Parkrun v Runner's World

Djoucer

Seems Parkrun are up in arms over this article in Runner's World.

https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/events/inside-the-world-of-race-cheats

A journalist "cheats" in a Parkrun as part of an interesting piece of cheating in the sport.

Parkrun issues statement accusing RW of undermining Parkrun and dismissing the achievements of so many.

Lots of park runners now saying they'll boycott magazine.

Seems a bit OTT from Parkrun given RW praised them and didn't offer any criticism of them.

http://www.parkrun.com/news/2017/10/04/keep-spreading-the-message/

RayCun

I saw the reaction before the article and agree, it seems way over the top

Testosterscone

Ironic thing is that it's one of the better articles RW has written in a long time. It's definitely a topical point as more and more cases come to light (Mike Rossi, Mark Vaz, Kip Lipton, Rob Young and the current issues around the current Mimi Anderson run

With many of these runs being done to leverage coaching business and sponsorship I say it's a topic that needs to be highlighted

Captain Havoc

I think PSH completely missed the point. It wasn't any kind of an attack on parkrun. I think RW makes a valid point.

Chivito550

Anybody cheating to try nab a top 5 placing in a Parkrun really just needs to train harder I think!

Testosterscone

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anybody cheating to try nab a top 5 placing in a Parkrun really just needs to train harder I think!

Training harder not a popular choice for a large number of runners these days it's all about trying to be too clever and get away with bare minimum

(Applies to all facets of the sport not just park run in case people think I am having a pop)

eve

parkrun doesnt have the big things that would normally be used to prevent cheating or identify it afterwards (start/finish mat, timing chips, dedicated route with no access to non-runners, multiple on-course photographers, etc). As a result it relies on the honesty of everyone who runs through the finish chute to ensure that they did the full route. My usual parkrun is a two lap course and the Event Director one day had a guy storm up to him saying that he wasn't being allowed to get a finish token even though he had done the route. It turns out he thought it was just one lap but i cant fathom how he thought everyone else was so slow doing their 'one lap' or what he thought of the people running off to start their second lap instead of going through the finish chute after one lap.

The article was posted on RW today and I wonder if Paul Sinton-Hewitt got a copy of it beforehand. PSH has created a global event and he wants to stand by the integrity of parkrun. If he hadn't seen the article all he would know is that a Runner's World journalist purposely set out to cheat at parkrun. Therefore he probably felt that he needed to issue a statement first, to layout the goals of parkrun, the core principles and his feelings on it. He may not have had the specifics of the case or of what the article was about.

Having read the article myself the author doesn't sound too sorry for what he did. He said he felt 'grubby' but he still posted it on Twitter and Instagram which is just doubling down on his lie. His actions, if repeated across other Saturdays and other events, would cause anarchy. You can only judge people fairly if everyone has completed the same thing.

El Caballo

eve wrote: »

Having read the article myself the author doesn't sound too sorry for what he did. He said he felt 'grubby' but he still posted it on Twitter and Instagram which is just doubling down on his lie.

I think that was the idea, He didn't write the article as confession but planned to cheat to write the article as for your average cheater, the social media plaudits are probably the motivating factor, bragging rights.

Annie get your Run

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think PSH completely missed the point. It wasn't any kind of an attack on parkrun. I think RW makes a valid point.

I can see why though. I think the article is quite good really and the mention of parkrun is minor really (just happened to be a parkrun he was cheating at) but if you're Paul Sinton-Hewitt, and it's the week of the 13th birthday celebrations and you're putting out so much positive publicity, I can see why you'd be less than happy with RW. I don't blame him and you'd think really that RW would know better (they should have realised it might be seen as a slight even if it wasn't meant as one).

I'm more upset by all the capital P's in this thread so far - it's parkrun (small p all one word!) :pac:

Djoucer

Why would RW know better? Know better than what?

Parkrun are big enough not to throw the toys out of the pram whenever someone says something that could be considered not positive or a slight.

It's an article about cheating and the author writes about himself cheating.

Ridiculous to say he doubled down on his "lie." He's a journalist promoting his work. He even contacted Parkrun to get result annulled.

Keeks

parkrun is more than just running....it also needs volunteers to work.

Why would people volunteer, if people are going to cheat and if people don't volunteer then there is no parkrun.....

I don't think the PSH is gone OTT at all....

I think RW took the lazy way out here and picked on parkrun to highlight how easy it is to cheat, where as eve has pointed out there don't have the infrastructure (start/finish mat, timing chips, dedicated route with no access etc) to deter cheats......they should have picked a "proper" race (whatever that is) rather than a volunteer lead organisations fun run. Something which has prize money, but they didn't as they knew they would be scalped if caught, where as in a parkrun, people would probably tend to ignore a once off....

Its just lazy....

Djoucer

You would swear park run invented organised running. Every single running event needs volunteers.

And no-one would suggest that an article in which a runner explored the issue of cheating challenged the foundation and fabric of their community.

No one is suddenly going to cheat in a park run now that RW has written about it.

Annie get your Run

Djoucer wrote: »

Why would RW know better? Know better than what?

Parkrun are big enough not to throw the toys out of the pram whenever someone says something that could be considered not positive or a slight.

.

Keeks has said it very well below (in my opinion). I think while RW might not have meant any slight on parkrun, they should have chosen a race to use in their example. What they are writing about needs to be discussed yes, and the article itself (in my opinion) is quite good but they choose a free weekly event in their cheating example when they could have chosen any number of races.

Just as a matter of interest I wonder why they used parkrun. And for that matter why did the event they used need to be mentioned at all - it does't add to the point about cheating really?

Testosterscone

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest I wonder why they used parkrun. And for that matter why did the event they used need to be mentioned at all - it does't add to the point about cheating really?

Personally I think it does as it highlights the motivation of bragging rights in social media as opposed to other tangible targets like qualifying times or finishers medals.

Chivito550

Testosterscone wrote: »

Personally I think it does as it highlights the motivation of bragging rights in social media as opposed to other tangible targets like qualifying times or finishers medals.

+1. Some people are happy to show up week in and week out to claim a nice ego boost that comes with a soft win in 17 or 18 minutes, rather than taking on the best runners in more high profile events.

El Caballo

Chivito550 wrote: »

+1. Some people are happy to show up week in and week out to claim a nice ego boost that comes with a soft win in 17 or 18 minutes, rather than taking on the best runners in more high profile events.

I don't think that's what he was saying. Cheating vs an honest result are a completely different thing.

Sunny Dayz

I think it was a actually good article about cheating in races until it got to the bit about parkrun. It seemed the journalist was lazy and figured that parkrun was somewhere that would be easiest for him to show how simple it is to cheat in a race. Of course for the article he had to have an example of him successfully cheating or the article wouldn't be as good, would it? Why didn't he pick a local 5km or 10km chip timed race?


I don't think the article was trying to be malicious against parkun though, it think it just picked parkrun cos it's the easiest run to cheat in. I can understand PSH's reaction, parkrun is his baby and the article couldn't have come at a worst time when parkrun are celebrating 13 years.


I just hope the article doesn't spurn more people on to cheat at parkrun and behave in a flagrant manner to parkrun, it's volunteers and participants.

Candamir

So RW chose a non race to write an article illustrating the problem of race cheats?
It does seem a bit pointless not to mention lazy on the journal's part. Cheating at parkrun and bragging about your 'great time' would be akin to running half way around the Phoenix park and telling friends you'd run the whole way. What's the point. It's a bit/lot sad tbh. At least there might be a point to cheating in actual races where there's prizes/qualifying times etc to be gained. I don't blame PSH for being a bit peeved about it tbh.

Chivito550

El Caballo wrote: »

I don't think that's what he was saying. Cheating vs an honest result are a completely different thing.

If the motivation is bragging rights on social media then you will see things like cheating and people running for soft victories. They may be two different things, and not what he was referring to, but the motivation is the same.

Testosterscone

El Caballo wrote: »

I don't think that's what he was saying. Cheating vs an honest result are a completely different thing.

Yes sorry the point I was making was referring to people's motivation to cheat being at every level of the sport.

Keeks

Chivito550 wrote: »

+1. Some people are happy to show up week in and week out to claim a nice ego boost that comes with a soft win in 17 or 18 minutes, rather than taking on the best runners in more high profile events.

that's a different issue compared to cheating.....

Look what ever people think, where there is competition there will be cheats and that is just life. Cheaters rarely prospers and are usually found out in time....

And any organisation is going to feel aggrieved that they were picked on to highlight cheating, and using parkrun to highlight cheating, when the article talks about marathon, race across america, world records and ultra cheats doesn't make sense to me.....

Why use a local fun run to do this.....it just encourages people to do this for bragging rights. It also now makes people more skeptical of results.

Its lazy journalism

Last week, people would have given praise for what would have been perceived as a hard effort....possible a culmination of some weeks of hard work....this week they won't believe you....

If people want to brag about there PBs in a parkrun, let them. If they cheat to do it they will soon be ridiculed and found out.

but it is wrong, to have a article about cheating fame/bragging rights and then use a parkrun to highlight how easy it is to cheat....who really cares if you smash a parkrun

Keeks

Sorry...forgot to mention.....

The article is about cheating in amateur sports, so Is cheating in parkruns such a problem that it needs to be highlighted







* i have no idea why this topic has go under my skin, it has been yonks since i've done a parkrun

Sunny Dayz

Keeks wrote: »

Sorry...forgot to mention.....

The article is about cheating in amateur sports, so Is cheating in parkruns such a problem that it needs to be highlighted

Not that I've noticed at my local parkrun or any of the few that I've visited. Few people cutting corners but it's hard not to in fairness (my son calls it taking the racing line to use his motorsport analogy!). Have seen one or two teenagers cut the course short but that was out of laziness, not trying to get a pb or to beat someone though.

El Caballo

Keeks wrote: »

Sorry...forgot to mention.....

The article is about cheating in amateur sports, so Is cheating in parkruns such a problem that it needs to be highlighted

I don't think the author is trying to highlight cheating in park run, He's highlighting cheating in amateur running and probably choose park run because it encompasses a lot of what amateur running is No prizes or such but you against the clock so the fulfilment of running a good time is just yours. If you cheat in park run, you are just cheating yourself and no one else so he probably thought it was the best place to feel what it likes to cheat to get the experience of cheating for an ego boost alone. I don't see this as taking a shot in anyway against parkrun.

morceli

People already cheat at parkrun, many exampls and RD's removing people from, results having found them to be cheating.
Its a good article and funny when you compare the reaction Mark Daly got when taking EPO. In this case the author is highlighting cheating that takes place at all events from Marathon , to parkruns.. I think he followed a good process and contacted PR to let them know and correct the results a non issue really.

Chivito550

Sunny Dayz wrote: »

Not that I've noticed at my local parkrun or any of the few that I've visited. Few people cutting corners but it's hard not to in fairness (my son calls it taking the racing line to use his motorsport analogy!). Have seen one or two teenagers cut the course short but that was out of laziness, not trying to get a pb or to beat someone though.

I haven't run too many of them (9 I think in 3 years) but every time at Marlay I see runners beside me cutting corners on the turns. It does my head in.

diego_b

Even at a junior level at my local junior parkrun it’s proven a challenge to get the kids to stop jumping the start, to have enough Marshalls to stop short cuts been taken (skipping almost half of 1 of the / 2 laps) and corner cutting.
For the starts I’ve tried to tell the kids at my club that they really need to cut it out (the ones in question really don’t need the few seconds either) as in proper races they will be dq’ed.

Swashbuckler

Chivito550 wrote:

I haven't run too many of them (9 I think in 3 years) but every time at Marlay I see runners beside me cutting corners on the turns. It does my head in.

I just don't get it. Why the hell would you cheat at parkrun. For a pb which isn't genuine? Mental.

Murph_D

Why would you cheat in any race? I was enjoying the article about cheating, but the left turn into journo-cheating a la Mark Daly did not reveal any insights. I'm surprised he wasn't caught, to be honest - he'd never get away with that in St. Anne's. So he "proved" that cheating is easy, as if that was necessary. Of course it wasn't necessary. Anyone who runs races or parkruns knows there plenty of opportunities to cheat, if you're so inclined.

I'd much prefer if the 'journo' had interviewed some actual cheats to help us get inside their strange little minds.

Djoucer

You completely missed the point.

He wasn't proving how easy it is to cheat. He was writing of how he felt about cheating. He was, as you requested, attempting to het into the mind of cheaters.

Given how most of us won't ever xheat, it's an interesting insight given those who do cheat rarely fess up.

He's a journalist. This journal.ie ****e of putting inverted commas around "journo"

Djoucer

You completely missed the point.

He wasn't proving how easy it is to cheat. He was writing of how he felt about cheating. He was, as you requested, attempting to het into the mind of cheaters.

Given how most of us won't ever xheat, it's an interesting insight given those who do cheat rarely fess up.

He's a journalist. This journal.ie ****e of putting inverted commas around "journo"