Catalonia - an Indpendent Republic?

Witchie

So just finished watching Carles Puigdemont making his speech and wonder how things will pan out now.

Will Spain enter negotiations? Will the EU recognise them if they do continue to pursue independence?

Interesting times ahead.

PARlance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bL0EqlDEk

Witchie

PARlance wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bL0EqlDEk

Choooooon.

But anyhoo.

PARlance

Witchie wrote: »

Choooooon.

But anyhoo.

I predict lots of street protests / road rage

enda1

Schroedinger's independence

CalamariFritti

At least that should see further escalation avoided for now. That has to be good.

Atoms for Peace

Leo is set to revive the blueshirts so they can go over and sort out those anarcho/commies just like they did in the thirties. :pac:

The_Valeyard

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Leo is set to revive the blueshirts so they can go over and sort out those anarcho/commies just like they did in the thirties. :pac:

And we have another ex Garda commissioner we can send over.

dan1895

This is big news lately. It's all over the front page.

Tuco88

Viva la revolutionaaa... fire cracker...

Well, if England Britain can break away from the EU I don't see why Catalonia cannot break away from Spain...or Scotland from England...or Northern Ireland from England....

Thank you, Nigel, Boris and decades of the Tory press. And I'm going to buy a whole popcorn factory to watch all of them react to Scotland and the Six Counties "taking back control" from Perfidious Albion. Filleann an feall ar an bhfeallaire.


The fact that the English are now commonly being described as "nationalists" is a great, great step forward: for centuries, everybody else/weaker groups were the "nationalists". A sure, albeit little remarked, sign that power has changed. By the terms they use, and are used about them, shall you know their power.

Kermit.de.frog

BREAKING: CALTALAN LEADER DECLARES INDEPENDENCE


30 seconds later - SUSPENDS INDEPENDENCE

BattleCorp

Quick question.

If Catalonia declare independence, what do they use for money? They wouldn't be part of the Euro. In the short term, they would be fcuked.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

BattleCorp wrote: »

Quick question.

If Catalonia declare independence, what do they use for money? They wouldn't be part of the Euro. In the short term, they would be fcuked.

Andorra uses the Euro, so does Montenegro. I see no reason why an independent Catalonia can’t.

enda1

BattleCorp wrote: »

Quick question.

If Catalonia declare independence, what do they use for money? They wouldn't be part of the Euro. In the short term, they would be fcuked.

Sure they will continue to use the Euro, sure why wouldn't they?

BattleCorp

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Andorra uses the Euro, so does Montenegro. I see no reason why an independent Catalonia can’t.

enda1 wrote: »

Sure they will continue to use the Euro, sure why wouldn't they?

It's not quite as simple as this.

They would need permission from the EU to use the Euro. And the EU require certain criteria before they will allow countries to use the Euro.

Several European microstates outside the EU have adopted the euro as their currency. For EU sanctioning of this adoption, a monetary agreement must be concluded. Prior to the launch of the euro, agreements were reached with Monaco, San Marino, and Vatican City by EU member states (Italy in the case of San Marino and Vatican City, and France in the case of Monaco) allowing them to use the euro and mint a limited amount of euro coins (with their own national symbols on the obverse side) to be valid throughout the Eurozone. However, they cannot print banknotes.

enda1

BattleCorp wrote: »

It's not quite as simple as this.

They would need permission from the EU to use the Euro. And the EU require certain criteria before they will allow countries to use the Euro.

You don't need anyone's permission to use any currency as a de facto currency. Look a the use of the USD globally. The Euro in the Balkans is used without any Eurozone approval.

BattleCorp

enda1 wrote: »

You don't need anyone's permission to use any currency as a de facto currency. Look a the use of the USD globally. The Euro in the Balkans is used without any Eurozone approval.

Fair point.

Hector Savage

It's never gonna happen.
Spain won't recognize it.
The EU won't recognize it.

sjb25

Mariano Rajoys response to The Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont this morning

Bob24

enda1 wrote: »

You don't need anyone's permission to use any currency as a de facto currency. Look a the use of the USD globally. The Euro in the Balkans is used without any Eurozone approval.

Yes. Obviously they would not be part of EZ governance structures though. So it could only be a stopgap measure until either they setup their own currency or manage to join the EZ (unlikely), as becoming an independent state but having zero control on the currency they use would be a bit of a contradiction (control/influence on your monetary policy is an important part of sovereignty).

Bob24

So the Spanish government has officially asked the Catalan one to clarify whether it proclamed independence or not.

It’s almost like a farce!

(But I get what Rajoy is trying to do: force Puigdemont to either clearly say yes in which case the autonomy of the region will be immediately suspended, or clearly say no which means he’s done politically and the independence project takes a big hit)

LordSutch

No, ain't going to happen.

Madrid will not allow it, & it just can't happen (by force) in the modern era. Gone are the days when a minority can force an issue by means of the threat of mayhem/civil disobedience on the streets.

Independence can only be declared if you have a majority in favour, and in the case of Catalonia, Scotland, N.Ireland those separatist majorities do not currently exist.

Violence as a means to separation (from the rest of the UK) was tried in NI but failed miserably. Ballot box is the only way, and even then, its no good if half the population don't vote (as in the case of the illegitimate Catalan vote).

BattleCorp

LordSutch wrote: »

Independence can only be declared if you have a majority in favour, and in the case of Catalonia, Scotland, N.Ireland those separatist majorities do not currently exist.

Here's the thing. We don't know that the majority of those in Catalonia don't want independence because Spain won't allow a proper vote to take place.

Maybe the majority do want independence, but unless Spain relent and allow a vote on the issue, then we are stuck not knowing.

Kermit.de.frog

tomwaterford

BattleCorp wrote: »

Here's the thing. We don't know that the majority of those in Catalonia don't want independence because Spain won't allow a proper vote to take place.

Maybe the majority do want independence, but unless Spain relent and allow a vote on the issue, then we are stuck not knowing.

This is it....everything every time suggests catalonia wants independence....but the politians time and again refuse them the opportunity to democratically achieve it....surly the only option left is violence??


Though I see the kurds are pushing hard for declaring a state in northern Iraq, this will surly leave alot of hard questions asked as they stopped and stood upto isis,when noone else would and I hope they get it without outside interference trying to stop them....

They were unbelievably brave,when noone else would

Bob24

Thing is Spain doesn’t owe Catalonia a referendum (not more than Ireland would owe one to Cork if the idea was to emerge, Belgium would owe one to Flanders, etc).

Breaking-up a country is messy by nature and there probably are very few exemples of it happening following a peaceful referendum on which everyone agrees and with no civils war or violence.

Having said that Catalans don’t exactly compare to Kurds as in they are absolutely not an oppressed nation.

DEFTLEFTHAND

LordSutch wrote: »

No, ain't going to happen.

Madrid will not allow it, & it just can't happen (by force) in the modern era. Gone are the days when a minority can force an issue by means of the threat of mayhem/civil disobedience on the streets.

Independence can only be declared if you have a majority in favour, and in the case of Catalonia, Scotland, N.Ireland those separatist majorities do not currently exist.

Violence as a means to separation (from the rest of the UK) was tried in NI but failed miserably. Ballot box is the only way, and even then, its no good if half the population don't vote (as in the case of the illegitimate Catalan vote).

Very well put.

Donald Trump

Bob24 wrote: »

Thing is Spain doesn’t owe Catalonia a referendum (not more than Ireland would owe one to Cork of the idea was to emerge, Belgium would owe one to Flanders, etc).

Hmmm. I like your suggestion. Can the rest of us not just have a referendum to kick the Cork feckers out?

Donald Trump

Does anyone have a cat called Alan?

Gunmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

The fact that the English are now commonly being described as "nationalists" is a great, great step forward: for centuries, everybody else/weaker groups were the "nationalists". A sure, albeit little remarked, sign that power has changed. By the terms they use, and are used about them, shall you know their power.

That's because there are two types of Nationalists, according to the Brits:

foreign nations "Nationalists" and British "Nationalists"

Kermit.de.frog

Give them all independence I say.