Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018

Ol' Donie

Have you defeated your own argument there?

How ARE Portsmouth & Wigan doing, compared to Arsenal?

Luckily, I've looked at the Man U and Liverpool threads on boards over the past few days, so I know this is where angry over entitled supporters congregate.

So i know that the reaction here compared to the reaction from actual real people is very different.

Ol' Donie

Quazzie wrote: »

With all due respect Donie, you are a fair representative of everything that is wrong with the club at the moment.

You complain about Kroenke, but you yourself are worse. At least he's not claiming to be a fan of the club, and he gets to skim money off the top. What do you get?

It's a fair question, and one I struggle with myself.

Ultimately, I hate Kronke, and I hate the oil ****ers.

So what does that leave me with? The last relic (and I'm aware of what that word implies) of a club that belonged to it's fans, and meant something to people.

And I have my heels dug in so deeply, because once he goes, it'll be a merry go round of mediocrity. Not 3 in 4 FA cups mediocrity, Spurs & Liverpool mediocrity.

And that'll be ****e.

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Have you defeated your own argument there?

How ARE Portsmouth & Wigan doing, compared to Arsenal?

Luckily, I've looked at the Man U and Liverpool threads on boards over the past few days, so I know this is where angry over entitled supporters congregate.

So i know that the reaction here compared to the reaction from actual real people is very different.

You may have defeated your own. You make out the cup is a big competition but my argument is that rubbish clubs like Portsmouth and Wigan have won it in the last decade.

Your getting all defensive now when you are getting tangled up in your own argument. Can you not just examine all the crushing hammerings Arsenal have been given? All the mental collapses? and all the idiotic 'everyone but my fault' excuses that Wenger has given and just accept, i mean just be completely honest with yourself... that this man is a busted flush and its not a recent thing.

Look at the way we defend. He sets us up to be slaughtered and never learns. He is a total sham. Before 2014 we won one trophy in 9 years. he should have been gone long before that. We are a club though that are obsessed with financial results and not football results and Le Fraud is an ideal yes man for the suits.

Skylinehead

Soups123 wrote: »

That's a harsh assessment, the man has won league titles in 3 of the major European leagues along with 3 CL trophies, that's phenomenal.

We've not won one CL, I'd take that over an FA Cup

Did you read my post? I said he's a CL manager. So half of your post is redundant already.

Winning the league with that Bayern team is not an achievement. And it all went horribly, horribly wrong this season - the Bayern players hated him, he half arsed the training, and that training was completely outdated, so they say. I gave him credit for the Chelsea win, where am I being harsh? Point out where I'm wrong.

I'd take a CL too, I didn't say I wanted Wenger to stay. All I said is I don't want Ancelotti, he's past it. Please read my posts.

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You may have defeated your own. You make out the cup is a big competition but my argument is that rubbish clubs like Portsmouth and Wigan have won it in the last decade.

Your getting all defensive now when you are getting tangled up in your own argument. Can you not just examine all the crushing hammerings Arsenal have been given? All the mental collapses? and all the idiotic 'everyone but my fault' excuses that Wenger has given and just accept, i mean just be completely honest with yourself... that this man is a busted flush and its not a recent thing.

Look at the way we defend. He sets us up to be slaughtered and never learns. He is a total sham. Before 2014 we won one trophy in 9 years. he should have been gone long before that. We are a club though that are obsessed with financial results and not football results and Le Fraud is an ideal yes man for the suits.

Right. Not going through this again.

All the nonsense about Kroenke but Kroenke has given Wenger money to buy the following

Ozil 42m
Sanchez 35m
Welbeck 16m
Chambers 15m
Cech 10m
Xhaka 33m
Mustafi 35m
Lacazette 55m

You can bullshít all you like about city spending more but all those players mentioned are top internationals. No excuses. Time up for Wenger.

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Right. Not going through this again.

I accept your surrender

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All the nonsense about Kroenke but Kroenke has given Wenger money to buy the following

Ozil 42m
Sanchez 35m
Welbeck 16m
Chambers 15m
Cech 10m
Xhaka 33m
Mustafi 35m
Lacazette 55m

You can bullshít all you like about city spending more but all those players mentioned are top internationals. No excuses. Time up for Wenger.

Do me a favour.

Give us a list of City's signings in that time. Not Chelsea, United or The Pool. Just City.

Thanks.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Did you read my post? I said he's a CL manager. So half of your post is redundant already.

Winning the league with that Bayern team is not an achievement. And it all went horribly, horribly wrong this season - the Bayern players hated him, he half arsed the training, and that training was completely outdated, so they say. I gave him credit for the Chelsea win, where am I being harsh? Point out where I'm wrong.

I'd take a CL too, I didn't say I wanted Wenger to stay. All I said is I don't want Ancelotti, he's past it. Please read my posts.

And that's fair enough but if Ancellotti is considered past it then our man is completely and utterly past it.

Soups123

Skylinehead wrote: »

Did you read my post? I said he's a CL manager. So half of your post is redundant already.

Winning the league with that Bayern team is not an achievement. And it all went horribly, horribly wrong this season - the Bayern players hated him, he half arsed the training, and that training was completely outdated, so they say. I gave him credit for the Chelsea win, where am I being harsh? Point out where I'm wrong.

I'd take a CL too, I didn't say I wanted Wenger to stay. All I said is I don't want Ancelotti, he's past it. Please read my posts.

No need for the 'Please read my post' smartness

I was merely giving my opinion that your underplaying his achievements. He's won as many leagues as he has CL and domestic cups too so I wouldn't agree he's a CL manager, his two most recent successes were league titles.

Full moon in here tonight

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I accept your surrender

If you think you've convinced me of anything...

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Do me a favour.

Give us a list of City's signings in that time. Not Chelsea, United or The Pool. Just City.

Thanks.

What would be the point of that? Was the gulf in spend a factor when we beat City in the cup semi last year??? Donie Donie Donie..... Just be the better man here and hold your hand up and admit you are flogging a very dead horse

Soups123

Soups123 wrote: »

No need for the 'Please read my post' smartness

I was merely giving my opinion that your underplaying his achievements. He's won as many leagues as he has CL and domestic cups too so I wouldn't agree he's a CL manager, his two most recent successes were league titles.

Full moon in here tonight

The poor old AKB's are being crushed under the weight of Wengers mediocrity and are under enormous strain.

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What would be the point of that? Was the gulf in spend a factor when we beat City in the cup semi last year??? Donie Donie Donie..... Just be the better man here and hold your hand up and admit you are flogging a very dead horse

No, no, go on, just indulge me.

You just pointed out how much we've spent - no excuses - so go on.

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The poor old AKB's are being crushed under the weight of Wengers mediocrity and are under enormous strain.

It's just weird that the angry echo chamber in here bears no resemblance to the Arsenal fans I speak to in real life.

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

It's just weird that the angry echo chamber in here bears no resemblance to the Arsenal fans I speak to in real life.

Who have you been speaking to? Ty off Arsenal fan tv??

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who have you been speaking to? Ty off Arsenal fan tv??

Go ahead with the City signings. Any time you're ready.

And no, just fans who have some idea about economics. Basic economics.

Soups123

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Go ahead with the City signings. Any time you're ready.

And no, just fans who have some idea about economics. Basic economics.

Our 'owner' has money to spend too but we choose to live in the economic environment that suits him. We don't spend anywhere near the monies we are capable of spending we take a very cautious approach

Ol' Donie

Meanwhile, speaking of podcasts as we kinda were earlier on...

Athletico Mince is amazing. Please listen to the "Gangs of The EPL" bit. The "White Harts", Harry Kane's gang, is the funniest thing ever.

Ol' Donie

Soups123 wrote: »

Our 'owner' has money to spend too but we choose to live in the economic environment that suits him. We don't spend anywhere near the monies we are capable of spending we take a very cautious approach

Yes. I know. So why do we think a change in manager will cause him to start blasting cash? He never, ever will.

Soups123

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Yes. I know. So why do we think a change in manager will cause him to start blasting cash? He never, ever will.

Because Wenger offers himself as a front to the business of the club, a top manager would pile the pressure on as others do. Wenger is part of the let's not spend too much brigade

Ol' Donie

Soups123 wrote: »

Because Wenger offers himself as a front to the business of the club, a top manager would pile the pressure on as others do. Wenger is part of the let's not spend too much brigade

Okay.

Can you give me some examples of when that works?

Genuine question.

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

And that's fair enough but if Ancellotti is considered past it then our man is completely and utterly past it.

Uh yeah, Wenger is past it. Blatantly so. Do you think I don't know that? Wenger needs to go, I'm trying to discuss potential replacements here.

Soups123 wrote: »

No need for the 'Please read my post' smartness

I was merely giving my opinion that your underplaying his achievements. He's won as many leagues as he has CL and domestic cups too so I wouldn't agree he's a CL manager, his two most recent successes were league titles.

Full moon in here tonight

His achievements. In the past. That sounds very.....Wenger. The Chelsea win was 8 years ago now. Milan is as distant in the past as when Wenger was good.

HIs last two major honours weren't league titles, one of them was, with Bayern. And I don't consider that an achievement. Look into what the players thought of the guy. Not good. The other is a CL with Madrid, that's not a league. But I want us to be a league force again. Not happening with Wenger, and personally I don't think Carlo Ancelotti is the man to do it either.

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Go ahead with the City signings. Any time you're ready.

And no, just fans who have some idea about economics. Basic economics.

They contest football not economics. No points given for economics. Ill throw you a few prices of City players so but in your little mind where you believe every bit of búll**** Arsene Wenger says you obviously feel in some warped deluded way it lets him off the hook.

That amazing John Stones cost 50m, the envy of the world :rolleyes:
Sterling who was shíte up to this year cost 50m.
De Bruyne cost 55m (club record signing)
Aguero cost less then Ozil at 38m.
Sane 36m
Jesus 38m

If you want more balance to the argument they have bought flops like Jo, Robinho, Balotelli,

Does it actually occur to you that while their is strong correlation between spending and winning, at the same time spending big money doesn't neccessarily mean winning?

Spending is a poor excuse. We spend 10m a year on a tactically dumb manager

Yep they have blown us out of the water

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Uh yeah, Wenger is past it. Blatantly so. Do you think I don't know that? Wenger needs to go, I'm trying to discuss potential replacements here.



His achievements. In the past. That sounds very.....Wenger. The Chelsea win was 8 years ago now. Milan is as distant in the past as when Wenger was good.

HIs last two major honours weren't league titles, one of them was, with Bayern. And I don't consider that an achievement. Look into what the players thought of the guy. Not good. The other is a CL with Madrid, that's not a league. But I want us to be a league force again. Not happening with Wenger, and personally I don't think Carlo Ancelotti is the man to do it either.

He won a double with Chelsea in 2010.....6 years after Wenger last won a league. 2014 champions league. I agree he isnt the solution but he'd be far better than Wenger even as a stop gap. Wenger is finished.

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

He won a double with Chelsea in 2010.....6 years after Wenger last won a league. 2014 champions league. yep past it but we'll stick with good old fresh Wenger :rolleyes:

How are you able to come to that conclusion given my line literally right above the bit you bolded?

Come off it.

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Just out of interest, what do you put Ranieri's miracle season down to?

Being the best team over 38 games. Something le Fraud hasnt managed since 2004. And yet you are still brazen enough to argue that money is the defining currency in football despite the glaring evidence that suggests otherwise? :rolleyes: Good grief

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

How are you able to come to that conclusion given my line literally right above the bit you bolded?

Come off it.

Ill admit I made a mistake on your post there and tried a ninja edit. You are right. Ancellotti isnt the answer but i would agree that he is a better option then Wenger at this point in time.

Personally though id go for a younger hungrier coach.

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

Ill admit I made a mistake on your post there and tried a ninja edit. You are right. Ancellotti isnt the answer but i would agree that he is a better option then Wenger at this point in time.

Personally though id go for a younger hungrier coach.

Fair.

Better option than Wenger yes, but I want ambition. I want the best. Ancelotti, by all Bayern players accounts, was phoning it in.

"We will have a good training again" - Thomas Muller, after Jupp Heynckes was reinstated after Ancelotti's sacking.

They actually organised secret training sessions of their own, because they felt Ancelotti's weren't anywhere near the required standard. Germans eh :pac:

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They contest football not economics. No points given for economics. Ill throw you a few prices of City players so but in your little mind where you believe every bit of búll**** Arsene Wenger says you obviously feel in some warped deluded way it lets him off the hook.

That amazing John Stones cost 50m, the envy of the world :rolleyes:
Sterling who was shíte up to this year cost 50m.
De Bruyne cost 55m (club record signing)
Aguero cost less then Ozil at 38m.
Sane 36m
Jesus 38m

If you want more balance to the argument they have bought flops like Jo, Robinho, Balotelli,

Does it actually occur to you that while their is strong correlation between spending and winning, at the same time spending big money doesn't neccessarily mean winning?

Spending is a poor excuse. We spend 10m a year on a tactically dumb manager

Yep they have blown us out of the water

Thanks, dear.

I do appreciate the condescending nature of your post, but instead of picking out a few here and there, can you give us a full list of player transfers sinse Welbeck. For the two teams. Since we had a list of the Arsenal ones to prove how bad we are.

Great, thanks.

Skylinehead

Skylinehead wrote: »

Fair.

Better option than Wenger yes, but I want ambition. I want the best. Ancelotti, by all Bayern players accounts, was phoning it in.

"We will have a good training again" - Thomas Muller, after Jupp Heynckes was reinstated after Ancelotti's sacking.

They actually organised secret training sessions of their own, because they felt Ancelotti's weren't anywhere near the required standard. Germans eh :pac:

Id love Simeone although id take Allegri too and why not show balls and ambition and ask them to join rather than this assuming they wont come to us

Jesus, 200 posts since the game started? :P

Beautiful play at times, I'll say again that Wilshere should be the first name on the England teamsheet when fit. But Jesus how did we make it so hard?

Skylinehead

Deleted User wrote: »

Id love Simeone although id take Allegri too and why not show balls and ambition and ask them to join rather than this assuming they wont come to us

Oh absolutely, feelers out to anyone and everyone that we want. Simeone, Jardim, Allegri, whoever.

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Thanks, dear.

I do appreciate the condescending nature of your post, but instead of picking out a few here and there, can you give us a full list of player transfers sinse Welbeck. For the two teams. Since we had a list of the Arsenal ones to prove how bad we are.

Great, thanks.

Even though they are irrelevant and a moot point considering City have only won a Carling cup in 2015 since????? What argument are you trying to make? Because since Arsenal bought Welbeck, Leicester have won the league. City have spent all this money and yet Leicester had enough heart to beat them to a league ??? I try not to be condescending but when people try to flog the unfloggable then you just try and correct them and hope they are man enough to admit they are wrong

Fair enough. In the summer of this year they bought Ederson (35m), Bernardo Silva (45m), Mendy (52m) and Kyle Walker.... Kyle Walker from Spurs who you had a dig at earlier by the way cost 45m.

Here is the season before... They failed to win the league in 2017 despite this gulf you are suggesting.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/manchester-city/transfers/verein/281/saison_id/2016


Before that
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-city/transfers/verein/281/saison_id/2015

And that
https://www.transfermarkt.ie/manchester-city/transfers/verein/281/saison_id/2014


I always remember the ooohing and aawing i done when they signed Wilfried Bony from Swansea in 2014.

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All the nonsense about Kroenke but Kroenke has given Wenger money to buy the following

Ozil 42m
Sanchez 35m
Welbeck 16m
Chambers 15m
Cech 10m
Xhaka 33m
Mustafi 35m
Lacazette 55m

You can bullshít all you like about city spending more but all those players mentioned are top internationals. No excuses. Time up for Wenger.

No, no, just a straight up comparison of spending over the period you cite above.

No excuses for Wenger based on what you're saying.

So go on, not just posting links or whatever.

Thanks.

Arghus

I'm hugely confused Ted.

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

No, no, just a straight up comparison of spending over the period you cite above.

No excuses for Wenger based on what you're saying.

So go on, not just posting links or whatever.

Thanks.

The spending is irrelevant. Its a lazy excuse fed by bluffers like Wenger to gullible fans. Has all the capitulation not somehow managed to convince you at some stage you have been continually sold a pup by a man clinging on to power?

You have been given the sources you asked for despite the irrelevance.... im completely failing to see your argument. Ive argued that Leicester even managed to win the league despite Citys riches and yet you are failing to see the wood from the trees. You are further digging down by putting down Leicesters win as a fluke and yet that achievement of being the best team in the country over 38 games in a single season is dismissed in comparison to winning a knockout competition where you can meet a conference team en route as handily as you can meet a top Premier league team.


I dont know what to do at this stage. You are ignoring all the evidence and pointing at moot facts. Perhaps out of loyalty to Wenger but trust me when i say you owe him nothing. He's been rubbish far longer then he was good now.

Ol' Donie

All I'm asking is a straight up dollar value comparison.

Considering you raised it as a stick with which to beat Arsene.

Any time you're ready.

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

All I'm asking is a straight up dollar value comparison.

Considering you raised it as a stick with which to beat Arsene.

Any time you're ready.

My argument is that Wenger has spent alot of money on top internationals and the team are every bit as rubbish as they were when we had Denilson, Eboue and Bendtner in the side. Just because City spend more it shouldnt mean we capitulate against some ordinary sides. Thats completely irrelevant but keep clinging on to it if it gives you some sense of victory.

Ol' Donie

Any time you're ready.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My argument is that Wenger has spent alot of money on top internationals and the team are every bit as rubbish as they were when we had Denilson, Eboue and Bendtner in the side. Just because City spend more it shouldnt mean we capitulate against some ordinary sides. Thats completely irrelevant but keep clinging on to it if it gives you some sense of victory.

Unfortunately the fact that you class Welbeck and Chambers as top internationals means that I can't take anything you say seriously.

It's funny that you got triggered by an article about a pretty decent achievement by our most successful manager ever. There's no quotes of Wenger saying anything remotely controversial in the article. He didn't go on about making sacrifices, but you still decide to jump all over it.

Just for a day, you can't put your attitude to the side and say something positive about a pretty significant achievement. It's a bit sad.

Basil3

Basil3 wrote: »

Unfortunately the fact that you class Welbeck and Chambers as top internationals means that I can't take anything you say seriously.

It's funny that you got triggered by an article about a pretty decent achievement by our most successful manager ever. There's no quotes of Wenger saying anything remotely controversial in the article. He didn't go on about making sacrifices, but you still decide to jump all over it.

Just for a day, you can't put your attitude to the side and say something positive about a pretty significant achievement. It's a bit sad.

Welbeck has played many times for England ?? Hence an international. Chambers I'll give you but he's a young player. Im referring to Mustafi, Ozil, Cech, Sanchez, Lacazette, Xhaka but I added Chambers to the list to show money has been spent. Of course you had to pick a hole in the argument any way you could

It's an opinion forum. Ignore my posts if you wish but I shouldn't have to dilute anything just to keep certain people happy.

And as for Wengers article there was nothing really worth reading on that one just a typical boring soundbyte but he has on many occasions over the years he hinted at the jobs he turned down. This article on the guardian in particular is painful. Loaded with excuses. Society has more experts and opinions blah blah blah. Never his fault

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2017/dec/28/arsene-wenger-arsenal-sir-alex-ferguson-record

Forgive me for not celebrating a man who has managed a couple of hundred premier league games too many for us and refused to leave. I don't give a fúck for his longevity, I want him gone

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

Any time you're ready.

And anytime you're ready could you please explain the relevance and how is it that Leicester wasn't overawed by Man Citys huge spending when they won the league in 2016?

KaiserGunner

Ol' Donie wrote: »

And I have my heels dug in so deeply, because once he goes, it'll be a merry go round of mediocrity. Not 3 in 4 FA cups mediocrity, Spurs & Liverpool mediocrity.

And that'll be ****e.

See Donie, this is what I ultimately have a problem with. How do you know this would be the case?
With Wenger it is mediocrity when it comes to the Premier League and the Champions League, which a club of Arsenal’s stature should be aiming for. It’s as simple as that.

The 3 FA cups were great, but Wenger should have pushed the team on more by now and built on these successes. He hasn’t though.

tayto lover

If winning an FA Cup is now the height of our ambition as Arsenal fans then we've become a very sad bunch. A feckin' FA Cup ??? C'mon lads.

Ol' Donie

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And anytime you're ready could you please explain the relevance and how is it that Leicester wasn't overawed by Man Citys huge spending when they won the league in 2016?

You know the relevance. You brought up what we've spent.

Any time you're ready.

emmetlego

Get a room you 2!

Ol' Donie

Ol' Donie wrote: »

You know the relevance. You brought up what we've spent.

Any time you're ready.

Ready for what?

I've provided you a list of both Arsenal and City signings and im failing to see where the relevance is considering what City spend has no relevance on some insipid individual Arsenal team displays against some mediocre opposition such as Palace and West Bromwich last year. You continue to ignore these pertinent facts in defence of a manager who has more holes in his tactics than a colander

Wenger has spent well over 200m and my point is we are no better than we were during project youth days. You argue that City spend more fair enough but surely that should not be the sole reason Arsenal mentally collapse and are tactically inept???

Wengers record the last few years is about as defendable as David Brent's record as general manager of Wenham Hogg. Both irresponsible bluffers. One is sadly real and overpaid

greendom

so what do we do with the midfield when Ramsey is fully fit. Who gets dropped?

Jack is back to his best and can't be dropped. I like what Aaron brings to our midfield from an attacking sense but him and Jack would leave the defence too exposed. Its certainly a conundrum.

Arne_Saknussem

Nothing like 3 points to stop the bickering in here