What problem do schools have with boys' hair being too short?

political analyst

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-39301894

The Northern Ireland Children's Commissioner has said the policy of isolating school pupils is "wrong".
Koulla Yiasouma was commenting on the case of a schoolboy who was punished over a haircut his school said portrayed the wrong image.
Henry Miskimmin was removed from class for two days for getting what his mother called a "short-back-and-sides" haircut of which she approved.
Enniskillen Royal Grammar School said it was an internal school matter.

I could understand schools banning male pupils from having their hair too long, i.e. unkempt appearance on the part of men.

But why do some schools have a problem with boys' hair being too short?

political analyst

Boneybogman wrote: »

It's not the republic, so I don't give a ****.

But some schools in the Republic do have that rule.

Shpudnik

There's bald lads in my year. What do you suggest there?

Atoms for Peace

How the hell is that short? Any longer and he'd be a smelly long haired commie.

Teyla Emmagan

"Short back and sides" my arse.

Omackeral

If the student is a well behaved pupil with good attendance and a good attitude, it shouldn't matter if his hair is a buzz cut or if he has luxurious locks down past his shoulders.

political analyst

Shpudnik wrote: »

There's bald lads in my year. What do you suggest there?

I was implicitly referring to boys who have their hair cut too short. Seriously, can people not read between the lines?

political analyst

Omackeral wrote: »

If the student is a well behaved pupil with good attendance and a good attitude, it shouldn't matter if his hair is a buzz cut or if he has luxurious locks down past his shoulders.

You're missing the point - why do some schools against boys having their hair cut too short?

Here's a case that arose in the Republic.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/education/schoolboys-get-cut-from-exams-over-hair-5555.html

The J Stands for Jay

They don't allow it too long, they don't allow it too short. What do they want, some sort of Skrillex hairstyle?

Omackeral

This is the 'offending' haircut. That's neither too long or too short by any stretch of the imagination! It's just the haircut most young lads have nowadays.

I got suspended from secondary school in 2004 because my mother was shaving my head and accidently cut a big bald patch in my head so she had to even it out and I ended up bald. The brother who ran the school suspended me because of my short hair.......

Westernyelp

political analyst wrote:

I could understand schools banning male pupils from having their hair too long, i.e. unkempt appearance on the part of men.

What problem do you have with longer hair? Probably similar reasoning

Omackeral

political analyst wrote: »

You're missing the point - why do some schools against boys having their hair cut too short?

How am I missing the point? I think it's a stupid rule altogether. I don't agree with it at all. Plus this kid's hair isn't even short really!

Sleeper12

I remember when the Irish star newspaper started in the mid 80s they did a report on a boy in secondary school in Dublin. He got sent home because his hair was too long. Parents were told that he could come back till he had a haircut. He went to the barbers and got a one all over. A skinhead was the name used back in the day. He got suspended for 3 weeks till it grew back a little.

Hair length in boys school is a control thing.

political analyst

Omackeral wrote: »

How am I missing the point? I think it's a stupid rule altogether. I don't agree with it at all. Plus this kid's hair isn't even short really!

You're missing the point because you didn't answer the question that I asked.

political analyst

Westernyelp wrote: »

What problem do you have with longer hair? Probably similar reasoning

It's not a question of whether I have a problem with longer hair. I was simply understanding schools' ban on boys having long hair.

osarusan

The school will probably change their policy or make an exception now that they look silly in the media.

political analyst

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I remember when the Irish star newspaper started in the mid 80s they did a report on a boy in secondary school in Dublin. He got sent home because his hair was too long. Parents were told that he could come back till he had a haircut. He went to the barbers and got a one all over. A skinhead was the name used back in the day. He got suspended for 3 weeks till it grew back a little.

Hair length in boys school is a control thing.

So the reason for boys' schools insisting that pupils are not shaven-headed is that prosaic?

Reati

political analyst wrote: »

It's not a question of whether I have a problem with longer hair. I was simply understanding schools' ban on boys having long hair.

How can you understand stand a ban on long hair and not understand it on short hair and claim the question isn't related to your own bias.

I had long hair is school. No one cared as I was a good student. Lads had short and skint heads. No one cared as long as they were good students.

I only saw people have issues if they were bad students to be honest.

Burial.

Once summer I got blonde highlights in my hair...towards the end of summer holidays they were still noticeably there but natural hair colour was growing out again. First day back the principal gave me an ultimatum of shave the hair down to a 1 or get the hair coloured back to my natural colour. Cue me getting out the mother's L'Oreal because I was told "you're worth it" and I didn't want to look like a traveller. Of course the colouring came out sh*te and my mother had a canary but I learned to be self-sufficient I guess.

Omackeral

political analyst wrote: »

You're missing the point because you didn't answer the question that I asked.

The question is ''Why do they have a problem?'' My answer is I don't know. I think it's a stupid rule.

wally1990

Looks like nothing has changed from my school days where the schools gave out about stupid stuff like length of the hair or hair colour .

I mean give me a break.

They are there to provide education to kids , not to police their fashion and haircut trends

Yes a uniform is a requirement and must be worn but there is nothing wrong with this lads hair

Get back to important things like teaching and providing this lad with an education

*rolls eyes*

political analyst

Reati wrote: »

How can you understand stand a ban on long hair and not understand it on short hair and claim the question isn't related to your own bias.

I had long hair is school. No one cared as I was a good student. Lads had short and skint heads. No one cared as long as they were good students.

I only saw people have issues if they were bad students to be honest.

Because having long hair was historically regarded as not being manly.

Being shaven-headed is manly.

Atoms for Peace

Maybe the school is afraid of pro-French sympathies? :pac:

The name "Croppy" used in Ireland in the 1790s was a reference to the closely cropped hair associated with the anti-powdered wig (and therefore, anti-aristocrat) French revolutionaries of the period. Men with their hair cropped were automatically suspected of sympathies with the pro-French underground organisation the Society of United Irishmen, and were seized by the British administration and its allies for interrogation and often subjected to torture by flogging, picketing and half-hanging. The contemporary torture known as pitchcapping, or in Irish An Caip Bh was specifically invented to intimidate Croppies. United Irish activists retaliated by cropping the hair of loyalists to reduce the reliability of this method of identifying their sympathisers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croppy

Snotty

As said above, it's about control and power over the students, very little else, school staff have 100's of hormone fuelled kids and a way to a impose authority on them is to create rules on things that actually have no relevance at all. I'm not condeming this, I can only imange the nightmare of working in a school


Side story,
Back in the 80's a friend of mine shaved his head one weekend, which of course was not allowed. In school Monday morning and the head priest pulled him by the ear to the top of the class, "Whats the meaning of this haircut Mr Kelly",,,, "Father... I.... I... I got it shaved off for children in need, we raised 50 pounds". Priest got all confused and walked out.

Omackeral

political analyst wrote: »

Because having long hair was historically regarded as not being manly.

Being shaven-headed is manly.

Ever heard of vikings, barbarians, samurai, medieval warriors?

Mrs OBumble

Teens need to rebel. Schools give them poxy meaningless rules to rebel against, so they aren't forced into doing dangerous stuff because all the safe stuff is allowed. 'Twas ever thus.

Kid's hair will grow back. He will learn that you gotta follow the rules, or get them changed democratically. His education will not be unduly disrupted much on the scale of things. He will not become famous (and thus unemployable) in the community for all the wrong reasons - unless his parents make a balls of handling the situation.

riffmongous

There's this weird fetish for authority in the schools in Ireland, it seems without a strict dress code that society will collapse and we will have gangs of anarchic youths roaming the wastleland.. yet you go to a few european countries where they don't have single sex schools, uniforms, or even continuous 9-4 school periods and not only has society survived, but it seems the young people are much better adjusted and have much lower levels of anti-social behaviour

freshpopcorn

I never had an issue with any uniform policy at school. I didn't agree with them but I knew what I was allowed/wasn't allowed. In my experience it was only the trouble makers who broke the uniform policies.

Hotblack Desiato

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Teens need to rebel. Schools give them poxy meaningless rules to rebel against, so they aren't forced into doing dangerous stuff because all the safe stuff is allowed. 'Twas ever thus.

I suppose the kids in ET schools and other schools without these sort of stupid rules are all off taking drugs, or something? :rolleyes:

All 'poxy meaningless rules' do is diminish respect for authority.

Kid's hair will grow back. He will learn that you gotta follow the rules, or get them changed democratically.

Schools are not democracies - especially the ones where the ultimate authority is a bishop.

His education will not be unduly disrupted much on the scale of things.

You have to laugh at principals who are prepared to suspend pupils for ridiculous nonsense like this, yet lose their sh!t if parents want to go on holiday at a less extortionate cost and take their kid out of school for a few days. A few days off school is either not disruptive at all, or massively disruptive, depending on whether it was the principal's decision or not.

He will not become famous (and thus unemployable) in the community for all the wrong reasons - unless his parents make a balls of handling the situation.

Wow. I wouldn't want to visit that sort of 'community', much less live there. The valley of the squinting windows lives on, I suppose...

freshpopcorn

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Teens need to rebel. Schools give them poxy meaningless rules to rebel against, so they aren't forced into doing dangerous stuff because all the safe stuff is allowed. 'Twas ever thus.

They should rebel like most of us and go running in the wheat fields.

Reati

political analyst wrote: »

Because having long hair was historically regarded as not being manly.

Being shaven-headed is manly.

No, actually it wasn't and isn't.

suicide_circus

SusieBlue

Some schools just love having something to complain about. Make Up was banned in my school and was strictly enforced.
There was a girl in my year with severe, cystic acne. It looked so painful and we all felt really sorry for her. It was all over her face.
When it got really bad, she started wearing just foundation and powder to cover the worst of it. No mad lipstick or eyeshadows or anything like that, just a foundation that matched her skin tone that helped cover her insecurity.
As soon as the school realised, they sent a teacher to find her every day. The teacher would hand her a pack of baby wipes, make her remove the make up in front of everyone, and gave her a detention. This went on for weeks until they eventually suspended her.
If I remember correctly her parents were fuming, they tried to negotiate with the school with doctors letters, the school counsellor also got involved on her behalf but the school wouldn't budge. She ended up moving schools.

We were also based in a classroom that had a broken window for about 18 months, even in the dead of winter we weren't allowed to wear our coats in class. It was a very old building with no insulation and it was honestly freezing. We would be told to take off our coats by teachers standing there in jackets and scarves.

Stories like this annoy me, there's nothing at all wrong with his hair and it hardly impacts on his education.

Your Face

Whats wrong with that haircut?

OldGoat

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I suppose the kids in ET schools and other schools without these sort of stupid rules are all off taking drugs, or something? :rolleyes:

Educate Together and other non-uniform schools such as Mount Temple do use dress-code and appearance rules.

McTigs

OldGoat wrote: »

Educate Together and other non-uniform schools such as Mount Temple do use dress-code and appearance rules.

My kids are in Educate Together and there are no appearance rules that I am aware of..... plenty of boys going in the gate every morning with hair to shoulders and plenty with number 1s. Clothes could be anything.

It's quite refreshing actually

I also never had to endure any such nonsense as appearance rules in school, primary or secondary

bucketybuck

It might illustrate things to know what sort of school that kid is going to, without getting too political there are a lot of card carrying unionist whackjobs went through those doors. When you see the mentality the likes of the DUP have regarding certain social issues its no surprise to hear of warped ideas such as this at the school level.

It is strange though to see so many commenting on the haircut but nobody taken aback at the "isolation" punishment...

OldGoat

McTigs wrote: »

My kids are in Educate Together and there are no appearance rules that I am aware of..... plenty of boys going in the gate every morning with hair to shoulders and plenty with number 1s. Clothes could be anything.

It's quite refreshing actually

I also never had to endure any such nonsense as appearance rules in school, primary or secondary

The dress code for kids and staff exists. http://www.educatetogether.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/LETS-Ethos-Guide.pdf
It's liberal and seldom enforced but it does exist.

My kids went to ET too and my missus was on the management board for a number of years. I wish more schools were run on the same basis.

razorblunt

I never figured it out either, that and brown shoes not being allowed, I've heard folk mention its to "get them to conform or used to rules being placed or what not".
Personally, I never understood why "step" haircuts were banned, I had a short back and sides, blade 2 during the school year, blade 1 in the summer and it would be similar enough to the lad in the photo without the floppy fringe. That was allowed without issue. Seems to be a case of moving goalposts here.

Sebastian Dangerfield

Lads wearing earrings was the big fuss when I was in school. We'd put a piece of plaster over a stud so it wouldn't be seen from back the class. Most teachers didn't care, but every couple of months there would obviously be a reminder from above and they'd go around checking, before they forgot about it again a few days later.

Girls had a battle to wear trousers instead of skirts the first couple of years I was in secondary; the school eventually relented and let them in third year. Seems a bit mad now!

Billy86

OldGoat wrote: »

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I suppose the kids in ET schools and other schools without these sort of stupid rules are all off taking drugs, or something? :rolleyes:

Educate Together and other non-uniform schools such as Mount Temple do use dress-code and appearance rules.

They didn't when I went to them, or nothing too noticeable anyway. I had kids (boys) in my class with quite long hair while me and a few others were big into the "one of the sides, 3 on top" cut for our last 2-3 years. I remember a girl in 6th class when I was in about 4th getting her hair died in a tie die type of multicoloured setup and othong happened.

I mean sure if you came in covered in mud or with something like a swear word shaved in your head that may be different, but by and large they tended to let you look and dress how you wanted.

Suckit

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I remember when the Irish star newspaper started in the mid 80s they did a report on a boy in secondary school in Dublin. He got sent home because his hair was too long. Parents were told that he could come back till he had a haircut. He went to the barbers and got a one all over. A skinhead was the name used back in the day. He got suspended for 3 weeks till it grew back a little.

Hair length in boys school is a control thing.

I was sent home in the 90's twice by a principal with the largest comb-over to have ever existed.
I was threatened with expulsion and my hair was not even the longest in our year. Not by quite a long shot.
I went to the barber and got it cut, and was told that it was still not short enough on the fringe (when he pulled it down it went below my eyebrows), so he gave me a scissors and an ultimatum. Go into the toilets and cut it, or leave forever.
I wanted to leave forever, but knew how that would have played out at home, so into the toilets i went.
Came back, and was told that it was still too long, and to go back to the toilets again.

At that stage i did not care, and went back two more times altogether.
This was 100% a Principal with an agenda/grudge. I was in my leaving cert year and he was badgering me about that.
The same principal insisted everybody wore the exact same shade of colour jumper - if it started to fade, a new one was to be bought.
No suede shoes, no doc martins, no pointed or square toed. Everybody wore pretty much the same shoes, and socks had to be grey.

I met his daughter at a party a few years later and she told me that she is a teacher, and went in to some of her rules.
I can not remember them all now, but she had some horrific practices, especially if there was a pupil that she deemed 'unteachable' or a bad apple.

OldGoat

Billy86 wrote: »

They didn't when I went to them, or nothing too noticeable anyway. I had kids (boys) in my class with quite long hair while me and a few others were big into the "one of the sides, 3 on top" cut for our last 2-3 years. I remember a girl in 6th class when I was in about 4th getting her hair died in a tie die type of multicoloured setup and othong happened.

I mean sure if you came in covered in mud or with something like a swear word shaved in your head that may be different, but by and large they tended to let you look and dress how you wanted.

Just because you never ran afoul of the rules doesn't mean they don't exist.
http://www.mounttemple.ie/policies/dress-code/

Sorry, I know you meant ET but I did post a link to their codes earlier.
The code is there as a tool to be used by teachers when necessary. It's the equivalent of the "Don't be a dick" rule used here on Boards. When all else fails then that rule can be invoked and brought to bear.

Hotblack Desiato

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Lads wearing earrings was the big fuss when I was in school. We'd put a piece of plaster over a stud so it wouldn't be seen from back the class.

When I was in school we were told that if the teacher saw a stud he'd rip it out sideways. This never happened, but I can't figure out what part of catholic morals (:rolleyes:) this was supposedly violating.

Tigger

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I remember when the Irish star newspaper started in the mid 80s they did a report on a boy in secondary school in Dublin. He got sent home because his hair was too long. Parents were told that he could come back till he had a haircut. He went to the barbers and got a one all over. A skinhead was the name used back in the day. He got suspended for 3 weeks till it grew back a little.

Hair length in boys school is a control thing.

that was our school

hes now a banker i just looked him upnon linked in
doing dood it seems