2018 NFL Draft

Jolly Red Giant

cosatron wrote: »

The browns have hired Scot McCloughan as draft consultant and his scouting in the later rounds is second to none and his high on Baker Mayfield, so what could happen is take Barkley at 1 and chubb at 4 and take Mayfield in the second round, or trade 4 for a few picks as i don't think Mayfield will go in the first 15 picks.

There isn't a hope in hell Mayfield makes it past the top ten - never mind the second round.

The following teams need a QB - Browns, Broncos, Jets, Cardinals, Bills - plus the Giants, Colts, Vikings, Miami, Chargers and Steelers (Rivers and Ben are getting old), Jags - even the Pats need a QB.

One of Broncos, Jets, Vikings or Cardinals will get Cousins - after that there will be a mad scramble from the other teams most in need, with people looking to trade up, to get the 4 QBs. I suspect that all four will be gone by 1.7 or 1.10 at the latest (and interestingly the pundits are suggesting that Rosen will be the one to drop because of his injury history and he is so static in the pocket)

Foxtrol

gstack166 wrote: »

There’s 4 QBs in the first round mix and only one solid RB competing for a top 5 spot. Take Barkley first overall and pick your QB at 4, it’s so simple, but it is the Browns we are talking about.

That’s fine if they rate all QBs the same but as a supposedly professional outfit they should have a preference for the guy they see as the best fit for them, the 5 top QBs are very different. Saying we’ll take what is left is the lazy and cowardly option and it is similar that likely got the last regime fired.

gstack166

Foxtrol wrote: »

That’s fine if they rate all QBs the same but as a supposedly professional outfit they should have a preference for the guy they see as the best fit for them, the 5 top QBs are very different. Saying we’ll take what is left is the lazy and cowardly option and it is similar that likely got the last regime fired.

I don’t think it’s the be all and end all to be honest. There has been good teams with average to below QB’s that have done ok lately, Bortles & the Jags comes to mind as an example. I get what you’re saying totally, but this Barkley kid seems like a once in a generation talent, when you have holes everywhere, you must pick the best player on the board in my opinion, and that’s him.

adrian522

I love the way there seem to be a once in generation talent in every draft. Pretty short generations I guess.

cosatron

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

There isn't a hope in hell Mayfield makes it past the top ten - never mind the second round.

The following teams need a QB - Browns, Broncos, Jets, Cardinals, Bills - plus the Giants, Colts, Vikings, Miami, Chargers and Steelers (Rivers and Ben are getting old), Jags - even the Pats need a QB.

One of Broncos, Jets, Vikings or Cardinals will get Cousins - after that there will be a mad scramble from the other teams most in need, with people looking to trade up, to get the 4 QBs. I suspect that all four will be gone by 1.7 or 1.10 at the latest (and interestingly the pundits are suggesting that Rosen will be the one to drop because of his injury history and he is so static in the pocket)

do you think Mayfield is top ten talent though, ive read that he could end up like russel Wilson or johnny manziel. His a bit undersized and has character issues. would you be happy if the bronco's took him?

brinty

adrian522 wrote: »

I love the way there seem to be a once in generation talent in every draft. Pretty short generations I guess.

Sure don't ye know in each of the last three draft classes there's been a transcendent once in a generation running back available... :rolleyes:
There's always a sure thing Edge Rusher/ Defensive end...
And a can't miss guard/ o tackle..

gstack166

adrian522 wrote: »

I love the way there seem to be a once in generation talent in every draft. Pretty short generations I guess.

Always mods with the smart ones.
Seeing as he is tipped to be the first RB in 20 years to go #1 would that constitute a) being a generation talent & b) being a generation since it last occurred?

brinty

gstack166 wrote: »

Always mods with the smart ones.
Seeing as he is tipped to be the first RB in 20 years to go #1 would that constitute a) being a generation talent & b) being a generation since it last occurred?

a) no it would not say he's a generational talent, just that other players in this class aren't as good - is he better than Elliot or Fournette
b) depends on your definition of a generation but i think 20 years is roughly about a generation.. in my eyes anyways

gstack166

brinty wrote: »

a) no it would not say he's a generational talent, just that other players in this class aren't as good - is he better than Elliot or Fournette
b) depends on your definition of a generation but i think 20 years is roughly about a generation.. in my eyes anyways

That’s why the oringinal post said ‘seems like a generational talent’ obviously just by the draft pick you can’t determine if he is or isn’t, but his numbers going by the combine seem to project he would be better than Fournette & Elliot.

EDIT: can’t post pictures but I’ve just copied this off of the TMMQB on SI:
• Barkleymania. Penn State running back Saquon Barkley put some distance between himself and the field for the best player in the draft. “He’s the best running back prospect I’ve seen in 25 years,” Saints coach Sean Payton told me. Another team, which had given only four draft prospects perfect grades in the last 20 years, told me Barkley is the fifth.

Billy86

adrian522 wrote: »

I love the way there seem to be a once in generation talent in every draft. Pretty short generations I guess.

'A' once in a generation draft? There are usually more than just one! And the highest ceiling QB prospect in 10 years seems to come about 3 out of every 4 years as well.

I'm just praying on a run on everything but EDGE guys... wishful thinking with that position, but if Clay Matthews took a paycut while him and Nick Perry with just Vince Biegel behind them leaves quite a bit to be desired (esp. due to both being injury prone), adding someone like Chubb or Edmunds into that makes a huge change all around (and would allow Matthews to move to ILB at times which they never should have moved away from after he did so well playing across the LB spots a few years back... but if it works, you could always trust Capers to keep "fixing it" until it didn't, then leaving it as is). It would never happen with Ted Thompson who loved to trade down, but if we were to trade up for one of those two without an outrageous price to do so I would be over the moon.

NinetyTwoTeam

Barkley is the real deal, I think he's better than Zeke and Fournette easily. He's a better receiver than both for starters, higher top speed. Doesn't have the injury history like F or the character issues like Z. Outside of Bama and Georgia the most NFL like defenses in college were Michigan and Washington, he smoked them both.

I wouldn't take any of the QBs at 1 or 4, tbh none of them are convincing. I'd take Saquon at 1 and WR James Washington at 4, the best RB and best WR, both NFL ready. won't matter what QB you take if the cupboard is bare and the Browns need a lot more on offense. Gordon can't be relied on, Coleman is injury prone, other than that all they have is Ndjoku.

Darnold is a turnover machine, led the league in turnovers, Rosen looked good at times but hard to judge because he was on a bad team. Mayfield is a punk but he has that it factor, is the most mobile and he torched Georgia, they should have been in the final but the coach messed up and called an end around in OT. Still dunno if he's worth a top 5 pick.

If I was taking one of them at 4 it would be Rosen. 2nd round if Baker is gone I'd take Josh Allen, if he's gone maybe Mason Rudolph.

Foxtrol

gstack166 wrote: »

I don’t think it’s the be all and end all to be honest. There has been good teams with average to below QB’s that have done ok lately, Bortles & the Jags comes to mind as an example. I get what you’re saying totally, but this Barkley kid seems like a once in a generation talent, when you have holes everywhere, you must pick the best player on the board in my opinion, and that’s him.

But why end up with an average to below quality QB when you have the choice in the guy you believe is your franchise QB for the future? I don’t agree in ignoring the value of a position. No matter how high you rate an RB, the position is simply not as valuable as getting the right QB.

The only way they justify not taking a QB is if they rank a number of the QBs at a similar level, which I would see as a failure in scouting or decision making. If they go with Barkley at 1, it will be the line they use if not that they always wanted the guy they ended up with at 4. That’ll be the story until one of the QBs taken before does better than their guy and the leaks will start that someone overruled someone else in the choice. We’ve seen it all before.

D9Male

Baker Mayfield will surely go in the top 7 picks.

I think anybody drafting a RB number 1, when they need a QB needs their head examined. If you look at the top 10 RB's in the league, here is where they were drafted:

Elliot high 1st in 2016
Bell lower 2nd in 2013
Johnson 3rd round in 2015
Gurley mid 1st in 2015
Hunt 3rd round in 2017
Gordon mid 1st in 2015
Freeman 4th round in 2014
Fournette high 1st in 2017
McCoy 2nd round in 2009
Kamara 2nd round in 2017

Also look at the average NFL tenure of this Top 10. 3.2 years.

Now look at the top 10 QB's in the league. Say Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, Big Ben, Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Wentz, Rivers. Only 2 drafted outside the first round. And they average 8 years or so as starters in the league.


I know that practically everyone would disagree with my Top 10, but the point stands. I don't care if SB is a once in a generational talent. I would only be drafting him if I didn't need a QB, if I had a good OL to get the good out of him and if I was picking outside the Top 10.

phatkev

D9Male wrote: »

Baker Mayfield will surely go in the top 7 picks.

I think anybody drafting a RB number 1, when they need a QB needs their head examined. If you look at the top 10 RB's in the league, here is where they were drafted:

Elliot high 1st in 2016
Bell lower 2nd in 2013
Johnson 3rd round in 2015
Gurley mid 1st in 2015
Hunt 3rd round in 2017
Gordon mid 1st in 2015
Freeman 4th round in 2014
Fournette high 1st in 2017
McCoy 2nd round in 2009
Kamara 2nd round in 2017

Also look at the average NFL tenure of this Top 10. 3.2 years.

.

I'm of the same opinion when it comes to drafting RBs, I think using a top 10 pick on one is just daft!The value is just not there. Lets not forget Trent Richardson was a generational talent, that was going to match Adrian Peterson for production!

Look at Adrian Peterson the greatest pure runner iv ever seen from day one in the league and he made the Playoffs once or twice

Saquan is a lot worse between the tackles but he's a far far be receiver this could make him amazing with the right coaches but if a team has the right coaches they wouldn't be picking high in the draft.

gstack166

Kace Icy Bug wrote: »

Look at Adrian Peterson the greatest pure runner iv ever seen from day one in the league and he made the Playoffs once or twice

Saquan is a lot worse between the tackles but he's a far far be receiver this could make him amazing with the right coaches but if a team has the right coaches they wouldn't be picking high in the draft.

Why is the general consensus then that he will not make it to #4. Either he goes Browns #1 Giants (who should be looking for a QB too seeing as they don’t expect to be high up in this position come draft time again) #2 or else someone else trades up with the Colts for him at #3. They can’t all be wrong about him is what I’m thinking.

Foxtrol

gstack166 wrote: »

Why is the general consensus then that he will not make it to #4. Either he goes Browns #1 Giants (who should be looking for a QB too seeing as they don’t expect to be high up in this position come draft time again) #2 or else someone else trades up with the Colts for him at #3. They can’t all be wrong about him is what I’m thinking.

Post combine the hype train is now in full overdrive. We’re one anonymous tweet away from the ‘general consensus’ being that multiple teams are willing to give up king’s ransoms to trade up for Barkley. Pre-combine it was regularly discussed that Barkley could fall to #4 or further in the draft. For those who have watched him in games (like you’d presume most teams have) his combine numbers weren’t surprising to suddenly cause this rush for him.

As has been said, this draft is extremely unpredictable but even so the Colts (presuming they’re telling the truth on Luck) and Giants are both in a much better suited than the Browns to take Barkley, even if I don’t think it would be the wisest of moves for either. They each have holes but at least have a number of pieces to build around, including a QB.

gstack166

Foxtrol wrote: »

Post combine the hype train is now in full overdrive. We’re one anonymous tweet away from the ‘general consensus’ being that multiple teams are willing to give up king’s ransoms to trade up for Barkley. Pre-combine it was regularly discussed that Barkley could fall to #4 or further in the draft. For those who have watched him in games (like you’d presume most teams have) his combine numbers weren’t surprising to suddenly cause this rush for him.

As has been said, this draft is extremely unpredictable but even so the Colts (presuming they’re telling the truth on Luck) and Giants are both in a much better suited than the Browns to take Barkley, even if I don’t think it would be the wisest of moves for either. They each have holes but at least have a number of pieces to build around, including a QB.

We’ll just have to wait & see. I think he goes #1 though for the reasons I’ve stated previous, that being the Giants take him. Barkleys mere presence & the threat of a power run game would reshape ways defenses approach the Giants and take huge pressure off a line that no matter what they do to it this year probably still won’t be good enough to block for Manning all game long.

Foxtrol

gstack166 wrote: »

We’ll just have to wait & see. I think he goes #1 though for the reasons I’ve stated previous, that being the Giants take him. Barkleys mere presence & the threat of a power run game would reshape ways defenses approach the Giants and take huge pressure off a line that no matter what they do to it this year probably still won’t be good enough to block for Manning all game long.

It is madness to skip on the QB you think will be your franchise because you fear that one of the next two teams might take an RB. Looks like neither of us are going to change our opinion but take a look at what teams Dorsey was involved with have done in the past, it might give us some idea of what the future holds:

https://twitter.com/NathanZegura/status/970725337519853569

gstack166

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is madness to skip on the QB you think will be your franchise because you fear that one of the next two teams might take an RB. Looks like neither of us are going to change our opinion but take a look at what teams Dorsey was involved with have done in the past, it might give us some idea of what the future holds:

https://twitter.com/NathanZegura/status/970725337519853569

Oh I agree with you on that but we are talking about the Browns here :P but at the same time, let’s just say for argument sake Barkley turns into this freak that some are suggesting & he has 7-8 years in the NFL with staggering numbers, doesn’t that immediately take huge relief off whatever QB they have there anyways, if he was the 1st or 4th choice QB on their list?

letowski

gstack166 wrote: »

Why is the general consensus then that he will not make it to #4. Either he goes Browns #1 Giants (who should be looking for a QB too seeing as they don’t expect to be high up in this position come draft time again) #2 or else someone else trades up with the Colts for him at #3. They can’t all be wrong about him is what I’m thinking.

As a Colts fan, the general consensus is that we (and I) would prefer Chubb over Barkley, that's on forums and social media. Chubb had a good combine, bar a pedestrian 3 cone drill (albeit important for a DE), he had an explosive 4.65 forty at 269lbs. He has alot of similar traits to Bosa with regards to elite hand play, power and run stop ability as well as the production to back it up.

They have remarkably similar college production:

Chubb -> 40 games, 54.5 TFL, 25 sacks
Bosa -> 38 games, 51 TFL, 26 sacks

I think say if Barkley is there at #3 and Dorsey offers Ballard the #4 and #33 or #35 to move up, the Colts will take the offer. At the end of the day, good running backs enter the FA every year, but good edge rushers in the FA are very rare, franchises just don't let them go unless for contracts like $15mil plus per year. It's a premium position for sure.

Jolly Red Giant

cosatron wrote: »

do you think Mayfield is top ten talent though, ive read that he could end up like russel Wilson or johnny manziel. His a bit undersized and has character issues. would you be happy if the bronco's took him?

I actually want Cousins - I don't like any of the QBs at the top of the draft. The one QB I find intriguing is Lamar Jackson (an awesome athlete but an erratic QB) - but I wouldn't touch him until the end of the 2nd at the earliest.

From a Broncos perspective - signing Cousins changes last season's team from 5-11 to 9-7 (or even 10-6). Getting an OT and OG with a mid-round RB in a deep RB class could shift that W-L to 12-4 or better in a weak AFC. While the cap situation would be tight - being able to trade down and get three or four starters where the team has big holes from a deep class at these positions - for me - is the best case scenario.

If the Broncos don't get Cousins then they are left with - drafting a QB with issues and possibly trading up from 1.5 to get your QB - losing draft picks, not being able to fill holes - and then risking the QB ending as a bust. It would set the Broncos back years. On top of that the Broncos defence would be another year older and more players would be hitting their sell-by-date. It is an absolute shame how Elway has wasted two years of that defence through his incompetence in drafting a QB.

Now - in terms of risk - getting Cousins is the best option - but Elway might have no choice but to roll the dice on one of the rookies.

Of the 4 QBs - and some of this has been outlined -
Darnold is a turnover machine - and that is something that is very hard to fix.
Rosen is the best pure passer - but is cumbersome in the pocket, has a history of injuries (and both his pocket presence and injury history could see him end up like Bradford) - and, apparently, he was not liked by his teammates.
Mayfield - is an arrogant sob - clearly has some issues - and could easily be a bust. Saying that - he can make throws and is more accurate than the others.
Allen - I don't get the hype - he has made strides but it is from a very low base. If he was that good I don't think he would have had to beg to get a college to take him on. He is the all-American hero, the little guy made good - with a big arm and accuracy and footwork issues. For me, he has bust written all over him.

The other thing is that I don't think any of these four are particularly smart (unlike Jackson who appears to be blowing the coaches away with his football IQ).

I would be worried if Elway was making a pick - he likes tall big arm QBs - like - Allen - and has already taken Osweiler and Lynch to fit the same build. He also likes a pure pocket passer - and Rosen fits that bill - but I would worry how long he would last as an NFL QB against the speed teams now have on defence.

The one thing that give me some hope is that I don't think the QB would be Elway's choice - I think Kubiak will be the main man in deciding who the pick was.

If I had to pick one of the four I would probably go for Mayfiled - purely because he is the most accurate and that is very important when it comes to being an NFL QB. I don't get the Manziel comparison - he is not that stupid - but I don't think he is Russell Wilson either. If the Broncos take him I would be very happy if he ended up as a top half QB who didn't turn the ball over too much.

Jolly Red Giant

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is madness to skip on the QB you think will be your franchise because you fear that one of the next two teams might take an RB.

That would be the case if it wasn't Barkley and there weren't four QBs at the top of the draft and you are picking again at 1.4

Assuming the Giants and Colts take a QB or trade down for someone who wants a QB - the Browns will still have two of the four available at 1.4 and could well have all four if the Broncos get Cousins.

phatkev

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The other thing is that I don't think any of these four are particularly smart (unlike Jackson who appears to be blowing the coaches away with his football IQ).

the reports I read from the combine suggested that gms/coaches/scouts were blown away by Mayfields football IQ

If I had to pick one of the four I would probably go for Mayfiled - purely because he is the most accurate and that is very important when it comes to being an NFL QB. I don't get the Manziel comparison - he is not that stupid - but I don't think he is Russell Wilson either. If the Broncos take him I would be very happy if he ended up as a top half QB who didn't turn the ball over too much.

It's lazy journalism, simply as that! the only things they have in common is that they're smaller white QBs

gstack166

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

That would be the case if it wasn't Barkley and there weren't four QBs at the top of the draft and you are picking again at 1.4

Assuming the Giants and Colts take a QB or trade down for someone who wants a QB - the Browns will still have two of the four available at 1.4 and could well have all four if the Broncos get Cousins.

Sports Illustrated are running Cousins to pick Jets story now.

mikemac2

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

The other thing is that I don't think any of these four are particularly smart (unlike Jackson who appears to be blowing the coaches away with his football IQ).

You should watch the NFL network clips where Steve Mariucci interviews them, draws up a play from his 49’ers day then interviews them again on something random to stress them and to see if they forget the play and then they have to draw it and explain it

It’s existed for years. Most QBs do well. I don’t remember any disastrous attempts over the years , not even Manziel

Mayfield nailed it exactly and impressed Mariucci

He comes across as very rehearsed and trained in his answers but sure they all do that, prepped by their agents for months

Foxtrol

Jolly Red Giant wrote: »

That would be the case if it wasn't Barkley and there weren't four QBs at the top of the draft and you are picking again at 1.4

Assuming the Giants and Colts take a QB or trade down for someone who wants a QB - the Browns will still have two of the four available at 1.4 and could well have all four if the Broncos get Cousins.

Getting a QB is very different than guaranteeing that you get the QB you think has the best chance to succeed in your team.

Paully D

Matt Miller has his 7 round mock out, based around Cousins signing with the Jets:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762798-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-7-round-predictions-post-combine

He has the Browns going Barkley at #1 and nabbing Darnold at #4.

Quenton Nelson going #2 to the Giants (:eek:), Allen to the Broncos at #5, Rosen to the Dolphins at #11 and Mayfield to the Cardinals at #15.

tripperman

Paully D wrote: »

Matt Miller has his 7 round mock out, based around Cousins signing with the Jets:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762798-2018-nfl-mock-draft-matt-millers-7-round-predictions-post-combine

He has the Browns going Barkley at #1 and nabbing Darnold at #4.

Quenton Nelson going #2 to the Giants (:eek:), Allen to the Broncos at #5, Rosen to the Dolphins at #11 and Mayfield to the Cardinals at #15.

Still in shock from reading it, he has my chargers taking Lamar Jackson in the second round and Tanner Lee in 5th or 6th round as well, I really doubt Jackson will fall that far, he will go in the first round

Gally79

tripperman wrote: »

Still in shock from reading it, he has my chargers taking Lamar Jackson in the second round and Tanner Lee in 5th or 6th round as well, I really doubt Jackson will fall that far, he will go in the first round

Browns need a QB more than anything else. Therefore I’m sure their 1st pick will be a QB