The Irish landlord as the weakest link

The_Conductor

emeldc wrote: »

I'd have re-let that apartment ages ago. Let someone else chase you for a change.

As a landlord- you are automatically in the wrong- unless the RTB processes are exhausted- if you put a single step wrong- and the tenant is automatically in the right. If the OP simply relet the apartment while there was an ongoing RTB appeal- it could result in a summary judgement in favour of the tenants- wholly aside from anything the tenant did or didn't do.

The system is irretrievably broken- as per the entire saga the OP has depicted.

Sort of reminds me of the story in the media during the week- where a burglar broke into a shop, was caught red handed by Gardaí- ran back into the shop with no lights on and hurt themselves in the dark- and is suing the owner of the shop for negligence- as they hurt themselves in the dark...........

It doesn't matter what these people do- the system is setup to protect them- and to assume that the shop owner, or the landlord (or the Gardaí) are in the wrong.

The 'system' is irretrievably broken.

pc7

Thanks for the update OP, you really had a sh*tty hand dealt to you with this one, hope your case against the letting agent goes well and you can stay afloat during this time.

emeldc

The_Conductor wrote: »

As a landlord- you are automatically in the wrong- unless the RTB processes are exhausted......
The system is irretrievably broken

Yep, you're right and will remain broken until landlords start fighting back against some of these nonsensical rules. As I said, if it were me I would re-let the apartment.

Thargor

Thanks for the updates, please let us know how it goes.

riclad

the system is Broken in as it takes 2 years to evict a tenant by going through the courts.
Maybe in future ask for id,s from potential tenants ,only take tenants who work for well known companys or local retail outlets.
The gardai tend to stay away from tenant / landlord disputes.
the the purpose of the prtb.
Its regarded as a legal dispute between the landlord and the tenants.
Of course they should arrest anyone who runs a brothel anyway.
Tell the management company whats going on .
The legal system does not presume anyone is wrong, its just that it takes a long time to take a tenant to court ,and in the meantime the landlord gets paid no rent.
if they get a letter to go to court re an eviction notice they,ll probably just leave the apartment before the court date.
You,ll have to keep a close eye on the apartment.
Theres a standard legal process you have to go through to evict someone legally.
I Know 4 landlords ,they only take tenants who work for certain companys and earn at least 20k,
all tenants have to show id,etc and show they work for a certain employer.
you can make fake references .its harder to show you work for company x etc by making a fake document.

KellyXX

riclad wrote: »

the system is Broken in as it takes 2 years to evict a tenant by going through the courts.
Maybe in future ask for id,s from potential tenants ,only take tenants who work for well known companys or local retail outlets.
The gardai tend to stay away from tenant / landlord disputes.
the the purpose of the prtb.
Its regarded as a legal dispute between the landlord and the tenants.
Of course they should arrest anyone who runs a brothel anyway.
Tell the management company whats going on .
The legal system does not presume anyone is wrong, its just that it takes a long time to take a tenant to court ,and in the meantime the landlord gets paid no rent.
if they get a letter to go to court re an eviction notice they,ll probably just leave the apartment before the court date.
You,ll have to keep a close eye on the apartment.
Theres a standard legal process you have to go through to evict someone legally.
I Know 4 landlords ,they only take tenants who work for certain companys and earn at least 20k,
all tenants have to show id,etc and show they work for a certain employer.
you can make fake references .its harder to show you work for company x etc by making a fake document.

My current landlord let to me through Airbnb so they have my credit card and payment in advance. But on top of that he wanted to see bank statements and letters from work from both of us. HR told me he called them too.
He made sure we we're both working for our companies for the last 2 years and he asked for references from 3 previous landlords.
We had all that ready so we weren't put out. But he did some amount of checking if he called them all too.
I got a bit annoyed with my last landlord, totally my fault and I was prepared to fall out with him before I saw sense. I'm.glad now I didn't dirty my bib with him because he will have a say on if I get a new rental should I need one for years to come.

Baby01032012

Update from OP

RTB tribunal hearing this morning. As expected tenants didn't turn up so their appeal was struck out and original determination order will issue in due course.

Waste of half day off work, waste of detective sergeant who turned up, waste of time of 3 board members and stenographer.

No chance of RTB enforcing the order. Cost and chance of success of case against letting agent I have to weight up.

Will probably just cut the €10000 loss and move on...probably sell up

Wanderer78

Baby01032012 wrote:

Will probably just cut the €10000 loss and move on...probably sell up

What a disaster of a system, best of luck

Caliden

RTB's lack of enforcement is the weak link here and severely hinders any progress towards an outcome for a landlord.

GGTrek

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Update from OP

RTB tribunal hearing this morning. As expected tenants didn't turn up so their appeal was struck out and original  determination order will issue in due course.

Waste of half day off work, waste of detective sergeant who turned up, waste of time of 3 board members and stenographer.

No chance of RTB enforcing the order. Cost and chance of success of case against letting agent I have to weight up.

Will probably just cut the €10000 loss and move on...probably sell up

You should have raised a complaint to the president of the RTB Tribunal that the hearing should not have been setup and the appeal immediately rejected if the appelant was not reacheable before the hearing (I have seen it in a few RTB Tribunals reports). In addition many landlords who were gamed by tenants who played the system actually requested the Tribunal to register in the report (which is a public document) exactly what you stated in your post. It would not have helped your case, but if enough lanldords request this and then a single TD is lobbied to take all this evidence to the Oireachtas, maybe the RTB appeal system will be reformed (better still eliminated, appeal should be to a proper court either District or Circuit) to stop the gaming. What is costing a fortune at the moment are the cases that are appealed: they add several months to the process and are actually a very cheap "stays of execution" for the delinquent party! Even a simple rule that says that after the first determination order there cannot be any stay of execution on evictions would massively focus the minds of the delinquent parties.