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Tenant no money to fix work they did

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    #32
    mel123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭mel123


    Realistically though, how are they going to fix it? They have already said they dont have the money.
    Dont get me wrong, i would be livid if this was me, changing wood colours and ruining carpets, in my opinion the only option would be to get rid of them before they are an even worse headache. BUT, i doubt this will be easy, just by the sounds of the tenant.

    Genuine question, how can the tenant rectify the issue? I assume they cant - unless the social welfare steps in because they are a HAP tenant?? Is this possible - i have no experience? So it seems like no matter what, the OP is the loser here.


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    #33
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    Don't forget that with a RAS tenant the council pays the rent - if the RTB states they need to pay it back there might be a way to get the money back through the council. if that's not possible OP. I would go for termination of the tenancy due to various breaches of the tenancy act and the lease.

    The council will not accept liability for the actions of the tenant. The RAS contracts are specifically set up to prevent that from happening. The lease is between the landlord and the tenant and anything that happens with the RTB is agnostic of whether they're a RAS tenant or not.


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    #34
    Kimbot
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,575 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    The council will not accept liability for the actions of the tenant. The RAS contracts are specifically set up to prevent that from happening. The lease is between the landlord and the tenant and anything that happens with the RTB is agnostic of whether they're a RAS tenant or not.

    In this case can the LL take the tenants to Small claims court and recoup the costs?


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    #35
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users Posts: 13,995 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    In this case can the LL take the tenants to Small claims court and recoup the costs?

    There is no real mechanism to recoup money from social welfare participants.


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    #36
    BrokenArrows
    Registered Users Posts: 7,498 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    rawn wrote: »
    Jump the gun much?

    OP i get that what they did was wrong but do they pay rent on time? Is this the only issue you have with them? Are you taking the house back in the near future? As the bad paint job only affects them right now i would tell them that they have to put in writing that the painting will be fixed before they move out, if you're not looking to take the house back now that gives them potentially years to pay for it. And tell them not to do anything else to the house without your express permission in future.

    Are you mad? They have basically ****ed up the house.
    They have painted and then stripped a mahogany staircase causing damage to it. Thats an expensive bit of damage right there.

    As for painting everything without permission and then getting a pet without permission (regardless of the type of pet).

    The tenants have shown that they dont give a **** about the landlord or the house.

    Evict them by the book asap.


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    #37
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »
    The council will not accept liability for the actions of the tenant. The RAS contracts are specifically set up to prevent that from happening. The lease is between the landlord and the tenant and anything that happens with the RTB is agnostic of whether they're a RAS tenant or not.

    In this case can the LL take the tenants to Small claims court and recoup the costs?
    probably. Not much luck there though - if there's no money there's no money. I'd go for termination of tenancy followed by lawfull eviction if they are not leaving. OP, it might be time to take out an insurance against Tenant damage of the house ( if you haven't already done so)- i don't think this is going to end well.


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    #38
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    In this case can the LL take the tenants to Small claims court and recoup the costs?

    No, they would have to go to the RTB followed by the courts. Awards would likely be a small amount from benefits every week, e.g. €5.


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    #39
    spaceHopper
    Registered Users Posts: 3,991 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    As RAS pay the rent can you ask to have somebody from RAS at the mediation or on the phone. The pet is a no issue, they won't damage the house so forget about it, it will only make you look weak/mean for exploiting it.

    Sick to damage done and their lack of cooperation in fixing it and inspections. The main issue here is damage to the staircase, that can't be undone cheaply. After that you would be writing off the cost of carpets against tax and have something in the kitty for painting when they move out anyway, would you let a house with tired paint work to the next tenant?


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    #40
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    probably. Not much luck there though - if there's no money there's no money. I'd go for termination of tenancy followed by lawfull eviction if they are not leaving. OP, it might be time to take out an insurance against Tenant damage of the house ( if you haven't already done so)- i don't think this is going to end well.

    There is no such thing as insurance against tenant damage to house.The only insurance is not to have tenants.


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    #41
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,177 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Very convenient that they could afford paint for the whole house and stairs though..

    To thine own self be true



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    #42
    Ms Doubtfire1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Ms Doubtfire1


    Claw Hammer wrote: »

    There is no such thing as insurance against tenant damage to house.The  only insurance is not to have tenants.

    maybe I found a hole in the market so.:-)


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    #43
    Michael D Not Higgins
    Registered Users Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    spaceHopper wrote: »
    As RAS pay the rent can you ask to have somebody from RAS at the mediation or on the phone. The pet is a no issue, they won't damage the house so forget about it, it will only make you look weak/mean for exploiting it.

    Sick to damage done and their lack of cooperation in fixing it and inspections. The main issue here is damage to the staircase, that can't be undone cheaply. After that you would be writing off the cost of carpets against tax and have something in the kitty for painting when they move out anyway, would you let a house with tired paint work to the next tenant?

    http://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/social-housing/rental-accommodation-scheme/rental-accommodation-scheme-information-tenants

    'The local authority will be party to this agreement as guarantor of the rent.'

    'The main "landlord and tenant" relationship remains between the property owner and the RAS tenant. The local authority acts as agent on behalf of the tenant.'

    The local authority's input stops at paying the rent. They do not have any input into tenant-landlord disputes. They will not take part in any mediation or other action before the RTB.


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    #44
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    O.P. I'd be happy to give up on the " small lizard in a tank", as a sign of reasonableness... But assert no other pets/ cat, dogs etc...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #45
    Zillah
    Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    Purple Mountain wrote: »
    Very convenient that they could afford paint for the whole house and stairs though..

    Maybe Tommy got his hands on a few tins of paint without asking where they came from?


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    #46
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    listermint wrote: »
    Poor Tenant, But tbf to them Mahogany Staircases are gank so can forgive that much :) probably not the shody work they made of it.

    That's your opinion ;)


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    #47
    mandy2012
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭mandy2012


    Hi

    Yes I can see that white staircase is modern and probably looks nicer but in a rental property its just not practical especially where tenant isn't really keeping house clean anyway.

    The pet I would give in on as its the kids pet and I'm a softie.

    RAS didn't entertain me at all. I didn't hear from them until the tenant phoned them and then they even called out to the house to speak to the tenant. They have now said nothing to do with them as RTB now involved.

    I praying that the RTB will see our side.


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    #48
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    rawn wrote: »
    Jump the gun much?

    OP i get that what they did was wrong but do they pay rent on time? Is this the only issue you have with them? Are you taking the house back in the near future? As the bad paint job only affects them right now i would tell them that they have to put in writing that the painting will be fixed before they move out, if you're not looking to take the house back now that gives them potentially years to pay for it. And tell them not to do anything else to the house without your express permission in future.

    Are you for real ?

    Sounds like something out of Pacific Heights and yet the tenant doesnt know what the problem is and are dictating the pet stays. Not their property of course so they have no respect.

    Get rid OP and start the ball rolling soon.


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    #49
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    STB. wrote:
    Get rid OP and start the ball rolling soon.


    Which ground should the OP evict on? I'm not defending the tenant whatsoever, i firmly believe they should fix the damage out of their own pocket. But what other posters are advising here will cost the OP a lot more in the long run!

    The grounds for eviction are:

    LL selling
    LL/family member moving home
    Non-payment of rent
    Antisocial behavior
    End of Part IV rights

    Which is the tenant in breach of? And if the OP chooses to evict over the damage, the tenants will sue for wrongful eviction, she most likely win, seeing as they're already on to the RTB about the big bad landlord.

    Mediation hasn't taken place yet. See how that goes and take it from there.


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    #50
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    A tenancy can be terminated by the landlord if the tenant fails to comply with the "obligations of the tenancy". The OP will need to prove that painting the staircase was a breach of the obligations.


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    #51
    rawn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    dudara wrote:
    A tenancy can be terminated by the landlord if the tenant fails to comply with the "obligations of the tenancy". The OP will need to prove that painting the staircase was a breach of the obligations.


    But in an anti-LL court case, would the RTB side with the tenant or the LL, regardless of what it says in the lease? The RTB don't want to evict SW tenants. They'll be straight to the papers.


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    #52
    Johngoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Johngoose


    These are the kind of rent allowance tenants that give the others a bad name.


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    #53
    Galadriel
    Registered Users Posts: 1,289 ✭✭✭Galadriel


    Skyla Ashy Graph wrote: »
    Hmm, now that you say it's a lizard in a cage, I personally wouldn't have any issues with it at all.

    It's not a cat or dog which sheds hairs and can damage property. Regardless, your house, your rules.

    Whatever you do OP, make sure you do it by the book.

    Yeah a lizard wouldn't bother me at all, what damage do you think a lizard in a cage can do OP? now if it was a cat or dog......


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    #54
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    rawn wrote: »
    But in an anti-LL court case, would the RTB side with the tenant or the LL, regardless of what it says in the lease? The RTB don't want to evict SW tenants. They'll be straight to the papers.

    A tenant can be got out for causing damage and failing to rectify it. The RTB will go with the Landlord if the case is made out.

    https://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/tribunal-reports/tr1016-002018-dr0816-28445-report.pdf?sfvrsn=0


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mandy2012 wrote: »
    Hi

    Yes I can see that white staircase is modern and probably looks nicer but in a rental property its just not practical especially where tenant isn't really keeping house clean anyway.

    The pet I would give in on as its the kids pet and I'm a softie.

    RAS didn't entertain me at all. I didn't hear from them until the tenant phoned them and then they even called out to the house to speak to the tenant. They have now said nothing to do with them as RTB now involved.

    I praying that the RTB will see our side.

    I would use everything you can to build a case including breaching the lease in regards to pets. The more ammo you have the better chance you have of succeeding in the eviction.


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    #56
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »
    maybe I found a hole in the market so.:-)

    Nope you didn't- there are at least 7 companies licensed to offer this insurance in the Irish market- none do however. 123.ie even had an advertisement done up for landlords- before they chose to yank it. There is a damn good reason this insurance is not offered on the Irish market- its not viable in the current regulatory regime (unlike the UK, France, Germany and elsewhere).


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    #57
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    rawn wrote: »
    But in an anti-LL court case, would the RTB side with the tenant or the LL, regardless of what it says in the lease? The RTB don't want to evict SW tenants. They'll be straight to the papers.

    The RTB's remit is to regulate the industry- they are supposed to be agnostic towards tenants and landlords. If the landlord takes a case against the tenant- it is assessed on the merit of the case they take- not the tenant's circumstances.

    For the record- the stairs could very well be the most expensive element of all of this- I'm not sure if you have priced a mahogony stairs anytime recently- its probably the most expensive stairs you can have. I was recently told of the thousands I could save by going with Walnut instead.........

    Between the repaint- and the stairs- its entirely possible you're looking at a bill of over 10k to restore to previous condition (and you've the carpet and goodness knows what else to add to the bill too).


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    #58
    Freindly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭Freindly


    Some of the advice on this forum from non-LLs is just so bad.

    Get them out legally and as quickly as you can OP. Every week is another week where they can cause €€€s worth of damage to your property. They haven't shown respect to your property, you aren't jumping the gun by putting your own interests first. There is no justifying them making such sloppy modifications on a house they don't own. You are not a charity, don't let them cost you any more money.

    Don't make the same mistake when choosing your next tenants.


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