Furnished / Unfurnished

myshirt

It is a landlords market. Unless something dramatic happens, it will remain a landlords market for a minimum of 5 years.

Irish people have always been heavily resistant to unfurnished properties, but is now the time to turn the rental market upside down and start locking in a trend of renting properties unfurnished?

1. Lowers your costs
1(a). Attracts tenants with resources, presumably more reliable/stable people
2. Tenants more likely to take better care of the place. The only motivation for minding your furniture at the moment is the deposit risk.
3. Tenants likely to stay longer. Who wants to be lugging furniture around?
4. Tenants more likely to stay as they have put their own stamp on the place
5. Tenants more likely to accept rent increases. Again, coupled with schools, jobs, transport, who wants the hassle of moving all that furniture?

Many other benefits also.

PhoenixParker

From observation a market is always 90%+ furnished or 90%+ unfurnished. I'm not aware of any markets that are more evenly balanced or have switched between the two.

Irish legislation heavily favours furnished letting and without a legislative change I don't see that changing.

_Dara_

I don't know about that. In the UK, outside of houseshares, I found that flats and houses were much more likely to be let unfurnished and without white goods. That's just my own experience of accommodation hunting over there, circa 2010. I looked into renting by myself but as a new graduate, I couldn't afford to buy furniture and kitchen appliances.

myshirt

myshirt wrote: »

It is a landlords market. Unless something dramatic happens, it will remain a landlords market for a minimum of 5 years.

Irish people have always been heavily resistant to unfurnished properties, but is now the time to turn the rental market upside down and start locking in a trend of renting properties unfurnished?

1. Lowers your costs
1(a). Attracts tenants with resources, presumably more reliable/stable people
2. Tenants more likely to take better care of the place. The only motivation for minding your furniture at the moment is the deposit risk.
3. Tenants likely to stay longer. Who wants to be lugging furniture around?
4. Tenants more likely to stay as they have put their own stamp on the place
5. Tenants more likely to accept rent increases. Again, coupled with schools, jobs, transport, who wants the hassle of moving all that furniture?

Many other benefits also.

With the difficulty in getting rid of tenants I'm not sure going down a road where they are even more invested in the property is a good road for a LL.

I think renting to people likely to want to move on within a short number of years is a safer bet of a LL (single people housesharing, young couples who will want to buy etc) as it gives them a much better chance of getting back control of their property without massive hassle.

Also while anecdotal evidence in this forum would suggest there is a small demand for unfurnished properties I think that in general this is a tiny percentage of renters. People don't want to spend money on furnature and appliances when they are renting, I wouldn't nor would the vast majority of people.

__..__

Law says you can't let unfurnished anyway.
But if was to ever let long term again I would like to do unfurnished.
Furniture is needed for short term letting though.

_Brian

I didn’t realise there was a law stating you can’t let a property unfurnished.

I’ve been doing so for almost ten years.

__..__

_Brian wrote: »

I didn’t realise there was a law stating you can’t let a property unfurnished.

I’ve been doing so for almost ten years.

Bad bad person. Wait til the rtb find out.

_Brian

_Brian wrote: »

I didn’t realise there was a law stating you can’t let a property unfurnished.

I’ve been doing so for almost ten years.

If by unfurnished you mean no couches, bed or a kitchen table then you are ok. If you mean no fridge, cooker, washing machine etc then you are not meeting the minimum standards set out by tenancy law.

crossmolinalad

I always looking for unfurnished but most of the houses I have rented were furnished and had a bedroom less to store all of the landlords "crapp"
Nine out of ten its cheap stuff we don't like color, model ect and with a risk to get any damage on the cheap furniture so a landlord find a reason to not paying back his/her deposit
Other thing we always looking for are houses who are not up to standard
They are cheap and always dogs allowed

_Brian

Kinslee Obedient Warhead wrote: »

If by unfurnished you mean no couches, bed or a kitchen table then you are ok. If you mean no fridge, cooker, washing machine etc then you are not meeting the minimum standards set out by tenancy law.

Ahhhh,
Yes the basic essentials are included.
Just no furniture at all.

And it’s RTB registered.

John_Rambo

I rented unfurnished. Robust, high end kitchen, stone floors downstairs, wood floors upstairs. Any carpets - natural wool.

Easier and less stuff to go wrong. You also get commitment, a natural duty of care and diligent security because it's their stuff. No need for inconvenient checks and unreasonable supervision that some landlords here have a lording relish for. All going well, you can hand it over to an agency.

Greaney

We let our old house unfurnished. My Husband rightly said, 'I ain't rentin' furniture to people'. Our tenants are careful and house proud. We may own the building, but it's their home.

A lot of renters are tired of deposits being kept on furniture that they say was either never in the house in the first place, or falling apart. Keep it simple.

pwurple

Unfurnished here too in mine, always have.

Older, more settled tenants.

Greaney

In fairness, since the boom, there's more second hand furniture shops, free furniture and God knows, everyone I know is trying to fob off their old stuff on their kids, family members and friends. Freecycle has loads, I get rid of stuff nearly every month! Donedeal and adverts.ie have free sections!!!!!!!!!

Furthermore, if these properties had been rented unfurnished, they might have been easier to live in...

http://www.dailyedge.ie/saddest-rental-properties-in-dublin-january-2018-3777643-Jan2018/

http://www.dailyedge.ie/saddest-rentals-dublin-3688343-Nov2017/

http://www.dailyedge.ie/renting-in-dublin-3-3478225-Jul2017/

Askthe EA

John_Rambo wrote: »

Any carpets - natural wool. .

Watch out for carpet moth (Seriously) especially if the property is surrounded by trees.

Moomintroll99

OMG as a foreign professional who relocated to Ireland 18 months ago, please, please, please consider unfurnished. I was shocked at the furnished rentals thing. We have rented in Scotland, London & Australia, and are landlords for our Aussie place, and never came across the thing of just not having unfurnished as an option.

I would have paid more for an unfurnished place not to have to live with those gross faux-leather couches with the outsides peeling off - yuck yuck yuck! And I would far rather buy my own mattresses for my kids to sleep on, and a big enough bed for my huge 6"4 husband to be comfy in. My first thought was: what pair of grownups in their 30s and 40s don't own their beds?

It just seems like a set up that was intended for students or very young people in their first rental has been extended to cover a far greater range of people and it isn't really suitable for many of us.

Depends where the property is, of course, but if it's anywhere within commute of a multinational employer you could probably find international relocations like us with our own stuff.

(And, er, no offence, but please don't worry about the whole 'the tenants might stay for ages' thing with foreign professionals. Trust me, if they are anything like us, they aren't looking to live in an Irish rental for the long term...)

grogi

Kinslee Obedient Warhead wrote: »

Also while anecdotal evidence in this forum would suggest there is a small demand for unfurnished properties I think that in general this is a tiny percentage of renters. People don't want to spend money on furnature and appliances when they are renting, I wouldn't nor would the vast majority of people.

From the perspective of a renter: I pay a rent to live in a place. It is my home (not only house). I do want to have stuff I like in my home, not some second hand rubbish the LL was able to source. In the end we asked the LL to remove all the furniture.

If the OP is interested in getting tenants that are long term, are invested and do care, it is a good move to offer unfurnished. They will make it their home.

Greaney

All true, indeed, there's so much being freecycled out there, is it really a cost anymore? Furthermore, all you need is your bed!! Minimalism isn't so bad. Most rentals are crammed with oversized second hand furniture. Actually, why is this a thing?? Most other countries don't 'rent furniture'!!!

grogi

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

(And, er, no offence, but please don't worry about the whole 'the tenants might stay for ages' thing with foreign professionals. Trust me, if they are anything like us, they aren't looking to live in an Irish rental for the long term...)

As a LL - wouldn't I like that?! Good tenant not going anywhere?

Moomintroll99

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moomintroll99 View Post
(And, er, no offence, but please don't worry about the whole 'the tenants might stay for ages' thing with foreign professionals. Trust me, if they are anything like us, they aren't looking to live in an Irish rental for the long term...)

As a LL - wouldn't I like that?! Good tenant not going anywhere?

I had thought the game was to have tenants who stayed a year or two to avoid triggering Part 4 rights, and to avoid long drawn out eviction processes which might see you stuck with non paying tenants for a year or more. But I've never been a landlord in Ireland, and don't intend to become one, so I could be wrong?

Claw Hammer

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

I had thought the game was to have tenants who stayed a year or two to avoid triggering Part 4 rights, and to avoid long drawn out eviction processes which might see you stuck with non paying tenants for a year or more. But I've never been a landlord in Ireland, and don't intend to become one, so I could be wrong?

Part 4 kicks in after 6 months. Turnover of tenants costs money. The property is vacant for refurbishment and preparation for a new tenant, advertising, viewing etc. A good stable tenant who stays a few years is much less hassle and usually almost as profitable.

Greaney

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

I had thought the game was to have tenants who stayed a year or two to avoid triggering Part 4 rights, and to avoid long drawn out eviction processes which might see you stuck with non paying tenants for a year or more. But I've never been a landlord in Ireland, and don't intend to become one, so I could be wrong?

It does seem to be the game of a lot of landlords. This is why the government are foolish to think that the Irish private rental sector is fit to house families, the elderly, the disabled, the unemployed etc. Rental property is a medium to long term investment.

I've been a long term tenant in the past, I'm a landlord now, and this is what I see. I hope I am the type of landlord I wanted when I was a tenant. 'Do unto others...'.

Fol20

I’m sure a lot of ll would love to do unfurnished with less hassle and calls for certain things breaking down. Plus the added incentive that rent might be cheaper since ll are not supplying the furniture. The kicker though is that it’s a money making business and if you go against the norm. Although some people here want unfurnished the vast majority are used to furnished and as a result of this, ll want to advertise to masses and not just a niche. You will have a longer void period while waiting for the odd few people looking for unfurnished so it’s not worth the potential risk involved

GGTrek

Greaney wrote: »

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

I had thought the game was to have tenants who stayed a year or two to avoid triggering Part 4 rights, and to avoid long drawn out eviction processes which might see you stuck with non paying tenants for a year or more. But I've never been a landlord in Ireland, and don't intend to become one, so I could be wrong?

It does seem to be the game of a lot of landlords.  This is why the government are foolish to think that the Irish private rental sector is fit to house families, the elderly, the disabled, the unemployed etc. Rental property is a medium to long term investment.  

I've been a long term tenant in the past, I'm a landlord now, and this is what I see.  I hope I am the type of landlord I wanted when I was a tenant.  'Do unto others...'.

There are no advantages at all in Ireland to have long term tenants: only disandvantages in my opinion. The law has to change: most continental european nations offer tax discounts based on how long the tenancy lasts, most continental nations do not force landlords to provide microwaves or other white appliances and various types of furnitures, most continental nations do not provide a law totally one sided for tenants like the RTA where landlord after 6 months is stuck with a 6 years fixed lease and tenant instead gets off scot-free with a a few weeks notice (!!!), most continental nations do not allow the fraud of assignment to anyone (literally can be done to a bum living on the street with no option to refuse based on unsuitability) so that the tenant can get out of a fixed term lease scot-free.
I shall stop here (the list is longer), because I am tired of reading bu...t in this forum written by people who have no experience of how it really is outside Ireland or what a fair rental law would look like, instead of an ideological BS law like the RTA. BTW I was born in and lived many years in continental Europe.
Even southern european countries have a rental law and fiscal treatment of rental income that is better than the Irish one (even though courts are as slow as the Irish ones:'().

grogi

Moomintroll99 wrote: »

I had thought the game was to have tenants who stayed a year or two to avoid triggering Part 4 rights /.../

You nicely summarised the core of Irish housing problems... It should be an agreement for service provision, with nobody trying to game anybody else.

But if it is a game, then there will be no winner in the long term.

grogi

GGTrek wrote: »

There are no advantages at all in Ireland to have long term tenants: only disandvantages in my opinion.

There is. Because for a tenant a good - dry, warm and well located - apartment/house is enough. They will not go to war to get a ****ty microwave oven for free from the landlord.

So if someone is into the bottom of the market - yes, there might be no advantage. But higher margin market doesn't care at all.

grogi

Funny this popped up again as I have a frined (not Irish but has been living here a while) moving to another country shortly and its driving him mad that everywhere is unfurnished. He just wants to find a place and move in without all the extra hassle and expense of buying furnature etc but its just not possible to find anywhere like this where he is going.

grogi wrote: »

From the perspective of a renter: I pay a rent to live in a place. It is my home (not only house). I do want to have stuff I like in my home, not some second hand rubbish the LL was able to source. In the end we asked the LL to remove all the furniture.

If the OP is interested in getting tenants that are long term, are invested and do care, it is a good move to offer unfurnished. They will make it their home.

The vast majority see renting as a temporary thing and I would have no problem betting a large sum of money that the vast majority of renters and future renters in Ireland would have no interest whatsoever in the hassle or expense of buying their own furnature and would be very much against any big move towards unfurnished rentals.

As for a rental being a home, I never felt that way about one it was simply a house I was temporarily living in.

Also if I were a LL the last thing I'd want is people really seeing a place as their home and wanting it long term, getting very tied to the area etc as you are likely stuck with them for a very long time and could have great difficulty getting rid of them if you want/need to. I'd much prefer to rent rooms seperately to young professionals who will wait a year or two max (some even less) and move on to be replaced by someone similar. Far less risky and more profitable way to operate and no messing with people asking for furntiure to be removed etc.

awec

Kinslee Obedient Warhead wrote: »

Funny this popped up again as I have a frined (not Irish but has been living here a while) moving to another country shortly and its driving him mad that everywhere is unfurnished. He just wants to find a place and move in without all the extra hassle and expense of buying furnature etc but its just not possible to find anywhere like this where he is going.



The vast majority see renting as a temporary thing and I would have no problem betting a large sum of money that the vast majority of renters and future renters in Ireland would have no interest whatsoever in the hassle or expense of buying their own furnature and would be very much against any big move towards unfurnished rentals.

As for a rental being a home, I never felt that way about one it was simply a house I was temporarily living in.

Also if I were a LL the last thing I'd want is people really seeing a place as their home and wanting it long term, getting very tied to the area etc as you are likely stuck with them for a very long time and could have great difficulty getting rid of them if you want/need to. I'd much prefer to rent rooms seperately to young professionals who will wait a year or two max (some even less) and move on to be replaced by someone similar. Far less risky and more profitable way to operate and no messing with people asking for furntiure to be removed etc.

Of course it's their home. What nonsense.

Tenants that treat housing like it's their home are undoubtedly the best tenants. They actually care about the place.

Greaney

Kinslee Obedient Warhead wrote: »

Funny this popped up again as I have a frined (not Irish but has been living here a while) moving to another country shortly and its driving him mad that everywhere is unfurnished. He just wants to find a place and move in without all the extra hassle and expense of buying furnature etc but its just not possible to find anywhere like this where he is going.



The vast majority see renting as a temporary thing and I would have no problem betting a large sum of money that the vast majority of renters and future renters in Ireland would have no interest whatsoever in the hassle or expense of buying their own furnature and would be very much against any big move towards unfurnished rentals.

As for a rental being a home, I never felt that way about one it was simply a house I was temporarily living in.

Also if I were a LL the last thing I'd want is people really seeing a place as their home and wanting it long term, getting very tied to the area etc as you are likely stuck with them for a very long time and could have great difficulty getting rid of them if you want/need to. I'd much prefer to rent rooms seperately to young professionals who will wait a year or two max (some even less) and move on to be replaced by someone similar. Far less risky and more profitable way to operate and no messing with people asking for furntiure to be removed etc.

Families are the lifeblood of any society and if we don't want them as tenants... This says it all really.

Lumen

Kinslee Obedient Warhead wrote: »

Also if I were a LL the last thing I'd want is people really seeing a place as their home and wanting it long term, getting very tied to the area etc as you are likely stuck with them for a very long time and could have great difficulty getting rid of them if you want/need to. I'd much prefer to rent rooms seperately to young professionals who will wait a year or two max (some even less) and move on to be replaced by someone similar.

I can't think of another business that actively wants customer churn. Almost all businesses recognise that customers cost money to acquire, and so hold on to them for as long as possible.

The only justification for this attitude is to circumvent rental caps.

karenalot

Fol20 wrote: »

You will have a longer void period while waiting for the odd few people looking for unfurnished so it’s not worth the potential risk involved

Depends on the demographic. The last couple of lettings I have done in Kildare/Dublin were unfurnished and to families. I wasnt sure what the reaction would be but I had people queuing up for them. Granted the market is such that people would probably sleep on the floor to secure somewhere.

In general though the feedback is always that they are delighted to finally see a blank canvas. Renters want to do all the “normal stuff” that home owners do, such as furniture shopping, owning a pet or being able to hang up a picture without having to go through what’s nearly the equivalent of planning permission.

I’m personally hoping the sooner the better we move towards the European models. Painted white walls, quality floors and white goods and the rest is left up to the tenants. They must return the property in the same condition it was received in. End of lease inspections and deposit returns would become a lot smoother and result in happier landlords and tenants.