1 in 4 social houses refused. Homeless crisis on arse.

Snotty

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have two friends who are currently looking for homes. One is a masters degree candidate working for one of the big four, the other is working for google. They cant find one. Both have slept on my couch for a night or two, because it was my couch or beneath a bridge.

Stop thinking that the homeless are drug addicts and alcoholics. I have two educated, working friends unable to find a home. Dont let the few scroungers colour your judgement.

I was on a conversation on Facebook and one woman said "there's no housing crisis. Ive had my box room on daft for weeks and no one replied". Turns out she only wanted people 4 nights a week. For 150 a week.

People need houses. If you think there's no housing crisis, try looking for somewhere to live.

I slept in the car one night when I forgot my key, I'm about as homeless as your two muppet friends.
They can find the house they WANT in the AREA they want, they are not homeless.

The resources that exist today could probably help the actual homeless, but because we have a housing crisis also, we have all these wasters (and I don't mean the two above) who jump on the bandwagon to get the house they are "entitled to" quicker

riclad

Are you paying rent,
rents in dublin and other citys, are very high because of the lack of new building since 2008.
We need about 20 thousand house,s built per year.
There,s maybe a few thousand house,s being built.
We need one bed units for single people and more apartments being built .
to say the crisis does not exist because some people turned down
an offer of housing is ridiculous.
Theres 1000,s of people living in hotels for years.
a hotel is not designed for children to live in for years .
I can see many foreign companys not coming to ireland because we do not have
a properly functioning rental market.

The government says it will buy 1000,s of houses ,
wheres the real plan for this.
We need a 10 year plan for housing.
Or else young people will be left paying high rents and
maybe being unable to buy a house as prices rise dues to lack of supply.

Ursus Horribilis

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I know a disabled man who uses a power wheelchair who was offered a first floor flat on a building with no elevator.

Some offers are not tenable for the recipients.

And this is exactly why we can't just tar everyone with the one brush. We need to know more about what sort of accommodation is being offered to people and why they're turning it down.

Spanish Eyes

fussyonion wrote: »

There's a girl on Facebook who's blind and has a guide dog. She's homeless and sleeps rough every night all over Dublin.


Then I heard from someone who works for a homeless charity and said this girl has been homeless for 20 YEARS.

She said "she has her own issues and we've tried to help her" and that's all she said on the matter.

This is why the term "homeless" is just so wrong. There are too many people included in the stats now without any filter.

Grandeeod

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

What a joke.

"Of the 1,009 houses offered to people on the waiting list last year, 300 applicants turned them down or didn't respond to the offer"

Sense of entitlement is killing this country. There is no homeless crisis. Just people jumping the q by going homeless to get their free gaff near their favourite pub and bookies.

http://www.newstalk.com/One-in-four-Dublin-social-homes-reportedly-rejected-49263

Sinn feins daithi on the defensive of course.

There is an element of truth in what you are saying, but just like the typical AHs Dole threads, certain types of people exist and distort the opinion of those that believe they single handedly pay for all of it. I come from a working family and I've been self employed since leaving college 24 years ago. A pain in the bollox really. Needed help at certain times during those years and got it. So did my parents when they needed it. But a homeless crisis does exist and there are actually people relying on the dole that are genuine. I suggest you try not to let the few pricks that are born to bleed the system sway your view on the real reality of those that actually deserve help.

Tigger

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I was homeless myself 4 years ago for 8 months cost me my place in university I'm still dealing with the health implications to this day so shut the hell up about there being no crisis until it has effected you or yours shut the hell up.

were you sleepng on the streets ?

Klonker

It can't be to expensive to build and run dry homeless shelters can it? there can't be more than 500 actual homeless people in Ireland would there? If they are drug addicts or alcoholics well I'm sorry but there is only so much the state can do for you.

On people looking for council houses, we just can't afford to keep housing these people who take no responsibility for their own actions, popping out 5 kids from the same father but are somehow "single", are the f*ck. I would love to here someone in government actually have the balls to speak out against this sort of thing but I can't see it.

A normal working couple may not be able to buy in their preferred location or have as many children as they would like due to financial restraints but a lot of people on council waiting lists are picking there location and popping out a bunch of children and it's just not a fair system, if you can't support the children you have don't have more!

Of course there are genuine cases and there needs to be a safety net for people and I've no problem for people who are trying and have fell on hard times to be helped.

Anyway I dont know what the solution is as even if some people are irresponsible and work adverse the government can't just let them and their children go homeless but they need to try to something to punish, yes punish these people for their selfish behaviour like taking larger and larger % of their welfare/income if they are not actively trying to improve their situation.

Allinall

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The room that was 600 was 4 nights a week. Where do you put your stuff and you know, sleep, the other 3 nights?

This isnt about either of them not affording accommodation, its there about there being none available.

Where's their "stuff" now?

Ursus Horribilis

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

And this is exactly why we can't just tar everyone with the one brush. We need to know more about what sort of accommodation is being offered to people and why they're turning it down.

There was one in Cork (was on the papers/radio down here) that turned a house down as the garden wouldn't fit the kids trampoline in....If there aren't legitimate reasons - then they shouldn't get a second chance (like the trampoline example)

Ursus Horribilis

Livia Wide Signal wrote: »

There was one in Cork (was on the papers/radio down here) that turned a house down as the garden wouldn't fit the kids trampoline in....If there aren't legitimate reasons - then they shouldn't get a second chance (like the trampoline example)

That's fair enough. But you can't put stories like this in the same bracket as a wheelchair user being expected to live in a first floor flat when there's no lift. We need to know what sort of accommodation is being offered to people and why they are turning it down. It might mean taking some unsuitable accommodation off the list altogether. It might mean penalising people who are chancing their arms and being too fussy. But it is a complex issue.

dublinman1990

There is a certain cohort of people who do screw the system. But there are certain people in this country out on the streets who do need to receive genuine help from society to help them out of hard times. Those people who screw the system particularly in social housing do a great deal of disservice to society to allow them reject properties at their own will. There needs to be a strict limit to their consumption of allocated social housing if they are knowingly chancing their arm off the state. Leo did say that before becoming Taoiseach that he acknowledged that there was an entitlement culture in Ireland although it was a very small minority who are like that.

I think each LA around the country should limit the viewing of social housing to people, who receive multiple benefit payments off the state & who have a long history of living previous accommodation from them, to 2 viewings per claimant irregardless of their own financial means. If people, who are viewing these houses & lived in a previous housing allocation from a LA & get rejected off the system & stay where they are as normal. On the other hand; if these certain people agree to moving to another property, they are only allowed to agree by moving to the new social housing unit on a one time basis. Once they move of their previous property, they do it once and once the moving process happens, it's will become permanent & they stay in their new social housing unit for life up until they cannot pay their rents.

If homeless people are viewing a house for the 1st home can allow themselves unlimited viewings to find themselves a home. Homeless charities can continue working with the LA's to decide on what property is suitable for their homeless clients. I am not sure what happens afterwards because if people who were homeless want to stay in their chosen property; they should be entitled to an automatic temporary payment from the state via the community welfare officer until they make a claim for a payment from their social welfare office.

Snotty

The majority of true homeless people do not need homes, they need support and services, if for some miraculous reason 5000 new houses were built and every single homeless person was placed in one, do you really think none of them would be back on the streets, probably within days.

uck51js9zml2yt

alan1963 wrote: »

Wouldn't this save most welfare claimants a walk?

Do you generalise much or are you just being a "insert word here"

RobbingBandit

Tigger wrote: »

were you sleepng on the streets ?

No as I had money that was due to pay for a laptop for university which I used to pay for a hotel for the first few nights and a room in the accommodation in my university was then paid for with my disability payment and my college grant money, sleeping rough wasn't really an option due to my health issues, I paid every cent myself aside from a once off award of emergency funds given by my university. Why do you ask?

Gatling

RobbingBandit wrote: »

No as I had money that was due to pay for a laptop for university which I used to pay for a hotel for the first few nights and a room in the accommodation in my university was then paid for with my disability payment and my college grant money, sleeping rough wasn't really an option due to my health issues, I paid every cent myself aside from a once off award of emergency funds given by my university. Why do you ask?

So essentially you weren't actually homeless per say

suicide_circus

There is certainly a housing supply and affordability crisis in Dublin.

There are also a large number of organisations who are profiting from this situation; banks, vulture funds, investment firms, property portfolios and lest we forget, homeless charities.

RobbingBandit

Gatling wrote: »

So essentially you weren't actually homeless per say

Yes I was homeless for 8 months do you want me to link to the posts on here, Spanish Inquesitiin all of a sudden.

suicide_circus

Come to yhink of it, most people under 40 are probably 2 months from homelessness at any given moment.

For Forks Sake

suicide_circus wrote: »

Come to yhink of it, most people under 40 are probably 2 months from homelessness at any given moment.

Go on...

Wheeliebin30

suicide_circus wrote: »

Come to yhink of it, most people under 40 are probably 2 months from homelessness at any given moment.

So is most of the world.

Sure if we go on technical terms used here 80% of Germans are homeless seems they rent.

tomwaterford

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

So is most of the world.

Sure if we go on technical terms used here 80% of Germans are homeless seems they rent.

There's more people homeless in ireland now,than at any stage since the famine?


A fcuking third world country would be ashamed of this fact...not bladdering on about people renting in germany

suicide_circus

That's my point

suicide_circus

tomwaterford wrote: »

A fcuking third world country would be ashamed of this fact...not bladdering on about people renting in germany

Any third world country would be over the moon if they hadour problems

Wanderer78

The creation of a rentier class, that 'll end well!

Gatling

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Yes I was homeless for 8 months do you want me to link to the posts on here, Spanish Inquesitiin all of a sudden.

You put it out there ,

Not sure where your getting the Spanish inquision from

tomwaterford

suicide_circus wrote: »

Any third world country would be over the moon if they hadour problems

More people homeless than when we were at our poorest? ?

No matter how poor ireland was,it could build and provide social housing....what's the point in developing an econmy if socially were going backwards


If we get a cold winter,how many people will die....this is nearly the 3rd bad year of a bad homeless crisis and still looks to me to be fcuk all being done abut it annd it's only getting worse

Dravokivich

Gatling wrote: »

Should be removed from the lists and blocked from accessing hap and other rent supplements ,

Even people in hotels and b&bs are turning down social housing it's beyond a joke at this point

You are removed from the list when renting on hap.

Wheeliebin30

tomwaterford wrote: »

There's more people homeless in ireland now,than at any stage since the famine?


A fcuking third world country would be ashamed of this fact...not bladdering on about people renting in germany

Actually we have one of the lowest homeless numbers in Europe.

Germany has 230,000.

Sweden has 34,000.

So no I don't think a 3rd world country would be ashamed of this fact.

Slight exaggeration there.

boardsuser1

tomwaterford wrote: »

More people homeless than when we were at our poorest? ?

No matter how poor ireland was,it could build and provide social housing....what's the point in developing an econmy if socially were going backwards


If we get a cold winter,how many people will die....this is nearly the 3rd bad year of a bad homeless crisis and still looks to me to be fcuk all being done abut it annd it's only getting worse

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Actually we have one of the lowest homeless numbers in Europe.

Germany has 230,000.

Sweden has 34,000.

So no I don't think a 3rd world country would be ashamed of this fact.

Slight exaggeration there.

The Population of Ireland is less than all the above mentioned Tom.

Wheelie has a point in what he is saying.

Gatling

Dravokivich wrote: »

You are removed from the list when renting on hap.

No you can actually stay on the list and many do

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

tomwaterford wrote: »

More people homeless than when we were at our poorest? ?

No matter how poor ireland was,it could build and provide social housing....what's the point in developing an econmy if socially were going backwards


If we get a cold winter,how many people will die....this is nearly the 3rd bad year of a bad homeless crisis and still looks to me to be fcuk all being done abut it annd it's only getting worse

We've had years and years of women having babies leaving school to get a house, we've have generations of people expecting a house because their mam had one and their siblings have one. For a very long time there has been no incentive in this country to stand on your own two feet. We're just out of a harsh recession where people who went out to work were being rode for taxes to keep the rest of the country afloat. The working population had to make huge sacrifices and even throughout the arse falling out of the economy we still had one of the most lucrative social welfare schemes in the country. When the government are expected to pay fuel allowances, maternity grants, back to school grants, FIS, Christmas bonuses etc and you have a certain type of person refusing to pay any rates or charges to maintain local areas or water charges, when they expect the government to put nightdresses and sanitary pads in a hospital bag, something had to give and it was the construction of social housing.

How many 3 bed houses were given out to families 20+ years ago? Kids are grown up, in their own council houses now, and mammy still has her 3 bed family home as she's living there alone. The giving of a social house and leaving people there forever is a joke. There's no way one person should be left rattling around a 3 bed house when there's kids being reared in hotel rooms.

Now the fact that there's no money to house these people mean the government has pushed the responsibility to the private landlords, forcing them and making it illegal for them to refuse to accept rent allowance/HAP on the property they own, therefore driving up the rent crazy high on everybody else.

ChikiChiki

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Actually we have one of the lowest homeless numbers in Europe.

Germany has 230,000.

Sweden has 34,000.

So no I don't think a 3rd world country would be ashamed of this fact.

Slight exaggeration there.

Facepalm on this point. Germany has a population of over 80m.

Sweden nearly 10m.

For Forks Sake

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Actually we have one of the lowest homeless numbers in Europe.

Germany has 230,000.

Sweden has 34,000.

So no I don't think a 3rd world country would be ashamed of this fact.

Slight exaggeration there.

And in a more local context, in Northern Ireland, population 1.8m has about 15000 homeless people, and 53 deaths in 2016 alone.

RoI population 4.8m has 8270 listed as homeless

PeterParker957

LexieOnRale wrote: »

We've had years and years of women having babies leaving school to get a house, we've have generations of people expecting a house because their mam had one and their siblings have one. For a very long time there has been no incentive in this country to stand on your own two feet. We're just out of a harsh recession where people who went out to work were being rode for taxes to keep the rest of the country afloat. The working population had to make huge sacrifices and even throughout the arse falling out of the economy we still had one of the most lucrative social welfare schemes in the country. When the government are expected to pay fuel allowances, maternity grants, back to school grants, FIS, Christmas bonuses etc and you have a certain type of person refusing to pay any rates or charges to maintain local areas or water charges, when they expect the government to put nightdresses and sanitary pads in a hospital bag, something had to give and it was the construction of social housing.

How many 3 bed houses were given out to families 20+ years ago? Kids are grown up, in their own council houses now, and mammy still has her 3 bed family home as she's living there alone. The giving of a social house and leaving people there forever is a joke. There's no way one person should be left rattling around a 3 bed house when there's kids being reared in hotel rooms.

Now the fact that there's no money to house these people mean the government has pushed the responsibility to the private landlords, forcing them and making it illegal for them to refuse to accept rent allowance/HAP on the property they own, therefore driving up the rent crazy high on everybody else.

You have my vote!

PeterParker957

For Forks Sake wrote: »

And in a more local context, in Northern Ireland, population 1.8m has about 15000 homeless people, and 53 deaths in 2016 alone.

RoI population 4.8m has 8270 listed as homeless

Listed yes. Actually "homeless", God no.

I'd like to ask the alleged homeless mammys - how many of the children were conceived AFTER they became homeless. Interesting to find that out.

RobbingBandit

RobbingBandit wrote: »

No as I had money that was due to pay for a laptop for university which I used to pay for a hotel for the first few nights and a room in the accommodation in my university was then paid for with my disability payment and my college grant money, sleeping rough wasn't really an option due to my health issues, I paid every cent myself aside from a once off award of emergency funds given by my university. Why do you ask?

Forgive me if I’ve missed a post but I’m confused.

How can you define yourself as homeless based on the above?

Ursus Horribilis

LexieOnRale wrote: »

How many 3 bed houses were given out to families 20+ years ago? Kids are grown up, in their own council houses now, and mammy still has her 3 bed family home as she's living there alone. The giving of a social house and leaving people there forever is a joke. There's no way one person should be left rattling around a 3 bed house when there's kids being reared in hotel rooms.
.

They'd have been paying rent on these, surely? And in some cases, have bought them out.

I grew up in a town where there were a lot of council houses. A lot of the kids in my class were from the council estates and had parents working in modest jobs. Even if their parents haven't bought their houses out at this stage I wouldn't like to throw them out on their ear just because their children have grown and flown. They're living in communities and are settled. Where would you put them? It still comes back to the original issue. We need more social housing and forever homes for people who aren't ever going to earn enough to buy their own homes on the open market.

For Forks Sake

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Listed yes. Actually "homeless", God no.

I'd like to ask the alleged homeless mammys - how many of the children were conceived AFTER they became homeless. Interesting to find that out.

Trying to get national data on rough sleepers is understandably difficult, dublin was 161 earlier this year.

PeterParker957

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Trying to get national data on rough sleepers is understandably difficult, dublin was 161 earlier this year.

I'd say easily more - I have a 25 minute walk to work from the train and pass a dozen easily.

They're homeless and in need of help.

Edel thing from the other week and that Erica wagon - not so much.

VinLieger

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Facepalm on this point. Germany has a population of over 80m.

Sweden nearly 10m.

Facepalm for you methinks, as a percantage of population we still have less homeless people at 0.0018% than Germany at 0.0028%and sweden at 0.0034%

Wheeliebin30

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Facepalm on this point. Germany has a population of over 80m.

Sweden nearly 10m.

Double facepalm for you.

Ireland has a population of 5.5 million and 8,000 homeless.

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 34,000 homeless people.

Ireland has a better record.

Same with Germany.

Seriously simple little maths you don't seem capable of.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

They'd have been paying rent on these, surely? And in some cases, have bought them out.

I grew up in a town where there were a lot of council houses. A lot of the kids in my class were from the council estates and had parents working in modest jobs. Even if their parents haven't bought their houses out at this stage I wouldn't like to throw them out on their ear just because their children have grown and flown. They're living in communities and are settled. Where would you put them? It still comes back to the original issue. We need more social housing and forever homes for people who aren't ever going to earn enough to buy their own homes on the open market.

If they don't own the house then they shouldn't be left there over a family with kids homeless. It's a social house belonging to the council and the person no longer needs a 3 bed house. They should be moved to 1 bed apartments/flats (easier to build than more 3bed houses). This should not be a forever home unless it's bought and paid for. Rent is paid on how many people live there, is it? Regardless, circumstances have changed since they were given that house and one person no longer needs a huge house.

Pelvis

RobbingBandit wrote: »

No as I had money that was due to pay for a laptop for university which I used to pay for a hotel for the first few nights and a room in the accommodation in my university was then paid for with my disability payment and my college grant money, sleeping rough wasn't really an option due to my health issues, I paid every cent myself aside from a once off award of emergency funds given by my university. Why do you ask?

You weren't homeless.

Ursus Horribilis

LexieOnRale wrote: »

If they don't own the house then they shouldn't be left there over a family with kids homeless. It's a social house belonging to the council and the person no longer needs a 3 bed house. They should be moved to 1 bed apartments/flats (easier to build than more 3bed houses). This should not be a forever home unless it's bought and paid for. Rent is paid on how many people live there, is it? Regardless, circumstances have changed since they were given that house and one person no longer needs a huge house.

So if someone has lived in the house for decades, raised a family there, is settled etc. they should be kicked out? Any 1 bed apartments I've been in are utterly unsuitable for anyone to live in long term. There's zero storage, they're badly built, badly laid out and it's questionable whether they're suitable for older people. Where would you put a wheelchair or a hoist or a zimmer frame if they become decrepit?

No, the government needs to start building houses and stop relying on landlords. It's no good for anyone.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

So if someone has lived in the house for decades, raised a family there, is settled etc. they should be kicked out? Any 1 bed apartments I've been in are utterly unsuitable for anyone to live in long term. There's zero storage, they're badly built, badly laid out and it's questionable whether they're suitable for older people. Where would you put a wheelchair or a hoist or a zimmer frame if they become decrepit?

No, the government needs to start building houses and stop relying on landlords. It's no good for anyone.

Yes. 1 person does not need larger than 1 bedroom and if they do then it's up to them to fund it. Plenty of people in private renting manage fine in one bed apts. where do you expect the government to find the money? Cut social welfare? Get rid of back to school allowances and maternity grants and Xmas bonuses? Because the rest of us shouldn't have to carry the can. You're not entitled to a free house, your basic needs of shelter should be met. Anything more than that, pay for it yourself

tomwaterford

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Double facepalm for you.

Ireland has a population of 5.5 million and 8,000 homeless.

Sweden has a population of 10 million and 34,000 homeless people.

Ireland has a better record.

Same with Germany.

Seriously simple little maths you don't seem capable of.

These having huge homeless amounts makes it ok for ireland,how??


Simply put ireland supposedly rich and letting people die of cold in the streets,(and it will happen if we get a cold winter) is not and can never be right,?


Why you think because Germany and Sweden have homeless figures higher than ireland, makes this acceptable is something I can't fathom?

I don't really care about rest of the world only ireland?

tomwaterford

tomwaterford wrote: »

These having huge homeless amounts makes it ok for ireland,how??


Simply put ireland supposedly rich and letting people die of cold in the streets,(and it will happen if we get a cold winter) is not and can never be right,?


Why you think because Germany and Sweden have homeless figures higher than ireland, makes this acceptable is something I can't fathom?

I don't really care about rest of the world only ireland?

You're being given context. The figures aren't huge at all and you're simply not correct to say so

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You're being given context. The figures aren't huge at all and you're simply not correct to say so

And that's accepting that 'homeless' means 'homeless' which is......murky at best


Where you get the confidence that figures for 'homeless' now are comparable to famine times......frankly that is a statement that damages any credibility you might hope to maintain.

Gatling

LexieOnRale wrote: »

If they don't own the house then they shouldn't be left there over a family with kids homeless. It's a social house belonging to the council and the person no longer needs a 3 bed house. They should be moved to 1 bed apartments/flats (easier to build than more 3bed houses). This should not be a forever home unless it's bought and paid for. Rent is paid on how many people live there, is it? Regardless, circumstances have changed since they were given that house and one person no longer needs a huge house.

It's been said before ,but the replies end up of oh what about their memories in the house , what about taking their grandchildren over night (who live several doors down in another council house)

The rule is your housed on your needs having a 3,4,5 bed properties that house a single or two tenants is a joke.,
My in-laws have a 5 bed council house only use the sitting room and kitchen they don't use the bed rooms at all ,
But yet they would never give it up , unless moved to another 5 bed

djPSB

tomwaterford wrote: »

These having huge homeless amounts makes it ok for ireland,how??


Simply put ireland supposedly rich and letting people die of cold in the streets,(and it will happen if we get a cold winter) is not and can never be right,?


Why you think because Germany and Sweden have homeless figures higher than ireland, makes this acceptable is something I can't fathom?

I don't really care about rest of the world only ireland?

What is an acceptable level of homelessness?

The blame for homelessness does not 100% lie with the government. There has to be some personal accountability there also.