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Che Guevara features on new €1 stamp issued by An Post

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Statues of KKK members and those who fought for slavery fine.
    Stamp of Che they lose their minds.
    lol.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,697 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    using an post logic... soon to b followed by William Joyce and Khalid Kelly stamps

    DLcO-aLWAAA-czL.jpg:small

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Nabber wrote: »
    Don’t know where Che being racist sprung from. His observations during his motorcycle tour? His expedition to the Congo?

    I read his Congo diaries about 15years ago. My memory was that the Congolese weren’t as committed as Che was to their liberation.

    There was a lot of frustration in that campaign towards the Congolese over their lack enthusiasm and their resolve under enemy fire. Their lack of resolve often put the Cuban fighters in danger.

    Calling someone a racist is very easy thing, proving you are not is very difficult and removing the stigma is near impossible.


    He married a black woman, insisted on integrated schools way before they had them in the US, even condemned discrimination against black people in the UN. But an out of context note from a diary when he was you makes him a racist. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    As far as I know Gandhi was pretty racist too. It's pointless to judge old heroes by today's standards.

    Anyway I remember first year of college and bumping into one of other first year students in library who told me he is just looking for literature on Che Geuarra. He wanted to find out what he was about because he has this really cool t-shirt with his image. I doubt there is a single document, picture, object or legend responsible for more clueless middle class revolutionaries than that photograph. Che might not deserve a stamp but that photo does. :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Not cool - this would be offensive for many recipients, particularly in South America where he tortured and murdered many.

    Like sending Pol Pot stamps to Cambodia.

    These should be withdrawn.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    No doubt the local shinners will be buying them up like confetti for ferris to spray around the next Garda murderers he picks up from pokey.....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,079 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    hmmm wrote: »
    Not cool - this would be offensive for many recipients, particularly in South America where he tortured and murdered many.

    Like sending Pol Pot stamps to Cambodia.

    These should be withdrawn.

    Thankfully this would be insufficient postage to get a letter to South America.

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    Usual crybabies on this. Che was a pure dacent sham.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    FTA69 wrote: »
    Usual crybabies on this. Che was a pure dacent sham.

    What does sham mean by your definition out of interest?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    timthumbni wrote: »
    What does sham mean by your definition out of interest?

    A head like. A feen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    FitzpatrickChe.jpg

    An interesting story on how the iconic image came about.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrillero_Heroico#Jim_Fitzpatrick
    "The first image I did of Che was psychedelic, it looks like he is in seaweed. His hair was not hair, it was shapes that I felt gave it an extra dimension. That was the image I produced for the magazine and that was done before he died and that is the important thing about that image. At first it did not print. It was considered far too strong and revolutionary. I was very inspired by Che's trip to Bolivia. He went there with the intent to overthrow the intensely corrupt government, helped by the Americans at the time, and that's where he died. I thought he was one of the greatest men who ever lived and I still do in many ways. And when he was murdered, I decided I wanted to do something about it, so I created the poster. I felt this image had to come out, or he would not be commemorated otherwise, he would go where heroes go, which is usually into anonymity." — Jim Fitzpatrick, 2005
    To create the image Fitzpatrick made a paper negative on a piece of equipment called a grant. They were then printed in one colour black and one colour red, and he handpainted the star in yellow. Fitzpatrick "wanted the image to breed like rabbits" and hand printed thousands of images to give away to anyone for free in London, in addition to getting friends to pass them out while encouraging others to make their own versions. He printed about a hundred copies at a time to fulfil the demand of political groups in Ireland, France, and the Netherlands who began requesting the image. A batch was also sent to Spain, where they were seized by Franco's police.

    Because of Fitzpatrick's desire for the photograph to reflect something of himself, he raised Che's eyes more and added his initial, a reversed "F" on the shoulder. It was not until the 40th anniversary of Che's death that Fitzpatrick admitted to this fact stating "I’m a bit mischievous, so I never told anyone." At this time Fitzpatrick said that "I love the picture and wherever I am in the world, if I see it, I take a photo of it. I always have a chuckle when I see that little 'F'. I know that it's mine." In November 2008, Fitzpatrick announced that he would be signing over the copyright of his Che image to the William Soler Pediatric Cardiology Hospital in Havana, Cuba. In announcing his reason for ensuring all future proceeds would go to the children's hospital, Fitzpatrick stated that "Cuba trains doctors and then sends them around the world … I want their medical system to benefit." Additionally, Fitzpatrick publicised his desire to gift the original artwork to the archive run by Guevara's widow, Aleida March.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/art-and-design/visual-art/the-irish-artist-who-captured-che-1.576934
    Now, the artist is fighting to win the copyright he hadn’t wanted more than four decades ago – but it’s actually a little more complicated than that. The drive to gain copyright began in 2004, when Fitzpatrick decided that he wanted to give the royalties from one of the world’s most reproduced images to Cuba. Initially he wanted to donate to their hospitals, but then he realised that Cuban hospitals are so advanced that they could be teaching the Irish a thing or two. But he still wanted to make the gesture, so instead he will give the money to Guevara’s widow, Aleida, and to the Cuban people. “It’s not charity, it’s solidarity,” he says.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,187 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    And a quote from the man himself:




    I look forward to the squirming justifications of racism from the usual fan boys...
    Racism was fairly mainstream until recently


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Nettle Soup


    timthumbni wrote: »
    What does sham mean by your definition out of interest?

    You're not wide.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    FTA69 wrote: »
    A head like. A feen.

    I have no idea what a feen is either tbh. A sham in Norn Iron is a fake/ pretend/farce. Hence my confusion...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,675 ✭✭✭✭Ol' Donie


    RayM wrote: »
    It's nice to see right-wingers suddenly giving a shit about racism and homophobia.

    It's hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Carry wrote: »
    I think the stamps are really eyecatching. Brilliant idea from An Post.
    Ordered them today, and it's the first time I'm really looking forward to send Christmas cards with a little Che on the envelope ...:D Oh the faces of some recipients ...
    Jaysus yeah! I can think of five people off the top of my head that will likely have a sh1t fit if that's on their Xmas card envelope. I'm buying a few too. :D

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭Asus X540L


    And a quote from the man himself:

    The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink


    That sounds more like the Irish tbh. You'd hardly ever see blacks in the pubs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    Asus X540L wrote: »
    That sounds more like the Irish tbh. You'd hardly ever see blacks in the pubs.

    the black Irish


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,997 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Interesting development, I wonder which mass murderer An Post will commemorate next?

    Lets hope it's a right wing hero, so the outraged people can show some moral consistency.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    timthumbni wrote: »
    I have no idea what a feen is either tbh. A sham in Norn Iron is a fake/ pretend/farce. Hence my confusion...

    A sham in parts of the south means a bloke, or a fella. It's a word I would associate with Sligo, Leitrim, Fermanagh


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    I can only imagine the outrage from the shinners and assorted lefties if the UK post office put Cromwell on a stamp. But as long as it's a leftwing hero who massacred rightwing civilians, it's a bit of a laugh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,187 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    hmmm wrote: »
    I can only imagine the outrage from the shinners and assorted lefties if the UK post office put Cromwell on a stamp. But as long as it's a leftwing hero who massacred rightwing civilians, it's a bit of a laugh.

    Cromwell did a lot for this country


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭Asus X540L


    Cromwell did a lot for this country

    like kill nearly 50% of its people?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Che has ancestors who lived in Ireland


    https://irishinargentina.com/che-guevaras-irish-roots/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭Asus X540L


    Che has ancestors who lived in Ireland


    https://irishinargentina.com/che-guevaras-irish-roots/

    He went on a pub crawl down the west coast aka "the wild Atlantic way (lol)"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    Che has ancestors who lived in Ireland


    https://irishinargentina.com/che-guevaras-irish-roots/


    apparently this is why he wanted to stay on the west coast the night they landed in Shannon, he was curious because his ancestors were Lynch from Galway


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    Che killed 6 British soldiers and 4 Protestants before he was killed himself don’t ya know....


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,939 ✭✭✭20Cent


    1992_CivilWar4.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭magentis


    timthumbni wrote: »
    Che killed 6 British soldiers and 4 Protestants before he was killed himself don’t ya know....

    Yawn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,012 ✭✭✭uch


    Ah Mr. Lynch, on the new stamp, don't forget his Granda was a Paddy

    21/25



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Im ultra left wing so big fan.

    Theres no justifying racism however he made up for racist remarks in later years surely.

    No way was he racist. Just the majority opinion at the time absorbed by a young white argentine


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭Asus X540L


    Im ultra left wing so big fan.

    Big fan?

    What do you like about him, genuinely?

    Are you also a big fan of Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, etc?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    If you're lazy can you tape a 1 Euro coin to the corner of the envelope instead?
    A euro and sellotape! You think i'm made of money?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 399 ✭✭Paleblood


    We can debate the man's politics until we're blue in the face, but you have to give it to him, he was brilliant in The Usual Suspects.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,813 ✭✭✭One More Toy


    Asus X540L wrote: »
    Big fan?

    What do you like about him, genuinely?

    Are you also a big fan of Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, etc?

    Im more of a fan of Marxism/Leninism than any one person tbh.

    What do you like about capitilism, genuinely? Is it the homeless dying at parliments door? Just as long as you can buy designer gear and the latest piece of shít being peddled by Apple :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,549 ✭✭✭maryishere


    hmmm wrote: »
    Not cool - this would be offensive for many recipients, particularly in South America where he tortured and murdered many.

    Like sending Pol Pot stamps to Cambodia.

    These should be withdrawn.

    Well said. Better still, boycott the post office and use email etc instead.



    seachto7 wrote: »
    I bet some Irish Americans back on the auld sod will have trouble sending postcards back to Texas

    lol. Reminds me of 1983 when Taoiseach Haughey thought it was great to get a dig at the British over the "Malvinas" war, and then he wondered why we got no tourists from the UK the following year. It was ok for him, he could secretly and slyly go to Paris with his Mistress for the most expensive shirts in the world, while telling us to wear the hairshirt.

    Shame on "an Post" for increasing the stamp price to a euro, and for bringing out such an offensive stamp.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,345 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Lovely. This would be nice framed gift for them too.

    1804.png

    Look at you spending at least €16 on a gift.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    A euro and sellotape! You think i'm made of money?

    I figured the cost of the sellotape could be offset by the saving on the travel to the post office. Not just a hat rack my friend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,205 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Paleblood wrote: »
    We can debate the man's politics until we're blue in the face, but you have to give it to him, he was brilliant in The Usual Suspects.

    I hate the way he's turned in to a complete sell out on those Heineken adds though....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    jiltloop wrote: »
    I hate the way he's turned in to a complete sell out on those Heineken adds though....


    He's my favourite puss in boots.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 493 ✭✭Tsipras


    A great lad


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,863 ✭✭✭seachto7


    maryishere wrote: »
    Well said. Better still, boycott the post office and use email etc instead.






    lol. Reminds me of 1983 when Taoiseach Haughey thought it was great to get a dig at the British over the "Malvinas" war, and then he wondered why we got no tourists from the UK the following year. It was ok for him, he could secretly and slyly go to Paris with his Mistress for the most expensive shirts in the world, while telling us to wear the hairshirt.

    Shame on "an Post" for increasing the stamp price to a euro, and for bringing out such an offensive stamp.

    Yawn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,893 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Interesting development, I wonder which mass murderer An Post will commemorate next?
    Why not Mao Zedong? Or Pol Pot? Surely some Nazis had a great time when they stopped over in Ireland for a few pints, why not commemorate them? ...
    Asus X540L wrote: »
    Big fan?

    What do you like about him, genuinely?
    Probably the racism, the homophobia, the mass murders. Textbook commie/socialism.
    Are you also a big fan of Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao, etc?
    Im more of a fan of Marxism/Leninism than any one person tbh.
    Yes. Because over 100,000,000 dead is just not enough. We clearly need more Marxism/Leninism so we can kill 200,000,000 :rolleyes:
    What do you like about capitilism, genuinely? Is it the homeless dying at parliments door? Just as long as you can buy designer gear and the latest piece of shbeing peddled by Apple :pac:
    1. I like not being one of the 100,000,000+ that were slaughtered by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the Kims, Pol Pot, Che, Chavez/Maduro and their evil cohorts. That's kinda cool.
    2. I like not being the property of some evil bureaucrat. Being able to choose my profession, work for a wage, open a business if I so choose, and keep most of my earnings.
    3. I like being able to use said earning to buy things I need, like food. This is kind of a problem in Venezuela, where despite having a year round growing season, massive reserves of oil and plenty of natural assets for tourism, the average Venezuelan is losing about 8kg a year on the "Maduro diet" (i.e. there is not enough of anything including basic foodstuffs, so the Venezuelan people are on a starvation diet. I have a decent place to live, my own car (only 1 in 7 families in the Soviet Union had cars by the 1980s, and the waiting list to buy one was 10 years if you had all the money up-front)
    4. I like that it is not just me that lives comfortably because of capitalism, but billions of people who were lifted from poverty by capitalists inventing things (like the industrial revolution, railways, electricity, the telephone, information technology, all of these things were invented in capitalist societies) and employing lots of people.

      Capitalism has done more than any other force on Earth to lift billions of people out of poverty (which I kinda like) while Communism has done nothing but slaughter, starve and enslave people by the hundreds of millions. It always seems to end up with Stalinist purges or turning places into hellholes like North Korea. Usually with a famine or two thrown in for good measure. I'm not so keen on that ...
    5. Many of the "homeless" are on the streets because of mental illness or because they are on drugs. They will always be with us whether we have capitalism or not.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    How long have you been out of the country that you think it is their most expensive stamp ever?

    Che-A1-Size-Proofs_Page_4.jpg?resize=183%2C275&ssl=1

    More information relating to the image by Alberto Korda and Jim Fitzpatrick. It appears not everyone is aware of the story.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrillero_Heroico#Alberto_Korda
    As a lifelong communist and supporter of the Cuban Revolution until his death, Alberto Korda claimed no payment for his picture. A modified version of the portrait through the decades was also reproduced on a range of different media, though Korda never asked for royalties. Korda reasoned that Che's image represented his revolutionary ideals, and thus the more his picture spread the greater the chance Che's ideals would spread as well. Korda's refusal to seek royalties for the vast circulation of his photograph "helped it become the ultimate symbol of Marxist revolution and anti-imperialist struggle."

    However, Korda did not want commercialisation of the image in relation to products he believed Guevara would not support, especially alcohol. This belief was displayed for the first time in 2000, when in response to Smirnoff using Che's picture in a vodka commercial, Korda claimed his moral rights (a form of copyright law) and sued advertising agency Lowe Lintas and Rex Features, the company that supplied the photograph. Lintas and Rex claimed that the image was in the public domain. The final result was an out of court settlement for USD $50,000 to Korda, which he donated to the Cuban healthcare system, stating "if Che was still alive, he would have done the same."

    After the settlement, Korda reiterated that he was not against its propagation altogether, telling reporters:

    "As a supporter of the ideals for which Che Guevara died, I am not averse to its reproduction by those who wish to propagate his memory and the cause of social justice throughout the world, but I am categorically against the exploitation of Che's image for the promotion of products such as alcohol, or for any purpose that denigrates the reputation of Che.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ireland-art-che/irish-artist-bids-to-copyright-guevara-image-idUSTRE71G5UG20110217
    Either way, the families of both Korda and Guevara are united in their wish to frustrate commercial uses of the image that would likely be anathema to the communist revolutionary, Fitzpatrick said.

    “I simply want to hand it over and give the family the rights to the image that I created and let them decide what to do with it,” he said.

    “I caused the problem and now I am seeking to rectify it.”

    Another interesting quote from Che Guevara in his address to the UN in 1964.

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Che_Guevara#Address_to_the_United_Nations_.281964.29
    Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the color of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men — how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom? The government of the United States is not the champion of freedom, but rather the perpetrator of exploitation and oppression against the peoples of the world and against a large part of its own population.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,845 ✭✭✭timthumbni


    seachto7 wrote: »
    Yawn.

    Is “yawn” the go to response to any posts that a person doesn’t agree with now. How cute and edgy....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    I think that this could be a marketing strategy by An Post to raise revenue on the run up to Christmas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭amtc


    Just to state that An Post don't decide on stamp designs themselves, there is a stamp design committee under the department of communications. Whereas it does have An Post representatives on it they are in the minority. A proposed stamp programme goes to cabinet each year with a shortlist for approval.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭donegaLroad


    amtc wrote: »
    Just to state that An Post don't decide on stamp designs themselves, there is a stamp design committee under the department of communications. Whereas it does have An Post representatives on it they are in the minority. A proposed stamp programme goes to cabinet each year with a shortlist for approval.

    Does An Post have the final say as to what stamps are selected?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,836 ✭✭✭Allinall


    His legacy will always be the founding of
    The Tooting Popular Front.


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