Parkrun v Runner's World

HigginsJ

Murph_D wrote: »

Why would you cheat in any race?

I find it really hard to understand. 99% of us are so far removed from cheating being worth any benefit that it baffles me. Outside of those who run I doubt many people know/could care about the difference between a 21 or 23 minute 5k say.

Running is fairly straight forward, if you want to get better run more. I know of one person who put up a false time for a race they did, I never said anything or made reference of it to them but it bugged the **** out of me as I feel it lessened the value of my time :mad:

If someone wants to cheat, good luck to them, you'd hope they know it's meaningless.

ger664

parkrun is a timed run not a race so really who are you cheating only yourself.

snailsong

Imagine if I was writing an article about shoplifting. Would it be ok to steal something small from Tesco and bring it back a few days later and apologise? Just to see what it felt like to get into the mindset of a shoplifter.
What if I was afraid of the security in Tesco so I steal a bar of chocolate from the old lady in the corner shop. I'm bringing it back in a few days so that's ok, right?

snailsong

snailsong wrote: »

Imagine if I was writing an article about shoplifting. Would it be ok to steal something small from Tesco and bring it back a few days later and apologise? Just to see what it felt like to get into the mindset of a shoplifter.
What if I was afraid of the security in Tesco so I steal a bar of chocolate from the old lady in the corner shop. I'm bringing it back in a few days so that's ok, right?

Erm, both of those instances would be theft and, thus, crimes.

And so nothing like what the journalist in RW did.

It seems a bit thin skinned by parkrun. They weren't the target of the article.

Murph_D

Djoucer wrote: »

You completely missed the point.

I beg to differ.

What the RW writer did does not put you into the mindset of a cheat. It puts you into the mindset of a writer deliberately breaking rules in order to 'sex up' an article about cheating.

Not the same thing.

And Snailsong's corner shop / Tesco analogy is apt. It's much easier to take shortcuts or cheat at a small non-competitive event than a big event.

It's just lazy.

snailsong

Deleted User wrote: »

Erm, both of those instances would be theft and, thus, crimes.

And so nothing like what the journalist in RW did.

It seems a bit thin skinned by parkrun. They weren't the target of the article.

I'm talking about the moral aspect. I know it's not illegal to cheat at parkrun but they do have rules. When the journalist decided to ignore those rules he was disrespectful to parkrun, the other runners and the volunteers. 'Fessing up later doesn't make it ok.
As was said above, parkrun was a soft target and they've every right to be miffed. Accusing them of being 'thin skinned' adds insult to injury.

In fact, the writer seems to realise, retrospectively, that what he did was out of order. He couldn't look the other runners in the eye. Didn't stop him writing the article though.

IvoryTower

In my experience from cheating at monopoly every Christmas, you still think you're a winner, you'll brag about those pbs and love how impressed everyone was that you came 22nd or whatever.

Only difference is I tell them after to rub it in their face

snailsong

snailsong wrote: »

In fact, the writer seems to realise, retrospectively, that what he did was out of order. He couldn't look the other runners in the eye. Didn't stop him writing the article though.

Um.

I really don't think he couldn't look other runners in the eye because of the thought of what he did to the reputation of parkrun!

I think it was about cheats. You think it was about parkrun and they were a "soft target". As I said, I don't think parkrun was the target at all. We'll just have to agree to differ.

annapr

IvoryTower wrote: »

In my experience from cheating at monopoly every Christmas, you still think you're a winner, you'll brag about those pbs and love how impressed everyone was that you came 22nd or whatever.

Only difference is I tell them after to rub it in their face

Ah no, cheating at monopoly is a requirement, especially if you're the bank...

I read the article and PSH's response after reading all the comments here. The article was mildly interesting if a little short on facts... lots of conjecture and 'anecdotal' evidence that cheating is on the increase but no actual evidence and very little research... but then that's 'journalism' for you.

I thought PSH's response was measured enough, although he was clearly offended.

I know of several instances of 'cheating' from local parkruns, some more scurrilous than others. On one occasion, a faster runner asked to have his name deleted from results because he knew somebody ahead of him in the results didn't do the 3 laps. And he didn't want 5th place on his record, I suppose

On another occasion a woman sauntered in, first female... having done 2 of 3 laps... said yes she had done 5k... turned out she was a lawyer.... !

snailsong

Deleted User wrote: »

snailsong wrote: »

In fact, the writer seems to realise, retrospectively, that what he did was out of order. He couldn't look the other runners in the eye. Didn't stop him writing the article though.

Um.

I really don't think he couldn't look other runners in the eye because of the thought of what he did to the reputation of parkrun!

I think it was about cheats. You think it was about parkrun and they were a "soft target". As I said, I don't think parkrun was the target at all. We'll just have to agree to differ.

Eh,

Um,

That's not what I think at all.

annapr

annapr wrote: »

I know of several instances of 'cheating' from local parkruns...

More about parkruns and cheating, to add to the RW article! Careful now...:)

snailsong wrote: »

That's not what I think at all.

Where we differ is simply that you think parkrun was the target...

snailsong wrote: »

As was said above, parkrun was a soft target and they've every right to be miffed...

I don't think they were. I think it was merely a convenient setting for him to give his article a bit of a personal angle. To take your Tesco analogy, like someone going undercover in Tesco to investigate shoplifting by customers.

rooneyjm

snailsong wrote: »

Imagine if I was writing an article about shoplifting. Would it be ok to steal something small from Tesco and bring it back a few days later and apologise? Just to see what it felt like to get into the mindset of a shoplifter.
What if I was afraid of the security in Tesco so I steal a bar of chocolate from the old lady in the corner shop. I'm bringing it back in a few days so that's ok, right?

That's the problem, robbing from the old lady has little or no credibility when showing how it felt to be a shoplifter/ cheat, little risk, no consequences. Any muppet can rob from a corner shop, yet only the ones with a chemical imbalance do. Much like cheaters and especially at parkrun

robinph

For the shoplifting comparison, if he was writing an article about that there are plenty of people convicted of petty crime he could go and speak to to ask them about why they did what they did. None of those race cheats mentioned in the article are really inclined to speak to anyone about it, or just carry on with the lie.

People getting riled up about RW having done the article are just confirming that cheating is an issue that people care about, which was the point of the article. It wasn't out to get parkrun, it wasn't using parkrun because it was a soft target as it wasn't the target of the article at all. parkrun was just used as an example to show that even cheating in the most non-race type race was still bad and that the author couldn't see the point of doing so. Even his social media "boast" about the new PB was ignored and he couldn't take any pleasure from it, which was the point he was making.

There wasn't anything in the article attacking parkrun, or humiliating volunteers as parkrun HQ have been claiming. They did get accused of being a race, but that all depends on your definition of the term race, but I'm sure we've all had people think we run marathon races every weekend regardless of the distance, timing systems or numbers being worn.

They really shouldn't have been sending that email worldwide to their followers attacking RW UK for an article that barely mentions them in passing. parkrun entirely caused the issue and outrage on both sides, nobody knew about the article until the PSH email.

slingerz

As someone who is at the back of things in the parkrun each week i cant say i'd be overly miffed about a fella cheating. Realistically all i can ever hope for is a PB, which i am currently miles away from eclipising. maybe its the perrogrative of someone who is behind these people already but there have been instances where i'm seen similar backmarkers not reach the furthest out point in the course and finish before me. Ultimiately what difference does it make between 191st place and 217th!

robinph

I don't think I'd be overly bothered by someone cheating at parkrun finishing infront of me, obviously I'd be putting curses on them but other than that I've done my run and have my times that's all I'm bothered about. If it was someone I knew or from my club then I'd be having serious words with them about it, and we have had that happen at a parkrun previously where action was taken, but otherwise I'd just feel a bit sorry for them mostly... unless they claimed a course record in the process.

I was a bit peeved once where I finished second in an event, knew perfectly well I'd been beaten by the other guy as I'd had sight of him all the way round, but then when the results came out he was listed as an unknown which did annoy me. No problem with having been beaten, but he could have at least remembered his barcode. The results were then updated the following day so I guess there had been some other issue with the scanning and all was well with the world again.

average_runner

To be honest I don't care who finishes ahead of me, it's my time i care about.

Having said that, in Griffeen last weekend, I had a runner in front of me that would swerve to block me off on the path when we I tried to over take him about 4 times.
Eventually I had to go on the grass and went over on my ankle.

Worst of all, this wasn't for the lead in the race or anything, both of us were low 21 mins time :rolleyes:

robinph

^ That wouldn't be acceptable behaviour in a race, whether that is a parkrun or not.

Chivito550

average_runner wrote: »

To be honest I don't care who finishes ahead of me, it's my time i care about.

Having said that, in Griffeen last weekend, I had a runner in front of me that would swerve to block me off on the path when we I tried to over take him about 4 times.
Eventually I had to go on the grass and went over on my ankle.

Worst of all, this wasn't for the lead in the race or anything, both of us were low 21 mins time :rolleyes:

Sounds like you were racing Mr. Bean.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Sounds like you were racing Mr. Bean.

More like Father Jack!!!!!!!!!

partyguinness

Well if you are cheating on a Parkrun you are just a sad bastard and only fooling yourself. Quite frankly, you are a horrible shameless person with no soul. Ultimately it is pointless.

partyguinness

average_runner wrote: »

To be honest I don't care who finishes ahead of me, it's my time i care about.

Having said that, in Griffeen last weekend, I had a runner in front of me that would swerve to block me off on the path when we I tried to over take him about 4 times.
Eventually I had to go on the grass and went over on my ankle.

Worst of all, this wasn't for the lead in the race or anything, both of us were low 21 mins time :rolleyes:

What a wanker...I would just have bulldozed my way past and left a sharp elbow in the way. But then spent the rest of the race crapping it wondering if they would do the same....may well be the extra incentive to break my 20 min barrier...:D

But like you said- you are racing yourself and your own time. To hell with everyone else.

TBH- if I saw someone someone cheating I wouldnt be that bothered (I am nowhere near winning) but if I saw them after the race I would have no issue publicly naming and shaming to a steward.

average_runner

partyguinness wrote: »

Well if you are cheating on a Parkrun you are just a sad bastard and only fooling yourself. Quite frankly, you are a horrible shameless person with no soul. Ultimately it is pointless.

Why only parkrun, surely it should be every race:D

average_runner

partyguinness wrote: »

What a wanker...I would just have bulldozed my way past and left a sharp elbow in the way. But then spent the rest of the race crapping it wondering if they would do the same....may well be the extra incentive to break my 20 min barrier...:D

But like you said- you are racing yourself and your own time. To hell with everyone else.

TBH- if I saw someone someone cheating I wouldnt be that bothered (I am nowhere near winning) but if I saw them after the race I would have no issue publicly naming and shaming to a steward.

Jingle bells in december is the race to have a shot at your sub 20

partyguinness

average_runner wrote: »

Jingle bells in december is the race to have a shot at your sub 20

TBH I have only run 2 Parkruns this year so haven't focused on it and the last was in May. HM and full marathons is what I've been concentrating on. Wife works on Saturdays and I have the kids so it is very rare I can get out for a cheeky Parkrun...:(

average_runner

average_runner wrote: »

Having said that, in Griffeen last weekend, I had a runner in front of me that would swerve to block me off on the path when we I tried to over take him about 4 times.
Eventually I had to go on the grass and went over on my ankle.

Did you say anything from the polite "excuse me" to the rude "watch it, pxxxk" to the the passive aggressive "oh for FXXXS SAKE".

If still ignored, only 2 things for it, suck it up and go on the outside, channelling the hatred.

Or do a Zola Budd and end the outings for both of ye.

robinph

Deleted User wrote: »

Or do a Zola Budd and end the outings for both of ye.

What, collapse on the floor in a huff because the meanie teenager whose not wearing any shoes won't step out of your way when you stamp on her feet?