Liam Cosgrave RIP(Mod warning in op and #174)

Mirafiori

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Born 1920.

Elected to Dail 1943.

Retired 1977.

Died 2017.

What. A. Country.

He retired in 1981 at age 61.

Tigger

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

De Valera - term ended
Childers - died in office
O'Dalaigh - resigned
Hillery

What do I win?

Tigger wrote: »

dev childers hillary and i dont remember

thats the one

lukesmom

Uosdwis R. Dewoh wrote: »

Wouldn't have been a fan, but can't blame the country for him living to a very old age I suppose.

I took it that he meant What a c u next tuesday

branie2

He was born before the formation of the Free State

Outlaw Pete

Sorry to hear that. He was great as Davos Seaworth.

A grey, dull, listless period in Irish political history, sandwiched between figures like Lemass, Lynch, FitzGerald, Haughey, right up to Reynolds, who, like them or not, provoked far more debate. Suspect the reaction of many will be "he died? Didn't realise he was still around".

riffmongous

Deleted User wrote: »

A grey, dull, listless period in Irish political history, sandwiched between figures like Lemass, Lynch, FitzGerald, Haughey, right up to Reynolds, who, like them or not, provoked far more debate. Suspect the reaction of many will be "he died? Didn't realise he was still around".

Not totally, just reading now it seems he was the one who forced O'Dallaigh out of office, which was a memorable incident

mickdw

Delete post

Bishopsback

riffmongous wrote: »

Not totally, just reading now it seems he was the one who forced O'Dallaigh out of office, which was a memorable incident

Not sure of that now! But RIP Liam Cosgrave, an underated politician and a great intellect.

Roadtoad

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

De Valera - term ended
Childers - died in office
O'Dalaigh - resigned
Hillery

What do I win?

Back-stage pass to Halls Pictorial Weekly (VAT on children's shoes tonight)

philstar

FTA69 wrote: »

His government introduced censorship in Ireland, banning Republicans from the airways and denying a voice to elected representatives.

everything in context ....at a time when they were bombing the sh!t out of the north and bringing this island to the verge of civil war

touts

RIP. He seems to have been a fairly average leader by international standards but in comparison with the likes of Cowen, Bruton, Kenny, Haughey and Ahern he gets pushed into the list of top Taoiseach. When the best you can say is he was a good one because at least he turned up sober, didn't rip us off and was relatively competent at the job then that says more about us than him.

Badabing

Sean Lemass was our best ever Taoiseach.

touts

touts wrote: »

RIP. He seems to have been a fairly average leader by international standards but in comparison with the likes of Cowen, Bruton, Kenny, Haughey and Ahern he gets pushed into the list of top Taoiseach. When the best you can say is he was a good one because at least he turned up sober, didn't rip us off and was relatively competent at the job then that says more about us than him.

Conversely, compared to the likes of Lemass, Costello, Fitzgerald and Enda Kenny, he's distinctly average; probably ranking behind Jack Lynch and perhaps even Albert Reynolds.

In the end, it's only his non-corrupt status that saves his reputation.

philstar

Badabing wrote: »

Sean Lemass was our best ever Taoiseach.

no Albert Reynolds was

1. he alongside john major was the main architect of the peace process, which all of us should be eternally grateful

and 2. he wasn't in office long enough to make any major f&ck ups

davycc

Good riddance to the old religtard backward looking heavy gang cnut.

Shame he outlived most of his victims.
The original Tory boy covering up justice to the survivors of the biggest mass murder in the state history, Duplin and monaghan bombings.

feargale

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So now Enda is the oldest former Taoiseach at 66, a few months older than Bertie.

John Bruton born 18/5/1947

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Orlando Red Walnut wrote: »

True, he was modest and polite. He carried out major reforms family and labour law and significantly increased social welfare benefits. An honest politician.

Didn't he block contraception reforms for married couples...? Slightly before my time, to be fair.

veryangryman

Inherited the job from his Da...i hate when that crap happens in politics. Makes us look like a Monarchy. And yes i know he got elected, just the fact that he'd run annoys me.

diomed

Cosgrave was in power when there was a massive recession in the mid-1970s, and did ok.
Then we got shafted by a few chancers.
[Diomed's 20th Century History Of Ireland]

MadYaker

veryangryman wrote: »

Inherited the job from his Da...i hate when that crap happens in politics. Makes us look like a Monarchy. And yes i know he got elected, just the fact that he'd run annoys me.

Should he be barred from runnng because his father was Taoiseach? Nonsense.

baylah17

No time for the man
He despised civil liberties and human rights and set the heavy gang loose in the 70s
In my opinion he is undeserving of any state tribute.
He was a bully boy first last and always

veryangryman

MadYaker wrote: »

Should he be barred from runnng because his father was Taoiseach? Nonsense.

He gets on a platform because of it. Alot of people also voted for him no doubt because of his father's deeds rather than anything the jr guy does. Its an unfair advantage that prevents new people entering politics in my opinion.

tritium

philstar wrote: »

no Albert Reynolds was

1. he alongside john major was the main architect of the peace process, which all of us should be eternally grateful

and 2. he wasn't in office long enough to make any major f&ck ups

There are many ahead of Reynolds for that accolade. Id even put Bruton ahead of him somewhat controversially on the basis that he laid many foundations for what came after him in Irish life.

WHIP IT!

Juran wrote: »

He voted against contraception in Ireland in the late 70's / early 80's .... against his own party's majority mandate .... I'm no fan. My grandmother bore 15 kids as the state and church made sure she has no access to contraception ( to keep them poor ) ... and yet cosgrave had only 3 kids. It was well known that people with money were able to buy a 'pill' from their buddy the doctor to prevent pregnancy back then but poor country folk had to be kept down by the Catholic Church and Cosgrove fully supported them.

If only there was some other way that your Grandmother could have not had 15 kids... think, damnit, think....

Cork Boy 53

For me the Cosgrave government of 1973-1977 will always be associated with the Halls Pictorial Weekly sketches of that period. They were very close to the mark.

blanch152

davycc wrote: »

Good riddance to the old religtard backward looking heavy gang cnut.

Shame he outlived most of his victims.
The original Tory boy covering up justice to the survivors of the biggest mass murder in the state history, Duplin and monaghan bombings.

I think you need to take something for that hatred.

The man stood up to the IRA terrorists in the 1970s when they were a real threat to the State, well done I say and RIP.

_Kaiser_

Woodville56 wrote: »

How magnanimous of you - bet you feel better getting that rant of your chest - so how much have you done for your country that you feel competent to insult and demean one who is no longer able to defend himself and who has , by general consensus, been a decent and competent politician. I wouldn’t be a supporter of the Cosgrave era but don’t feel the need to disrespect the dead despite political different views. Fine to be critical of his politics but why the need for the personal insult ?

And yet shots at Haughey seem to be ok? By your logic surely those should be unacceptable too? (regardless of how deserved they may/may not be)

Personally though, I've never been one for "the slate is wiped clean when someone dies, RIP etc etc" ... whether someone deserves well-wishes and praise after death is subject to what they did in life IMO

I was only a kid in the Cosgrave era, but by all accounts he did a decent job for the most part given the times and circumstances of the country.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

WHIP IT! wrote: »

If only there was some other way that your Grandmother could have not had 15 kids... think, damnit, think....

... while actually exercising her right to have loving sexual intercourse with (presumebly) her husband? Yes, plelase - do go on.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

veryangryman wrote: »

He gets on a platform because of it. Alot of people also voted for him no doubt because of his father's deeds rather than anything the jr guy does. Its an unfair advantage that prevents new people entering politics in my opinion.

i think this tells you more about the electorate than it does about the system or the politician, and **** all has changed since.

veryangryman

veryangryman wrote: »

Inherited the job from his Da...i hate when that crap happens in politics. Makes us look like a Monarchy. And yes i know he got elected, just the fact that he'd run annoys me.

Does it annoy you that Garret FitzGerald ran for office, too? Winston Churchill? Tony Benn? Justin Trudeau? Benazir Bhutto?

And why not apply the same standard to siblings and spouses too? Robert F. Kennedy? Ted Kennedy? Hillary Clinton?

The fact is, that just like shopkeepers, drapers, doctors, and farmers, a lot of children growing up in political households want to follow in the footsteps of their parent's role. That is not confined to politics; it's a perfectly natural phenomenon.

touts

tritium wrote: »

Id even put Bruton ahead of him somewhat controversially on the basis that he laid many foundations for what came after him in Irish life.

The only foundation he laid was the future oligarch career of Redacted O'Redacted?

In contrast while Cosgrave was a conservative man of his time and we judge him harshly through modern eyes his government seems to have done what they thought was right for the country as a whole. We might disagree with them but I do think Cosgrave was doing what he thought was best for the nation. I don't think too many Taoiseach since then can honestly say that.

touts

touts wrote: »

The only foundation he laid was the future oligarch career of Redacted O'Redacted?

In contrast while Cosgrave was a conservative man of his time and we judge him harshly through modern eyes

Cosgrave was a very conservative man in his own time, let alone in ours.

He was one of the most pious members of the Oireachtas, let alone the Government.

davycc

blanch152 wrote: »

I think you need to take something for that hatred.

The man stood up to the IRA terrorists in the 1970s when they were a real threat to the State, well done I say and RIP.

I won't take lectures on a hypocrite like your fair self, don't want to have to put a hero like yourself back onto my ignore list.

Cosgrave would go up in my estimation If he had given justice to the Dublin and monaghan bombings survivors instead of sweeping the collusion under his big rug,

veryangryman

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Does it annoy you that Garret FitzGerald ran for office, too? Winston Churchill? Tony Benn? Justin Trudeau? Benazir Bhutto?

And why not apply the same standard to siblings and spouses too? Robert F. Kennedy? Ted Kennedy? Hillary Clinton?

The fact is, that just like shopkeepers, drapers, doctors, and farmers, a lot of children growing up in political households want to follow in the footsteps of their parent's role. That is not confined to politics; it's a perfectly natural phenomenon.

I didn't specifically criticise Liam. I said the system is whats wrong. Worldwide.

Other professions are not as responsible positions so no, they don't bother me. Politicians make huge decisions that affect us all. They should need to get off the ground on their own merits to relate to the man on the street IMO.

davycc

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

i think this tells you more about the electorate than it does about the system or the politician, and **** all has changed since.

Idiots votes count just as much sadly,
In my last constituency Helen mcentee got in on the sympathy and nepotism gig.

And in Kerry the Healy Rae dynasty is currently sucking up all the lucrative public purse contracts as a result of their own bit of nepotism and cronyism.

Fg and ff are two identical pigs getting the trough stuffed

WHIP IT!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

... while actually exercising her right to have loving sexual intercourse with (presumebly) her husband? Yes, plelase - do go on.

Both my Nans would have been older than the poster's Nan... they had 5 and 6 kids respectively... I guess they and their husbands were not quite so in love as the Granny who was forced to have 15 by the Taoiseach...

blanch152

davycc wrote: »

a hero like yourself

I'll take a compliment wherever I can get it, thank you.

fryup

davycc wrote: »

Cosgrave would go up in my estimation If he had given justice to the Dublin and monaghan bombings survivors instead of sweeping the collusion under his big rug,

well how do you think people in the north feel....bloody friday, kingsmill, enniskillen, teebane, darkley massacres all swept under the rug...with some of the perpetrators walking the streets some of them in public office (SF)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Both my Nans would have been older than the poster's Nan... they had 5 and 6 kids respectively... I guess they and their husbands were not quite so in love as the Granny who was forced to have 15 by the Taoiseach...

Sorry, you were supposed to be telling me how to legally make love without fear of concieving a child in a State where the recently deceased refuse to allow to you to use contraception because he proclaimed to be holier than thou....?

Honestly sounds like we'd have been better off without him.

WHIP IT!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Sorry, you were supposed to be telling me how to legally make love without fear of concieving a child in a State where the recently deceased refuse to allow to you to use contraception because he proclaimed to be holier than thou....?

Honestly sounds like we'd have been better off without him.

I'm "supposed" to be, am I?

Blaming someone else because all the kids you had put you in poverty is one of the most hilariously ludicrous things I've ever heard.

Seeing as we're "supposing", why didn't everyone have 15 kids??

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I'm "supposed" to be, am I?

Blaming someone else because all the kids you had put you in poverty is one of the most hilariously ludicrous things I've ever heard.

Seeing as we're "supposing", why didn't everyone have 15 kids??

Well, that was the question asked and you did respond to the question in fairness, but I'm guessing now that you either believe in the banning of contraception and are too embarrassed to say it or you don't believe in sexual intercourse for the purposes of love, so we'll leve this here, I suppose; and let the thread return to its topic of fawning over a dead socially-conservative politician.

Plenty more where he came from, no great loss.

WHIP IT!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Well, that was the question asked and you did respond to the question in fairness, but I'm guessing now that you either believe in the banning of contraception and are tw oscared to say it or you don't believe in sexual intercourses for the purposes of love, so we'll leve thsi here, I suppose; and let the thread return to its topic of fawning over a dead socially-conservative politician.

No great loss.

I've changed my mind - THAT'S the most hilariously ludicrous thing I've ever heard... would you listen to yourself

tomwaterford

fryup wrote: »

well how do you think people in the north feel....bloody friday, kingsmill, enniskillen, teebane, darkley massacres all swept under the rug...with some of the perpetrators walking the streets some of them in public office (SF)

Were these investigations closed down after a few weeks and all talk of findings silenced/covered up?

Do these incidents implicate a forgien government in largest act of Terrorism in the north??


If so they are comparable. ...if not it's messing

(RIP to this ould lad)

Annasopra

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Didn't he block contraception reforms for married couples...? Slightly before my time, to be fair.

No. He voted against his own governments bill on it.

philstar

tomwaterford wrote: »

Were these investigations closed down after a few weeks and all talk of findings silenced/covered up?

but there were never any investigations into those incidents.. thats the point

tomwaterford wrote: »

Do these incidents implicate a foreign government in largest act of Terrorism in the north??
If so they are comparable. ...if not it's messing

messing?? who do you think helped start up the provo's in the first place??...the irish government of 1970 thats who....not to mention a blind eye given to ira/inla training camps down south.....no one comes out of the troubles clean.

tomwaterford

philstar wrote: »

but there were never any investigations into those incidents.. thats the point

bloody friday, kingsmill, enniskillen, teebane, darkley massacres

Are you honestly telling me the ruc and special branch never investigated these??

philstar

i'm talking about serious investigations > tribunals, like you had for bloody sunday....there's never been anything like that for IRA atrocities..has there?

tomwaterford

philstar wrote: »

i'm talking about serious investigations > tribunals, like you had for bloody sunday....there's never been anything like that for IRA atrocities..has there?

Has anyone tried to whitewash/tarnish victims of ira attacks (like what happened bloody sunday)??


Has anyone suspected of coverup of collusion on ira attacks??


Has the taught occurred that these tribunals were only historically invistigsted because they weren't properly investigated at the time?

Unless you've no evidence to suggest otherwise,why would there be inquirys/tribunals?

Hotblack Desiato

WHIP IT! wrote: »

If only there was some other way that your Grandmother could have not had 15 kids... think, damnit, think....

That's a profoundly ignorant comment even for AH.

Marital rape was legal until 1990. Until 1988 a husband could even go to court to obtain an injunction to restore his conjugal rights. So his wife's choice was have sex or go to prison.