Furnished / Unfurnished

unmade_man

Lumen wrote: »

I can't think of another business that actively wants customer churn. Almost all businesses recognise that customers cost money to acquire, and so hold on to them for as long as possible.

The only justification for this attitude is to circumvent rental caps.

the longer a tenant is in situ , the more entitled they often feel , a tenant in ireland need only decide they are going to be a pain and the landlord is at the mercy of their ill intentions for two years , there are no consequences whatsoever to going rogue as a tenant in ireland so landlords have to be a little paranoid about things , the system is simply that biased , its one of the reasons landlords charge so much rent , eventually most know they will encounter a delinquent tenant and face two entirely barren years

Ashbx

GGTrek wrote: »

There are no advantages at all in Ireland to have long term tenants: only disandvantages in my opinion. ).

Can I ask why you think its only disadvantages to have a long term tenant? I have been renting my house for the last 7 years. I have contacted my landlord once about a washing machine that had broken in year 3...and that's it.

I am just baffled why LLs think its better to have say 10 short term rentals (which include the costs of getting tenants in, getting house cleaned, repainted etc etc) rather than one long term.

It seems that most LLs look to who will pay the most money now rather than looking at who is actually going to be a good tenant or not.

pwurple

Don't start down the generalisations please. 

There are as many types of properties, and landlords as there are types of tenants. 

I'm a landlord that likes long term tenants.
I'm a landlord who rents unfurnished.
I'm a landlord who rents to families.
I'm a landlord who rents commercial units.

I don't cater to students, because it's not the type of property I have. Landlords who do have a lot of turnover, and that's their gig. It's not mine. 

Obviously, yes, we want to make money. I'm running this for income, to support my own family. I sell a product, I hope to get a return. I don't want to charge an unfair price. I want to cover my costs and make a reasonable income from it. Otherwise, why would I bother with all that time, effort and risk? It's my capital tied up in it.

Greaney

pwurple wrote: »

Don't start down the generalisations please. 

There are as many types of properties, and landlords as there are types of tenants. 

I'm a landlord that likes long term tenants.
I'm a landlord who rents unfurnished.
I'm a landlord who rents to families.
I'm a landlord who rents commercial units.

I don't cater to students, because it's not the type of property I have. Landlords who do have a lot of turnover, and that's their gig. It's not mine. 

Obviously, yes, we want to make money. I'm running this for income, to support my own family. I sell a product, I hope to get a return. I don't want to charge an unfair price. I want to cover my costs and make a reasonable income from it. Otherwise, why would I bother with all that time, effort and risk? It's my capital tied up in it.

True, it's just most properties (land lords) seem to like short leases to single people so it's good for landlords to say 'Renting to Families, long term, worked out for me'. Boards.ie offers a little more honesty, and a little less 'spin' than a radio interview with a rep from the IPOA (Irish Property Owners Assoc.). This also sheds light onto why I've concluded that the private rental sector will never replace the Local Authority for security of Tenure in Ireland (and I was a local Authority tenant for years). The Bias for short term leases for young mobile professionals is overwhelming.

pwurple

Greaney wrote: »

True, it's just most properties (land lords) seem to like short leases to single people so it's good for landlords to say 'Renting to Families, long term, worked out for me'. Boards.ie offers a little more honesty, and a little less 'spin' than a radio interview with a rep from the IPOA (Irish Property Owners Assoc.). This also sheds light onto why I've concluded that the private rental sector will never replace the Local Authority for security of Tenure in Ireland (and I was a local Authority tenant for years). The Bias for short term leases for young mobile professionals is overwhelming.

Sorry, I don’t follow where are you getting that conclusion from? A radio interview?

Have you any statistics or evidence to back up a bias, and for that matter, whether it is initiated by the tenant or the LL? It is almost impossible to evict someone in Ireland. At 6 months tenants acquire rights to remain in place. Of the 800,000 people in rental accommodation, are even half of them shuffling accomadation every 5 months? Let alone a massive majority... It just doesn’t ring true. the only time I see people moving often is if they are on short term contracts with work, or are students.

I wonder what age group you fall into, and who your own peers are? Of my childrens schoolfriends parents, the vast majority of them are renting, in the same house for over 5 years. Those are my peers, so my perspective may be different to yours.

Greaney

I'm middle aged. My 'peer group' who are currently struggling to find long term lets are...

1) between their late 20's to mid 70's
2) They are single parents, both mothers and fathers,
3) families,
4)Irish people, Travellers, non-nationals/new Irish
5) retired couples
6) Mature Students (with a pet cat)
7) Disabled
8) A good few single men and women over 40 yrs of age

(I'm thinking of real people in my life while making that list by the way, that are currently either in unsuitable accommodation, asked to leave their accommodation recently, or struggling to find somewhere and couch surfing).

The IPOA gave a slew of interviews a few months back on both Morning Ireland and Sean O' Rourke shows.

So from the following reports we can see that homelessness in children has skyrocketed
https://www.focusireland.ie/resource-hub/latest-figures-homelessness-ireland/
Easy read figures on housing are found here
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/
and here we can see how figures have changed so folk are renting more and later in 2016 than before
http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp1hii/cp1hii/

Indeed the CSO figures show how demographics have changed significantly in the last few years. And that's why I've been floored by how many people are being asked to leave their accommodation. Every few weeks it's someone new. I'm my circle of 'peers' if you will, I'm surprised at how difficult my older friends are finding it securing accommodation and how I've friends in their 70's, model tenants, being asked to move. Alas if I could house them all I would. They're great tenants and I'm sorry to see them have to move. It's disrupting their lives and families terribly and it's not good for our communities.

I think 5 years is still quiet a short tenure in a persons life, if they're never going to own a home. I'm surprised at folk complaining about tenants having 'rights'. Do people thing they shouldn't? Article 25 in the declaration of human rights covers this
http://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/

So since folk on this thread seem to think that 5-10 years is a long tenure, I've concluded that the private rental sector in Ireland is not fit to tackle the housing crisis when clearly many will need tenure for much longer.

Sorry if my answer's a bit long, I kinda felt the questioning of my peer group was a bit personal. It's tricky to judge tone online.

pwurple

Is the word peer offensive or something now? I have no idea what your perspective is, hence asking.

So, yes, it is radio interviews.

I mention 5 years, simply because that’s how long i live on this particular street, and the rest of the residents predate me. I made no comment whatsoever about that being long, or short. Just a simple statement of the minimum here, on my street. There are some over twenty years, two couples in their 70’s who are renting there all their lives. You have a three paragraph rant built on the number 5 and your list of assumptions... or should I say Bias.

I also did not complain about anyone having rights, not sure where you are pulling that from. I am heartily in favour of tenant rights. ( Excluding the right to starve their service provider’s children though, by halting rent but remaining in place... that one I certainly have a problem with, as most right-minded people do. )


I have no doubt it is exceptionally difficult to find any accommodation at the moment, given the massive shortage, approx 400000 units short at last count I believe.

And as for people being asked to leave their accommodation, no surprise whatsoever. It was one of several obvious expectations we had as soon as the Rent Pressure Zone faffery was implemented.

1) If the only available way to bring your rent back to market level after a freeze is to evict everyone and refurbish... what do the geniuses think will happen?

2) Black market ballooning. Tenants are crawling over eachother to get verylimited accommodation. 22 phone-calls and almost 100 emails in 1 hour of advertising anything decent at a reasonable price. Advertised rent is legally limited. Shortfall in what they are willing to pay vs what is legally allowed? Under the table.

3) reduction of supply and shutting down of units as landlord chuck their hat at the avalanche of red tape and law-enshrined inability to cover their costs.

Remind me how this is in any way related to unfurnished property topic?

GGTrek

Ashbx wrote: »

GGTrek wrote: »

There are no advantages at all in Ireland to have long term tenants: only disandvantages in my opinion. ).

Can I ask why you think its only disadvantages to have a long term tenant?  I have been renting my house for the last 7 years.  I have contacted my landlord once about a washing machine that had broken in year 3...and that's it.

I am just baffled why LLs think its better to have say 10 short term rentals (which include the costs of getting tenants in, getting house cleaned, repainted etc etc) rather than one long term.

It seems that most LLs look to who will pay the most money now rather than looking at who is actually going to be a good tenant or not.

Do suffer from selective memory like many Irish journalist do for ideological/political reasons?

Have you read my full initial post with all the reasoning or do you like to just perform selecting quoting as another poster in this thread?

Until the law is changed to
- balance landlords rights against delinquent tenants
- no breakage of fixed term tenancies by tenants allowed, tenants wants 6 years, he breaks lease he pays a big penalty like in other jurisdictions
- if tenant leaves breaking the lease landlord has to show effort to re-let, this is just good intentions leftist bu..t
- housing standard regulations 2009-2017 changed to allow for real unfurnished lettings
- change rental taxation to incentivize long term tenancies (I pay the same amount of tax if I rent for one month or for 6 years), there should be a scale that reduces the tax depending on length of tenancy like for example in Italy or Spain where they cap at 20-25% for long term contracts

Govvie also has to stop changing the law every single year to pander to communist NGOs ideological bu..it (hiding behing the homeless problem) and socialist medias and parties making it impossible to forecast what is going to happen (if I sign a tenancy agreement I want its clauses to stand for its full period). I repeat that there has not been a single year since 2009 without a change (big or small) in the regulations of tenancy/housing law! For the most part the regulations only worsened the rental supply by pandering to socialist ideology!

Untill all this has changed from a business point of view, it will be a big business disadvantage for a landlord to have long term tenants in Ireland. Ideological bias is useless against business issues, unless some of the posters want to migrate to a socialist paradise (but that never ends well).

Graham

Lumen wrote: »

I can't think of another business that actively wants customer churn. Almost all businesses recognise that customers cost money to acquire, and so hold on to them for as long as possible.

The only justification for this attitude is to circumvent rental caps.

I don't think many landlords do want regular turnover of tenants.

Contrary to what some posters would have you believe, most landlords just want a decent tenant and a secure regular return. Most landlords don't spend their evenings conniving ways around the RTA.

Greaney wrote: »

I'm middle aged. My 'peer group' who are currently struggling to find long term lets are...

suffering the effects of a constrained property supply.

Sorry Greaney, there is little in your post that isn't more likely an effect of limited supply rather than the short-term landlords bogeyman.

mrslancaster

GGTrek wrote: »

Govvie also has to stop changing the law every single year ....

I read on the RTB website about a max of one months deposit..is that a new regulation?

KellyXX

I went to view an apartment that a friend wanted to rent a couple of months ago.
The ad said it was unfurnished. When we arrived there was furniture there. The landlord said the furniture was going at the weekend and if she rented it it would be unfurnished by the time she moved in.
He said if she wanted she could buy the furniture off him but the rental was unfurnished and when she moved she had to take the furniture away with her and leave it unfurnished.

She rented the place in the end and bought the furniture off him for €400 cash which looked like a pretty good deal to me.

The only other stuff she had buy elsewhere was a mattress and a bedside lamp.
And now.she has that furniture to take with her if she ever moves to an unfurnished place again. Plus if she wants to change the furniture and dump stuff she can too.
I think it's the way to go.

Ashbx

GGTrek wrote: »

Do suffer from selective memory like many Irish journalist do for ideological/political reasons?

Have you read my full initial post with all the reasoning or do you like to just perform selecting quoting as another poster in this thread?

Until the law is changed to
- balance landlords rights against delinquent tenants
- no breakage of fixed term tenancies by tenants allowed, tenants wants 6 years, he breaks lease he pays a big penalty like in other jurisdictions
- if tenant leaves breaking the lease landlord has to show effort to re-let, this is just good intentions leftist bu..t
- housing standard regulations 2009-2017 changed to allow for real unfurnished lettings
- change rental taxation to incentivize long term tenancies (I pay the same amount of tax if I rent for one month or for 6 years), there should be a scale that reduces the tax depending on length of tenancy like for example in Italy or Spain where they cap at 20-25% for long term contracts

Govvie also has to stop changing the law every single year to pander to communist NGOs ideological bu..it (hiding behing the homeless problem) and socialist medias and parties making it impossible to forecast what is going to happen (if I sign a tenancy agreement I want its clauses to stand for its full period). I repeat that there has not been a single year since 2009 without a change (big or small) in the regulations of tenancy/housing law! For the most part the regulations only worsened the rental supply by pandering to socialist ideology!

Untill all this has changed from a business point of view, it will be a big business disadvantage for a landlord to have long term tenants in Ireland. Ideological bias is useless against business issues, unless some of the posters want to migrate to a socialist paradise (but that never ends well).

Wow...ok calm down. I was genuinely curious why you thought there were only disadvantages to having long term rentals. As I have never been a LL myself, I was just curious why this seems to be a popular opinion by LLs. I was trying to keep the thread short by not reposting your entire post and only quoted the line that I was questioning.

I am trying to learn and understand the thought process of LLs these days because as a tenant, we don't know where we stand a lot of the time. All this finger pointing from both sides is getting nowhere.

But I appreciate you finally answering my query. Im just going to leave it there so I don't de-rail the thread any further.

GGTrek

mrslancaster wrote: »

GGTrek wrote: »

Govvie also has to stop changing the law every single year ....

I read on the RTB website about a max of one months deposit..is that a new regulation?

They need a statutory change for that so I could not care less about what the RTB directors opinion is, but big changes are in the pipeline according to Dail debates. I do not have much time lately to prepare a proper post of what is in the oven for the rental market from the unstoppable Irish TDs great Dail debates. The only safe thing to assume is that it will be another big botch-up and there will be no resources and no planning to implement anything they want to do :D In addition it would be Out of Topic.

Greaney

pwurple wrote: »

Is the word peer offensive or something now? I have no idea what your perspective is, hence asking.

So, yes, it is radio interviews.

I mention 5 years, simply because that’s how long i live on this particular street, and the rest of the residents predate me. I made no comment whatsoever about that being long, or short. Just a simple statement of the minimum here, on my street. There are some over twenty years, two couples in their 70’s who are renting there all their lives. You have a three paragraph rant built on the number 5 and your list of assumptions... or should I say Bias.

I also did not complain about anyone having rights, not sure where you are pulling that from. I am heartily in favour of tenant rights. ( Excluding the right to starve their service provider’s children though, by halting rent but remaining in place... that one I certainly have a problem with, as most right-minded people do. )


I have no doubt it is exceptionally difficult to find any accommodation at the moment, given the massive shortage, approx 400000 units short at last count I believe.

And as for people being asked to leave their accommodation, no surprise whatsoever. It was one of several obvious expectations we had as soon as the Rent Pressure Zone faffery was implemented.

1) If the only available way to bring your rent back to market level after a freeze is to evict everyone and refurbish... what do the geniuses think will happen?

2) Black market ballooning. Tenants are crawling over eachother to get verylimited accommodation. 22 phone-calls and almost 100 emails in 1 hour of advertising anything decent at a reasonable price. Advertised rent is legally limited. Shortfall in what they are willing to pay vs what is legally allowed? Under the table.

3) reduction of supply and shutting down of units as landlord chuck their hat at the avalanche of red tape and law-enshrined inability to cover their costs.

Remind me how this is in any way related to unfurnished property topic?

Sure. My reply was not just to you asking about peers but to other points on the entire thread as well.

So re; tenants rights. It was mentioned a few times by other posters with regard to furnished v unfurnished, there seems to be an understanding by some posters that unfurnished flats, would encourage folk to stay longer in a property. Some of the previous posters concluded that it would make the tenant feel like it was their home, and this is undesirable for a land lord. That's how it relates to the thread furnished v unfurnished. I'm drawing from this that local authority housing seems to be the answer to our problem, in the long term.

pwurple

Greaney wrote: »

Sure. My reply was not just to you asking about peers but to other points on the entire thread as well.

So re; tenants rights. It was mentioned a few times by other posters with regard to furnished v unfurnished, there seems to be an understanding by some posters that unfurnished flats, would encourage folk to stay longer in a property. Some of the previous posters concluded that it would make the tenant feel like it was their home, and this is undesirable for a land lord. That's how it relates to the thread furnished v unfurnished.

I will have to introduce you to the multiquote.

Can you highlight those posts from landlords please that you were replying to?

The only ones I see assuming that, are from tenants.

Greaney

Here are a few from three different posters

GGTrek wrote: »

There are no advantages at all in Ireland to have long term tenants: only disandvantages in my opinion.

Untill all this has changed from a business point of view, it will be a big business disadvantage for a landlord to have long term tenants in Ireland.

the longer a tenant is in situ , the more entitled they often feel , a tenant in ireland need only decide they are going to be a pain and the landlord is at the mercy of their ill intentions for two years , there are no consequences whatsoever to going rogue as a tenant in ireland so landlords have to be a little paranoid about things , the system is simply that biased , its one of the reasons landlords charge so much rent , eventually most know they will encounter a delinquent tenant and face two entirely barren years

In fairness Hadlee Gigantic Laptop gave a hypothetical answer, but still...

Also if I were a LL the last thing I'd want is people really seeing a place as their home and wanting it long term, getting very tied to the area etc as you are likely stuck with them for a very long time and could have great difficulty getting rid of them if you want/need to. I'd much prefer to rent rooms seperately to young professionals who will wait a year or two max (some even less) and move on to be replaced by someone similar. Far less risky and more profitable way to operate and no messing with people asking for furntiure to be removed etc.