Budget 2018 - Mod note in post #1

_Kaiser_

It's ridiculous really.. I read somewhere in the last few days that about 33% of the working population pay zero tax... wtf? :mad:

LeinsterDub

doylefe wrote: »

750 euro increase on the cut off for the higher rate of tax...joke. Should be increased by 10-20k.

And how would you fund that?

hmmm

doylefe wrote: »

Christmas bonus, nice. I look forward to my 0% Christmas bonus after working my ass off all year.

Unemployment rate down to 6% and we're rewarding people who have been on the dole for life. Not to mention billions for social housing.

bloodless_coup

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And how would you fund that?

How do other countries? People on lower incomes need to pay more tax.

MayoSalmon

LeinsterDub wrote: »

And how would you fund that?

Fund what? Giving people back the money you already took?!

Irony of these statements

_Kaiser_

doylefe wrote: »

How do other countries? People on lower incomes need to pay more tax.

.. or as I said above, even SOME tax

TheDoc

doylefe wrote: »

Christmas bonus, nice. I look forward to my 0% Christmas bonus after working my ass off all year.

In fairness, issue with your job or sector if there isn't bonus incentives.

I get an annual bonus that get's taxed up the swiss which absolutely drives me up the wall. If I was in charge of legislation for a day I'd put in that bonus payments up to X, on one instance per tax year, is tax free.

It's as it says on the tin, a bonus for quality of work or targets achieved or whatever. That it gets taxed always sickens me, even as someone who fully understands and supports income tax and thinks ours is somewhat progressive, albeit full of myths from PR spinsters

LeinsterDub

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Fund what? Giving people back the money you already took?!

Irony of these statements

Fund the massive hole it would leave in the budget

LeinsterDub

doylefe wrote: »

How do other countries? People on lower incomes need to pay more tax.

How much more tax and how lower on incomes?

sterideal

Cheapest airline to fly to Thailand with

doylefe

doylefe wrote: »

750 euro increase on the cut off for the higher rate of tax...joke. Should be increased by 10-20k.

while lads on the scratch get €5/week extra

The Specialist

Will they ever learn on the cigarette increases? Until they have 0% import of illegal tobacco, price increases will only fuel the black market. Pure idiocy parading as a "health" tax.

TheDoc

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's ridiculous really.. I read somewhere in the last few days that about 33% of the working population pay zero tax... wtf? :mad:

It's been like that for some time. About a third of our workforce earn so little they don't reach tax brackets.

It's one of the big myths that got spun during the recession and in the aftermath, with left sided politicians claiming how the lower class or low paid carried us through the recession, when it was clearly the middle - upper earners and the large multinational corps that setup here

VinLieger

LeinsterDub wrote: »

How much more tax and how lower on incomes?

The obvious answer is USC, it is the most progressive tax system we currently have and instead of expanding it we are reducing it

LeinsterDub

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness, issue with your job or sector if there isn't bonus incentives.

I get an annual bonus that get's taxed up the swiss which absolutely drives me up the wall. If I was in charge of legislation for a day I'd put in that bonus payments up to X, on one instance per tax year, is tax free.

It's as it says on the tin, a bonus for quality of work or targets achieved or whatever. That it gets taxed always sickens me, even as someone who fully understands and supports income tax and thinks ours is somewhat progressive, albeit full of myths from PR spinsters

Bankers would love that. 100 k pa and a nice 250 k tax free guaranteed "bonus"

VinLieger

The Specialist wrote: »

Will they ever learn on the cigarette increases? Until they have 0% import of illegal tobacco, price increases will only fuel the black market. Pure idiocy parading as a "health" tax.

Much like the MUP on alcohol, it has nothing to do with health either

TheDoc

The Specialist wrote: »

Will they ever learn on the cigarette increases? Until they have 0% import of illegal tobacco, price increases will only fuel the black market. Pure idiocy parading as a "health" tax.

In fairness I've never really felt this tobacco sting, and not sure how anyone pays €11+ for a pack.

Whatever the loophole is, all brands have "alternative" types that sell well below the €10 when things started getting silly.

Current packs I buy in shops are €9.40

blackwhite

listermint wrote: »

Tbh that would not be high on my list of concerns.


Is it yours? im more concerned about the content.

why are you not ?

I can be interested in both.


TBH - you seem more concerned in having personal pops at other posters instead of what's going on in the Dáil?

The Specialist

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness I've never really felt this tobacco sting, and not sure how anyone pays €11+ for a pack.

Whatever the loophole is, all brands have "alternative" types that sell well below the €10 when things started getting silly.

Current packs I buy in shops are €9.40

Get away from the shops and you can get 50g of tobacco for as low as 10e in the right places I gave up on paying the extortionate prices here a long time ago.

Kiith

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness, issue with your job or sector if there isn't bonus incentives.

I get an annual bonus that get's taxed up the swiss which absolutely drives me up the wall. If I was in charge of legislation for a day I'd put in that bonus payments up to X, on one instance per tax year, is tax free.

It's as it says on the tin, a bonus for quality of work or targets achieved or whatever. That it gets taxed always sickens me, even as someone who fully understands and supports income tax and thinks ours is somewhat progressive, albeit full of myths from PR spinsters

This is always something that drove me mental. I burst my bollox working for a year, get a bonus, and the government take 51% of it? As you say, bonuses up to a certain amount (10k or something like that) should be completely tax free.

MayoSalmon

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Fund the massive hole it would leave in the budget

How is that the taxpayers problem? How about government stop spending exorbitant amounts of money that requires taking some 48% of people incomes nevermind they other ****e they throw tax onto..VAT, Excises etc..

TheDoc

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Bankers would love that. 100 k pa and a nice 250 k tax free guaranteed "bonus"

You know there are people who earn six figure salaries, who then get six figure bonuses, who absolutely deserve it?

I get what your general point is, and we need to look no further then our own politicians or public sector to see people unjustly rewarding themselves with bonuses or scheduled salary increases.

But for most people in the private sector a bonus is not a guarantee, and is a just reward for work well done etc.

bloodless_coup

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness, issue with your job or sector if there isn't bonus incentives.

Of course I get bonuses for my awesome work. There's just not an automatic Christmas bonus.

Freindly

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

.. or as I said above, even SOME tax

A lot of people expect European level services with American level taxation. The delusion that they pay enough taxes to expect these and any extra cash should come from those that earn more is feed to them mainly by certain parties.

smeal

2% commercial stamp duty- will this apply to leases also?

LeinsterDub

MayoSalmon wrote: »

How is that the taxpayers problem? How about government stop spending exorbitant amounts of money that requires taking some 48% of people incomes nevermind they other ****e they throw tax onto..VAT, Excises etc..

Do you remember our last massive hole in the budget aka the recession? That's how it's the tax players problem.

What social services are proposing cutting ? Since you want to cut spending ?

TheDoc

Kiith wrote: »

This is always something that drove me mental. I burst my bollox working for a year, get a bonus, and the government take 51% of it? As you say, bonuses up to a certain amount (10k or something like that) should be completely tax free.

I've even broached this with politicians knocking at the door, but there is literally no appetite from most politicians or parties to take up an agenda or issue representative of people earning in excess of €40,000.

You can't whip the middle and upper earners into a frenzy like you can low income workers with pointing the fingers at whose to blame. It annoys me, I always bring it up, but I also understand that no politician or party would ever take it up as an agenda as there would be absolute outcry and likely just feed bullets to the left to use

BarryD2

What did he say re the 9% tax rate on tourism related sales?

Freindly

BarryD2 wrote: »

What did he say re the 9% tax rate on tourism related sales?

Staying

veryangryman

Anyone who can decipher mortgage interest relief...

So i got Mortgage in 2007 and am in the third last year or extended relief at 30%

What do i get in next 2 years?

bloodless_coup

LeinsterDub wrote: »

What social services are proposing cutting ? Since you want to cut spending ?

The majority of them.

LeinsterDub

TheDoc wrote: »

You know there are people who earn six figure salaries, who then get six figure bonuses, who absolutely deserve it?

I get what your general point is, and we need to look no further then our own politicians or public sector to see people unjustly rewarding themselves with bonuses or scheduled salary increases.

But for most people in the private sector a bonus is not a guarantee, and is a just reward for work well done etc.

This isn't about deserving it it's about a progressive tax policy. 250k PA 100% tax free would not be progressive it would be regressive. And if the proposed 100% on off bonus PA was introduced it would be abused like above.

BarryD2

McGrath sticking it to Sinn Fein and getting his retaliation in first!!

LeinsterDub

doylefe wrote: »

The majority of them.

Schools, health , roads, library , Gardai, Fire services?

I can't want to live in that nightmare

JeffKenna

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Schools, health , roads, library , Gardai, Fire services?

I can't want to live in that nightmare

The majority of our current spend is on social welfare. Not on services. Start there.

Thepoet85

I generally have no problem giving people who are struggling financially some help at Christmas.

Calling it a Christmas bonus is where I have an issue. It almost seems to encourage people to do less.

NinjaTruncs

Has anyone worked out how much the changes in tax bands and USC work out at? I've calculated that the Tax band change is worth €150 PA and the USC change is worth €51.8. If these are right it means workers get between €1 to ~€4 a week while those on the social get €5... a ****ing disgrace if that's the case, Leo must really think there is going to be an election next year.

Edit: I missed where the 5% rate was being reduced to 4.75%. That still means people on low less than 20K a year have gotten less out of this budget than people not working.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Assetbacked

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Has anyone worked out how much the changes in tax bands and USC work out at? I've calculated that the Tax band change is worth €150 PA and the USC change is worth €51.8. If these are right it means works get between €1 to ~€4 a week while those on the social get €5... a ****ing disgrace if that's the case, Leo must really think there is going to be an election next year.

This is making my blood boil. Absolute ****ing disgrace.

LeinsterDub

JeffKenna wrote: »

The majority of our current spend is on social welfare. Not on services. Start there.

So the old, young and the sick?
http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/#middle-link

pilly

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Has anyone worked out how much the changes in tax bands and USC work out at? I've calculated that the Tax band change is worth €150 PA and the USC change is worth €51.8. If these are right it means works get between €1 to ~€4 a week while those on the social get €5... a ****ing disgrace if that's the case, Leo must really think there is going to be an election next year.

Edit: I missed where the 5% rate was being reduced to 4.75%. That still means people on low less than 20K a year have gotten less out of this budget than people working.

Leo is not looking for votes from people on social welfare. He's looking after the people who get up in the morning, remember?

ednwireland

VinLieger wrote: »

Much like the MUP on alcohol, it has nothing to do with health either

or sugar tax all about raising revenue nothing to do with health.

Boy this threads quiet. Best thing about the gov at the moment is they had no scope for f***ng around so more is left alone . Although they are trying there best to mess things up.

pilly

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Has anyone worked out how much the changes in tax bands and USC work out at? I've calculated that the Tax band change is worth €150 PA and the USC change is worth €51.8. If these are right it means works get between €1 to ~€4 a week while those on the social get €5... a ****ing disgrace if that's the case, Leo must really think there is going to be an election next year.

Edit: I missed where the 5% rate was being reduced to 4.75%. That still means people on low less than 20K a year have gotten less out of this budget than people working.

People on less than 20k per year will be on a social welfare payment if they have family.

TheDoc

LeinsterDub wrote: »

This isn't about deserving it it's about a progressive tax policy. 250k PA 100% tax free would not be progressive it would be regressive. And if the proposed 100% on off bonus PA was introduced it would be abused like above.

Progressive and regressive really doesn't come into it when it comes to workers bonus payments. By definition it's a bonus, not guaranteed income, and a reward. It should be exempt from the typical tax theory and mindset.

In terms of "abuse", I'd call the likes of guaranteed bonus structures in various public sectors, to be an abuse, since there is no grading or markings for it, it's just given. But I wouldn't begrudge anyone a bonus, I just get thick when 51% of mine gets whipped, as it's a totally performance related bonus, not guaranteed each year that I work hard towards.

Anyway it's a tangent, like I said, no politician or party would go near even discussing it

NinjaTruncs

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Has anyone worked out how much the changes in tax bands and USC work out at? I've calculated that the Tax band change is worth €150 PA and the USC change is worth €51.8. If these are right it means workers get between €1 to ~€4 a week while those on the social get €5... a ****ing disgrace if that's the case, Leo must really think there is going to be an election next year.

Edit: I missed where the 5% rate was being reduced to 4.75%. That still means people on low less than 20K a year have gotten less out of this budget than people not working.

Someone has to pick up the water charges bill, those working

Donal55

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Has anyone worked out how much the changes in tax bands and USC work out at? I've calculated that the Tax band change is worth €150 PA and the USC change is worth €51.8. If these are right it means workers get between €1 to ~€4 a week while those on the social get €5... a ****ing disgrace if that's the case, Leo must really think there is going to be an election next year.

Edit: I missed where the 5% rate was being reduced to 4.75%. That still means people on low less than 20K a year have gotten less out of this budget than people not working.

So much for getting out of the bed early in the morning. Would probably be better off pulling up the blanket and turning over.

Assetbacked

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So the old, young and the sick?
http://www.publicpolicy.ie/where-does-your-tax-go/#middle-link

This is silly to simplify categories into "old, young and sick". That is not how these categories should be defined. The parameters around what entitles an aging person or a sick person to obtain assistance need to be refined. For example, just because one is old does not mean they should get a state pension.

LeinsterDub

TheDoc wrote: »

Progressive and regressive really doesn't come into it when it comes to workers bonus payments. By definition it's a bonus, not guaranteed income, and a reward. It should be exempt from the typical tax theory and mindset.

I worked for company for many years with a guaranteed bonus. You're suggesting writing a massive loop hole into our tax law.

I start a company they give me a bonus of 80% of my annual wage when I start , tax free! The other 20% is paid monthly and isn't taxed because it's so small.

Net result 100% tax free.

Hitman3000

Augeo wrote:

Someone has to pick up the water charges bill, those working

Working people also protested against water charges. Just for clarity sake.

myshirt

I am disappointed they did not increase taxes on welfare to the baby boomer middle class. Most of this section of middle class have seen property prices and passive income increase hand over fist since they first bought the house, and at no expense to them.

I would have liked to see this taxed, especially since the younger workers now pay for this. Public borrowing is taxation delayed, as we know. One generation benefited from direct government intervention. The other didn't. One now pays for the loan. The other doesn't.

CAT thresholds should have came down, CAT rates up, Property tax up, and adjustments to the PPR exemption on capital gains.

Need to tax work less, and tax passive income more, especially inherited wealth to ensure we don't perpetuate inequality from the outset.