Che Guevara features on new €1 stamp issued by An Post

20Cent

That Castro selling blood story makes zero sense when you think about it.

Permabear

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Hotblack Desiato

c_man wrote: »

Ah I'm just pulling the pi$$. We're all flawed in some way or another which is why "hero" worship is a bad thing when we elevate someone way beyond where we should.

I stopped having heroes when I stopped being a child.

We all have feet of clay, all of us are flawed in one way or another - some more than others admittedly.

Personally I don't think the stamp thing is such a hot idea.

Whatever about his guerilla activities, where he was at least putting his ass on the line and he can have little complaint about his fate as a result, when he was sitting on the hog's back in post-revolutionary Havana chomping cigars he personally signed the death warrants of many dozens, if not hundreds, of political prisoners. Not the sort of person we should be putting on our nation's stamps.

Hotblack Desiato

Carry wrote: »

I get the impression that the posters here, which oppose strongly Che Guevara on a stamp and are frantically searching the internet to find out what he did wrong or attributing wrongdoings to him he didn't commit, are those who otherwise don't have a problem with pitchfork justice (approximate quotes: "Car crash? That was a Muslim!", "People on the dole? Should be confined to chain gangs!", "Women having an opinion that doesn't suit me? Feminazi!").

You may get that impression, but that impression is wrong.

Guevara is a 20th century political pop-icon, he is of Irish descent, he was no mass murderer

He ordered the deaths of many people whose only crime was to oppose communist repression.

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Stampy mcstampface

Those poor Nationalist resident's of Northern Ireland don't get a choice, queenie is on all the stamps.

But they do have the option of sticking them on upside down

If Che caught people doing that sort of thing they'd probably be shot.

Synthol

Permabear wrote: »

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Oh the irony....

Ulysses Gaze

Fascist butchery = Bad

Marxist/Communist Butchery = Just a few (million) broken eggs to make that ideological omelette a reality. No harm, no foul.

Both ideologies are ****ing deranged and humanity would be better off without either.

And Guevara should not be next to near an Irish stamp.

Why not MLK instead? He has Irish roots. And was not a murderous butcher.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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For a start there is no such thing as the Inter-American Human Rights Commission. The story is downhill from there.

dav3

Let me talk the usual outrage merchants through the process of buying a stamp.

Customer: Hello, I'd like to purchase a €1 stamp please.
Post Office: Certainly, would you like one of the new iconic and stylish Che Guevara stamps?
Customer: No thank you, I'll take a different one.
Post Office: No problem, there you go.

It's as simple as that really.

There's a new interview out with Jim Fitzpatrick in relation to Che and the stamp below.

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Have a guess at what Comisión Interamericana de Derechos Humanos means in English.[/quote]

The inter American commission on human rights.

Classic confirmation bias

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Have a guess at what Comisión Interamericana de Derechos Humanos means in English.[/quote]

The inter American commission on human rights.

Classic confirmation bias

Permabear

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dav3

Permabear wrote: »

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I realise that it may be difficult for you to understand, an immigrant in a country run by a talking orange and subjected to american propaganda on a daily basis, but I can assure you that 99.9999% of people in this country are not embarrassed by a stamp.

I suggest you concern yourself more with the actions of your dear leader currently running your country into the sh*tter, rather than allowing yourself to be outraged by a stamp over here.

Hotblack Desiato

Heads up for you, just because Permabear lives in the US does not imply he agrees with Trump. The majority of US citizens who cast a vote in the presidential election did not vote for Trump. And whether Permabear agrees with Trump or not (who is a vile person as far as I am concerned) it makes no difference whatsoever regarding the virtuousness or otherwise of Ernesto "Che" Guevara.

Permabear

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dav3

Permabear wrote: »

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Apart from a few headbangers on twitter, Irish people have no problem with the stamp.

You really should concern yourself with more important issues.

osarusan

donegaLroad wrote: »

I think that this could be a marketing strategy by An Post to raise revenue on the run up to Christmas.

Che was a great fan of the auld Christmas shopping.

Permabear

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20Cent

Protip,

When something is written which neatly sums up everything you think about an issue or person then its usually propaganda.

The story about the blood being sold to Vietnam (why would Vietnam need to buy blood from a country the other side of the world from it). In dollars no less to emphasise extra hypocrisy. Draining prisoners of blood like a vampire. Stephen King could have written it.


Go look for this report, guarantee it won't be found because it doesn't exist.
Whoever wrote the bit Permabear copied and pasted didn't even get the name of the organisation right.

A lot of stories about Cuba, Castro and Che are propagande.

Permabear

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Sheeps

If you're offended by a stamp, you have bigger problems.

20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Only place I've heard it mentioned is in this thread tbh.

dav3

Permabear wrote: »

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You appear to be more concerned over a stamp depicting a person who has been dead for 50 years rather than a real life living maniac destroying your country. Which one poses the greatest threat to you?

More from the interview with Jim Fitzpatrick below.

gitzy16v

20Cent wrote: »

Protip,

Gave up after this.

Really don't care about che Guevara being on a stamp,could be a collecters item down the line,like a penny black?.
Maybe do all sorts of controversial figures and rejuvenate the stamp collectors scene.

Permabear

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gitzy16v

Permabear wrote: »

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Www.thatstheinternet.com.

_Dara_

Permabear wrote: »

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It’s not remotely believable that if your only two choices were Clinton and Trump, you would have chosen Clinton. I’m basing that on your posts here in the lead up to the US election where you defended Trump at any opportunity and criticised Clinton just as much. It’s certainly... convenient to have the third party candidate to hide behind but you insult people’s intelligence by making out that you would have had a hard time chosing between the main party candidates. Who your mot voted for is irrelevant.

And I’d wager most people are NOT embarrassed by the stamp. I reckon indifference would be the most common reaction. Talk about hyperbole from yourself.

Permabear

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Ash.J.Williams

I think it's a stupid idea. It looks cool and his grandfather was Irish or whatever, but other than that there's two sides in war and if you commemorate one side you are giving two fingers to the other and will end up having to justify yourself which I doubt ireland can do.

hmmm

I look forward to the Pinochet stamp next year. Or maybe we could celebrate Franco, or perhaps even the Argentinian military dictatorship?

The "stamp committee" should stick to deciding which Pine Marten to put on Irish stamps.

Wombatman

hmmm wrote: »

I look forward to the Pinochet stamp next year. Or maybe we could celebrate Franco, or perhaps even the Argentinian military dictatorship?

The "stamp committee" should stick to deciding which Pine Marten to put on Irish stamps.

The Pine Martens and red squirrels are teaming up to prey on invasive grey squirrels. Are they heroic rebels reclaiming their birthright or just bloodthirsty animals?

hmmm

Wombatman wrote: »

The Pine Martens and red squirrels are teaming up to prey on invasive grey squirrels. Are they heroic rebels reclaiming their birthright or just bloodthirsty animals?

Their anti-immigrant stance clearly marks them out as right-wing conservatives. However their promiscuity and willingness to ignore social conventions by defecating in random locations suggests a leftie-liberal streak.

whisky_galore

mikhail wrote: »

I am left wing, but the idolatry of that thug bemuses me.

He looks good on a T shirt though....:D

Paleblood

hmmm wrote: »

I look forward to the Pinochet stamp next year. Or maybe we could celebrate Franco, or perhaps even the Argentinian military dictatorship?

For the record, I don't think Guevara's image should have been used either, but was he a Pinochet, a Franco? Elsewhere I've read him described as another Pol Pot or Hitler. Is that accurate? The stamp seems to have started a conversation but let's flesh that out with information and facts. What places Che Guevara in the same category as those men?

Fred Swanson

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whisky_galore

Full Marx wrote: »

Are you oblivious to the criminal blockade the US has imposed on Cuba?

At least all Cubans have free access to decent Healthcare and education... Something unheard of in your precious America.

Cuba has done OK. It's a better place to live than a lot of other similar and nearby developing countries.

I found Cuba to be brimming with scam artists, panhandlers and prostitutes, maybe that's part of the charm?

There's decent folks too, but most people who approach tourists on the street have got some sort of hustle going on.

The younger crowd are a bit tired of the wizened old revolutionaries, in one Cuban house I noticed a big stack of dvds, they put those on when they broadcast the obligatory Party speeches that go across all tv channels.

There doesn't seem to be a US/capitalism hate thing going on in the general population, saw Cubans happily wearing stuff with Stars and Stripes motifs, Texas Oilers baseball hats etc.

_Dara_

Permabear wrote: »

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You criticised Clinton way more. WAY more. Like, it’s not even close. AND you defended Trump a lot. No way in hell would you ever have defended Clinton on any point and there were a lot of things levelled at her that were outright lies. So there’s that. Defending Trump sometimes but never Clinton but you’d apparently struggle to choose between them? Yeah right. You don’t give people posting here much credit, do you?

As for my join date, I had another account obviously. And? So, go ahead and think that I don’t know what you posted at the time and assume that I also can’t use the search facility. (I’m actually quite adept at that) If that helps you disregard my views, knock yourself out. You’re only fooling yourself.

Sheeps

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Cuba is amazing, like going back in time.

hmmm

Paleblood wrote: »

What places Che Guevara in the same category as those men?

He is a figurehead for revolutionary communism, which tolerates large-scale murder, torture and repression in order to achieve its political aims. Pinochet and the others would see the same price as acceptable, although they are on the other side of the political spectrum. The only difference between most of these characters is scale, they are all quite happy to murder their political opponents - none of them should be on an Irish stamp.

mikhail

Times has a piece on this today. Mostly consists of an interview with a Cuban-American radio host. Brief mention at the end of a FG senator who's written to the relevant minister to object to the decision.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/what-is-ireland-doing-putting-che-guevara-on-a-stamp-1.3249319

Paleblood

hmmm wrote: »

He is a figurehead for revolutionary communism, which tolerates large-scale murder, torture and repression in order to achieve its political aims. Pinochet and the others would see the same price as acceptable, although they are on the other side of the political spectrum. The only difference between most of these characters is scale, they are all quite happy to murder their political opponents - none of them should be on an Irish stamp.

So what an individual like Guevara actually done is less important than what he represents, and what he represents is something that shouldn't be on an Irish stamp, regardless of whether he actually ranks alongside those others in terms of scale or indeed their fundamental nature.

That's a fair analysis.

A Little Pony

He didn't believe in democracy, why are some Irish people all over him as if he would approve of the Irish state? He would want a communist dictatorship implemented. People should really apply some thinking before just jumping on board the wagon.

Paleblood

A Little Pony wrote: »

He didn't believe in democracy

Neither did W.B Yeats but that never stopped his ugly mug appearing on a stamp. :P

Tom Mann Centuria

Got mine today anyway.

Full Marx

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Got mine today anyway.

Looks great, hopefully mine will have got delivered today too

Ipso

I look forward to the Wolfie Smith stamp.

hmmm

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Got mine today anyway.

I thought this was spun as a way of celebrating an Irish artwork? This FDC appears to me to be celebrating Guevara himself - the Minister should order this withdrawn immediately.

Ipso

He helped found a basket case country in Cuba, Ireland is a bit of a basket case. Birds of a feather etc

Permabear

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Ipso

Permabear wrote: »

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But rum is cheap!
Viva la revolucion, as long as I don't have to live there.