Budget 2018 - Mod note in post #1

VinLieger

myshirt wrote: »

Jack O'Connor is off again if anyone is watching Primetime. This man is unreal.

Absolute hypocrite, he's earning some insane money compared to his union's members

VinLieger

Hitman3000 wrote: »

FG are in the driving seat, you can claim otherwise all you wish. If of course FG are unhappy with the budget they can vote against. It would be interesting to see a government collapse itself.

Do you understand how limited a minority govenrment is? They have to get FF to agree to everything or nothing happens. FG may be in power but unless they have FF on board they dont get anywhere.

server down

BoatMad wrote: »

what a bizarre confusion , given that FF wrote half this budget and largely the half that increased spending



when a country is in " good shape" thats precisely the time NOT to give any tax cuts, surely 2000+ has shown you that . All you do is overheat the economy and drive up prices and then wage demands



its in grand shape , steady as she goes ...

If you don’t give tax cuts during a boom you need to have reserves to give tax cuts during a recession. Otherwise you don’t get the Keynesian counter cyclical policies working correctly. And taxes only ever go up.

Hitman3000

VinLieger wrote:

Do you understand how limited a minority govenrment is? They have to get FF to agree to everything or nothing happens. FG may be in power but unless they have FF on board they dont get anywhere.

So eventhough FG is in government, it's FF fault. Sound so. It was Labour's fault 2 years ago.

blackwhite

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

Even with this second consecutive increases the dole is still lower than it was 11 years ago. Cost of living has gone up massively in that time.

We're nowhere near full employment, if we were then the government wouldn't have needed another silly scheme like Jobpath.

If you want my weekly fiver idbatterim, I'll give it to ya, it's clearly causing you more distress than it will do to improve my life.

Not intended as a pop at you personally - but the first sentence sums up one of the biggest problems we have with the public attitude in this country.

Comparing the welfare rates to what they were at the height of the boom is completely ridiculous (same goes for comparing wage rates - as every high profile wage dispute at the minute is trying to do).

There seems to be a huge cohort in the country who seem to think that the highly inflated spending of the Celtic Tiger was actually a good thing, and should be taken as a baseline level for spending levels.

The reason the crash hit this country so badly was that, as well as massive borrowings, we had inflated so many elements of our public spending to excessive levels.

That so many people still haven't learned the lessons from this, and think that those excessive levels are the baseline that should be taken as a starting point for spending, is a poor reflection on the Irish electorate.

VinLieger

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So eventhough FG is in government, it's FF fault. Sound so. It was Labour's fault 2 years ago.

You need to learn to read what people are saying. They are both equally responsible for the mess in that the budget is all over the place

Hitman3000

VinLieger wrote:

You need to learn to read what people are saying. They are both equally responsible for the mess in that the budget is all over the place

They're not though. FG is ultimately responsible as they are the main governing party. If they are unhappy with their mess collapse the government and go to the people. Simple.

VinLieger

Hitman3000 wrote: »

They're not though. FG is ultimately responsible as they are the main governing party. If they are unhappy with their mess collapse the government and go to the people. Simple.

Similarly FF could collapse the government by voting down the budget or proposing a vote of no confidence which they would get the support of the rest of the opposition for. They don't and therefore are responsible for the government staying in power.

I dont know why you are so adamant to refuse to accept that FF have a modicum of responsibility and control here too.

lawred2

Irish_rat wrote: »

The lack of investment in infrastructure is chronic. I'd happily give up my cup of coffee every week for the start of MN

I'd like to see a Dublin city tax paid by all workers in Dublin.. €1 a week from everyone working in Dublin city and county regardless of income levels. Solely for the purposes of funding infrastructure in Dublin.

server down

blackwhite wrote: »

Not intended as a pop at you personally - but the first sentence sums up one of the biggest problems we have with the public attitude in this country.

Comparing the welfare rates to what they were at the height of the boom is completely ridiculous (same goes for comparing wage rates - as every high profile wage dispute at the minute is trying to do).

There seems to be a huge cohort in the country who seem to think that the highly inflated spending of the Celtic Tiger was actually a good thing, and should be taken as a baseline level for spending levels.

The reason the crash hit this country so badly was that, as well as massive borrowings, we had inflated so many elements of our public spending to excessive levels.

That so many people still haven't learned the lessons from this, and think that those excessive levels are the baseline that should be taken as a starting point for spending, is a poor reflection on the Irish electorate.

I mean wages have to go past boom levels sometime. Or else it’s decades of stagnation.

One_Of_Shanks

Was there nothing done for inheritance tax? I thought FG had said they would increase it to 500,000 from parent to child but seems they didn't change it at all in this budget or did I miss something?

VinLieger

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd like to see a Dublin city tax paid by all workers in Dublin.. €1 a week from everyone working in Dublin city and county regardless of income levels. Solely for the purposes of funding infrastructure in Dublin.

Good luck with getting something like that past the socialists

Hitman3000

VinLieger wrote:

Similarly FF could collapse the government by voting down the budget or proposing a vote of no confidence which they would get the support of the rest of the opposition for. They don't and therefore are responsible for the government staying in power.

Not in FF's interests to collapse the government, the electorate won't take kindly to whatever party does that. Better for FF to let FG catch it in the neck for this mess (as you put it) of a budget.

boardsuser1

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd like to see a Dublin city tax paid by all workers in Dublin.. €1 a week from everyone working in Dublin city and county regardless of income levels. Solely for the purposes of funding infrastructure in Dublin.

Ssshhhhhhh

This could catch on for everywhere else in the future.

VinLieger

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

Was there nothing done for inheritance tax? I thought FG had said they would increase it to 500,000 from parent to child but seems they didn't change it at all in this budget or did I miss something?

Im gonna guess FF may have taken an axe to that for some reason, its the only thing that makes sense considering how gung ho FG have been about it

Hitman3000

VinLieger wrote:

I dont know why you are so adamant to refuse to accept that FF have a modicum of responsibility and control here too.

They don't though, it's entirely up to FG to allow that control. FG has an option which you refuse to recognise.

VinLieger

Hitman3000 wrote: »

They don't though, it's entirely up to FG to allow that control. FG has an option which you refuse to recognise.

No im not im saying both have control, you are actually the one refusing to recognise FF have control and responsibility, you are going around in circles here and making zero sense

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Why doesn't everyone do then? Sounds great.

Oh I know, cos it's bollocks.

I, too, know people who are surviving on social welfare and your little scenario doesn't fit and if it did, the whole bloody country would go on the dole and stay there.

Self respect, drive, a determination to provide for yourself and contribute to society and not to be a bum all your life.

Geuze

Straffan1979 wrote: »

not the 'many' I know- want to win the next election get rid of USC; its toxic - it constantly reminds people we're paying for the Celtic Tiger every week u open the payslip.

Grand.

Merging USC with PRSI means USC is gone, that should appease people.

Note that does not mean that overall taxes will fall, as they can't, as we have an ageing pop to support.

All it means is that one deduction disappears from the payslip.

blackwhite

server down wrote: »

I mean wages have to go past boom levels sometime. Or else it’s decades of stagnation.

Indeed they do - at some time, but not necessarily now. The point where levels pass the boom rates should happen based on sensible annual growth rates, in line with cost of living increases. The constant screaming about how people want things to go back to Celtic Tiger levels just shows a lack of understanding as to how out of control public spending was in the Bertie years.

Using the boom numbers - which any sane personal can see were outliers - as the benchmark is insane.

Much more meaningful to look at growth in wages, welfare, and other spending from a benchmark before the Celtic Tiger threw things askew, and see how that compares to the growth in the cost of living, the CPI, etc.

Hitman3000

Augeo wrote:

Self respect, drive, a determination to provide for yourself and contribute to society and not to be a bum all your life.

Yeah but it's still bollix aswell.

Geuze

Trampas wrote: »

Why do social protection department need more money when there are more people working?

Where's all that money gone?

DSP exp to fall next year, I heard.

boardsuser1

Geuze wrote: »

DSP exp to fall next year, I heard.

After the election is it

Hitman3000

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Yeah but it's still bollix aswell.

I know lots of lots of folk in their mid to late 30s and older who have nice accommodation for very little and they've been unemployed for 10/15 years plus..... a kid or two is par for the course too.

A decent proportion of folk on SW are milking it.

Tony EH

Originally Posted by Tony EH
Why doesn't everyone do then? Sounds great.

Oh I know, cos it's bollocks.

I, too, know people who are surviving on social welfare and your little scenario doesn't fit and if it did, the whole bloody country would go on the dole and stay there.

Augeo wrote: »

Self respect, drive, a determination to provide for yourself and contribute to society and not to be a bum all your life.

Bullshit.

The REAL reason is that they know that it's a terrible way to exist and making ends meet on the dole is extremely difficult, if not impossible in some cases.

They know that it's nowhere near the stupid scenario that some bitter clowns want to portray it as, as a life of leisure, with free gaffs, holidays to foreign shores, cars, drink, drugs and whatever you're having yourself.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

Tony EH

Tony EH wrote: »

Bullshit.

The REAL reason is that they know that it's a terrible way to exist and making ends meet on the dole is extremely difficult, if not impossible in some cases.

They know that it's nowhere near the stupid scenario that some bitter clowns want to portray it as, as a life of leisure, with free gaffs, holidays to foreign shores, cars, drink, drugs and whatever you're having yourself.

I know quite a few single ladies with sprogs who live in nice enough houses, have cars and go on foreign holidays every year or so and DO NOT work.

keane2097

Idbatterim wrote: »

People have a large issue with the welfare increases. Voting for any of the alternatives is now a blatant waste of time. The Irish version of the torries i.e. Fg, would probably be deemed left of centre in U.K.!!!

Anyone pissec off about he situation and there are a serious number all over social media and under comments section on newspapers, well, if you havent woken up and smelled the coffee fool me once ... we've been taken for a ride too many times...

Re:Renua - I think the majority of the electorate wouldn't see the idea of handing the country back to the church as a fair exchange for getting a fiver back off supposed dole scroungers.

Tony EH

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Says you.

The dept of Welfare says it isn't.

1 person actually caught in the first six months of this year. It cost more money to institute a campaign of catching supposed welfare fraudsters, than it was worth.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

ELM327

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd like to see a Dublin city tax paid by all workers in Dublin.. €1 a week from everyone working in Dublin city and county regardless of income levels. Solely for the purposes of funding infrastructure in Dublin.

What about those of us who work in Dublin but commute in from 60km away.
And sometimes are based in sites not in Dublin.
Is there a pro-rated tax?
How much is someone paid to calculate a 1 euro tax?

Its a great idea but should be directed at everyone living in dublin, including the free house brigade.

ELM327

Augeo wrote: »

I know quite a few single ladies with sprogs who live in nice enough houses, have cars and go on foreign holidays every year or so and DO NOT work.

+1 same here

Augeo wrote: »

Self respect, drive, a determination to provide for yourself and contribute to society and not to be a bum all your life.

+1
A message which it seems is lost amongst some people here, and on boards threads in general.

Tony EH

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You're not even making serious points. Just bitter ones.

If you think it's so great, go on the dole.

pilly

You know if everyone on here who knows someone on the fiddle would report them sure the social welfare bill would be cut in half, problem solved.

Tony EH

pilly wrote: »

You know if everyone on here who knows someone on the fiddle would report them sure the social welfare bill would be cut in half, problem solved.

Even if the bitters on here actually knew more than 10 people defrauding welfare, it would still be a drop in the ocean.

There's no doubt fraud exists, but it's not the problem some would have you believe.

The problem of the people whining in here is the dole, full stop. They are far from the societal bastions they'd have others believe.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

ELM327

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

+1
There should be a sliding scale, like the German model.
You receive a percentage of your former salary for a couple of years, then sliding right down to a sustenance amount only.

That change, and a change to "you don't get anything out until you've paid in" mentality would be the two changes I would love to see happen.

Tony EH

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How does that help people who are genuinely trying to get work and can't?

You tailor a system for people that need it, not for the few that game that system and certainly not for your own bitter pettiness.

Social welfare systems are to help people and in this country, more people than not will need to avail of it in some way in their lives.

The vast majority of people FIND themselves on the dole through no fault of their own and can't wait to get off of it as soon as they can. It's demeaning, difficult to survive on and the target of **** who are simply unable to focus on anything else.

Most people don't want to be on the dole, but by christ, they're glad of it when the need it, including the big mouth scrap/reduce the dole types on Boards, who - and there isn't a single doubt in mind about this - are straight down their local dole office when the shit hits the fan for themselves.

Tony EH

ELM327 wrote: »

+1
There should be a sliding scale, like the German model.

Germany has a consistent level of job creation in their country, even after two devastating wars.

Ireland has a consistent level of bust and levels of unemployment that go with that.

The two nations aren't comparable.

ELM327

Tony EH wrote: »

Germany has a consistent level of job creation in their country, even after two devastating wars.

Ireland has a consistent level of bust and levels of unemployment that go with that.

The two nations aren't comparable.

So.. due to our badly managed country with parish pump politics, we should also have a badly managed social welfare system which is wide open to abuse?

Tony EH

ELM327 wrote: »

So.. due to our badly managed country with parish pump politics, we should also have a badly managed social welfare system which is wide open to abuse?

This is nonsense. Abuse is minuscule.

Quit your job, go on the dole, commit your fraud.

Then come here and tell us how you got on.

Cyrus

Tony EH wrote: »

Even if the bitters on here actually knew more than 10 people defrauding welfare, it would still be a drop in the ocean.

There's no doubt fraud exists, but it's not the problem some would have you believe.

The problem of the people whining in here is the dole, full stop. They are far from the societal bastions they'd have others believe.

the bitters

you mean the funders

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

If you work in this country you're screwed.BUT if you lie in bed you get extras.
Time the workers stood up for themselves.

That's funny. I was in college/on the dole for a number of years, living with the parents and had a holiday roughly every 3 years. Since I started working less 2 years ago I've paid off a few grand of debt, moved into a nice apartment with a mate, bought a car and saved a few grand and that's on not much more than minimum wage. And it's also funny that I can think of a good dozen people I know who were on the dole til a couple of years ago who have since got jobs and not one of them has decided to say "Actually, nah, I preferred the dole life.".

never_mind

Deleted User wrote: »

That's funny. I was in college/on the dole for a number of years, living with the parents and had a holiday roughly every 3 years. Since I started working less 2 years ago I've paid off a few grand of debt, moved into a nice apartment with a mate, bought a car and saved a few grand and that's on not much more than minimum wage. And it's also funny that I can think of a good dozen people I know who were on the dole til a couple of years ago who have since got jobs and not one of them has decided to say "Actually, nah, I preferred the dole life.".

I will be copying and pasting this frequently.

Cyrus

Tony EH wrote: »

Most people don't want to be on the dole, but by christ, they're glad of it when the need it, including the big mouth scrap/reduce the dole types on Boards, who - and there isn't a single doubt in mind about this - are straight down their local dole office when the shit hits the fan for themselves.

very few people have an issue with assistance for people who find themselves out of work, its people who never work and live solely on state hand outs that people resent.

Quin_Dub

Quin_Dub wrote: »

All - Let's move on from the "Dole Scroungers" discussion please.

Everyone has their opinions that are unlikely to change , so going round and round here is a waste of everyones time.

Thanks

Just a reminder for everyone...

Tony EH

Cyrus wrote: »

very few people have an issue with assistance for people who find themselves out of work, its people who never work and live solely on state hand outs that people resent.

And this is my last word on this matter, cos of Mod direction above.

That number "who never work" is TINY.

It's silly to get one's nose bent out of shape over a TINY number.

The real reason is that it's nothing really to do with that TINY number, or fraud, or how "great" life on the rock'n'roll is.

It's the very notion of the dole itself.

Mr321

It was a sound good Budget I thought but when looked in to doesnt really change anything much across the board.

Has a waft of a general election not far away from it.

eagle eye

I don't think you should get one cent if you are on the dole. I say dole rather than benefit. If somebody has worked for over two years I've no problem with the being given money for up to two years.
Those over two years should have to sit down with somebody who works out what they need to survive. They then get everything ordered for them in a local supermarket and whatever other type of store is necessary and they go collect it.

There should be no alcohol or cigarettes available to these people.

This would avoid abuse of the system where you have alcoholics and druggies using the money to feed their habit and then their partner goes in and begs for and gets more state money because the problem partner spent it all. I can guarantee you there would be a lot less wasters on the dole if they had no money for cigarettes or alcohol, or drugs for that matter.

Baggly

eagle eye wrote: »

This would avoid abuse of the system where you have alcoholics and druggies using the money to feed their habit and then their partner goes in and begs for and gets more state money because the problem partner spent it all. I can guarantee you there would be a lot less wasters on the dole if they had no money for cigarettes or alcohol, or drugs for that matter.

Probably a lot more violent muggings and burglaries too.