2018 NFL Draft

D9Male

Jaysus, I assume Allen was the second guy?

brinty

D9Male wrote: »

Jaysus, I assume Allen was the second guy?

Yep Josh Allen was the second guy
Some scouts love him and think he could go no 1 overall, others hate him and predict him in round seven...
There are players like that every year.

Billy86

Who's the QB that there is talk of slipping down a good bit due to being 6'1 and half?

I get that being able to see over the line etc can be important, but there are few things more ridiculous than these claims at this point - if I recall Russell Wilson was seen as a prospect that ticked every box from leadership, to 'in the clutch', to athleticism, to arm strength, to off the field stuff (even if he can be a preachy fecker he doesn't seem to get in any trouble), to mechanics, and on and on. But just like Bart Simpson trying out for the Radioactive Man role "you're perfect! That's what I'd be telling you if you were 3cm taller", and lo and behold he dropped all the way to the mid third round, behind Osweiler, Weeden and Tannehill, but sure those lads are all 6'3+ don't ya know?

It's one of those things that really winds me up because of how much it's just an adherence to box ticking at this stage. Can't remember which QB I read it about but I jumped over to Google thinking there might be another Doug Flutie on the horizon, only to see he was 185-186cm tall (while Wilson is 180, Brees 183 and even Rodgers is only 2-3cm taller at 188).

EDIT: Indeed it was Mayfield, I haven't properly looked into any of the prospects yet but if he's an all around much better QB candidate than Allen and winds up getting dumped on account of Allen being taller...

letowski

Josh Allen has excellent measurements, athleticism and a cannon of an arm (like freakish arm strength). But as highlighted his accuracy and decision making is really poor, i think he has a 53% completion percentage in just the Mountain West Conference. So there is two ways of looking at him. I think teams would be interested in him in the 2nd round, if they are looking for a talent to develop and start say 3-4 years down the line. He seems fairly coachable and played in a similar pro-style offense Carson Wentz did. He is a true high risk pick.

Knex*

Billy86 wrote: »

Who's the QB that there is talk of slipping down a good bit due to being 6'1 and half?

I get that being able to see over the line etc can be important, but there are few things more ridiculous than these claims at this point - if I recall Russell Wilson was seen as a prospect that ticked every box from leadership, to 'in the clutch', to athleticism, to arm strength, to off the field stuff (even if he can be a preachy fecker he doesn't seem to get in any trouble), to mechanics, and on and on. But just like Bart Simpson trying out for the Radioactive Man role "you're perfect! That's what I'd be telling you if you were 3cm taller", and lo and behold he dropped all the way to the mid third round, behind Osweiler, Weeden and Tannehill, but sure those lads are all 6'3+ don't ya know?

It's one of those things that really winds me up because of how much it's just an adherence to box ticking at this stage. Can't remember which QB I read it about but I jumped over to Google thinking there might be another Doug Flutie on the horizon, only to see he was 185-186cm tall (while Wilson is 180, Brees 183 and even Rodgers is only 2-3cm taller at 188).

EDIT: Indeed it was Mayfield, I haven't properly looked into any of the prospects yet but if he's an all around much better QB candidate than Allen and winds up getting dumped on account of Allen being taller...

It's more that they have less wiggle room to compensate for any shortcomings. Like, Rivers for example would never get away with his throwing motion if he was 6ft. Weight is also something that comes into play, and that obviously has a correlation with height. I believe I read before that was one of the main things on Wilson. They weren't sure his body could take the punishment.

Tack on hand size too, actually. Wilson has massive hands though, iirc.

I think also Mayfield is being questioned because of character concerns which are raising a few flags. Being compared to Manziel both on and off the field, however accurate or not the comparisons may be, is never a good thing for your draft stock.

Billy86

Knex. wrote: »

It's more that they have less wiggle room to compensate for any shortcomings. Like, Rivers for example would never get away with his throwing motion if he was 6ft. Weight is also something that comes into play, and that obviously has a correlation with height. I believe I read before that was one of the main things on Wilson. They weren't sure his body could take the punishment.

Tack on hand size too, actually. Wilson has massive hands though, iirc.

I think also Mayfield is being questioned because of character concerns which are raising a few flags. Being compared to Manziel both on and off the field, however accurate or not the comparisons may be, is never a good thing for your draft stock.

It's a decent point on size/taking hits, but I guess the thing that set me off on it was just the correlation with Wilson who as you say has huge hands, and who is also a fairly bulky fella. Not a fan of his off the pitch but he's a phenomenal QB and I think that's the straw that broke the camels back for me about how obsessed with metrics etc teams can be. I didn't see him play at ND but coming into the draft all I can remember is constantly hearing how he might even be able to supplant Luck and/or RGIII for a top two pick in the entire draft (or be chosen third overall)... if only he were 5-6cm taller.

For some positions that stuff can be extremely telling, but there is so much more around QB than that. I can get it being a tie-breaker decision between two neck-and-neck prospects sure, but seeing him drop around 70-odd places for no other reason than that was pretty much bordering on hilarity.

Sorry for the rant, it's just one of my major, major hangups with the sport (or rather, drafting teams).

Paully D

Based on play alone, Mayfield is the best QB in the draft class by a significant distance IMO.

How anyone could watch tape of him and Allen and think Allen is a better pick is just beyond belief to me to be honest.

Billy86

I meant to add in my previous post, what are the character concerns around him? Again I'm still more or less oblivious to most prospects at the minute but am kind of curious since there's no position where character red flags are nearly as big a deal as QB.

brinty

Paully D wrote: »

Based on play alone, Mayfield is the best QB in the draft class by a significant distance IMO.

How anyone could watch tape of him and Allen and think Allen is a better pick is just beyond belief to me to be honest.

TBF and I think someone said it previously, Allen plays in a more pro style offence so the step up to NFL shouldn't be as difficult for him as it would be for Mayfield.

In saying that I agree Mayfield looks the better prospect and has played at a higher level than Allen.

Foxtrol

Billy86 wrote: »

I meant to add in my previous post, what are the character concerns around him? Again I'm still more or less oblivious to most prospects at the minute but am kind of curious since there's no position where character red flags are nearly as big a deal as QB.

He was arrested for being drunk early last year and he taunted opponents a few times, planting the school flag in the center of OU field and in another game he did a crotch chop across the sidelines after taking a ton of cheap shots during the game.

I think he is just competitive and it helps him more than it hinders. A decent portion of the press like to beat him up about anything though. He was late to Senior Bowl practice this week because his mother was in hospital and he still took heat for it.

I think I remember rivers having similar question marks coming out I don't think there is much malicious from what iv read

Billy86

Foxtrol wrote: »

He was arrested for being drunk early last year and he taunted opponents a few times, planting the school flag in the center of OU field and in another game he did a crotch chop across the sidelines after taking a ton of cheap shots during the game.

I think he is just competitive and it helps him more than it hinders. A decent portion of the press like to beat him up about anything though. He was late to Senior Bowl practice this week because his mother was in hospital and he still took heat for it.

The drunk thing is dumb but in isolation not so bad, the rest reminds me a bit of Philip Rivers who I've always been a pretty big fan of... as much a prick as he surely is to play against, he seems a good teammate kind of thing.

Paully D

https://twitter.com/robertklemko/status/956931938102792195

Ohmeha

letowski wrote: »

Josh Allen has excellent measurements, athleticism and a cannon of an arm (like freakish arm strength). But as highlighted his accuracy and decision making is really poor, i think he has a 53% completion percentage in just the Mountain West Conference. So there is two ways of looking at him. I think teams would be interested in him in the 2nd round, if they are looking for a talent to develop and start say 3-4 years down the line. He seems fairly coachable and played in a similar pro-style offense Carson Wentz did. He is a true high risk pick.

Yep he would be a 2nd round pick in normal circumstances who would need a couple of years development and learning off a veteran. Many of the early mock drafts I've seen tip him to go Top 10 because too many teams are desperate for a franchise QB who fits the 'prototype' and the 'measurables' aside from the fact anytime I've watched the guy he is plagued with inaccuracy which is backed up by his unspectacular stats.

If he has a solid combine then somebody will reach out for him. Though they all have one or two question marks Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield look safer bets to become NFL franchise QBs but Allen is definitely the most intriguing prospect of the lot as that arm talent is rare and would cause hell for defences with proper development.

tripperman

Watched the highlights of the senior bowl this morning, a few good performances that will have given there possible draft grade a big jump like Davenport, the qb from Richmond, this draft class as imo the best qb class seen in a few year's,

Knex*

tripperman wrote: »

Watched the highlights of the senior bowl this morning, a few good performances that will have given there possible draft grade a big jump like Davenport, the qb from Richmond, this draft class as imo the best qb class seen in a few year's,

Kyle Lauletta. Apparently had a stomach virus too and we getting sick during interviews!

Deco99

Not seeing much online but is Shaquem Griffin expected to get drafted? See plenty about him and his story but no real suggestion of the likelihood a team will pick him

Ohmeha

Ohmeha wrote: »

Yep he would be a 2nd round pick in normal circumstances who would need a couple of years development and learning off a veteran. Many of the early mock drafts I've seen tip him to go Top 10 because too many teams are desperate for a franchise QB who fits the 'prototype' and the 'measurables' aside from the fact anytime I've watched the guy he is plagued with inaccuracy which is backed up by his unspectacular stats.

If he has a solid combine then somebody will reach out for him. Though they all have one or two question marks Rosen, Darnold and Mayfield look safer bets to become NFL franchise QBs but Allen is definitely the most intriguing prospect of the lot as that arm talent is rare and would cause hell for defences with proper development.

That's basically what Blake bortles was right?

Knex*

Well, after the Senior Bowl his stock has risen anyway. He'll be taken in the first, and probably ahead of Mayfield, imo.

Three months until the draft now. It's still aaaaages away.

brinty

Knex. wrote: »

Well, after the Senior Bowl his stock has risen anyway. He'll be taken in the first, and probably ahead of Mayfield, imo.

Three months until the draft now. It's still aaaaages away.

Too far unfortunately
Still debating if I’d go or not
Is anyone else going

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

With all the QBs available I think it would make a lot of sense for the Browns to take Barkley with the first overall. Barring a trade or 2 one of Darnold or Rosen would still be available at 4, and you still have Mayfield and Allen. If the Browns sort QB and RB in the same draft things would look a lot better in Cleveland, and there's no chance Barkley falls to 4.

Foxtrol

Big Pussy Bonpensiero wrote: »

With all the QBs available I think it would make a lot of sense for the Browns to take Barkley with the first overall. Barring a trade or 2 one of Darnold or Rosen would still be available at 4, and you still have Mayfield and Allen. If the Browns sort QB and RB in the same draft things would look a lot better in Cleveland, and there's no chance Barkley falls to 4.

Depends if they really like one of the QBs. After turning down several chances to draft a QB high over the last few years they might as well get the guy they really believe in when they have the opportunity rather than hoping he stays until later. If they they rank each similarly then your strategy makes sense. I wouldn't rule out the Browns spending big on an FA QB and then using these picks elsewhere or trading down again for more magic beans. A veteran QB might be a better fit for such a young team, they have some young QBs they can try to nurture behind a solid starter, and a QB with a name might be more attractive to some FAs than putting you career for the next few years in the hands of a rookie getting up to speed quickly.

Billy86

The Browns taking a QB in the first would be the dumbest drafting decision they have made in over 10 years, and that's saying an awful, awful lot given Cleveland's drafting history.

ELM327

Foxtrol wrote: »

Depends if they really like one of the QBs. After turning down several chances to draft a QB high over the last few years they might as well get the guy they really believe in when they have the opportunity rather than hoping he stays until later. If they they rank each similarly then your strategy makes sense. I wouldn't rule out the Browns spending big on an FA QB and then using these picks elsewhere or trading down again for more magic beans. A veteran QB might be a better fit for such a young team, they have some young QBs they can try to nurture behind a solid starter, and a QB with a name might be more attractive to some FAs than putting you career for the next few years in the hands of a rookie getting up to speed quickly.

There's going to be a number of established QB possibly on the FA market this offseason. I'd imagine one of them and some surrounding cast would be a much better decision than another QB inthe first round.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

Billy86 wrote: »

The Browns taking a QB in the first would be the dumbest drafting decision they have made in over 10 years, and that's saying an awful, awful lot given Cleveland's drafting history.

This is the most ridiculous statement. If the Browns take Rosen or Darnold in the first and they turn into the next Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees is that going to be a dumb decision?

ELM327

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

This is the most ridiculous statement. If the Browns take Rosen or Darnold in the first and they turn into the next Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees is that going to be a dumb decision?

With the browns record of 1st round QB busts that's not likely to happen though

Knex*

Ideal scenario for Browns would be throw money at Cousins, draft Barkley at 1 and Fitzpatrick at 4.

That would be a big turnaround for the franchise.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

ELM327 wrote: »

With the browns record of 1st round QB busts that's not likely to happen though

Its still not dumb for them to take Rosen or Darnold. Both look like quality Qb's better than what they have presently!

Adamocovic

Browns should use both their first round picks on QBs and hope one of them works out

Billy86

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

This is the most ridiculous statement. If the Browns take Rosen or Darnold in the first and they turn into the next Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees is that going to be a dumb decision?

The Browns have repeatedly shown they are in absolutely no position to develop a young QB, have not been for quite some time, and will continue to not be until they improve on the rest of their roster which they won't do if they keep blowing their top picks on QBs being drafted into a team in no position to develop a young QB.

Look at Jacksonville and the Rams, they turned things around by strengthening their whole teams through the draft and spending high picks on players in other positions, both sexy and unsexy ones, and came up with the basis of quality units to build around from it to the point they both won their divisions this year, Jacksonville only with a game manager quality QB in Bortles. So long as Cleveland keep flinging those picks at young QBs doomed to fail there they won't be improving at all, and will possibly find themselves in positions where 'cannot miss' rookies just point blank refuse to be drafted by/sign with them.

Brady, Brees nor Rodgers would have become the players they are being drafted into this Cleveland team - pretty nobody would. Yet even when someone like Cody Kessler does OK there, they just offloaded him for another high pick QB who they're rumoured to now be offloading for yet another high round QB again this season having only given Kessler 23 pass attempts last season... because they instead were focusing on Kizer despite him struggling so badly... who they're now apparently about to drop so they can just land someone else in the same situation.

They really are the very worst team the league has seen in 30+ years, and quite possibly since the merger back in the 1960s.

Knex*

Adamocovic wrote: »

Browns should use both their first round picks on QBs and hope one of them works out

They could honestly do a Redskins on it and take someone in the 2nd or 3rd, as well as one of the main QBs at 1 or 4.

Lot of people wondered why they took Cousins in the 3rd after trading the farm for RGIII.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

Billy86 wrote: »

The Browns have repeatedly shown they are in absolutely no position to develop a young QB, have not been for quite some time, and will continue to not be until they improve on the rest of their roster which they won't do if they keep blowing their top picks on QBs being drafted into a team in no position to develop a young QB.

Look at Jacksonville and the Rams, they turned things around by strengthening their whole teams through the draft and spending high picks on players in other positions, both sexy and unsexy ones, and came up with the basis of quality units to build around from it to the point they both won their divisions this year, Jacksonville only with a game manager quality QB in Bortles. So long as Cleveland keep flinging those picks at young QBs doomed to fail there they won't be improving at all, and will possibly find themselves in positions where 'cannot miss' rookies just point blank refuse to be drafted by/sign with them.

Brady, Brees nor Rodgers would have become the players they are being drafted into this Cleveland team - pretty nobody would. Yet even when someone like Cody Kessler does OK there, they just offloaded him for another high pick QB who they're rumoured to now be offloading for yet another high round QB again this season having only given Kessler 23 pass attempts last season... because they instead were focusing on Kizer despite him struggling so badly... who they're now apparently about to drop so they can just land someone else in the same situation.

They really are the very worst team the league has seen in 30+ years, and quite possibly since the merger back in the 1960s.

To be fair you've a reasoned argument for your statement. But IMO to think they shouldn't take Rosen or Darnold in the first round is shortsighted. They took the best player approach last year and Garrett looks the real deal. In addition they have a tonne of picks and cap space, they can improve alot this year.

Their defence did improve slightly last year and they got back Gordon who looked rusty but still the quality WR he was prior to the bans. They have a mass of picks in this years draft that can help improve them dramatically but its still down the evaluation of personnel office. The draft is a lottery at the best of times.

Oh and just to point out that Jacksonville and the Rams .. their Qb's were picked in the first round third overall and in the first round first overall.

Adamocovic

Knex. wrote: »

They could honestly do a Redskins on it and take someone in the 2nd or 3rd, as well as one of the main QBs at 1 or 4.

Lot of people wondered why they took Cousins in the 3rd after trading the farm for RGIII.

I remember telling my friend after the draft that Cousins would eventually win over the starting role. About the only correct call I've made :P.

Normally I'd agree but that Browns team has gone through so many QBs that I agree with others saying they should build a unit around a QB, acquire a veteran and then look at adding a young potential franchise guy when things are in place. They've gone through 28 different QBs since 1999.

ELM327

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Its still not dumb for them to take Rosen or Darnold. Both look like quality Qb's better than what they have presently!

They could take a genetically modified clone of Brett Favre, remove the interceptions, and still he would suck on a browns team. No matter who is there, they can't develop him.

They need to go down the texans route. Build the team so they can then get a QB and a) have an oline to protect him and b) a stout defense so they arent always chasing games.

One of those picks for potential sb winning qb nick foles please

ELM327

You know, in the game against MIN, Nick foles played really well. As he has done in any game I've seen him in. And didnt he have that phenomenal 29/2 season?

He could be a good QB in the right system

Adamocovic

ELM327 wrote: »

You know, in the game against MIN, Nick foles played really well. As he has done in any game I've seen him in. And didnt he have that phenomenal 29/2 season?

He could be a good QB in the right system

Still yet to throw a pick in the post-season too :P

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

You know, in the game against MIN, Nick foles played really well. As he has done in any game I've seen him in. And didnt he have that phenomenal 29/2 season?

He could be a good QB in the right system

He's only been bad for Jeff fisher and that guys qb kryptonite as it turns out.

His 29/2 season he has a few lucky dropped picks in fairness and he was playing in a hurry up offence that was deatrying the league at the time

Paully D

Full steam ahead now lads.

phatkev

Paully D wrote: »

Full steam ahead now lads.

Cant wait for the months of mock drafts getting my hopes up!

brinty

phatkev wrote: »

Cant wait for the months of mock drafts getting my hopes up!

You mean you haven't been doing the mock drafts already...
I've paid my $10 to Fanspeak... and doing them since the end of college football season!!!

phatkev

brinty wrote: »

You mean you haven't been doing the mock drafts already...
I've paid my $10 to Fanspeak... and doing them since the end of college football season!!!

ah thats only tormenting yourself, makes the offseason seem even longer for me! No mock drafts for me until free agency is underway

Paully D

Matt Miller has his first mock out.

Darnold going to the Browns at #1, Rosen to the Giants at #2, Barkley to the Browns at #4, Allen to the Broncos at #5 and Mayfield to the Dolphins at #11.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2757373-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions?share=twitter

Billy86

Paully D wrote: »

Matt Miller has his first mock out.

Darnold going to the Browns at #1, Rosen to the Giants at #2, Barkley to the Browns at #4, Allen to the Broncos at #5 and Mayfield to the Dolphins at #11.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2757373-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-post-super-bowl-predictions?share=twitter

Went to check, and surely enough... "He's well under the league's threshold for height at the position—traditionally 6'2" to Mayfield's 6'0 ⅜"—"

Sweet f***ing Jesus they'll never learn.

brinty

Billy86 wrote: »

Went to check, and surely enough... "He's well under the league's threshold for height at the position—traditionally 6'2" to Mayfield's 6'0 ⅜"—"

Sweet f***ing Jesus they'll never learn.

Checked his Dallas picks and says the same re Maurice Hurst being undersized....

some guys you just have to laugh at...

#clueless

adrian522

I don't think he's clueless I think he's one of the better draft analysts out there. Very easy to throw around hashtags like that based on one word.

tripperman

Baker Mayfields height is not important, to me he reminds of Drew Brees with the potential to make big play's with his arm and extend them if needed,

eagle eye

That's a lazy analysis. If you are going to say he reminds you of Drew Brees then go through
the reasons, besides height, that make him similar to Brees.

tripperman

eagle eye wrote: »

That's a lazy analysis. If you are going to say he reminds you of Drew Brees then go through
the reasons, besides height, that make him similar to Brees.

It's not an analysis it's just an opinion, I haven't done enough watching on him just yet to give an exact list, but his ability to climb the pocket make reads and deliver the ball under pressure are some of the best I've seen in a few years

mikemac2

So many analysts just give an Alabama player to the Ravens in the first, any ‘Bama player will do

I’m sure they think it’s clever insight but it’s a bit lazy imo and if they checked the records Ozzie Newsome took an Alabama 1st round pick just twice in 21 years