Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo/sexual misconduct scandals

jill_valentine

Sad Professor wrote: »

What's the source for this? Whedon was hired to re-write the dialogue, which he did extensively. If he had added to the plot, creating an entire act as you suggest, he would not have been denied credit.

And does everyone really hate the third act of Speed?

Fair question - it was an "Everybody knows..." thing back in ye olden nerd days, but I can't find anything to back it up now so I recant until/unless I can.

Yeah the last act is just... The movie ended 20 minutes ago. Before Keanu mistook Sanda Bullock's silhouette for Dennis Hopper or saved the day with a whole flying train manouevre. It just feels very out of step with the rest of the movie, and don't get me wrong - I love Speed.

The White Wolf

pixelburp wrote: »

I have always thought it funny that for all his plaudits, Whedon's CV isn't actually bursting with hits either - purely in terms of successful output. Buffy was a sensation at the second attempt but as you say Jill, everything else was a noted failure. And I'm certainly not going to forget how he wrote Alien Ressurection any time soon (even if it was his first script IIRC).

In fact, I'd go one further and say, at the risk of coming across troll'y, or angling for a Hot Take: Firefly was overrated. Minus the snarky dialogue - which I'd argue is Whedons biggest, lasting and most prominent contribution to pop-culture - it was very a formulaic show, dressed up in so much Western garb raided from the costume department, it strained credulity at times.

Nor was Whedon's pivot to directing that spectacular either; so not like this tyranny, apparently justified in the eyes of some, yielded great results: while a noteworthy movie for what it represented in the genre, The Avengers looked like a bland TV movie, and he never looked to be growing his craft either. Justice League was as bland and boring-looking as that other film. For comparison, I watched The Trial of the Chicago 7 recently and it was interesting to see how another writer-cum-director, Aaron Sorkin, had clearly built his craft from the prior feature he helmed.

This is coming off a little "I always knew he was rubbish", but I as someone who never really got into Buffy in the first place, I never quite "got" the adoration Whedon received either. And given recent revelations, his status as this creator of empowered female characters now comes across a little awkward.

Didn't know Alien Resurrection was his first script.....he was quick to throw that film under the bus because of how his script was executed. It makes me wonder now was he just bullsh1tting.

Whedon's greatest strength was the rapport he could build between characters on the page and also in front of the screen. Buffy was the beginning of that and Avengers was the crescendo; none of it was necessarily related to his ability as a writer. But once the chummy camaraderie schtick wears off all you're left with was painfully repetitive writing and cliched characters.

As you alluded to this is Whedon's legacy on screen - I tried to watch The Originals recently and it was a box ticking exercise in the type of characters Whedon would write. In fact I think the CW and half of Netflix's original content owe Whedon a living for life. :pac:

santana75

I'd agree that theres no need to be an asshole when you're the boss. I'm reluctant to call for Josh Whedon's head yet though, not until more details emerge. Like the stuff Michelle trachtenberg said about a rule onset where she was not to be left alone with JW......that sounds very ominous. But it could mean anything really, he might've shouted at her or been aggressive towards her or it might have some sort of sexual predator connotations. Who knows, only those who were on the set at that time. Overall I'm glad things are coming out in the wash. If someone is a dickhead then they should be called out and suffer whatever consequences, you reap what you sow ultimately and if you're a wicked son of a bitch then you'll get yours eventually.

CastorTroy

Whedon said only 2 lines from his original script made it to the X-Men film - the Toad line and the "You're a d!ck". He blames Halle for the droll delivery for Toad, as he described it.
Of series I watched, Veronica Mars is probably the closest I've heard to Whedon dialogue, though I'm sure there are others

Decuc500

Whedon's Much Ado About Nothing is a wonderful movie. Script, direction, performances...its a total blast and not possibly the work of a 'hack'!

S.M.B.

I kind of get how those who were never big Whedon fans can look at his career to date and feel somewhat vindicated. At the same time, through a combination of talent and timing, the man has had a massive impact on pop culture over the last 20 years.

I'm a big BtVS fan and he's obviously a big part of that shows success, but he also surrounded himself with a great team of writers too.

As far as these allegations go, to me there's a spectrum of severity with Harvey Weinstein and others on one end and everyday sh*tty managers taking advantage of their power within the workplace on the other end. Based on what I've heard over the years Joss is certainly nowhere near that top level, time to spend some time behind bars tier but he's also not completely down at the other end either.

pixelburp

The White Wolf wrote: »

Didn't know Alien Resurrection was his first script.....he was quick to throw that film under the bus because of how his script was executed. It makes me wonder now was he just bullsh1tting.

Whedon's greatest strength was the rapport he could build between characters on the page and also in front of the screen. Buffy was the beginning of that and Avengers was the crescendo; none of it was necessarily related to his ability as a writer. But once the chummy camaraderie schtick wears off all you're left with was painfully repetitive writing and cliched characters.

As you alluded to this is Whedon's legacy on screen - I tried to watch The Originals recently and it was a box ticking exercise in the type of characters Whedon would write. In fact I think the CW and half of Netflix's original content owe Whedon a living for life. :pac:

Very true on the last point: his style is everywhere, and it can make some dramas unwatchable by dint of its leads all acting like the Chandler, so to speak. Ultimately what Whedon gave to Western pop-culture was this idea that characters could have a degree of self-awareness to their situation, that rapport you mention where a cast riff off each other. And credit where it's due, when it worked it absolutely crackled: as much as I denigrated Firefly, when the dialogue was on fire, the episodes flew by.

Maybe the fairest assessment of Whedon the writer is to say he's the trailblazer; the Edgar Rice Burroughs of pop-culture writing. He had one trick, and it blew the doors open about how serialised TV could be, essentially giving us the landscape we occupy now. But to go back and watch (listen?) his material now, it feels so derivative or basic in places. Though I'm trying to think of a writer who might have overtaken his mantle.

pixelburp

Sad Professor wrote: »

What's the source for this? Whedon was hired to re-write the dialogue, which he did extensively. If he had added to the plot, creating an entire act as you suggest, he would not have been denied credit.

And does everyone really hate the third act of Speed?

The third act of Speed smelt so badly of a script that simply ran out of road (no pun intended), but had some mandate to stick in a Big Explosive Climax. The premise meant the hero and villain had no natural way to face off against each other; so all that brilliantly bottled tension and stakes on the bus disappeared in favour of a generic action set-piece that was ... I mean it was OK, but it jarred like hell against all that came before.

IAMAMORON

This needs a new thread in fairness.

I have not heard any whispers of sexual misconduct concerning Joss Whedon... yet here he in the same stone throwing pit as Harvey Weinstein.. because maybe he lost his rag the odd time on set?

Sakana

CastorTroy wrote: »

Whedon said only 2 lines from his original script made it to the X-Men film - the Toad line and the "You're a d!ck". He blames Halle for the droll delivery for Toad, as he described it.
Of series I watched, Veronica Mars is probably the closest I've heard to Whedon dialogue, though I'm sure there are others

Try THE MIDDLEMAN, an excellent show in its own right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Middleman_(TV_series)

Sakana

IAMAMORON wrote: »

This needs a new thread in fairness.

I have not heard any whispers of sexual misconduct concerning Joss Whedon... yet here he in the same stone throwing pit as Harvey Weinstein.. because maybe he lost his rag the odd time on set?

They're hinting at it with saying he wasn't allowed in a room on his own with Michelle Trachtenberg.

And if it wasn't a sexual misconduct issue, that's a very ugly thing for them to just let hanging out in the wind.

FunLover18

IAMAMORON wrote: »

This needs a new thread in fairness.

I have not heard any whispers of sexual misconduct concerning Joss Whedon... yet here he in the same stone throwing pit as Harvey Weinstein.. because maybe he lost his rag the odd time on set?

Victim blaming again I see, people aren't tough enough, they need to man up, etc. This attitude is toxic and only enables people like Whedon to get away with bullying. What Carpenter describes in her statement is not the odd time but a period of prolonged, targeted abuse and harassment. She was pregnant ffs.

He's not an abuser on the same scale of Weinstein but he is an abuser and this attitude of it's Hollywood it is what it is is the same attitude that let Weinstein get away with his ****. The only people who lose in this situation is Whedon and people like him.

IAMAMORON

FunLover18 wrote: »

Victim blaming again I see, people aren't tough enough, they need to man up, etc. This attitude is toxic and only enables people like Whedon to get away with bullying. What Carpenter describes in her statement is not the odd time but a period of prolonged, targeted abuse and harassment. She was pregnant ffs.

He's not an abuser on the same scale of Weinstein but he is an abuser and this attitude of it's Hollywood it is what it is is the same attitude that let Weinstein get away with his ****. The only people who lose in this situation is Whedon and people like him.

How long was she pregnant for?

Potatoeman

I remember hearing about this at the time (Whedon). A friend told me about it, think she was on a mailing list and it was going around even back then.

IAMAMORON

Potatoeman wrote: »

I remember hearing about this at the time (Whedon). A friend told me about it, think she was on a mailing list and it was going around even back then.

Go on, what was he doing exactly?

jill_valentine

FunLover18 wrote: »

Victim blaming again I see, people aren't tough enough, they need to man up, etc. This attitude is toxic and only enables people like Whedon to get away with bullying. What Carpenter describes in her statement is not the odd time but a period of prolonged, targeted abuse and harassment. She was pregnant ffs.

He's not an abuser on the same scale of Weinstein but he is an abuser and this attitude of it's Hollywood it is what it is is the same attitude that let Weinstein get away with his ****. The only people who lose in this situation is Whedon and people like him.

Charisma Carpenter, Ray Fisher, Michelle Trachtenberg, James Marsters, and if I'm not mistaken, Amber Benson have all made direct claims of wrongdoing.

Eliza Dushku - who was molested and badly injured as a kid during one shoot and more recently harrassed, on tape, on another to the tune of a massive settlement - voiced support, as did Sarah Michelle Gellar and J August Richards. Anthony Stewart Head also did, with a disclaimer he was unaware of what was happening at the time. David Boreanaz voiced general good wishes and she thanked him for his private support as well.

Notably quiet afaik, Alyson Hannigan and Alexis Denisof, who it's worth mentioning are the only Buffy alumni who still work with him now and then.

IAMAMORON

Sakana wrote: »

They're hinting at it with saying he wasn't allowed in a room on his own with Michelle Trachtenberg.

And if it wasn't a sexual misconduct issue, that's a very ugly thing for them to just let hanging out in the wind.

Who exactly are " they " and "them".. ?

Are you referring to Michelle Trachtenberg .. or is it something being published by someone who knew her on Twitter? It is a very relevant question to ask.

Has Trachtenberg come out and said he was not allowed in her dressing room? To follow up on that, what is the context of such a truth? An actors' dressing room or private area may be specifically just that.. private... for a multitude of reasons? Busy sets can be hectic, especially after 15 straight hours and 28 takes. If you are up again at half 4 dam right you want a private place to kip for 3 hours.

pixelburp

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Who exactly are " they " and "them".. ?

Are you referring to Michelle Trachtenberg .. or is it something being published by someone who knew her on Twitter? It is a very relevant question to ask.

Has Trachtenberg come out and said he was not allowed in her dressing room? To follow up on that, what is the context of such a truth? An actors' dressing room or private area may be specifically just that.. private... for a multitude of reasons? Busy sets can be hectic, especially after 15 straight hours and 28 takes. If you are up again at half 4 dam right you want a private place to kip for 3 hours.

Yes she has, and would have taken 30 seconds of googling her name to confirm this;

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/michelle-trachtenberg-says-joss-whedon-was-not-allowed-to-be-alone-with-her-on-buffy

michelletrachtenberg
Verified
Thank you @sarahmgellar for saying this. I am brave enough now as a 35 year old woman....To repost this. Because. This must. Be known. As a teenager. With his not appropriate behavior....very. Not. Appropriate. So now. People know. What Joss. Did.
The last. Comment I will make on this. Was. There was a rule. Saying. He's not allowed in a room alone with Michelle again.

So can we just dispense with this "oh, maybe she just wanted somewhere to sleep" goalpost shift? I'm not immediately presuming some sexual context TBH, but then I'm not trying to pull mental gymnastics either to hand-wave away increasingly evidence that Whedon was a shít. Though given you seem to be adopting a "can't make an omelette..." excuse for a hostile workplace, I doubt there's going to be much middle ground found here either.

Potatoeman

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Go on, what was he doing exactly?

Just being an asshole to her. Pretty much what she said. Mad at her for getting pregnant during filming etc. Nothing sexual.

IAMAMORON

As a teenager you can be sure he was not allowed in her private room... that rule may well have been in place to protect everyone?

I am happy to be wrong here, but all I am seeing is a few Tweets floating around with an air of accusation.

I want to know,

What was his inappropriate behaviour? What is he accused of doing exactly? Are we dealing with a verified sex pest here ... or is it a case of him being a nasty person to work for? There is a difference in fairness...

FunLover18

IAMAMORON wrote: »

As a teenager you can be sure he was not allowed in her private room... that rule may well have been in place to protect everyone?

I am happy to be wrong here, but all I am seeing is a few Tweets floating around with an air of accusation.

I want to know,

What was his inappropriate behaviour? What is he accused of doing exactly? Are we dealing with a verified sex pest here ... or is it a case of him being a nasty person to work for? There is a difference in fairness...

An air of accusation? Carpenter's statement is pretty clear and she lays out what he did and gives examples of his cruel and manipulative behaviour. If it was a general rule that males weren't allowed in a room alone with Trachtenberg, why would she bring it up and single him out?

I don't know if you're bringing up the lack of sexual misconduct in relation the Whedon's relevance to this thread or if you genuinely think bullying in the workplace is ok so long as it doesn't cross that line.

mikhail

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What was his inappropriate behaviour? What is he accused of doing exactly? Are we dealing with a verified sex pest here ... or is it a case of him being a nasty person to work for? There is a difference in fairness...

She hasn't expanded on the quote pixelburp mentioned. It's a little unfortunate, because, as you say, there's a big difference between some of the possibilities. In any case, there's no use speculating in a vacuum.

People are complex, and Whedon seemingly being a bit of a bully and a cheat (the latter of which he's copped to), have to sit with a career that really did create good roles for women in an industry that was awful for that, or the guy who made a self-funded TV movie and paid the cast scale and profit-shares during the writers' strike. Or the guy who made a show with lines like this, one of my personal favourites:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9ZgnVb5Q7I

And that's not much different from mostly liking the work of the guy who wrote both Toy Story and Alien: Resurrection.

There was a time I refused to distinguish between a person and his work: I have still never paid to see a movie by Polanski (a creep and a talent of an entirely different magnitude to Whedon). Over time, I've come to accept that I can't keep up with the scale of awfulness of Hollywood. Those assholes aren't worth my energy.

IAMAMORON

FunLover18 wrote: »

Carpenter's statement is pretty clear and she lays out what he did and gives examples of his cruel and manipulative behaviour.

What examples exactly? All I am reading is accusations that he was manipulative towards her and other crew members. How? What was the context?

FunLover18 wrote: »

If it was a general rule that males weren't allowed in a room alone with Trachtenberg, why would she bring it up and single him out?

The only context I am seeing here is that they are both backing up Ray Fisher in his tangible issue. They are sending out Tweets which are online insinuations against Whedon - they might well be true - but I think it is a bit rich having online histrionics over the alleged bad behaviour of a previous boss. I think throwing in a mild innuendo about her being a teenager and her private room, whilst being extremely serious, should also be backed up and verified with some sort of serious reality? Did he fiddle with her, was he making untoward advances, has she filed a report to the Police?

FunLover18 wrote: »

I don't know if you're bringing up the lack of sexual misconduct in relation the Whedon's relevance to this thread or if you genuinely think bullying in the workplace is ok so long as it doesn't cross that line.

I am not judge and jury on the behaviour of anyone, but there is a massive difference between workplace bullying and sexual misconduct, particularly where everyone has decided to keep stumm for 17 odd years?

And admittedly yes, rightly or wrongly I do have a bias against well paid and remunerated moviestars jumping on a bandwagon culture of anti bullying sentiment 20 years too late? I am not denying that bullying existed , but I think mud sticks to the wall even better 20 years down the line. It is not acceptable, but may well have been sufferable 20 years ago... I also find it intriguing that his current colleagues are happy to say nothing.

There is a difference between not condoning a bully and wanting to hear some tangible truth behind the vague online accusations of a few snowflakes who can't get a job anymore...

pixelburp

mikhail wrote: »

She hasn't expanded on the quote pixelburp mentioned. It's a little unfortunate, because, as you say, there's a big difference between some of the possibilities. In any case, there's no use speculating in a vacuum.

There was a time I refused to distinguish between a person and his work: I have still never paid to see a movie by Polanski (a creep and a talent of an entirely different magnitude to Whedon). Over time, I've come to accept that I can't keep up with the scale of awfulness of Hollywood. Those assholes aren't worth my energy.

Hollywood is a rotten industry, and you don't even have to read that far past its birth to find all the worst aspects of humanity, industrialised and made acceptable because "... that's Hollywood" and it's OK if the final film is lauded enough. As you say, Polanski is a standout here, but as I've mentioned before there is a small tinge of regret that something as timeless as The Shining is tainted by the knowledge Kubrick bullied Shelly Duvall to the point of hair loss.

Worth remembering that it has often taken actual deaths to change the needle in terms of Hollywood's behaviour; this is not a moral industry by any stretch. For instance, speaking of Trachtenberg's experience: they only brought in child labour laws over film shoots because 2 kids died on the set of the Twilight Zone movie, during a helicopter stunt (shot at night IIRC) went wrong (Am open to correction here, but I'm fairly sure they brought in laws saying kids could only work X number of hours per day, and other caveats)

FunLover18 wrote: »

An air of accusation? Carpenter's statement is pretty clear and she lays out what he did and gives examples of his cruel and manipulative behaviour. If it was a general rule that males weren't allowed in a room alone with Trachtenberg, why would she bring it up and single him out?

I don't know if you're bringing up the lack of sexual misconduct in relation the Whedon's relevance to this thread or if you genuinely think bullying in the workplace is ok so long as it doesn't cross that line.

The user has made it plain enough that they don't consider Workplace Bullying a real Thing, so while I'd share scepticism over Trachtenberg's experience being sexual in nature, it's also plain as day Whedon got away with bullying and abuse 'cos ... "that's Hollywood". My own personal read is that Whedon verbally abused a child, and others tried to at least give her some peace in banning Whedon from her room.

Potatoeman

pixelburp wrote: »

Hollywood is a rotten industry, and you don't even have to read that far past its birth to find all the worst aspects of humanity, industrialised and made acceptable because "... that's Hollywood" and it's OK if the final film is lauded enough. As you say, Polanski is a standout here, but as I've mentioned before there is a small tinge of regret that something as timeless as The Shining is tainted by the knowledge Kubrick bullied Shelly Duvall to the point of hair loss.
.

The Shining does not hold up. I went to see it at a Halloween screening a few years ago and the audience was in stitches. Bad over the top acting, odd scenes that seemed out of place then the n word thrown in that seemed completely inappropriate. At the time it was the scariest horror movie but now it’s just a joke. If this is at the top of your best horror movies of all time, watch it again.

jill_valentine

mikhail wrote: »

People are complex, and Whedon seemingly being a bit of a bully and a cheat (the latter of which he's copped to)

Whedon's ex wife didn't simply say he cheated.

She said he used his credentials as a feminist creative as a cover for all the **** he was doing on his sets, in line with your qualification he created good roles for women.

And he didn't simply cop to it. He told her -

“When I was running ‘Buffy,’ I was surrounded by beautiful, needy, aggressive young women. It felt like I had a disease, like something from a Greek myth. Suddenly I am a powerful producer and the world is laid out at my feet and I can’t touch it.” But he did touch it.

He said he understood, “I would have to lie — or conceal some part of the truth — for the rest of my life,” but he did it anyway, hoping that first affair, “would be ENOUGH, that THEN we could move on and outlast it.”

Joss admitted that for the next decade and a half, he hid multiple affairs and a number of inappropriate emotional ones that he had with his actresses, co-workers, fans and friends, while he stayed married to me.

Maybe all that stuff felt true to him, but that characterisation, "Needy aggressive young women" screams bull**** from the rooftops.

Most of the female cast of Buffy were in their literal teens when they started on the show - Dushku and Trachtenberg were both minors, in fact, and Carpenter was a notable exception. We're a few steps beyond "cheating" when you're their boss and they've got homework tutors on set.

Was whatever he did on set a crime, probably not, is it enough to make him a greasy arsehole, I feel quite comfortable saying it is.

That doesn't make something like The Body any less of a masterpiece; but it doesn't make The Body worth believing the rest was some necessary price to pay for it. The idea that somebody has to act like a gimp in the process of making art that good is silly when it feels far more likely, as implied above, that some gimps realise they can use their art as a license for misbehaviour and go to town with it.

Sakana

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Who exactly are " they " and "them".. ?

Are you referring to Michelle Trachtenberg .. or is it something being published by someone who knew her on Twitter? It is a very relevant question to ask.

Has Trachtenberg come out and said he was not allowed in her dressing room? To follow up on that, what is the context of such a truth? An actors' dressing room or private area may be specifically just that.. private... for a multitude of reasons? Busy sets can be hectic, especially after 15 straight hours and 28 takes. If you are up again at half 4 dam right you want a private place to kip for 3 hours.

This was a post on Instagram a week ago:

michelletrachtenberg
Verified
Thank you @sarahmgellar for saying this. I am brave enough now as a 35 year old woman....To repost this. Because. This must. Be known. As a teenager. With his not appropriate behavior....very. Not. Appropriate. So now. People know. What Joss. Did.
The last. Comment I will make on this. Was. There was a rule. Saying. He's not allowed in a room alone with Michelle again.

Interesting syntax aside, that more than hints at something much darker than bullying a grown adult.

If it was because of sexual advances on her, a minor at the time, it should be clarified, I think.

FunLover18

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What examples exactly? All I am reading is accusations that he was manipulative towards her and other crew members. How? What was the context?

I could be wrong but my reading is that he tried to influence her decision on whether to go through with the pregnancy, he gave her unnecessary grief over a tattoo, and mocked her weight. Now of course there could be mitigating context but if she still feels aggrieved and upset 17 years later and if her colleagues are coming out in support, I don't think that should dismissed off hand

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The only context I am seeing here is that they are both backing up Ray Fisher in his tangible issue. They are sending out Tweets which are online insinuations against Whedon - they might well be true - but I think it is a bit rich having online histrionics over the alleged bad behaviour of a previous boss. I think throwing in a mild innuendo about her being a teenager and her private room, whilst being extremely serious, should also be backed up and verified with some sort of serious reality? Did he fiddle with her, was he making untoward advances, has she filed a report to the Police?

I don't know who you're accusing of having online histrionics, most people here just seem agree that he's probably a dick and by the looks of it a bully, you're the one twisting yourself into contortions and claiming everyone should just get over it because it was so long ago. Bullying can have a massive impact on people regardless of how old they are but according to you it's fine if it's in service of art.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I am not judge and jury on the behaviour of anyone, but there is a massive difference between workplace bullying and sexual misconduct, particularly where everyone has decided to keep stumm for 17 odd years?

So because people were afraid to speak up we should assume it wasn't that bad? There's clearly a culture in Hollywood that allows this kind of behaviour and allows certain people to do it. Regardless of whether Whedon committed sexual misconduct the MeToo movement has clearly played a role on giving people the confidence to speak up about all forms of abuse, not just sexual. It's the same industry and old fashioned attitudes that are allowing this behaviour.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

And admittedly yes, rightly or wrongly I do have a bias against well paid and remunerated moviestars jumping on a bandwagon culture of anti bullying sentiment 20 years too late? I am not denying that bullying existed , but I think mud sticks to the wall even better 20 years down the line. It is not acceptable, but may well have been sufferable 20 years ago... I also find it intriguing that his current colleagues are happy to say nothing.

Weird that you don't extend the same bias to well paid and remunerated writers/directors who had power and were in the position to bully the people below them. Again you keep going back to how long ago it was, to me that only shows how entrenched this culture is and how far we still have to go. Also too late for what? Yes Whedon has already done the damage but he can still face consequences and he is and more importantly he can still learn to be better, so I think he will, doubtful but maybe there will be some introspection on his part. It's not too late for the people who have been saved having to work with him and it gives more people confidence to speak out against this kind of treatment in future and hopefully sooner rather than later.

IAMAMORON wrote: »

There is a difference between not condoning a bully and wanting to hear some tangible truth behind the vague online accusations of a few snowflakes who can't get a job anymore...

It's hard to for me to believe you don't condone bullying when you label those who speak about their experiences "snowflakes".

IAMAMORON

I am not condoning bullying, don't get that wrong.

But I just think that there is more at play here than meets the eye.

To re-iterate , quite fully , yes, I do have an issue with snowflakes throwing mud at former bosses 20 years down the line. It is obvious that their bridges have been burnt and I feel there is something inappropriate and malicious about launching online hate campaigns... we have no notion who or what is really behind these allegations?

For all we know it is a rival screenwriter or even a rival studio trying to tarnish his name and rep in the middle some sort of contract negotiation or other nuance that could be relevant at this time.

If we are all happy to agree that Hollywood is a cesspit from the top down... then we should all be happy to agree that it is capable of playing dirty games at an industry level?

Cancel culture has become a potent weapon in modern celeb politics , I just wonder how much of it is at play here.... some of these accusations are fairly soft imo .. and worth the scrutiny?

Apart from that I could care less.... about any of them ....but I do like the truth.

johnny_ultimate

IAMAMORON wrote: »

For all we know it is a rival screenwriter or even a rival studio trying to tarnish his name and rep in the middle some sort of contract negotiation or other nuance that could be relevant at this time.

'For all we know' is doing some very heavy lifting here for a ludicrous suggestion you've just totally manufactured out of thin air.