The Irish landlord as the weakest link

Baby01032012

I've shut off electricity. Well i have the best management company. They might put it on day time to show activity should it be questioned. I'll talk to solicitor again this morning.dectective said it's a grey area. I haven't got the DO yet. I have a RTB adjudication. Letter stating they have 2 weeks to appeal so another week and then 7 days to leave. The guards had told me they voluntarily left when they turned up. So I've taken that to mean they left voluntarily in line with the adjudication letter so I've taken back possession and what they did was thresspassing and breaking and entering. Also I've never seen these people before and are definitely not the tenants so I've no contract with them.

mahamageehad

Jesus this thread is something else altogether. Are you saying the people in the apartment now aren't the ones you rented to at all? If so, I'm at a complete loss as to why this isn't being treated as breaking and entering, sure it would be if this bunch of randos did it to any other apartment?

housetypeb

If you've never seen the current occupants before,and the other named tenants on the lease have left, surely this has to be looked at as breaking and entering,attempted burglary or whatever?

emeldc

What the fug is 'grey' about people you've never seen before picking the locks on your house and moving in. Jesus OP you're one patient man.

pilly

emeldc wrote: »

What the fug is 'grey' about people you've never seen before picking the locks on your house and moving in. Jesus OP you're one patient man.

I agree, I'd dumb my arse down in the police station and stay there until they came with me to get these people out.

It's like me going home this evening and finding some random family have moved into my house.

pc7

Jesus I feel so sorry for you, what an absolute cluster fook. The neck of them, sounds like the people running the brothel just brought new girls in. Could you see the locksmiths name on a van or that? I'd be getting them in sharpish to redo locks for free.

Baby01032012

Man co checked cctv they parked in pub around corner so not in range of cctv and wore hoodies.

My solicitor believes I had right to take possession after they volunteered the property and what happpend yesterday is a criminal matter. He's writhing to the superintendent now and I have one TD who is going to run with this once he gets a copy of solicitors letter. I'm monitoring the CCTV and they haven't come back yet all they did was change looks and leave.

pc7

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Man co checked cctv they parked in pub around corner so not in range of cctv and wore hoodies.

My solicitor believes I had right to take possession after they volunteered the property and what happpend yesterday is a criminal matter. He's writhing to the superintendent now and I have one TD who is going to run with this once he gets a copy of solicitors letter. I'm monitoring the CCTV and they haven't come back yet all they did was change looks and leave.

Then I think you should rechange locks and get a few friends and stay there for the weekend.

LollipopJimmy

The pub should have CCTV, if you ask nicely they might tell you the name on the van or reg. Unlikely they'll let you view it but they might do that for you.

pc7

Could the management company change the lock to the main entrance to the block and reissue keys to tenants/owners?

Baby01032012

Man co are getting someone to bang keys into the locks and cut them off. And are going to board up the door.

my poor tortured hands

It seems the OP is performing an illegal eviction. At least, it's almost certain that that's how the tenants will describe the situation.

What rights do the Gardai have to require that people leave their home?
In other words, the fact that the Gardai attended the house and the tenants left a few nights ago appears to have no legal significance. They are still the tenants. They left their house and came home to find their landlord had changed the locks. They re-entered the property.


The situation is terrible but it is a failure of Irish politicans to do their job. They have failed to provide a legal system which works. The OP has been abandoned by politicans who appear not to care about his plight. There is a major lack of appropriate mechanisms and laws to deal with and to remove overstaying and anti-social tenants.

Baby01032012

I have not done anything illegal so let's not start that discussion. The Gardai on foot of a bench warrant have entered the apartment. The tenants have agreed to voluntarily give up the apartment, have vacated in an orderly manner and returned keys. No one evicted them. Someone else not tenant went to the apartment and broke in and changed locks. This is supported by my solicitor who has taken action to ensure this criminal act is investigated. I have also informed GSOC of the failure to investigate a crime or take a statement from me.

The_Conductor

my poor tortured hands wrote: »

It seems the OP is performing an illegal eviction. At least, it's almost certain that that's how the tenants will describe the situation..

I don't understand how/why you imagine that the OP is performing an illegal eviction. The OP's tenants voluntarily left the property. The person(s) who came back and changed the lock- according to the CCTV footage- was not the tenant- and is not known to the landlord.

my poor tortured hands wrote: »

What rights do the Gardai have to require that people leave their home?
In other words, the fact that the Gardai attended the house and the tenants left a few nights ago appears to have no legal significance. They are still the tenants. They left their house and came home to find their landlord had changed the locks. They re-entered the property..

The original tenants- who are no longer in the picture- were running a brothel from the property. It is not the original tenant who have re-entered the property- it is parties unknown to the landlord. The people who changed the lock- are not known to the landlord- and he/she has no relationship with them.

my poor tortured hands wrote: »

The situation is terrible but it is a failure of Irish politicans to do their job. They have failed to provide a legal system which works. The OP has been abandoned by politicans who appear not to care about his plight. There is a major lack of appropriate mechanisms and laws to deal with and to remove overstaying and anti-social tenants.

This was the issue at the outset- its now moved on to some random strangers who have commandeered the OP's property..........

This is mental.

Best of luck OP. Wish there was more I could do than just some random words on here.

And to the poster above who says it’s an illegal eviction. What the actual ****? Even though it isn’t, who would care if it was? Not me anyway.

Baby01032012

To be fair GSOC have been quick to pick it up. I've had a senior case officer email me with questions and clarifications which I've gone back with as much information as possible.

Apartment is still empty. Not sure where this cat and mouse game is going. They changed the locks but 24 hours later and they haven't gone back in.

Intimidation possibly?

Baby01032012

I had readvertised the apartment yesterday. Some genuine people who are homeless and need accommodation asap. Now I don't know when I can safely give it to them. I'm not going to put a new tenant at risk of someone breaking into their home.

my poor tortured hands

I think the situation is terrible. Not receiving rent for four months while criminals run a criminal enterprise from your house is bizarre. I personally think that Irish society has been destroyed by politicans and by policemen who refuse to do their job.


There doesn't appear to be any paperwork to support the fact that the tenants left. There's a RTB adjudication in a few days. There hasn't been any convictions for prostitution in the courts.

The police detective said it was a grey situation. That suggests the new people are connected to the older tenants. It's likely the new people in the house claim to be tenants under the lease.

Ireland has a reputation for not enforcing the law. This is the result. When individual citizens need the law enforced it doesn't happen. Make no mistake, I think the police and politicans are despicable cowards.


The situation is very tricky.
Can you evict people for serious anti social behaviour merely on the say-so of the Garda, or must a conviction be secured in the courts?

pilly

my poor tortured hands wrote: »

I think the situation is terrible. Not receiving rent for four months while criminals run a criminal enterprise from your house is bizarre. I personally think that Irish society has been destroyed by politicans and by policemen who refuse to do their job.


There doesn't appear to be any paperwork to support the fact that the tenants left. There's a RTB adjudication in a few days. There hasn't been any convictions for prostitution in the courts.

The police detective said it was a grey situation. That suggests the new people are connected to the older tenants. It's likely the new people in the house claim to be tenants under the lease.

Ireland has a reputation for not enforcing the law. This is the result. When individual citizens need the law enforced it doesn't happen. Make no mistake, I think the police and politicans are despicable cowards.


The situation is very tricky.
Can you evict people for serious anti social behaviour merely on the say-so of the Garda, or must a conviction be secured in the courts?

Not that it's the most salient point but I think it's important to point out that prostitution is not illegal in this country. The buying of sex is, the selling isn't.

Graham

my poor tortured hands wrote: »

Can you evict people for serious anti social behaviour merely on the say-so of the Garda, or must a conviction be secured in the courts?

Mod Note Please don't drag the thread off into a hypothetical discussion of the law.

Caliden

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I had readvertised the apartment yesterday. Some genuine people who are homeless and need accommodation asap. Now I don't know when I can safely give it to them. I'm not going to put a new tenant at risk of someone breaking into their home.

I'd take any of those replies with a pinch of salt.

Plenty of people are desperate for accommodation and sadly some resort to lies in order to invoke an emotional response.

I would have thought that given your current situation you would be a lot more careful with who you rent to.

Baby01032012

I wouldn't paint everyone with same brush. I'll be staying away from tenants of a certain nationality. I've no problem with those in receipt of HAP once I get references I can fully check myself. I ended up with my current criminals because agent wanted to stay away from those in receipt of support.

Ken.

All locksmiths now have to be psa cleared like security guards and bouncers. If one is going around changing locks on random peoples property I'd be doing my best to find out who they are and reporting their conduct.

Baby01032012

Management company have circulated his mugshot to all locksmiths he doesn't work for any. Took him an hour what would take a locksmith 10 minutes so he was some handyman they got not a proper locksmith

Baby01032012

Now I've just watched my apartment door been boarded up with 2 sheets of plywood. Now no one will get in. Will probably leave in place for a week and think about what to do next

The_Conductor

Put a notice in the Window- 'Smile, you're being recorded on CCTV'. CCTV is in use in this property to protect against losses, damage or criminality. CCTV usage in this property is in domestic setting- and the property owner is availing of the domestic exemption under the Act. Footage is streamed and stored off-site. Any inquiries should be directed to (give name and phone number of your agent).

Following this- find a male colleague or friend- and organise that they stay over for a few nights. Between having a burly male in the property- and a warning in the window that people who visit the property will be captured on CCTV with the stream stored off-site- it won't be of any interest to your previous tenants- and word will get round fast enough- that its previous guise (aka Brothel) is no longer accurate- go elsewhere...........

I'd strongly encourage you to get a bulky/burly male- a family member or close friend- and get them to stay there for a forthnight- to try extinguish the associations with the property.........

enricoh

rawn wrote: »

Completely irrelevant.

OP, I'm shocked at the Gardai, they've been evicted! They're clearly breaking and entering, keep at them, refuse to leave the Garda station until something is done!

Completely irrelevant if they are legally allowed in this country or not? Thats the spirit! I wonder would immigration control be worth a bell if they are non eu .
Op approach a multinational company or two and tell them u have the property to rent. Highly paid professionals and some companies will go guarantor nowadays

murphaph

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I wouldn't paint everyone with same brush. I'll be staying away from tenants of a certain nationality. I've no problem with those in receipt of HAP once I get references I can fully check myself. I ended up with my current criminals because agent wanted to stay away from those in receipt of support.

Stay away from hap as well. You will go mental dealing with council housing departments.

Get it let to some professional guys with good verified references from last but one or two landlords. Current LL reference is a waste of paper.

A_Sober_Paddy

If you have CCTV outside the property, post it all over the internet, the clientele will stop returning