Dubai Questions

wandererz

I have been watching with interest the other recent thread on the Gulf states etc. and I have a few questions myself about living in Dubai itself.
In researching, it's amazing how often the response has been "it depends" even for basic stuff.

I have option of a package comprising:

• $154,000 basic
• $66,000 commission
• Total: $220,000

That would include housing allowance & car allowance included within that figure.

Ignoring the commission element for the moment, is the figure of $154,000 considered OK, Good, Excellent etc?

Taking into account annual apartment rental ($30K-40K) [AED110K- AED146K]
And other basic costs broken down as follows (monthly):

• Groceries:________$600 [AED 2,200]
• Utilities (DEWA):___$400 [AED 1,500]
• Internet:_________$100 [AED 400]
• Motor Insurance:___$50 [AED 200]
• Mobile Phone:_____ $50 [AED 200]
• Vehicle Registration:_$11 [AED 41]
• any other ??

= $1500-$2000 Monthly [AED 5,500 -7,400]
= $18K-$24K Annually [AED 66K-88,000]
Total (Rent & other Basics) annually up to $64K

Would i realistically be able to save about $90K per year?
Am I missing anything out?

Of course the commission element would be a welcome bonus on top of that. But it's not something I want to count on for the moment since it's a variable amount.

wuffly

Your figures look pretty well worked out. Definitely keep the commission out of your initial planning, whatever it is will probably take time to establlish.
You can definitely rent for cheaper but at that price you would be in the marina or downtown which are good bases to begin with.

To me i would say its a very good package.

Things to consider:
Will they give you an annual flight or is it part of your package?
Are your holidays work days or calendar days? this is a big difference from home and can really impact how much time off you get. (IE If i take a sun and thurs day off its 4 days of leave as opposed to home where its 2 days, this is as per labour law which is a low bar, not all companies do this. I've learned to work with the system but its an arse ache!)
Will they cover relocation and or provide your accommodation allowance in advance?
They have to provide medical insurance
Most places come unfurnished so you would need to kit the place out. Can be done relatively cheaply(ikea dubizzle etc).
Rent is paid in advance anything from quarterly to annually, initially 5% deposit and 5% agency fee. Its hard to find a place direct from the landlord to being with.
Are they providing you with a car? easy to pick up something cheap and cheerful to being with or rent renting a medium size car is about 1500aed a month
There are road tolls on SZR but not too expensive unless you are up and down a few times a day in which case you'd probably use a al khail a bit. Petrol is cheap but is an expense. I drive a small car from Jebel Ali to Biz Bay everyday monthly its about 400aed petrol and 100aed salik.
Socialising is expensive.
You could live very comfortably and save on this salary--- do they need a HSEQ Manager? lol!

wandererz

wuffly wrote: »

Your figures look pretty well worked out. Definitely keep the commission out of your initial planning, whatever it is will probably take time to establlish.
You can definitely rent for cheaper but at that price you would be in the marina or downtown which are good bases to begin with.

To me i would say its a very good package.

Things to consider:
Will they give you an annual flight or is it part of your package?
Are your holidays work days or calendar days? this is a big difference from home and can really impact how much time off you get. (IE If i take a sun and thurs day off its 4 days of leave as opposed to home where its 2 days, this is as per labour law which is a low bar, not all companies do this. I've learned to work with the system but its an arse ache!)
Will they cover relocation and or provide your accommodation allowance in advance?
They have to provide medical insurance
Most places come unfurnished so you would need to kit the place out. Can be done relatively cheaply(ikea dubizzle etc).
Rent is paid in advance anything from quarterly to annually, initially 5% deposit and 5% agency fee. Its hard to find a place direct from the landlord to being with.
Are they providing you with a car? easy to pick up something cheap and cheerful to being with or rent renting a medium size car is about 1500aed a month
There are road tolls on SZR but not too expensive unless you are up and down a few times a day in which case you'd probably use a al khail a bit. Petrol is cheap but is an expense. I drive a small car from Jebel Ali to Biz Bay everyday monthly its about 400aed petrol and 100aed salik.
Socialising is expensive.
You could live very comfortably and save on this salary--- do they need a HSEQ Manager? lol!

Thanks for taking the time to reply!
I have since found cheaper units in the Marina area today thanks to your advice! And it seems that some of them are even willing to do up to 12 cheques!!
May not be as fancy as some other places, but may be more workable in the short term.

Re: Annual Flight - Yes it is included.
Re: Holidays - They are work days. 30 days a year! 6 bloody weeks!!
Re: Relocation and or provide accommodation allowance in advance - I have enquired. Will need to see what they respond with.
Re: Medical insurance - Covered for me & immediate family.
Re: Unfurnished rentals - Crikey! i was surprised to find out that not even stoves/cookers are provided and that one has to get ones own. How crazy is that!
Re: car- Will have to rent. And perhaps look into a short-medium term lease (up to 6 months probably).

If i can get a place around Media City/Marina etc i could have a 1500mtr walk to the office without having to drive initially ... possibly.
For work flights etc. i could use taxi's in the short term to and from the airport (first month or two).
That is until i figure out what i need exactly.

Re: Socialising - hopefully i keep it to a minimum!

The above figures do seem great and should work out over time, but it's a bit daunting when you're broke, jobless, loaned-out & mortgaged to the max.
With that in mind, it's all the more daunting trying to figure out how to afford $30K-40K in rent in one go :eek:
I will defo have to rent a room somewhere for a month or three. :eek::eek:

I am extremely appreciative of your reply and for the advice you provided on the other thread as well. Between that and the above (along with some other websites) i've managed to get a better feel for things. Having moved countries previously, i know not to simply accept things at face value and hope for the best. There's always something that one never considered that hits you at full force and suddenly!
So in this case it's better to be a pedant IMO.
Hence the Excel spreadsheet needs to be created and analysed in minute detail

For others, a really good informational website that i found that answers so many basic and procedural questions has been: http://www.askexplorer.com/dubai/residents

@wuffly:
If & when i do get there, i owe you a good bit of socialising...on my account!

shinju

@wandererz
@wuffly

Thanks for all the info to you both. It certainly helps to have a discussion.
I agree that there is to much of the "it depends" stuff or how well one can negotiate.
Moving to a new country takes a lot of effort and commitment.
It may be easier if one is young and without commitments but more difficult the older one is.

My opinion is that we will look at the "God Willing" bit when we are there and a bit settled in but until then i think you are on the right track spelling things out.

It seems that everyone is afraid to say outright what they earn and spend etc. Hence it is a problem to gauge what is good or not.
For some people moving over may be a means to a defined end for a specific amount of time (e.g. A two year contact) and for others it may end up longer term e.g. 8 plus years. Eventually most people seem to return home or to another western country and one should plan for that eventuality. Hence I like your way of thinking and planning.

For example, there seems to be a big recruitment drive on at the moment for teachers and offering salaries around €43,000 from what i have seen.
But it all depends on under what conditions. For example, is accommodation included etc.
If not then one will probably have to share a flat with others and account for other expenses etc. Thus then reduces savings by half or more.

HonalD

shinju wrote: »

@wandererz
@wuffly

Thanks for all the info to you both. It certainly helps to have a discussion.
I agree that there is to much of the "it depends" stuff or how well one can negotiate.
Moving to a new country takes a lot of effort and commitment.
It may be easier if one is young and without commitments but more difficult the older one is.

My opinion is that we will look at the "God Willing" bit when we are there and a bit settled in but until then i think you are on the right track spelling things out.

It seems that everyone is afraid to say outright what they earn and spend etc. Hence it is a problem to gauge what is good or not.
For some people moving over may be a means to a defined end for a specific amount of time (e.g. A two year contact) and for others it may end up longer term e.g. 8 plus years. Eventually most people seem to return home or to another western country and one should plan for that eventuality. Hence I like your way of thinking and planning.

For example, there seems to be a big recruitment drive on at the moment for teachers and offering salaries around €43,000 from what i have seen.
But it all depends on under what conditions. For example, is accommodation included etc.
If not then one will probably have to share a flat with others and account for other expenses etc. Thus then reduces savings by half or more.

Have a look at: http://britishexpats.com/forum/middle-east-60/worth-guide-costs-vs-income-uae-qatar-762609/

It was a useful guide to me before i moved in September.

wandererz

HonalD wrote: »

Have a look at: http://britishexpats.com/forum/middle-east-60/worth-guide-costs-vs-income-uae-qatar-762609/

It was a useful guide to me before i moved in September.

Wow!
That is an extremely good spreadsheet and forum!
It must have been created by an excel grandmaster!

It certainly helps in setting expectations and showing how far off i was in terms of calculations.

Based on original figures above, even if we save half of what i originally projected then it would still be worth it. That is as compared to saving almost nothing in Dublin.

Thanks for the tip!

wuffly

Wow that is an impressive spreadsheet alright and very accurate for a single person. For a family the cost of maids has gone up, salary would 2.5k+ for live in 3.5k for live out. Also the visa fees are around 10k every 2yrs plus health insurance annually 700aed+

Re people not wanting to mention what they get paid... i think that's the same the world over.

Persoanaly after living here, i would think to live comfortably (not flash) and save a bit you would need to be on 20-25k aed per month

Teachers are generally on less than this, but get accommodation and lots of holidays. Teachers that have been here for longer get paid closed to 15-20k aed which is a good package.

One other thing i would suggest is get some sort of credit card with air miles either eithad or emirates, on a good salary the banks will wave some or all of the annual fee. I have the ADCB EITHAD one and its great for points we generally get a flight a year close to free and are silver which is handy for lounge access. We live at the AD end of Dubai so it works for us as the airport is only 10mins further than dxb (in the opposite direction)Its not something I would have thought of or cared about at home but it makes a big difference to getting home more or holidays. In recommending a credit card, i suggest doing all on your spending on it but paying off every cent every month. They literally throw credit at you and its a trap a lot of people get sucked into.

Re people moving home, the majority do but there is definitely a trend of people starting to stay longer term and buy property. You'll meet plenty of people that have been here 20+ & 10+ years with no intention of moving home. There are plenty of people who grew up here in the 80's & 90's and have had their own kids here. I work with 2 british guys that grew up in the ME have had their kids here and own property here and nothing at home. Its weird working with them some times as they are so British but have very ME ways of working/thinking about work...

judeboy101

Just don't trip and touch someone's hip.

stevestevenson

30 work days leave is excellent in my experience over here. Flights are a bonus, but it depends on the family situation. Not everyone wants to come home that often

wuffly

stevestevenson wrote: »

30 work days leave is excellent in my experience over here. Flights are a bonus, but it depends on the family situation. Not everyone wants to come home that often

If you don't want to come home you should be able to cash them in, i used to get a flight or 90% of the cost of a flight, now i just get a flat allowance. 
30 working days is amazing!

seachto7

I see some guy from the UK got done for touching another guys hip in a bar while trying to stop spilling a drink?

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/22/man-jailed-for-three-months-for-public-indecency-in-a-dubai-bar-7018475/

I am guessing the work perks are so good is because there's no other reason to move out there?

shinju

seachto7 wrote: »

I see some guy from the UK got done for touching another guys hip in a bar while trying to stop spilling a drink?

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/22/man-jailed-for-three-months-for-public-indecency-in-a-dubai-bar-7018475/

I am guessing the work perks are so good is because there's no other reason to move out there?

Work perks are good for a number of reasons.

85% of the population are foreigners.
Some incentivisation needs to be provided to get them to move over.
People coming over are on time limited (renewable) visas so there should be a reason for them to move over and work if they are only going to be there for a few years.

The government requires all employers to provide a return flight for their employees at the end of their contracts. This can be supplemented by the employer i.e. yearly etc.

There are also no pensions provided so salaries can be higher to compensate.
There are also no income taxes, so the government isn't taking 52% of one's salary, hence an opportunity to save.

It entirely depends on one's reason for moving over.
If sunshine, experience of different cultures is within your horizon then it's good.
There are thousands of people who have lived over there for years.

If drinking, pubbing etc is key, then places like London, Dublin, Australia etc may be more suitable.

With the middle east, it is worth knowing & understanding what one is getting into before making the decision. Follow the laws and live a clean life and there shouldn't be problems. It is strict when it comes to things like alcohol (for example foreign residents can drink or buy liquor but require a licence to do so).

This case isn't as straightforward as it seems. For example what was an Arab guy doing in a pub/bar that serves alcohol in the first place.

On the other hand I've never had to touch the hip or waist of anyone in a bar or nightclub in Ireland, UK or anywhere else. More likely than not I'm grabbing my pint glass with both hands to keep it from spilling over.

Worst case, i tap someone on the shoulder in a loud environment while i say 'excuse me' in order to pass by.

Don't go over thinking it's going to be like Spain, France, Ibiza etc.
It is a police state, albeit slightly relaxed.

If I could save €100K a year and have to sacrifice a few years of not going to the pub, I'd be over in a heartbeat.

As an example they are "stealing" a ton load of Irish trained teachers.
These folks have the chance of saving 30k-50k per year. Something that is impossible in Ireland,so they leave.
Not necessarily to return to Ireland, however :
A few years of that and they can return to Ireland to live the Irish dream of buying a house. Either by putting down an extremely decent mortgage or purchasing outright.

So, the Irish state pays for this free education of the populace and places like the UAE benefits subsequently.
Teachers, nurses, doctors, scientists... let's provide them with free no-holds-barred third level education and watch them flee to live their dreams and expand their horizons!


.... That's just a few other ways of looking at it as well.

Coming back to the quoted post... This is a guy who chose to go to Afghanistan to work ... AFGHANISTAN!!???
And the first thing he does on his way back is to stop in another Arab country and go drinking?

Perhaps ask what his work perks were in deciding to work in the most dangerous place on the planet?
He lost his job because of this. Perhaps one of his work perks was a paid trip and/or several or 30 days of holiday per year.

Compared to Afghanistan, I'd take 25-30 days of holiday & free flights home from Dubai anytime.

In Ireland, women get beaten up just walking down the street. People get robbed of their vehicles and other personal possessions on a daily basis. Last Christmas was particularly disappointing as i waited in anticipation for the annual "Seasonal" or "Christmas Murders" and they didn't happen for the first time in many years.

Ask a few questions on the Dubai Irish forum and you will see that this kind of thing does not happen. It's very/fairly safe. Apparently a great place to bring up a young family.

seachto7

I was probably a bit too harsh in my last post but on that, does anyone go to Dubai for the culture?
I would guess 99% go to save money and fair enough. I’ve thought about myself. Dublin is a slog for me. I’ve thought about looking at going there for a year or two, if I could get something there, but I wouldn’t be going for cultural reasons. That’s what Spain and Italy is for

A small bit of sensationalism in your last paragraph. You’ve painted it like women are getting beaten up regularly on the streets here which is news to me. Of course Dubai is safer. So is Saudi Arabia but I wouldn’t live in that kind of culture.

You are right too. More to the original link I posted.

HonalD

Just on that case that you linked to. The British Press has misled you in their coverage. The details that emerged from the trial are significantly different to the articles published in the UK.

wuffly

seachto7 wrote: »

I was probably a bit too harsh in my last post but on that, does anyone go to Dubai for the culture?
I would guess 99% go to save money and fair enough. I’ve thought about myself. Dublin is a slog for me. I’ve thought about looking at going there for a year or two, if I could get something there, but I wouldn’t be going for cultural reasons. That’s what Spain and Italy is for

It might be fair to say most people don't come here for the culture but there is plenty of culture and history here. There's plenty of people that don't got to spain for the culture.
There is a long history of trade and pearl diving before the discovery of oil.
Yes it would be a completely different place without the discovery of oil but Dubai has long since diversified.
From an arts perspective its going from strength to strength, there used to be a few small galleries in an industrial area and some incredibly posh and pretentious places in the DIFC. Now the industrial area is full of galleries with some amazing local and regional art. The art house cinema shows loads of great regional cinema a fraction of which might make it the IFI back home. The population is mostly foreigners so the art, the food and the cinema are very diverse. There is plenty of big shiny stuff too, which can also be pretty interesting.
Not to mention the Louvre is opening in Abu Dhabi in a few weeks time, the pre-shows have been amazing and varied the theme is bridging the gap between east and west. Like most places there is plenty of culture if you are interested enough to find it.

seachto7

Is it mostly foreigners creating all this culture for themselves? I know a few guys gigging out there, but it would seem they play all the time to other ex pats. Seem to be doing well either way.

HonalD

seachto7 wrote: »

Is it mostly foreigners creating all this culture for themselves? I know a few guys gigging out there, but it would seem they play all the time to other ex pats. Seem to be doing well either way.

Depends on how much effort you are prepared to put in. You can stick with the ex-pat crowd and speak English all the time, but you're going to miss out on the diversity of cultures here. I've spent time with people from India, Jordan, Iraq, Pakistan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Algeria, Egypt etc. and learning their customs is interesting. Some topics are best avoided but that's common sense.
Today is National Flag Day in UAE where the creation of the state is celebrated with the display of the National Flag in as many places as possible. It's not a public holiday - there is a separate National Day but if you're not prepared to learn and understand what the flag means after today, you can't really complain about a lack of culture.

wuffly

seachto7 wrote: »

Is it mostly foreigners creating all this culture for themselves? I know a few guys gigging out there, but it would seem they play all the time to other ex pats. Seem to be doing well either way.

The population is 80% foreign there's no way around that. So yep plenty of arts here cater to the majority of the population doesn't make it an less cultural. At the end of the day its a young country (46 this year). Museums and galleries across the globe are filled artifacts and art from other countries.
Personally I'll try foreign food, films and art. Music wise I probably wouldn't go to a gig unless I wanted to hear that band. If you know people gigging here, they will probably be playing at licenced venues(serving booze) so it will be mostly foreigners but not all westerners.
As HonalD said you can stick to an expat crowed much the same as you can do anywhere in the world.

Zascar

Just to jump on this thread, I'm currently considering moving to Dubai. I have family and several friends there and I have been going almost every year since 2006. The one thing I have found is that it has got extremely expensive in the last few years especially.

OP you're salary is clearly excellent - not sure how accurate your cost of living exampels are - probably a big on the low side but you'll definitely still safe a fortune.

I found this cost of living calculator but wondering how how accurate it is: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Dubai - it says Dubai is 15% lower than Dubai - I'm not sure I believe that. I've only started looking - rent is clearly more expensive - however obviously you are not getting taxed so it would end up probably being a smaller % of your earnings compared to Dublin. Things like eating out and drinking in nice bars is extortionately expensive. However I'm sure there are cheaper places I just have not been to any as when I'm on holiday I want to go somewhere nice.

From what I read online, you'd want to make AED25k per month to live well and save - which works out at €70k. Id hope to get more but I'm not sure how the salaries would compared exactly for the same job from Dublin to Dubai. Some say they need to be more due to the cost of living but other say not so much as they take the tax free into allowance. In reality I'd want to make sure that I can save approx €2k a month - so in 4-5 years you could have 100k. How realistic is this?

MatthewLane

wandererz wrote: »

I have been watching with interest the other recent thread on the Gulf states etc. and I have a few questions myself about living in Dubai itself. In researching, it's amazing how often the response has been "it depends" even for basic stuff.I have option of a package comprising:

• $154,000 basic
• $66,000 commission
• Total: $220,000

That would include housing allowance

wuffly

Zascar wrote: »

Just to jump on this thread, I'm currently considering moving to Dubai. I have family and several friends there and I have been going almost every year since 2006. The one thing I have found is that it has got extremely expensive in the last few years especially.

OP you're salary is clearly excellent - not sure how accurate your cost of living exampels are - probably a big on the low side but you'll definitely still safe a fortune.

I found this cost of living calculator but wondering how how accurate it is: https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Dubai - it says Dubai is 15% lower than Dubai - I'm not sure I believe that. I've only started looking - rent is clearly more expensive - however obviously you are not getting taxed so it would end up probably being a smaller % of your earnings compared to Dublin. Things like eating out and drinking in nice bars is extortionately expensive. However I'm sure there are cheaper places I just have not been to any as when I'm on holiday I want to go somewhere nice.

From what I read online, you'd want to make AED25k per month to live well and save - which works out at €70k. Id hope to get more but I'm not sure how the salaries would compared exactly for the same job from Dublin to Dubai. Some say they need to be more due to the cost of living but other say not so much as they take the tax free into allowance. In reality I'd want to make sure that I can save approx €2k a month - so in 4-5 years you could have 100k. How realistic is this?

Re the prices some look ok but mostly seem on the low side. the car and rent prices are way off (too low) as are the school nursery fees...... way more expensive than stated. Also 3 course meal in a mid range place would be more than 180... Also add 5% vat to everything now

I'd say to save that much and live comfortably you need a higher salary than 25k aed. Like anything it can be done, but if you are going to be here for a few years you want to have a bit of a life as well. Bars are (almost) all located in hotels so going out is always expensive, even in the cheap places. Eating out in non licensed(no booze) places is definitely cheaper. Lots of great places especially indian food.

HonalD

MatthewLane wrote: »

wandererz wrote: »

I have been watching with interest the other recent thread on the Gulf states etc. and I have a few questions myself about living in Dubai itself. In researching, it's amazing how often the response has been "it depends" even for basic stuff.I have option of a package comprising:

• $154,000 basic
• $66,000 commission
• Total: $220,000

That would include housing allowance

1.36 is the conversion rate. That gives you around 65k aed per month or so which is plenty to live on but it depends......on how many dependents do you have, do you want a nice car, do you socialize a lot.....

The biggest expenditure are rent and car. After that, expense is within your control.