Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Vacating rented property query

Options
  • 05-10-2017 12:14pm
    #1
    montybeme
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭


    Lookong for advuce on a renting issue. Feel free to ignore/remove if inappropriate. ..

    So,my letting agent has decided to jack up my rent by more than 2/3rds and I am being forced to move elsewhere.
    This guy is notorious for being dodgy with giving back deposits. Ive lived in the place for over 3 years and during that time it has inherited some wear and tear as expected (paint coming off walls due to sloppy paintwork and dampness/some scrapes and scuffs on the walls,floors and furniture.

    Is there anything I can do to protect myself from him being contrary?

    A side question :
    Am I responsible for ensuring the property is immaculately clean before moving out or not?If so,to what standard ?

    Cheers in advance!


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,545 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    If you want the deposit back I would always give it back spotless and give him no excuses.


  • Options
    #3
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    The LL is responsible for the deposit not the agent, if he try's to keep it, insist on something in writing as to why it is been kept.

    He is only allowed to use it to make good any damage above normal wear and tear. He has to show receipts. Try to find a professional move out cleaning service and get a quote for having the place cleaned.

    If the deposit is 1000 and he can show vaid cost of 500, you should get 500 back... If he pulls a stroke report him to the RTB and open a case.

    Also before you move, did he serve valid notice, is the rent in line with others in the area and are you in a rent pressurised zone where the max is4% no 66%


  • Options
    #4
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    1. Make sure it is as clean as you can reasonably return it.
    2. Take photos of everything in case of dispute.
    3. Preferably have inspection with landlord or agent present so you can rectify anything raised.
    4. Any deduction from the deposit should be receipted to show actual costs. Deductions for normal wear and tear are not allowed.
    5. Raise a dispute with the RTB for any unfair deductions that the landlord won't budge on.


  • Options
    #5
    montybeme
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭montybeme


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    The LL is responsible for the deposit not the agent, if he try's to keep it, insist on something in writing as to why it is been kept.

    He is only allowed to use it to make good any damage above normal wear and tear. He has to show receipts. Try to find a professional move out cleaning service and get a quote for having the place cleaned.

    If the deposit is 1000 and he can show vaid cost of 500, you should get 500 back... If he pulls a stroke report him to the RTB and open a case.

    Also before you move, did he serve valid notice, is the rent in line with others in the area and are you in a rent pressurised zone where the max is4% no 66%

    Sadly I don't live in a "pressure zone" despite the current market rent being ridiculous across the board.

    The first notice he gave was in February. It was invalid. I made a dispute with rtb and he withdrew it. The new notice was 100 euro more. What is no 66%.???


  • Options
    #6
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    montybeme wrote: »
    Sadly I don't live in a "pressure zone" despite the current market rent being ridiculous across the board.

    The first notice he gave was in February. It was invalid. I made a dispute with rtb and he withdrew it. The new notice was 100 euro more. What is no 66%.???

    Invalid reviews count. 2 more years from Feb, if you haven't handed in your notice already.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,814 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    davindub wrote: »
    Invalid reviews count. 2 more years from Feb, if you haven't handed in your notice already.

    :confused:

    If the initial rent review was invalid then does the landlord have to wait 2 more years before a new rent review can be sent ?


  • Options
    #8
    andie115
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭andie115


    montybeme wrote:
    So,my letting agent has decided to jack up my rent by more than 2/3rds and I am being forced to move elsewhere. This guy is notorious for being dodgy with giving back deposits. Ive lived in the place for over 3 years and during that time it has inherited some wear and tear as expected (paint coming off walls due to sloppy paintwork and dampness/some scrapes and scuffs on the walls,floors and furniture.

    montybeme wrote:
    A side question : Am I responsible for ensuring the property is immaculately clean before moving out or not?If so,to what standard ?

    montybeme wrote:
    Is there anything I can do to protect myself from him being contrary?


    From my own experience I wouldn't rely on the rtb. We had the house we rented professionally cleaned when we were moving out and landlord still withheld 600 euro. We got the rtb involved and through mediation we were to get it back.. Landlord just ignored it and never repaid. Rtb will only take on a few cases so if you want to pursue u end up paying for solicitor etc and in a case I read recently another landlord ignored court ruling for 9 years so my advice is if u are genuinely leaving the place in good condition and don't trust landlord, take ur deposit from last months rent.


  • Options
    #9
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    davindub wrote: »
    Invalid reviews count. 2 more years from Feb, if you haven't handed in your notice already.

    :confused:

    If the initial rent review was invalid then does the landlord have to wait 2 more years before a new rent review can be sent ?

    Yes, afraik that is the last position on it.


  • Options
    #10
    montybeme
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭montybeme


    davindub wrote: »
    Yes, afraik that is the last position on it.

    I don't believe this is true in my case as it already went through the rtb. An agreement was made to withdraw the invalid review and be issued a new one.


  • Options
    #11
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    montybeme wrote: »
    I don't believe this is true in my case as it already went through the rtb. An agreement was made to withdraw the invalid review and be issued a new one.

    Sounds like mediation rather than adjudication.

    Mediation is different, it's an agreement, the mediator may inform the parties of the terms of the act, but it is focused on getting an agreement rather than rigid application of the act.

    You need to make your own case, but I have seen adjudication cases where it was upheld, i.e. the rent review was appealed and found to be invalid, an subsequent review was also appealed and found to be invalid on the basis it was only x months since the invalid review. But they will not rule in speculation of a further review at the first appeal.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    montybeme
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭montybeme


    davindub wrote: »
    Sounds like mediation rather than adjudication.

    Mediation is different, it's an agreement, the mediator may inform the parties of the terms of the act, but it is focused on getting an agreement rather than rigid application of the act.

    You need to make your own case, but I have seen adjudication cases where it was upheld, i.e. the rent review was appealed and found to be invalid, an subsequent review was also appealed and found to be invalid on the basis it was only x months since the invalid review. But they will not rule in speculation of a further review at the first appeal.

    Sorry, im a little confused.Let me explain a bit more in detail.

    It was telephone mediation and resulted in a determination order stating
    "The applicant tenant and the respondent landlord after that the notice of rent review is withdrawn."
    During the mediation the mediator informed me that a new notice would be issued. He never mentioned that the invalid notice meant the rent can't be raised anymore.

    My landord then issue me with a new one giving 90 days .

    As it stands today,I have already given my notice to vacate old place but it was over the phone and not in writing.
    I have found a nice new place and am meeting the l.lord in an hour to give my security deposit . This place is too good to let go.
    The new place is 525 per month. My current place was only 390 per month. If it can stay 390 for another two years it's obviously the most economic choice...but it's a messy situation . Today is Saturday and rtb and threshold call centres are closed!

    Now I'm in a crazy bind....

    HELP!

    Also, you stated "But they will not rule in speculation of a further review at the first appeal.".

    Can you elaborate?


  • Options
    #13
    montybeme
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭montybeme


    https://www.irishlandlord.com/tips-advice_item/rent-controls-rent-reviews/
    This states

    "Where a valid notice of a rent review has been served by the landlord then either party can submit a dispute to the RTB before the new rent is to have effect or before expiry of 28 days from the tenant receiving that notice, whichever is the later. There is no time limit where an invalid notice is served".


  • Options
    #14
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    montybeme wrote: »
    Sorry, im a little confused.Let me explain a bit more in detail.

    It was telephone mediation and resulted in a determination order stating
    "The applicant tenant and the respondent landlord after that the notice of rent review is withdrawn."
    During the mediation the mediator informed me that a new notice would be issued. He never mentioned that the invalid notice meant the rent can't be raised anymore.

    My landord then issue me with a new one giving 90 days .

    As it stands today,I have already given my notice to vacate old place but it was over the phone and not in writing.
    I have found a nice new place and am meeting the l.lord in an hour to give my security deposit . This place is too good to let go.
    The new place is 525 per month. My current place was only 390 per month. If it can stay 390 for another two years it's obviously the most economic choice...but it's a messy situation . Today is Saturday and rtb and threshold call centres are closed!

    Now I'm in a crazy bind....

    HELP!

    Also, you stated "But they will not rule in speculation of a further review at the first appeal.".

    Can you elaborate?

    Well you have given notice, so it's probably too late.....

    There are two processes when increasing the rent.

    1. Rent review -- process of determining market rent. Can only be conducted every 24 months.

    2. Subsequent notice -- arises off the rent review.

    The notice period is what was incorrect, this can be corrected, sorry I didn't realise you were talking about the notice only.


  • Options
    #15
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    montybeme wrote: »
    https://www.irishlandlord.com/tips-advice_item/rent-controls-rent-reviews/
    This states

    "Where a valid notice of a rent review has been served by the landlord then either party can submit a dispute to the RTB before the new rent is to have effect or before expiry of 28 days from the tenant receiving that notice, whichever is the later. There is no time limit where an invalid notice is served".

    But did you appeal the rent review or the notice?

    The grounds for invalid rent review would be on the basis that it was not conducted in the manner described in the act, so 3 comparable properties, market rent, period since last, etc.

    The notice is different, it has to be 90 days from the date of the review.


  • Options
    #16
    montybeme
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭montybeme


    davindub wrote: »
    But did you appeal the rent review or the notice?

    The grounds for invalid rent review would be on the basis that it was not conducted in the manner described in the act, so 3 comparable properties, market rent, period since last, etc.

    The notice is different, it has to be 90 days from the date of the review.
    My fault .I probably confused the two. I appealed the REVIEW as it was not conducted in the manner described in the act, so 3 comparable properties, market rent. The new REVIEW was then posted to me included all of these details as well as the 90 days notice.
    Does this change anything?
    I should also say that my official notice to vacate needs to be in writing so technically I haven't given notice.


  • Options
    #17
    montybeme
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭montybeme


    montybeme wrote: »
    My fault .I probably confused the two. I appealed the REVIEW as it was not conducted in the manner described in the act, so 3 comparable properties, market rent. The new REVIEW was then posted to me included all of these details as well as the 90 days notice.
    Does this change anything?
    I should also say that my official notice to vacate needs to be in writing so technically I haven't given notice.
    Are you 100% sure I have the right to another 24 months from February. I emailed threshold on the matter and they never mentioned this


  • Options
    #18
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    montybeme wrote: »
    My fault .I probably confused the two. I appealed the REVIEW as it was not conducted in the manner described in the act, so 3 comparable properties, market rent. The new REVIEW was then posted to me included all of these details as well as the 90 days notice.
    Does this change anything?
    I should also say that my official notice to vacate needs to be in writing so technically I haven't given notice.

    Yes that does count. But you are still describing the notice. If the notice is to be re-issued, it is to be based on the 1st rent review. Not a subsequent one. The 2nd review can be invalid, but the 1st review valid.....


    Unfortunately, your notice should be in writing, the landlord can insist it is given in writing, but the landlord can it accept it orally, it would still be binding if both parties intended the notice to be binding. I don't see a way around this now.


  • Options
    #19
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    montybeme wrote: »
    Are you 100% sure I have the right to another 24 months from February. I emailed threshold on the matter and they never mentioned this

    You cant be 100% sure with the RTB, but they do follow past decisions.

    You can look through cases yourself https://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/prtb-dispute-outcomes


  • Options
    #20
    montybeme
    Registered Users Posts: 28 ✭montybeme


    davindub wrote: »
    Yes that does count. But you are still describing the notice. If the notice is to be re-issued, it is to be based on the 1st rent review. Not a subsequent one. The 2nd review can be invalid, but the 1st review valid.....


    Unfortunately, your notice should be in writing, the landlord can insist it is given in writing, but the landlord can it accept it orally, it would still be binding if both parties intended the notice to be binding. I don't see a way around this now.


    Oh my God. .what a ****ing mess...No wonder people are getting screwed when beurocratic nonsense like this exists....I went to threshold ,Simon community,AND rtb with this information and neither of them told me this ...
    Thanks a million fro your help,but I really hope you are wrong.
    Do you work in the legal system?


  • Options
    #21
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    montybeme wrote: »
    Oh my God. .what a ****ing mess...No wonder people are getting screwed when beurocratic nonsense like this exists....I went to threshold ,Simon community,AND rtb with this information and neither of them told me this ...
    Thanks a million fro your help,but I really hope you are wrong.
    Do you work in the legal system?

    I used to, but this is not legal advice btw.

    Threshold, Simon community are charities, not solicitors, they help you as much as they can and off their own experiences. Another option is FLAC, but they have waiting lists for appointments.

    RTB just rule impartially, they won't help parties make their case.

    It might be something you learn for the future. But my understanding from what you have posted.
    -- the 2nd review would be invalid due to insufficient period expiring since the 1st in February.
    -- the 1st review may or may not be valid
    -- the notice given was incorrect
    -- the subsequent corrected notice should have been based on the 1st review. --- But you can't withdraw the notice on the basis you didn't put it in writing.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement