but also have a good job, doesnt mean I cant pay rent

You made me laugh so hard with all those points, so thanks for making my night

Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks. Each LL has their own selection criteria and payment/deposit requirements. If you don't like it, don't rent it, but move out of the way, the next person will.

the_syco

Snoopy1 wrote: »

Are you having a laugh
Checking their brake pads, ive never heard of anything so ridiculous

It goes both ways. If the LL checks you out, they're most likely renting something decent. Any sh|thole I've lived in; the LL's couldn't care once I paid them rent, and mostly didn't care if something broke, and I needed them to fix it (decade or two ago, before I knew about the RTB).

_Dara_

The_Conductor wrote: »

When showing the apartment to prospective tenants- specify no smoking only- and without it being obvious- while greeting prospective tenants at the door- check their fingers for nicotine stains.

It is pretty much impossible to get the smell of cigarette smoke out of a room, furnishings, curtains, walls etc etc.

Also- anyone who smokes- but swears they'll never smoke in their room- make a working assumption they are lying through their teeth- and strike them off the list at the earliest possible opportunity.

Ask for current addresses- and when you finally narrow it down to 1-2 possible tenants- visit their current address with a few bottles of wine- and ask the immediate neighbours if they have ever had any issues with the tenants (and give them a bottle of wine, or a box of sweets as a thankyou for their assistance).

Employer reference- ring the employer listed- but to a phone number other than that in the prospective tenant's reference. Ask to talk to HR/Personnel. Ask them to confirm, yes or no, that they have an employee by the name of the prospective employee. Thats all the information you want from them- they do in actual fact work there.

Deposit- of 1 month, and rent 3 months in advance, paid quarterly.

Length of time at last address- and valid reason the tenancy ended

If they drive- have a quick look at their car in passing- particularly at disposables/consumables- how they look after their car, is probably how they will look after your house. Are the brake pads, tyres or wiper blades worn- and are there any lights not working when they leave?

Essentially- you are looking for signs and signals in things that they are not necessarily telling or deliberately showing you- that give you a glimpse into how they live their lives.

If they don't drive- and have used public transport- is their footwear sensible- or some sort of bling.

If they're students- what are they studying? Are they likely to have 20+ hours of lectures a week- along with a rake of labs- and be too knackered to destroy the place with parties (and annoy the neighbours)- or are you looking at someone who has 7-8 hours of lectures a week- and a lot of time on their hands.

You can get a picture of your prospective tenants- both through subtle questions- but also be simply observing them from the outset and using the little cues to build up a picture in your mind as to the type of person they are (of course to be supplemented with hard information).

But the massive biggie for me- would be absolutely and totally no smokers, without any exceptions- no smokers- ever.............

This has to be a pisstake.

To pick one point at random, I would find it so weird if some wine-and-chocolate-wielding stranger knocked on my door, asking me about my neighbours.

Also footwear... sensible... bling... what are you on about?

Some of your points border on obsessive and - I gotta be honest - downright creepy.

But as snoopy said, thanks for the laughs.

mikemac2

Our mod must be drunk, hilarious post

Makes a change from their usual routine of using this forum as a news dump early in the mornings

The_Conductor

Snoopy1 wrote: »

Are you having a laugh
Checking their brake pads, ive never heard of anything so ridiculous
3months rent paid quarterly no chance
Going round to the neighbors, they probably wont answer door
I wear blingy shoes , but also have a good job, doesnt mean I cant pay rent

You made me laugh so hard with all those points, so thanks for making my night

When you have 50-60 prospective tenants looking for accommodation in a high demand area- you can afford to be just as picky as you choose- and to use whatever criteria you like to whittle down the pack to the most suitable tenant from your perspective. You are handing over an asset worth anything between 250-500k- and you deserve to have a reasoned idea that it'll be well kept and cared for.

The one stand-out check for me- if I was choosing tenants (and I'm not)- is nicotine stained fingers. I would hate smokers pretty much more than anything else in the world.

If you want to give a valuable property to the first person you see at the door- without thorough investigations, annecdotal or otherwise, knock yourself out- however, I suspect you won't remain in business for very long.

_Dara_

Nah, Conductor, that list makes you seem completely mental. You seriously think someone has to employ such OTT antics to be a successful landlord?

The_Conductor

Alternatively- there are local investigators in most urban areas- who do background checks on prospective tenants.
It depends on the property letting- but a basic background check package- costs between 1,000-1,200
If you google the national papers you'll see court cases involving many of the investigators and what are often underhand methods (including impersonation) employed to try to dig out information about prospective tenants. If you look at recent data commissioner reports- you'll see several very worrying cases involving investigators- several who were allegedly employed by landlords- who were found to have improperly accessed personal information (including two cases of impersonation with the Department of Social Protection and one with the Department of Agriculture).

Honestly- we need some sort of a credit bureau- where everyone can get an accessible credit score/rating- sort of like Experian, however, barr the data breaches...........

The_Conductor

_Dara_ wrote: »

Nah, Conductor, that list makes you seem completely mental. You seriously think someone has to employ such OTT antics to be a successful landlord?

Depends- someone who has had a couple of overholding tenants who decided paying rent was an optional activity- and it took them 2 years plus to get them out- may have a very different point of view- to a lovely easy going landlord- who has never had a problem in his life- and whose tenants similarly have never had a problem.......

There isn't a one-size-fits-all approach- it depends.
You will find some nutty landlords out there (me all I'd really be nuts about if I was in the position of vetting a tenant- would be smoking- I'd be rational about pretty much everything else- but absolutely no smokers, no excuses).

The regulatory regime is setup to protect tenants at all costs- regardless of whether they are paying their rent or not. This is the environment in which landlords now find themselves. They have to adapt- or go the way of dinosaurs- and yes- many of them- should be actively encouraged to get the hell out of the sector.

Whether tenants realise it or not- the entire system is setup in their favour- the sole point in the equation where a landlord can try and get what is in their best interest- is at the outset- where he/she- if they are prudent- will do their utmost to try to get the type of tenant that suits whatever business model they want to run (obviously their business model has to comply fully with the Residential Tenancies Act, as amended).

Some of the items I put in my post last night- were extreme- but are things I've heard of- or that siblings have encountered. I can see why some of them might be done- less so others- but people are doing them.

Me- I've received phone calls in work from random strangers I've never heard of- asking what I thought of the most vague of acquaintances- perhaps people I've spoken to on the phone- but never actually met- what the hell am I to say- deny all knowledge that I know the person, or try and give as little information as possible, without saying anything derogatory?

Yes- some of the items I listed were somewhat tongue in cheek- however, they are all things I've heard of- and a few which I encountered (the car was a new one by me- but I can see where they were coming from- I got that student accommodation).

Just keep an open mind- the boot is firmly on the foot of tenants- whether they realise it or not- and the potential for a tenant to cause serious financial damage to a landlord- is immeasurable- however, there is no cognisance of this in the Act- its all about protecting the tenant- not the tenant's neighbours who may have to move from serious antisocial behaviour- or the landlord- who may have no rent for 2 years plus (even now)- before they eventually get vacant possession of a property.

The RTB undertake to fast-track hearings involving overholding where rent is or is not being paid- and to have initial hearings within 8-12 weeks. Which is fine- however- this is an initial hearing- not the tenant vacating the property- and if rent is not being paid- its the start of a long road- where the tenant gets to dispute everything at the RTB- and after a hearing, mediation, an adjudication, a court case etc- the tenant is still in situ- and the landlord has buttons to show for everything..........

I've heard of everything on my list from last night- extreme though some of them are- but they do happen.

The_Conductor

_Dara_ wrote: »

Nah, Conductor, that list makes you seem completely mental. You seriously think someone has to employ such OTT antics to be a successful landlord?

Me- if I was vetting tenants- which I wouldn't do- I wouldn't know where to start, and I'd probably end up in a heap on the floor trying to figure who to choose. I'd just bite the bullet and use an agency- I honestly don't think I'd be capable of choosing tenants- especially where I might have 40-60-100 prospective people converge on a property- or my phone ring off the hook 10 minutes after an add goes up on Daft.

I wouldn't personally let property- full stop. I'd hand it over to an agency- pay them the 10% (or whatever they're now charging) and its a cost of doing business- but the tenant would get a decent contact point- and I'd be insulated from all the nitty gritty of choosing a tenant or sorting the day-to-day issues.

I stopped working in a call-centre all those years ago- because while I could sell stuff- I hated it- I'm not a salesperson- I can't cope in that environment.

_Dara_

You presented that list as if it was your own personal checklist for vetting prospective tenants. And, in all seriousness and all joking aside, some of the things you describe cross a line, IMO. That a landlord might actually employ some of them doesn't make them any less creepy. That you know people that have employed some of them doesn't make them any less creepy. Hiding behind "I'm protecting my valuable asset" to justify questionable behaviour and explicitly stating that a landlord who doesn't follow these pointers probably won't succeed is most bizarre.

The quicker we get a functioning rental market where a tenant has the luxury of turning down a total creep of a landlord, the better.

The_Conductor

_Dara_ wrote: »

You presented that list as if it was your own personal checklist for vetting prospective tenants. And, in all seriousness and all joking aside, some of the things you describe cross a line, IMO. That a landlord might actually employ some of them doesn't make them any less creepy. That you know people that have employed some of them doesn't make them any less creepy. Hiding behind "I'm protecting my valuable asset" to justify questionable behaviour and explicitly stating that a landlord who doesn't follow these pointers probably won't succeed is most bizarre.

Some landlord *do* those things.
Others- employ local investigators- who are even less savoury (and have been caught out- as per the cases the data protection commissioner has come across).

There is a valid argument to be made for good tenants and good landlords- having some sort of rating body- it could be the RTB itself- vet them as either prospective tenants or landlords.

In the UK- even the likes of 1-2-3 Direct sell landlord insurance- which includes (after 90 days) a rent protection- i.e. if the tenant stops paying the rent the landlord's insurance covers it. There is also a regime where a non-paying tenant can be evicted within 90 days. This particular company is licensed to operate here- however, they don't offer this product- for obvious reasons.

Tenants honestly don't realise just how the system is setup here- it copperfastens their residence in properties- regardless of pretty much anything.

My last experience of vetting tenants- involved a close work colleague- who had the equivalent of CVs on his desk- he narrowed it down to 10- and asked my opinion on them. He eventually went with a Filipino nurse and her family- who were working in the locality- whose tenancy was ending because their current landlord was selling the property- and this was all obvious from looking on the internet. He did however- have to turn off his phone- as he was getting a mental number of phone calls (this was a 3 bed house in Lucan)- to the extent he wasn't able to get his day job done.

In this forum- we tend to hear of nutty landlords- and nightmare tenants. We don't hear of what happens to 95% of tenants and landlords- who just get on with things and have a good business relationship with one another. Its the same anywhere on the internet- you only get the extreme stories- not what happens to the average person.

The list I gave- most certainly *is* extreme- but it also most certainly- is happening- in some isolated cases- and probably among landlords who have been burnt before and feel the need to go to these lengths to try and ensure they don't end up in these situations again.

Different people have pet hates- my own pet hate is smoking- whenever I meet people- I always look for nicotine stains. I've encountered lung cancer a few times in my life- and its something that never ceases to cause me anguish (wholly aside from the fact that I hate the smell of cigarettes and smoke).

The_Conductor

mikemac2 wrote: »

You gave a long list like you knew tips and pointers and then say you wouldn’t know how to vet tenants. So is the list no good so?

Its a list- partially from this forum- partially from the RTB and the Data Protection Commission- and the car bit- I encountered myself as a student (I did pass that test apparently). Its bits from a lot of different places. Its a bit extreme- but most landlords probably do some elements of it (not all obviously- or they'd never have a tenant- they'd spend most of their time in court!).

_Dara_

The_Conductor wrote: »

Some landlord *do* those things.
Others- employ local investigators- who are even less savoury (and have been caught out- as per the cases the data protection commissioner has come across).

I have no doubt about either of these things happening. Sometimes people do shitty things. Plus ça change.

The thread was asking posters here what they look for in tenants. So why did you include a list containing some questionable things other landlords do if you don't do them yourself?