Che Guevara features on new €1 stamp issued by An Post

Permabear

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20Cent

A Little Pony wrote: »

To the people who love Cuba would you want Ireland to be a one party Marxist-Leninist state? It's almost as if people want to support the theory, the ideology but don't want to live it. Which makes it absolutely null and void to begin with. So you do have to question the supporters of Marxism.

Its all relative. If I was a peasant farmer living hand to mouth one bad crop away from watching my family starve it might have sounded good.

Ipso

Sheeps wrote: »

You don't have to be a Marxist to have enjoyed your time in a communist country, or to appreciate (or in this case, simply not take issue with) a stamp.

Again, when you get to leave and not have to wallow in it's misery then it's easier to enjoy.

Permabear

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Sheeps

Permabear wrote: »

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So you're doing exactly as I had summarised you are doing. You're using one single photo, and using it to reinforce your view of an entire country. First of all, I saw very few supermarkets in Cuba, even in Havana, they're just not that common.

Mostly due to the fact that people buy from small street merchants, which there are plenty of.

Sheeps

Permabear wrote: »

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I met plenty of Cubans who were proud to live there, one gentleman had moved back home from the U.S having one of the few granted a visa.

Tom Mann Centuria

Great stamp though.

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Nope. I'm citing numerous reports from credible media outlets such as the New York Times and the BBC, rather than accepting at face value the alleged personal experience of one poster on a pseudonymous website.

You claim that there is plenty of food in Cuba. Meanwhile, every credible report on the subject contradicts you by discussing the widespread shortages. The Cuban government itself has imposed food rationing for every citizen, including seven pounds of rice, five eggs, and half a bottle of cooking oil per month, and one sandwich-sized piece of bread per day.

Your anecdote about food being "plentiful" is frankly nonsense -- but you have to keep up the lies and spin to pretend that the communist system there is working.[/quote]

So you've been there then?

Cuba has to be portrayed as a hellhole or Americans might be wondering why they don't have proper healthcare.

Ipso

20Cent wrote: »

So you've been there then?

Cuba has to be portrayed as a hellhole or Americans might be wondering why they don't have proper healthcare.

Let me guess, you're one of those who think Cuba has the best health care system in the world.
And it's interesting that you bring up America, it seems that one of the reasons many on the left attach themselves to dodgy and barbaric regimes is to use it as some crutch to protest against the US.
Are you willing to use the citizens of a dictatorship as a pawn in making criticisms against the US?

Permabear

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20Cent

Ipso wrote: »

20Cent wrote: »

So you've been there then?

Cuba has to be portrayed as a hellhole or Americans might be wondering why they don't have proper healthcare.

Let me guess, you're one of those who think Cuba has the best health care system in the world.
And it's interesting that you bring up America, it seems that one of the reasons many on the left attach themselves to dodgy and barbaric regimes is to use it as some crutch to protest against the US.
Are you willing to use the citizens of a dictatorship as a pawn in making criticisms against the US?

Lots of assumptions there all wrong of coursre.

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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If Cuba isn't actually a hellhole, why have thousands of Cubans taken to the sea in makeshift rafts, risking their lives in an attempt to escape?[/quote]

Same reasons people leave lots of countries. I believe your president intends to build a 2000km wall to keep out all the South Americans.

Permabear

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Ulysses Gaze

Permabear wrote: »

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Failed states.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

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Wow. When was that taken?

Permabear

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Tom Mann Centuria

I think I'll start collecting a few more different ones, ours is still pretty classy. Lots of Cuban stamps, must post some of those later.

Tom Mann Centuria

Here's the Argentinian one with its first day cover.

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Ireland and the US were the exact same then. Looking at the past using today's values and norms is a mistake.

Tom Mann Centuria

It's interesting the variety of of stamps you get with his image.

Permabear

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20Cent

Permabear wrote: »

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Er, I'm not looking at the past. Censorship in Cuba is widespread today. The Amnesty International page linked above is dated March 11, 2016.[/quote]

Guevara died 50 years so ya can't really blame him for lack of broadband.

Ol' Donie

Permabear wrote: »

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I can't say about Venezuela. I haven't been there.

I have been in Cuba, though. I'm not interested in reassuring you of anything, you have your mind made up. I'm not sure if there's any point in discussing any of this with you, since you have clearly decided not to let an actual eyewitness account influence the conclusion you've already come to.

meeeeh

It's putting the paradise living didn't catch a bit more around the world. Who needs material possession or food when you have warm glow of ideology to sustain you.

The problem is though that the the whole Che myth rests on buying a t shirt is stamp or whatever else capitalism can sell you.

Paleblood

Stradbally, County Laois.

Tom Mann Centuria

The other stamp they issued this month celebrates Post Crossing.

Not something I'd ever heard of, but looks interesting. Exchanging post cards around the world.



Definitely going to keep an eye on the stamp releases more in future. Quite a cheap thing for the kids to collect too.

markodaly

dav3 wrote: »

It looks impressive. I tried getting some last night, but they were all sold out, thankfully they're back in stock, for now.

The outrage gang are helping to drive it's popularity and in doing so, helping it to become one of the most popular releases ever from An Post. Which in turn will hopefully reverse any planned closures of post offices around the country.

Everyones a winner, apart from the whiners.

Che Guevara stamps help stop the decline of rural post offices! Delusional much?

markodaly

Permabear wrote: »

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If Cuba had a land border, they would have had to build a Caribbean Berlin Wall to keep its people locked into that hell hole. No one agreed with the Berlin Wall, so why do people make excuses for this regime?

I can get why from an artist point of view that the image in iconic and famous. It is a nice portrait it must be said. The Nazi's and Soviets did some tremendous artist pieces in their time, real revolutionary stuff for the times and still holds true today. There is a reason why you can buy Leni Riefenstahl's works as from Nazi Germany in many Art Galleries around the world. It is not an endorsement per say of the regime, but a look at the artists work.

The same could be said here, however, An Post is not an Art Gallery, it is a mail delivery service and it was unwise in this case to choose this piece as it was always going to be controversial.

markodaly

20Cent wrote: »

Same reasons people leave lots of countries.

Around 20% of Cubans left Cuba when Castro came to power. Why?

Wibbs

markodaly wrote: »

The Nazi's and Soviets did some tremendous artist pieces in their time, real revolutionary stuff for the times and still holds true today.

Well... As an aside... Far more the Soviets. The Commies had the better art by a long shot. They looked to some futurist utopia and their art reflected that. Nazi art was always harking back to some "golden age", it was anodyne and bland. Same for architecture, it was neoclassical only bigger. In film they had some good artists, but that's because it was a new media, so they couldn't really shoot film in an 18th century romantic style(though they often tried). One exception was Fascist Italy. Being Italians they drink in design and art with their mother's milk liked design and new design and art with it. Whereas the German's were busily emptying museums of modern art and often burning it, the Italians were sponsoring it and modernist architecture. Which didn't endear them to old Adolf at all.

Cubans produce some very cool art and have for a long time. Actually a cheap way to get into it are their film posters. They won't use original film posters for foreign films, preferring to let their local artists and printers ready up their own take. Which is usually far more "arty" than anything Hollywood rattles out these days. Silk screen printed too. It was similar in the former Soviet Bloc. EG Yugoslavian Star Wars posters are very different.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Permabear wrote: »

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People risk their lives in order to flee lots of Latin American countries, not just Cuba and Venezuela. Look at all the people fleeing Central America. Or the 5 million Colombians who escaped to Venezuela not so long ago.

I'm not defending Cuba by the way, just pointing out that they aren't even the only country in the region that people are fleeing.

Tom Mann Centuria

Wibbs wrote: »

Well... As an aside... Far more the Soviets. The Commies had the better art by a long shot. They looked to some futurist utopia and their art reflected that. Nazi art was always harking back to some "golden age", it was anodyne and bland. Same for architecture, it was neoclassical only bigger. In film they had some good artists, but that's because it was a new media, so they couldn't really shoot film in an 18th century romantic style(though they often tried). One exception was Fascist Italy. Being Italians they drink in design and art with their mother's milk liked design and new design and art with it. Whereas the German's were busily emptying museums of modern art and often burning it, the Italians were sponsoring it and modernist architecture. Which didn't endear them to old Adolf at all.

Cubans produce some very cool art and have for a long time. Actually a cheap way to get into it are their film posters. They won't use original film posters for foreign films, preferring to let their local artists and printers ready up their own take. Which is usually far more "arty" than anything Hollywood rattles out these days. Silk screen printed too. It was similar in the former Soviet Bloc. EG Yugoslavian Star Wars posters are very different.

I like some of the early Soviet propaganda posters, quality stuff.

Art wise I'm a big fan of social realism, so love the Socialist Realism style, but also Edward Hopper, who's views politically would be miles from mine (and the Soviets!).

Oh God, think I'm going to turn into a stamp collector, there's some excellent Hopper stamps.

https://www.google.ie/search?q=Edward+hopper+stamps&prmd=inv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjy6KGjueTWAhXC1hoKHWZ0BJYQ_AUIESgB&biw=360&bih=512

Wibbs

markodaly wrote: »

Around 20% of Cubans left Cuba when Castro came to power. Why?

Well the majority of them would have been supporters of the old American by proxy regime, so would have been unhealthy to stick around. Plus they had the wherewithal to leave at the time, so were of the richer classes. Again not so healthy to stick around.

TBH I can understand why the Cubans revolted. The ordinary Cuban had been screwed over for a long time and at the time America and American money was doing the screwing(as was also the case in much of South America too). My dad had visited Cuba as part of his job for a couple of weeks a few years before the revolution and got the strong feeling that it was a powder keg waiting to kick off(and signalled that back to the management in the company he worked for). He was treated with a usually polite but obvious suspicion by locals, until he put the talk on some(as was his thing) and they realised he wasn't an American and the attitudes changed accordingly. He said the attitude change was like night and day. They didn't get all political or anything, just got far more honest and friendly. That so many Hispanic nations and people look at America with some suspicion didn't fall out of the sky. They had good reasons to be suspicious. Just like the Iranians before them.

The problem with Cuba among others is they threw out one bunch of muppets in favour of a new bunch who turned out to be muppets. One could argue Ireland did something similar, when we threw out London and brought in the Vatican. Hell, look at those Americans who considered their current political landscape and genuinely felt that it was out of touch with their lives so they voted in Trump. Be careful of the muppets you wish for seems to be the thing. Alternatives in politics rarely are and extreme alternatives are almost always a bad thing. Cuba, from the frying pan into the fire.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

It's hard to blame people in any Latin American country for revolting. The enormous wealth disparity and entrenched classism here is utterly disgusting and I'm sure it was even worse in past decades.

Sadly, the left wing regimes that have come to power haven't helped much.

dav3

http://www.irishstamps.ie/shop/p-1805-50th-anniversary-of-the-death-of-che-guevara-fdc.aspx

Sold out again!

Who would have thought all this "outrage" would be so good for business.

Junkyard Tom

It'd have been interesting to see how Cuba would have fared if the US hadn't been waging economic warfare against it for decades.

Carry

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

It's interesting the variety of of stamps you get with his image.

Cool stamps. I still think the Irish one is simply the best: iconic pop cultural imagery with Irish connection. I hope my set will arrive tomorrow.

For my 15th birthday I've got the Diary of Che Guevara from my Dad (he was like that...). I couldn't relate to the fight as such at this age, but it was the start of my awareness of injustice and exploitation in other countries I've never heard of before.

For that Che has a special place in my political development, no matter how his struggle unfoiled. And exactly for that I cherish this image because it symbolises a beginning of thinking about the world for myself.

It has nothing to do with gloryfying the effects of Marxism or the circumstances of Cuba today.

Though if any of the posters would make the effort to read Marx's Capital they would find that his theory is still brilliant and valid. Did anyone of you read it actually?
And before you ask, I did, two semesters at Uni exclusively.

Wibbs

dav3 wrote: »

Sold out again!

Who would have thought all this "outrage" would be so good for business.

Indeed and surely that is enough to gladden the heart of every committed capitalist? I mean the Market™ - all praise be to the Market™ - has decided, right?

Tom Mann Centuria

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed and surely that is enough to gladden the heart of every committed capitalist? I mean the Market™ - all praise be to the Market™ - has decided, right?

My rampant inner capitalist was hoping they'd be pulled, and my fdc would skyrocket in value, to maybe 2.50 sell sell sell!

Capt'n Midnight

Some tourists from Florida are going to have problems with these stamps.


"you're spitting on the wrong side" :pac:

Tom Mann Centuria

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Some tourists from Florida are going to have problems with these stamps.


"you're spitting on the wrong side" :pac:

I was pleading with the missus to post our Christmas card to her sister and former Marine, gun toting Trump supporter husband in Tennessee but alas I was out voted 1 vote to 1

Junkyard Tom

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed and surely that is enough to gladden the heart of every committed capitalist? I mean the Market™ - all praise be to the Market™ - has decided, right?

An Post is a state-owned, nasty, freedom suppressing, socialist organisation.

Allinall

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

An Post is a state-owned, nasty, freedom suppressing, socialist organisation.

I thought they delivered letters and parcels.

Ipso

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It'd have been interesting to see how Cuba would have fared if the US hadn't been waging economic warfare against it for decades.

What economic warfare? Shouldn't glorious Marxism have been able to withstand some sanctions?

dav3

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed and surely that is enough to gladden the heart of every committed capitalist? I mean the Market™ - all praise be to the Market™ - has decided, right?

Unfortunately not, I'm starting to doubt some people's commitment.

mrcheez

How many stamps can you fit in the folder given by An Post (without folding them)?

12 or 16?

Junkyard Tom

Ipso wrote: »

What economic warfare?

Stop feigning ignorance. This economic warfare.

Shouldn't glorious Marxism have been able to withstand some sanctions?

As far as I know if any country trades with Cuba it goes into a sort of quarantine whereby it can't trade with the US for a couple of hundred days so this is not US economic warfare so much as as a war-like blockade of Cuba from trading with any country that the US trades with.