Male 2:08 800m runner handed 4 year doping ban

Chivito550

Incredible carry on.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1056185/low-level-british-runner-handed-four-year-ban-after-steroids-seized-by-border-control

walshb

I'd run that meself!

There was a verve song that would apply here

walshb

Reminds me of a link I saw about a 60 year old woman trying to break 3 hours for the marathon.

Kind of pis$es all over these people (many young, male and supposedly fit) jumping up and down because they finished in under 4 hrs...

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Reminds me of a link I saw about a 60 year old woman trying to break 3 hours for the marathon.

Kind of pis$es all over these people (many young, male and supposedly fit) jumping up and down because they finished in under 4 hrs...

I hope you are not equating 2:08 for 800m to sub 4 for the marathon.

walshb

Chivito550 wrote: »

I hope you are not equating 2:08 for 800m to sub 4 for the marathon.

I'm not. It just reminded me of that story I read...

Phonehead

walshb wrote: »

Reminds me of a link I saw about a 60 year old woman trying to break 3 hours for the marathon.

Kind of pis$es all over these people (many young, male and supposedly fit) jumping up and down because they finished in under 4 hrs...

I know eh!!!! I watched this documentary about a group of guys trying to break 2 hours for the marathon and gosh darn one of them was seconds away from doing it.

Kind of pis$es all over these people (many young, male and supposedly fit) jumping up and down because they finished in under 3:00hrs..

El Caballo

Phonehead wrote: »

I know eh!!!! I watched this documentary about a group of guys trying to break 2 hours for the marathon and gosh darn one of them was seconds away from doing it.

Kind of pis$es all over these people (many young, male and supposedly fit) jumping up and down because they finished in under 3:00hrs..

Don't mind Walshb. The closest he's came to a marathon is a fair city omnibus.;)

Murph_D

I'm not surprised by this at all. Why wouldn't some "low level athletes" take PEDs to win bragging rights at their clubs among their peer groups, whatever the level, if the PEDs are easily available. Probably happens in a lot of clubs.

Chivito550

Murph_D wrote: »

I'm not surprised by this at all. Why wouldn't some "low level athletes" take PEDs to win bragging rights at their clubs among their peer groups, whatever the level, if the PEDs are easily available. Probably happens in a lot of clubs.

Had a look at his power of 10 profile. Only one race in 2016, a strangely slow 2:20, after years of consistent results and regular racing. Perhaps an injury, drastic loss of form, and snapped in an attempt to get back to where he was?

Phonehead

Murph_D wrote: »

I'm not surprised by this at all. Why wouldn't some "low level athletes" take PEDs to win bragging rights at their clubs among their peer groups, whatever the level, if the PEDs are easily available. Probably happens in a lot of clubs.

To be honest it does kind of surprise me! so it's probably safe to assume that he's a 2:08 800m runner post PEDs. I read/heard somewhere that for elites PED's add 8% performance improvement, you'd assume because the main benefit of PED's is recovery and being able to train harder it's impact on amateur runners would be less than 8% as we don't train anywhere near as hard. (I could be entirely wrong on that assumption) I know 2:08 isn't a slouch pace... but I can't help but think why bother spend money a time researching when even in the local clubs around me that wouldn't break into the top 3 on a club track day.

*edit: just saw Chivito550 post above, injury recovery/frustration would probably help me understand his thought process better

Birdie Num Num

You only have to see how many Gym bunnies are doing similar and it's purely to look ripped. Has little to do with competition so I am sure there are modestly talented runners out there doing the same. Interestingly the emphasis is banned in 'All Sports' not just athletics.

average_runner

All i can say is what a waste of money.

walshb

Would any here try PEDs to see how much it helped them? Not in the cheating fashion, just in trying to improve their own personal performances...

If someone is really into something and trying to do it to the best of their ability then it wouldn't at all surprise me that they may consider anything that would see them possibly improve...

I would think the biggest concern would be is this safe, as opposed is this morally right.

I mean, if you are a"nobody" to begin with, why should it matter to anyone....?

Me personally: If I was a 3.30 marathon runner and into it I'd be trying anything to improve, and I wouldn't at all be shy in admitting it. They'd hardly withhold my medal for crossing the line 90 minutes or so after the winner?

Does this man deserved to be labelled "A British Runner," considering his time is a nothing really. The label implies quality. He is not.

Chivito550

Thinking more about this, he could have been buying it to sell on to others, or he could have been looking to get into the gym macho culture. Just one very slow (relative to his best) race in all of 2016 could signal he was done with athletics.

Idiot in any case.

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

Would any here try PEDs to see how much it helped them? Not in the cheating fashion, just in trying to improve their own personal performances...

If someone is really into something and trying to do it to the best of their ability then it wouldn't at all surprise me that they may consider anything that would see them possibly improve...

I would think the biggest concern would be is this safe, as opposed is this morally right.

I mean, if you are a"nobody" to begin with, why should it matter to anyone....?

Me personally: If I was a 3.30 marathon runner and into it I'd be trying anything to improve, and I wouldn't at all be shy in admitting it. They'd hardly withhold my medal for crossing the line 90 minutes or so after the winner?

Does this man deserved to be labelled "A British Runner," considering his time is a nothing really. The label implies quality. He is not.

Understand where you going with this. For me, no i wouldn't consider for two reasons:
1) The safe one and side effects on me and my family.
2) I run because I love it, its fun and sometimes a pain in the arse but mainly its fun.

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Would any here try PEDs to see how much it helped them? Not in the cheating fashion, just in trying to improve their own personal performances...

If someone is really into something and trying to do it to the best of their ability then it wouldn't at all surprise me that they may consider anything that would see them possibly improve...

I would think the biggest concern would be is this safe, as opposed is this morally right.

I mean, if you are a"nobody" to begin with, why should it matter to anyone....?

Me personally: If I was a 3.30 marathon runner and into it I'd be trying anything to improve, and I wouldn't at all be shy in admitting it. They'd hardly withhold my medal for crossing the line 90 minutes or so after the winner?

Does this man deserved to be labelled "A British Runner," considering his time is a nothing really. The label implies quality. He is not.

A 2:08 runner could score valuable points for his club in interclub track competition. He could play an important part of a XC team and help that team place well. He could deprive other clubs (and therefore other athletes) from winning a medal in such team based competitions.

Obviously wasting anti-doping funds to test somebody at club running level like this guy is pointless, but to think he wouldn't be cheating others is not true.

walshb

average_runner wrote: »

Understand where you going with this. For me, no i wouldn't consider for two reasons:
1) The safe one and side effects on me and my family.
2) I run because I love it, its fun and sometimes a pain in the arse but mainly its fun.

Good answers. The safety aspect of it I am sure may ward people off it.

RayCun

Cheating is cheating, whoever you are.

walshb

Does "cheating" yourself count?

If you are not directly racing someone or representing a club for places or money etc, who are you cheating, unless you feel yourself?

I'd be interested to hear some regular racers here. Not necessarily ones in direct competition vying for places or awards etc, more the runners/racers who enter events and races just to do so, to test themselves, look for a PB, or simply run...

I would be one example. Entered several events and races, but wasn't racing against any one person. More racing against the distance and clock...I have no doubt that if safe, I would be one who would try anything to see me perform better...

Chivitto, you would be a good example. Have you ever considered PEDs to improve your times, or are you more involved in actual competitions where places count and times count to more than just you, hence your moral positioning plays a big part?

Working class heroes

walshb wrote: »

Good answers. The safety aspect of it I am sure may ward people off it.

Be a lot safer if it was regulated, eh?

walshb

Working class heroes wrote: »

Be a lot safer if it was regulated, eh?

Maybe.

I am the sort who thinks hard before ingesting supplements or pills or vitamins....

Chivito550

walshb wrote: »

Does "cheating" yourself count?

If you are not directly racing someone or representing a club for places or money etc, who are you cheating, unless you feel yourself?

I'd be interested to hear some regular racers here. Not necessarily ones in direct competition vying for places or awards etc, more the runners/racers who enter events and races just to do so, to test themselves, look for a PB, or simply run...

I would be one example. Entered several events and races, but wasn't racing against any one person. More racing against the distance and clock...I have no doubt that if safe, I would be one who would try anything to see me perform better...

Chivitto, you would be a good example. Have you ever considered PEDs to improve your times, or are you more involved in actual competitions where places count and times count to more than just you, hence your moral positioning plays a big part?

Haha. Of course I have not considered PEDs. The very idea of somebody at club running level taking drugs is pathetic beyond belief.

I run for PBs first and foremost, but also try to beat whoever I can in any race I enter. All the races I run here, my times don't matter to anyone but me (due to a very poor interclub system, and I'm not fast enough to progress out of the heats at Nationals, or contend for medals at Leinsters), but when I lived in Australia, all my performances in the many interclub meets mattered for my club, and they scored points based on how I performed. I also almost made the 400m final at the Victorian Country Championships, missed out by 0.15 seconds. It's no great shakes in grand scheme of things, but competiveness exists at many different levels.

ultrapercy

Chivito550 wrote: »

Haha. Of course I have not considered PEDs. The very idea of somebody at club running level taking drugs is pathetic beyond belief.

I run for PBs first and foremost, but also try to beat whoever I can in any race I enter. All the races I run here, my times don't matter to anyone but me (due to a very poor interclub system, and I'm not fast enough to progress out of the heats at Nationals, or contend for medals at Leinsters), but when I lived in Australia, all my performances in the many interclub meets mattered for my club, and they scored points based on how I performed. I also almost made the 400m final at the Victorian Country Championships, missed out by 0.15 seconds. It's no great shakes in grand scheme of things, but competiveness exists at many different levels.

Why is cheating/doping more accepable to you from a better standard of athlete? Surely all doping is equally pathetic?
It reminds me of that Brendan Beehan story where he asks a woman if she would consider sleeping with him for 1 million pounds to which she replies "yes I would consider it". He then asks her if she would consider the same proposition for 1 pound to which she replies "what do you think I am?" Beehan retorts "we have already established what you are now we are negotiating the price"

Swashbuckler

ultrapercy wrote:

Why is cheating/doping more accepable to you from a better standard of athlete? Surely all doping is equally pathetic? It reminds me of that Brendan Beehan story where he asks a woman if she would consider sleeping with him for 1 million pounds to which she replies "yes I would consider it". He then asks her if she would consider the same proposition for 1 pound to which she replies "what do you think I am?" Beehan retorts "we have already established what you are now we are negotiating the price"

At least at a higher level there are financial gains to be made. A low level athlete cheating to win some local or regional race is beyond pathetic.

ultrapercy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

At least at a higher level there are financial gains to be made. A low level athlete cheating to win some local or regional race is beyond pathetic.

So its a scale, the greater the prize the less egregious the offence?

Chivito550

ultrapercy wrote: »

Why is cheating/doping more accepable to you from a better standard of athlete? Surely all doping is equally pathetic?
It reminds me of that Brendan Beehan story where he asks a woman if she would consider sleeping with him for 1 million pounds to which she replies "yes I would consider it". He then asks her if she would consider the same proposition for 1 pound to which she replies "what do you think I am?" Beehan retorts "we have already established what you are now we are negotiating the price"

I never said it was more acceptable.

But I can see why an athlete at the top would cheat. Financial incentives can be significant, whether that's prize money, appearance fees, or simply to keep your funding, or regain it after being cut. Athletes might also cheat for the glory and the public adulation that goes with that.

If I cheat, I might run a second faster over 200m. It won't make a ripple to onlookers, and nobody else will particularly care about my time, as I'll still be eliminated in the heats at Nationals. So I'd simply be cheating to run faster with the goal of pleasing myself, which wouldn't happen if I knew I cheated. So in that regard, to me it is absolutely pathetic.

walshb

When money and prestige and careers are at stake then cheating becomes a lot more tempting. Acceptabe? Maybe not, but tempting and explainable, yes.

The whore story....?

I'd fooking sleep with Brendan Behan for a million. A pound? I'd have to be pi%%ed

Working class heroes

walshb wrote: »

When money and prestige and careers are at stake then cheating becomes a lot more tempting. Acceptabe? Maybe not, but tempting and explainable, yes.

The whore story....?

I'd fooking sleep with Brendan Behan for a million. A pound? I'd have to be pi%%ed

So would he :P

Itziger

walshb wrote: »

Does "cheating" yourself count?

If you are not directly racing someone or representing a club for places or money etc, who are you cheating, unless you feel yourself?

I'd be interested to hear some regular racers here. Not necessarily ones in direct competition vying for places or awards etc, more the runners/racers who enter events and races just to do so, to test themselves, look for a PB, or simply run...

I would be one example. Entered several events and races, but wasn't racing against any one person. More racing against the distance and clock...I have no doubt that if safe, I would be one who would try anything to see me perform better...

Chivitto, you would be a good example. Have you ever considered PEDs to improve your times, or are you more involved in actual competitions where places count and times count to more than just you, hence your moral positioning plays a big part?

Does cheating yourself count? Of course it bloody counts. I want to know if I can do it. Me. During my last training block a friend who does some major Tri $hite told me about a new product that was on the market. It was legal as far as I know. I bought it and checked it out. It's a French thing, don't know if available in Ireland. Anyway it was one of those products promising a boost and what not. In the end I didn't take it. Still upstairs! I just wanted to see if training alone and what was between the ears on the day could get me the time I was chasing. Fortunately that was indeed enough. But to get back to your question, surely the hardest person to cheat is yourself. I'd be lying in bed of a night wondering if I'd have got my long sought target without the product. If I knew the stuff was illegal it would be worse. Maybe it depends on the individual.

Murph_D

walshb wrote: »

Would any here try PEDs to see how much it helped them? Not in the cheating fashion, just in trying to improve their own personal performances...

If someone is really into something and trying to do it to the best of their ability then it wouldn't at all surprise me that they may consider anything that would see them possibly improve.

Eh, no.

I am a 3:30 marathon runner. I want to improve, so I train harder, I try new things, I keep at it. It's a hobby.

A faster result based on PEDs isn't an improvement. I can't fathom how anyone would think it is.

:rolleyes: