The Irish landlord as the weakest link

Baby01032012

I as a landlord let apartment.

Letting agent took their professional fee didn't check falsified references and put a prostitution ring in. Complaint with PSRA for over 2 months but I'm not expecting much at this stage.

Gardai got warrant after 2 months surveillance. They went in took evidence mobile phones etc. Have warned them they are carrying out illegal business and warned them to get out. I continue to monitor cctv set up outside apartment and it's business as usual.

Had my adjudication with the RTB and awaiting their determination. Tenants didn't show so it was straight forward and adjudicator is happy to find in my favour in relation to valid notice of termination, over holdings and rent arrears. However I don't see tenants complying or RTB pursing this through the courts.

So no chance of getting them out and putting in tenants who really want accommodation.

So absolutely no culpability and no one is held liable for their part in this mess.

Vent over. I'm not looking for sympathy or advice either but all opinions welcome.

jsd1004

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I as a landlord let apartment.

Letting agent took their professional fee didn't check falsified references and put a prostitution ring in. Complaint with PSRA for over 2 months but I'm not expecting much at this stage.

Gardai got warrant after 2 months surveillance. They went in took evidence mobile phones etc. Have warned them they are carrying out illegal business and warned them to get out. I continue to monitor cctv set up outside apartment and it's business as usual.

Had my adjudication with the RTB and awaiting their determination. Tenants didn't show so it was straight forward and adjudicator is happy to find in my favour in relation to valid notice of termination, over holdings and rent arrears. However I don't see tenants complying or RTB pursing this through the courts.

So no chance of getting them out and putting in tenants who really want accommodation.

So absolutely no culpability and no one is held liable for their part in this mess.

Vent over. I'm not looking for sympathy or advice either but all opinions welcome.

Let a property yourself. Dont use letting agents. They have only interest in their fee. If you dont have time/interest consider getting out of the property business.

DubCount

OP. You may not ask for sympathy, but you certainly have my sympathy. The system is completely broken from a landlord point of view. After wasting time going through the pointless RTB process and then spending more time and money on real courts, you will eventually get your property back. You'll have no recourse against the tenant for lost rent or damage caused to your property.

Maybe it might be worth contacting a solicitor to see if you have a potential action against the agent for their negligence.

davo10

What I don't get is why Gardai are allowing it to continue. Surely they should be going back there again to get them to move on.

I don't think there is any benefit in you getting involved with the tenants personally, this could be a criminal gang. But if you stand outside with a camera taking photos of those going in, they'll soon stop coming around.

AmberGold

Hard luck there OP. No faith in Agents myself, RTB is a useless quango.

__..__

Only chance anyone has to stay in property rental these days is to go to short term rental only. Something like Airbnb where the whole sum is paid up front and there is a credit card on the line.
When you have to go through the likes of the rtb the cards are stacked entirely against you. Avoid anything that has anything to do with the rtb. Stick to short term or get out would be my advice. It doesn't help you in your current situation as you are already under the control of the rtb, but for anyone else think long and hard.

johnty56

Get stickers printed saying ' this area monitored by recorded CCTV. Footage given to Gardai' or something like that, and stick them to the front door of the apartment/ the walls beside the door. I think it would deter their customers. If they can't do business they will move fast.

Mrs OBumble

davo10 wrote: »

What I don't get is why Gardai are allowing it to continue. Surely they should be going back there again to get them to move on.

They currently know where the pigeons are roosting.

If the operation was moved on, it would just go to another location and it would be more work for the guards to locate them again.


OP - is the rent being paid? Is the property being looked after (albeit with more wear-and-tear than you would expect for normal residential use)? If the answers are Yes and Yes and Yo, then I would be doing nothing further: you've covered yourself by reporting it etc, and now you just wait for developments.

If either answer is "no" then you need broker a deal with them: offer return of the deposit, a good reference and a cash sweetener if the place is returned in reasonable condition by a certain date. Yes, it sucks that you're paying money to scummers. But the other options are to continue with the problem or to find that the place gets trashed. The latter in particular will cost you wayy more than any cash sweetener.

Askthe EA

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

then I would be doing nothing further: you've covered yourself by reporting it etc, and now you just wait for developments.

Except that in all likelihood, the property is not covered by insurance....

Baby01032012

OP here again.

Tenant overholding and not paying rent 3 months. Using apartment for prostitution.

RTB adjudication hearing 3 weeks ago. Will be another 3 weeks due to back log. Just to issue report that will be ignored by tenant.

Garda have been in and warned them that what they are doing is illegal. It had no effect. They carry on. I've advised Garda that they are still carrying on their criminal trade. They said they will go in again in 2 weeks which will be next week.

At this stage I'm frustrated with the law in this country. There is nothing that can be done if they choose to ignore the law and my hands are tied.

Any suggestions welcome.

Obviously no illegal suggestions to be mentioned here. Thank you.

__..__

Baby01032012 wrote: »

OP here again.

Tenant overholding and not paying rent 3 months. Using apartment for prostitution.

RTB adjudication hearing 3 weeks ago. Will be another 3 weeks due to back log. Just to issue report that will be ignored by tenant.

Garda have been in and warned them that what they are doing is illegal. It had no effect. They carry on. I've advised Garda that they are still carrying on their criminal trade. They said they will go in again in 2 weeks which will be next week.

At this stage I'm frustrated with the law in this country. There is nothing that can be done if they choose to ignore the law and my hands are tied.

Any suggestions welcome.

Obviously no illegal suggestions to be mentioned here. Thank you.

I think you are doing everything you can.
There is nothing else you can really do. The system is set up against you. And you are the one being hung out to dry.

godtabh

I'm a director of a management company. Something similar happened in one of the units. The landlord took 2 years to get your one out.

They did some dogy stuff to do it as well and she still lasted.

Ms Doubtfire1

involve revenue? Illegal business or not - they are probably not paying any taxes...

the_syco

Baby01032012 wrote: »

RTB adjudication hearing 3 weeks ago. Will be another 3 weeks due to back log. Just to issue report that will be ignored by tenant.

Can you get a sheriff to evict them?

davindub

Baby01032012 wrote: »

OP here again.

Tenant overholding and not paying rent 3 months. Using apartment for prostitution.

RTB adjudication hearing 3 weeks ago. Will be another 3 weeks due to back log. Just to issue report that will be ignored by tenant.

Garda have been in and warned them that what they are doing is illegal. It had no effect. They carry on. I've advised Garda that they are still carrying on their criminal trade. They said they will go in again in 2 weeks which will be next week.

At this stage I'm frustrated with the law in this country. There is nothing that can be done if they choose to ignore the law and my hands are tied.

Any suggestions welcome.

Obviously no illegal suggestions to be mentioned here. Thank you.

Try the local paper. Highlighting this will kill their business but just ask the paper not to publish the exact address etc.

DubCount

the_syco wrote: »

Can you get a sheriff to evict them?

You can't get the sheriff to evict them on the basis of a RTB tribunal finding. To get the Sheriff, you need a District/Circuit order. Being able to lawfully evict based on a RTB hearing, or just being allowed file a case with the real courts without a pointless trip through the RTB is just way to sensible and idea to become a reality.

And the only political debate on the private rented sector...... protect tenants with anti-eviction legislation or bureaucracy around deposits.

In my view, addressing this fiasco would be the single biggest thing the government could do to reduce homelessness and reduce rental inflation. Yet, you never hear one politician want to even make a suggestion in this direction.

BrokenArrows

You could probably bring a case against the letting agent for falsifying the reference checks and make them liable for your lost income.

Baby01032012

BrokenArrows wrote: »

You could probably bring a case against the letting agent for falsifying the reference checks and make them liable for your lost income.

I have to go through the PSRA on that one, I raised complaint 2 months ago. Another 4 months before they will get to it. But they advised me that they don't even investigate what amounts to poor service.

emeldc

Anyone any links to any court cases where the non rent paying prostitutes/scumbags actually sued the landlord because he turned up with a few heavies and a couple of German shepherds to get them out ........and won. Genuine question.

Nomis21

OP it is time to try a more intelligent approach.

You need someone to pose as a customer for the prostitution business. When your friend gets to be alone with the girl, he makes it quite plain to her that he is your agent and she has to leave the premises or the guards will be called.

With this sort of direct action I don't think that she will continue working in your property.

LollipopJimmy

Nomis21 wrote: »

OP it is time to try a more intelligent approach.

You need someone to pose as a customer for the prostitution business. When your friend gets to be alone with the girl, he makes it quite plain to her that he is your agent and she has to leave the premises or the guards will be called.

With this sort of direct action I don't think that she will continue working in your property.

Chances are these girls have a boss... this kind of thing can put them in danger. Better to inform the management company or residents association.

emeldc

Nomis21 wrote: »

OP it is time to try a more intelligent approach.

You need someone to pose as a customer for the prostitution business. When your friend gets to be alone with the girl, he makes it quite plain to her that he is your agent and she has to leave the premises or the guards will be called.

With this sort of direct action I don't think that she will continue working in your property.

What if Mike Tyson is in the sitting room looking after the till.

Baby01032012

Nomis21 wrote: »

OP it is time to try a more intelligent approach.

You need someone to pose as a customer for the prostitution business. When your friend gets to be alone with the girl, he makes it quite plain to her that he is your agent and she has to leave the premises or the guards will be called.

With this sort of direct action I don't think that she will continue working in your property.

3 girls working 2 guys protecting them in the apartment armed with knives and guns. I'd love to walk up there but I have a Mrs and small kiddies.

Duncanwooly

A friend of mine (Tennant) has been through this. No support from the Gardaí, letting agent, ended up being assaulted. He won a case at the RTB (3rd party), but it's taken a huge toll on him and nothing has changed. The prostitutes are still working form the same location.

Get a good solicitor, evict on grounds you're selling or it's needed for a family member. Your priority has to be you and your family's safety.

kaymin

If you have a garda that is a friend that would be your best option. Having a garda call around every evening for a few weeks would likely drive them off.

emeldc

Baby01032012 wrote: »

3 girls working 2 guys protecting them in the apartment armed with knives and guns. I'd love to walk up there but I have a Mrs and small kiddies.

Knives & guns, seriously? And the guards are not coming back for another two weeks?

the_syco

Nomis21 wrote: »

You need someone to pose as a customer for the prostitution business. When your friend gets to be alone with the girl, he makes it quite plain to her that he is your agent and she has to leave the premises or the guards will be called.

Your friend will get the crap kicked out of him, ID taken off him, and told to cop on, or they'll come to his house. Criminals that don't obey the law generally will break the law to continue their business.

Nomis21 wrote: »

With this sort of direct action I don't think that she will continue working in your property.

You word it like she has a choice in the matter. Although some choose the profession, some don't.

pwurple

Oh you have my sympathy OP. And this can happen without an agent too btw. They put forward someone clean with references at the start, then a completely different bunch move in. Be exceptionally careful here.

Ruhama are a trafficking support organisation. They may have some advice.

listermint

Suppose you want the meter location moved as it's not right, what if the esb disconnected the power so you could move the meter but struggle to locate a contractor for the move for a few weeks

Ken.

So the Gardai, who are up to their necks in scandal after scandal know about illegal activity and are doing nothing. There are 2 ways to go about this. Either ring gsoc and tell them or ring the papers.

hawkelady

I don't believe for one minute that the guards are doing nothing while knowing that there are "guns" on the property. Something's amiss