MATCH THREAD: Leinster vs Munster, Aviva Sat 07th 14:00, SS Main & Arena

Deusexmachina

Erik Shin wrote: »

No, Reggie was being unprofessional, he'll probably get a bit of a going over for this, and rightly so

I didn’t see live it to be fair. You might be right. Just seems churlish and immature to me. Reggie is a decent bloke and a fellow professional. No need to get all piqued by a fairly innocuous question.

Deusexmachina

Buer wrote: »

It was a stupid question. It didn't need to be asked. POM was right to take offence.

The truth is, neither side gave it 100%. A blind man could see that. But you don't insult the captain of the losing side by asking that just after the game.

Corrigan was a spiky enough Leinster captain himself a decade ago. He should have more cop on.

Why can’t you ask it if ‘a blind man could see it’?

Weepsie

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I didn’t see live it to be fair. You might be right. Just seems churlish and immature to me. Reggie is a decent bloke and a fellow professional. No need to get all piqued by a fairly innocuous question.

He answered it though, and asked for clarification and he just kept repeating the same inane question.

He's just come off the pitch, he should know better as a fellow professional

Deusexmachina

Weepsie wrote: »

He answered it though, and asked for clarification and he just kept repeating the same inane question.

He's just come off the pitch, he should know better as a fellow professional

Fair enough.

Buer

Deusexmachina wrote:

Why can’t you ask it if ‘a blind man could see it’?

Because it's insulting and critical. There's a time and a manner for such queries and Corrigan got it wrong.

Deusexmachina

Buer wrote: »

Because it's insulting and critical. There's a time and a manner for such queries and Corrigan got it wrong.

Probably so. Maybe former players are better off not trying to be journalists.

It must piss the real jpurnalists off that these guys elbow their way in without the qualifications and experience.

I do think that we have to be careful not to be afraid to ask hard questions though. Journalists should not be fans.

Rigor Mortis

Buer wrote: »

Because it's insulting and critical. There's a time and a manner for such queries and Corrigan got it wrong.

Normally I think Reggie is fairly awful but actually the question was fair and Pom's answer was nonsense. Munster didn't front up today. Peter can take all the huff he wants but the question was fair. Our issue is that on a teabag size island a former leinster player can't be seen (by a player not anyone on here) as objective in asking the question. And I totally get that. Would we have the same reaction from PoM if Marcus Horgan asked the question.

errlloyd

What Corrigan probably had to do there was come at the question in context of Europe next week.

"Peter has this fixture lost its simmer with Europe next week, would players give it more if it was played in Easter?"

Or something. The way he asked the question was hunting.

BBDBB

hmmm, asking a loaded question and then finding further ways to ask it in order to confirm his supposition

sounds like Reggie really IS a journalist rather than an ex player

Turnipman

Deusexmachina wrote: »

I didn’t see live it to be fair. You might be right. Just seems churlish and immature to me. Reggie is a decent bloke and a fellow professional. No need to get all piqued by a fairly innocuous question.

You can watch it here:-

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/1007/910588-omahony/

Rigor Mortis

BBDBB wrote: »

hmmm, asking a loaded question and then finding further ways to ask it in order to confirm his supposition

sounds like Reggie really IS a journalist rather than an ex player

It's not a loaded question though. A loaded question is 'are you happy to be off the gear?' This was a totally fair question, which POM was never going to answer honestly.

Why couldn't we have had something like this before the game. A salty interview with a fan favourite would have been ideal fodder for the build up thread.

Burkie1203

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

It's not a loaded question though. A loaded question is 'are you happy to be off the gear?' This was a totally fair question, which POM was never going to answer honestly.

I thought it was a fair enough question. Munster were piss poor today and lacked intensity for a lot of the game. Maybe the Erasmus situation is creeping in. Guess the next few weeks will tell its own story

Rewatched the game and VDF was MOTM for me. His linespeed in defence was awesome.

CatFromHue

Turnipman wrote: »

You can watch it here:-

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2017/1007/910588-omahony/

The lady doth protest too much, methinks

.

CatFromHue

CatFromHue wrote: »

.

Yeah there is a bit of this. O'Mahony wouldn't have been bothered with the question but for the fact that it was true. He does need to question his team and they weren't playing for keeps today. Neither were Leinster, but Leinster didn't lose.

Maybe everyone is keeping their tinder-dry for Europe and not overly prioritising a regular league fixture (and that is prudent) but the match today had nothing close to the almost test level like intensity of previous years.

Clegg

Thought today's game was a step up from some of the offerings over the last few years. It wasn't a brilliant game, but both sides tried to play with a decent tempo.

Burkie1203

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah there is a bit of this. O'Mahony wouldn't have been bothered with the question but for the fact that it was true. He does need to question his team and they weren't playing for keeps today. Neither were Leinster, but Leinster didn't lose.

Maybe everyone is keeping their tinder-dry for Europe and not overly prioritising a regular league fixture (and that is prudent) but the match today had nothing close to the almost test level like intensity of previous years.

Define intensity though? For me this game is where you want to see the basics of your game getting performed with some degree of accuracy and Munster had a lot of passes go to ground, ball off the top of the lineout dropping short of Murray, clearance kicks not finding touch (they werent contestable kicks) etc. It had more then a hint of going through the motions about it with next week in mind

Buer

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe everyone is keeping their tinder-dry for Europe and not overly prioritising a regular league fixture (and that is prudent) but the match today had nothing close to the almost test level like intensity of previous years.

I thought the line speed and intensity in the opening 20 minutes was very impressive from both sides, to be honest. I thought Kilcoyne was a banker for a couple of penalties from watching the opening phases. He was launching himself into the breakdown.

But then Munster just seemed to totally take the foot off. John Ryan's effort on ROL for the opening try was embarrassing. There was a lack of intensity and focus from them. When Devin Toner is breaking the gain line in his carries and not being easily chopped down, you know something isn't right.

The opening minutes of the second half were going to answer who was going to win the game. Leinster came out swinging, Munster barely bothered to come out from their corner. By the time they got some territory, the game was over. Some of their biggest non-performances came from their biggest stars.

POM was bristling at Corrigan's questions but the fact is that he was arguably the biggest underachiever on the field today. If this was your first rugby match and you had to guess which forwards were starting the opening test for the Lions a few months ago, POM probably wouldn't have been in the first 10 names you'd suggest.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Define intensity though?

Intensity for me is doing everything a little faster, a little harder.

The collisions, the rucking, the speed of players getting back to their feet there was no sign of the type of desperate urgency where you reflect on a 40 minute passage of play and say, "jesus, the intensity levels were off the charts".

There was none of that today from either team. It was a standard celtic league match up that used to always be an absolute battle due to the rivalry.

I'm justifying Leinster's performance on the basis that they seemed happy to stay in a lower gear and just grind out a win due to having more depth and a stronger pack.

There is nothing to excuse Munster's performance though, especially from their Lions so I can understand why a journalist / former player / random observer would actually want to know if they were full tilt for that and if not why not. Clearly the fixture just doesn't matter anymore.

irishbucsfan

Intensity was there. Accuracy was a million miles away though. They have the physicality down but if they make mistakes like that again next week they'll lose. That goes for both sides.

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Intensity was there. Accuracy was a million miles away though. They have the physicality down but if they make mistakes like that again next week they'll lose. That goes for both sides.

I'm not sure intensity can really be there when there were efforts like Ryan's for the try. ROL dragged Stander over the line with him and then twisted away to ground the ball. If that was a European game, I don't think either of those things happen.

Intensity was there but only in flashes and mostly in line speed. The breakdown was a very tame affair for almost the entire game, I thought.

Buer

Buer wrote: »

The breakdown was a very tame affair for almost the entire game, I thought.

Nobody wanted to get hurt.

This used to be the game you saved yourself for but not anymore sadly.

turnikett1

Tbh Glasgow feels like a bigger rival than Leinster does these days. Disappointed that Munster didn't play well but otherwise I'm not too bummed out.

sullivlo

Buer wrote: »

I thought the line speed and intensity in the opening 20 minutes was very impressive from both sides, to be honest. I thought Kilcoyne was a banker for a couple of penalties from watching the opening phases. He was launching himself into the breakdown.

But then Munster just seemed to totally take the foot off. John Ryan's effort on ROL for the opening try was embarrassing. There was a lack of intensity and focus from them. When Devin Toner is breaking the gain line in his carries and not being easily chopped down, you know something isn't right.

The opening minutes of the second half were going to answer who was going to win the game. Leinster came out swinging, Munster barely bothered to come out from their corner. By the time they got some territory, the game was over. Some of their biggest non-performances came from their biggest stars.

POM was bristling at Corrigan's questions but the fact is that he was arguably the biggest underachiever on the field today. If this was your first rugby match and you had to guess which forwards were starting the opening test for the Lions a few months ago, POM probably wouldn't have been in the first 10 names you'd suggest.

I was sitting in line with where POM tied his shoes. That was the first time I noticed him. I don't really remember seeing him other than that, and I was watching out for his boots...

I thought VDF was great. Ruddock put in a good shift. Fardy has the niggle. My friend described JGP as a terrier when he came on. Thought Byrne was great in the air but a bit of a turnstile in defence. He was more active than Daly though, I thought. My friend mocked me when ROL scored the first as I said he shouldn't be playing... I won't repeat what she said after the second. Thought Tracy did well.

I didn't think that Leinster were ever really in danger of losing the game today. Weird atmosphere too. It certainly wasn't like games of olde, and I was surprised at how few Munster fans were there. Usually for this fixture it would be close to 50:50, but it seemed like they stayed away today.

Had my first pint in months today too. The guinness in the aviva is muck.

kuang1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is nothing to excuse Munster's performance though, especially from their Lions so I can understand why a journalist / former player / random observer would actually want to know if they were full tilt for that and if not why not. Clearly the fixture just doesn't matter anymore.

As a Munster fan, I haven't held any high hopes for this fixture in quite a while.
The fellow Munster fans I mingle with also don't relish this fixture.
Maybe the low expectation on our part is directly responsible for the lessening of the edginess to the build up that some old fans (you in particular) seem to be so itchy for.

It's been quite a while since a victory for either Leinster or Munster has been followed by a "na-na-na-naa-na" response by either sets of fans, much as you may wish otherwise.

Truth is, it's no longer a big fixture in the true sense of "big" fixtures. As has been recognised by others here, it's a gearing up game to European Cup intensity level, with the hope that we'll all hit top gear next week, not this.

Munster were very fortunate to come away with a bonus point today, and I expect Leinster to reach a semi-final in Europe, Munster a quarter.

As for POM v Reggie...Meh.
Reggie was entitled to ask and POM responded appropriately. End of.

thomond2006

Reggie has just given Munster plenty chips for their shoulders. Sound man.

Dreadful game. Please move another interpro to the Aviva and move Leinster-Munster back to the RDS. Please.

Munster should be happy enough they got an LBP. This was a very flat performance.

Buer

thomond2006 wrote:

Reggie has just given Munster plenty chips for their shoulders. Sound man.

I would hope they don't need that at all. The performance and widespread criticism of it should suffice. I would also hope that POM doesn't believe his own answer whatsoever.

Poor_old_gill

The irony of reggie questioning Munster when he played on a Leinster team who presided over some of the most outlandish bottle jobs in Irish sport- is ludicrous.

Does reggie think that him and the boys left it in the dressing room- for roughly 10 years??

CatFromHue

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

The irony of reggie questioning Munster when he played on a Leinster team who presided over some of the most outlandish bottle jobs in Irish sport- is ludicrous.

Does reggie think that him and the boys left it in the dressing room- for roughly 10 years??

Not 10 years no, but yes he does know they left it in the dressing room on occasion.

Other times they just weren't good enough.

Poor_old_gill

CatFromHue wrote: »

Not 10 years no, but yes he does know they left it in the dressing room on occasion.

Other times they just weren't good enough.

10 Years, yes.
And maybe Munster are a little bit off Leinster in terms of quality due to a number of factors- the academies and divying our of central contracts being the main 2 reasons.

Corrigan was part of a Leinster team who had immense talent but didn’t show up, a lot. For him to question a relatively mediocre Munster team is ludicrous

Burkie1203

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

10 Years, yes.
And maybe Munster are a little bit off Leinster in terms of quality due to a number of factors- the academies and divying our of central contracts being the main 2 reasons.

Corrigan was part of a Leinster team who had immense talent but didn’t show up, a lot. For him to question a relatively mediocre Munster team is ludicrous

Corrigan is perfectly entitled to ask the question in his role with TG4.

Central contracts had zero to do with munsters poor performance today

Poor_old_gill

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Corrigan is perfectly entitled to ask the question in his role with TG4.

Central contracts had zero to do with munsters poor performance today

In his role, maybe, but it makes it no less ironic.

kuang1

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Corrigan was part of a Leinster team who had immense talent but didn’t show up, a lot. For him to question a relatively mediocre Munster team is ludicrous

Or perhaps that's exactly why he's the guy to put that question to POM...but add a little humility to it:
"Peter, when I played there were times in dressing rooms where I've suspected the intensity wasn't at the level it should have been, did you feel tonight...etc"

Burkie1203

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

In his role, maybe, but it makes it no less ironic.

Ironic yes. Ludicrous no.

irishbucsfan

People have serious struggles with the concept of irony! I guess Alanis Morissete is a Munster fan.

kuang1

Oh and I struggle with my struggle...if only there were a vehicle for me to purge myself of my limitations and cleanse my soul of limited sense of humour...

DDC1990

The idea that Munster "left it in the dressingroom" or lacked intensity is insulting to both teams.

We were beaten by superior tactics. Leinster's speed rush targetted the likes of Stander stopping him getting any momentum and when we did pop it out the back our long passing especially from Farrell left a lot to be desired as Leinster drifted across enough to disrupt.

I thought VDF was man of the match. He and the rest of Leinster' back row dominated the ruck area and caused plenty of turnovers and penalties.

Munster's defence was actually decent for the most part but the inability to deal with the high ball from our back 3 cost us for Leinster's tries. When Leinster had run out of ideas in attack their go to was a high crossfield ball whivh invariably broke to a Leinster hand and continued the attack.

Intensity wasn't lacking for me from either side. Even in the warm up Farrell smashed Jack O'Donoghue. I think it was a stupid question to ask from Corrigan, a guy who should know better.

swiwi_

thomond2006 wrote: »

Reggie has just given Munster plenty chips for their shoulders. Sound man.

Argh - Cliché101.

If you have to rely on "chips on the shoulder" to get results, you're f*cked.

Surely the Munster team and coaches can come up with better than that? Even if perfectly fits the narrative Munster likes to create around its team.

As an aside, page after page about the Q asked to POM by an ex-Leinster player.

Let. It. Go.

Munster will have to get more mongrel into their pack. Copeland looks about AIL level to me for example, whether at lock or in the back-row.

Schmidt has some interesting back row choices to make for November, I'm assuming Heaslip is out. The only certainly is surely SOB, and then options from VDF, Conan, POM, Stander, Leavy etc. POM is handy in the lineout, but Stander needs to start offering something other than just predictable muscle.

thomond2006

swiwi_ wrote: »

Argh - Cliché101.

If you have to rely on "chips on the shoulder" to get results, you're f*cked.

Surely the Munster team and coaches can come up with better than that? Even if perfectly fits the narrative Munster likes to create around its team.

As an aside, page after page about the Q asked to POM by an ex-Leinster player.

Let. It. Go.

You mad bro? Talk about overreaction.

DDC1990

swiwi_ wrote:

Munster will have to get more mongrel into their pack. Copeland looks about AIL level to me for example, whether at lock or in the back-row.

This is one thing that I've noticed. The difference between Klyne and Copeland is crazy. We look really weak at lock behind Holland and Klyne. Flanagan, Copeland and Wycherly aren't at the level required.

thomond2006

DDC1990 wrote: »

This is one thing that I've noticed. The difference between Klyne and Copeland is crazy. We look really weak at lock behind Holland and Klyne. Flanagan, Copeland and Wycherly aren't at the level required.

Wycherley is a kid. It's way too early to write him off. Kleyn is desperately missed. Tbf to Copeland he's only in the side due to an injury crisis. He's way down the pecking order in a fully fit squad.

Turnipman

swiwi_ wrote: »

Argh - Cliché101.

If you have to rely on "chips on the shoulder" to get results, you're f*cked.

Surely the Munster team and coaches can come up with better than that? Even if perfectly fits the narrative Munster likes to create around its team.

That for me is the major flaw in POM's captaincy and Munster's approach: it's all about "pashun and aggression" - with bugger all intellect on display.

They haven't got the Foley tragedy to motivate them this season, so they're looking for a new motivator. Be a bit ironic if it turns out to be Reggie!

Let's see how far the passion and aggression gets them over the next couple of games and then we can review their prospects.

Erik Shin

DDC1990 wrote: »

This is one thing that I've noticed. The difference between Klyne and Copeland is crazy. We look really weak at lock behind Holland and Klyne. Flanagan, Copeland and Wycherly aren't at the level required.

Of course they aren't...and we all know that...I'm really surprised we bothered with Flanagan...maybe they need B&I cover for next week ....but Ryan is a huge loss and that needs to be addressed quickly... Kleyn is a beast, but he needs help

DDC1990

thomond2006 wrote:

Wycherley is a kid. It's way too early to write him off. Kleyn is desperately missed. Tbf to Copeland he's only in the side due to an injury crisis. He's way down the pecking order in a fully fit squad.

I don't mean to write them off but for this season those lads aren't good enough to win trophies this season IMO.

Hippo

I thought Earls was arguably MOTM, he looked superb and really hungry. The rest of his team, not so much. POM would be better off keeping his Angry Face for the actual game, he contributed very little.

It was a competitive match but it's lost a lot of the nasty edge it used to have - some posters have said it's pretty much just another game now and it certainly felt like that. Bucketloads for both teams to work on if they're to make any impression at all in Europe, especially Leinster in that group.

Turnipman

Turnipman wrote: »

That for me is the major flaw in POM's captaincy and Munster's approach: it's all about "pashun and aggression" - with bugger all intellect on display.

They haven't got the Foley tragedy to motivate them this season, so they're looking for a new motivator. Be a bit ironic if it turns out to be Reggie!

Let's see how far the passion and aggression gets them over the next couple of games and then we can review their prospects.

Eh tell us what you really think...

I have to ask it again, where were you for the build-up thread. This is gold!

Bridge93

Watched it back just there and both sides well below their best. Munster in particular should be concerned. Leinsters squad allows them to absorb some of the injuries they have but not Munster. They've got a reasonable group for Europe when compared to some others but still concerning.

I thought Munster looked the better team for the first 20/25 mins and were unlucky to be behind without really creating anything of more. Leinster just kept dropping the ball in open play and it ultimately cost them. Second half was very much one way traffic until Leinster seemed to pack up to head home.

Disappointing to gift Munster two/three tries and a bonus point they didn't deserve. Leinster themselves left a few chances out there like Conans break and offload to a red shirt or JGP firing the ball at ROL five metres out.

Lots to work on for both

turnikett1

Hippo wrote: »

The rest of his team, not so much. POM would be better off keeping his Angry Face for the actual game, he contributed very little. .

11 tackles, 1 missed. More than any Leinster back row?

Buer

turnikett1 wrote:

11 tackles, 1 missed. More than any Leinster back row?

Leinster had the majority of possession. I would imagine all Munster back rows made more tackles than their Leinster counterparts and Munster made far more tackles overall.

irishbucsfan

Maybe would be more interesting to see player's tackle stats as a percentage of their teams tackle count.