Hey Leo? Why do I bother getting up in the morning?

pilly

spoonerhead wrote: »

What is the incentive to work? A welfare family beside me gets €80 extra a month, then over €100 at Christmas. When my working family juggles minding a sick woman, paying a mortgage and saving for Christmas ourselves. That €5 extra carers allowance is an insult as looking after anyone with a disability or mature citizen is a full time job on top of working 38 hours.

Carers got the same as everyone else in the budget, not sure what your complaint is about? They also get the Christmas bonus?

Wheeliebin30

BillyBobBS wrote: »

There was poster on here a few weeks back who droned on about those in social housing, those on welfare and those who hadn't worked in years. Poster was convinced Varadkar was some sort of demigod that was going to change everything and all of a sudden those on welfare would be put to work sweeping roads, cleaning gullies etc...

Called him/her out on it and told them Varadkar was first and foremost a politician and all he was interested in is the next election and staying in power and couldn't give a hoot about the "early risers".

If he had any balls and actually wanted to help those of us who have worked the last few years through the recession keeping the country afloat whilst not seeing a cent of a pay rise then he would have decreased welfare and reduced USC for those working by a greater margin.

It is simply sickening to see the likes of myself better off by 1 euro a week whilst those on welfare are seeing 5 times that and an Xmas bonus for doing the grand total of dick.

FG are no different than FF, all of them are bent and have their own backs first. Shame on them all.

You're full of absolute ****.

You were on a different thread only last week sympathising with someone on the dole struggling saying you hope it gets easier soon.

Now they get something extra and you're in here slating people on the dole and saying they do a grand total of dick.

You have been found out.

Whatever way the wind blows to further your personal political beliefs.

angryIreGamer

__..__ wrote: »

I was brought up to earn my money. I couldn't possibly quit my job to take handouts. It's not in me.

looks like we figured out why you bother getting up in the morning.



Glad to have helped.

Wheeliebin30

angryIreGamer wrote: »

looks like we figured out why you bother getting up in the morning.



Glad to have helped.

__..__

angryIreGamer wrote: »

looks like we figured out why you bother getting up in the morning.



Glad to have helped.

Thanks Leo

angryIreGamer

__..__ wrote: »

Thanks Leo

its Andy, and no bother.

BillyBobBS

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

You're full of absolute ****.

You were on a different thread only last week sympathising with someone on the dole struggling saying you hope it gets easier soon.

Now they get something extra and you're in here slating people on the dole and saying they do a grand total of dick.

You have been found out.

Whatever way the wind blows to further your personal political beliefs.

Ah wheelie you had to go and put your foot in it again. Context is everything but of course we already know that. Bless.

Wheeliebin30

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Ah wheelie you had to go and put your foot in it again. Context is everything but of course we already know that. Bless.

Yeah whatever.

Spoofer is all you are.

I have numerous posts of yours here where you feel nothing but sympathy for people on the dole.

Fast forward to this thread and they are people who do a grand total of dick.

Whatever way the wind blows ay..

BillyBobBS

737max wrote: »

Leo is supported in his minority government by Fianna Fail.
Fianna Fail directed/dictated the 2/3 spending 1/3 taxation split.

Leo is now Taoiseach but finds that he is still taking orders from others. This is the legacy of Enda Kenny and Noonan staying on when the new FG leader should have been going in to the election presenting a new policy outlook. Enda the Chairman Statesman left his successor crippled.

Only good thing about this budget is that even though FF will try to take the credit for it with those who don't get out of bed in the morning FG will receive most of the credit as it was Paschal and Leo who delivered the budget.

The Developers win big out of this as well but they have had the upper hand anyhow due to the state the last leadership left the property market in. Thanks again Enda. There is no coercion there, the Developers have to be coaxed to build and that costs big wealth transfer from the public to the developers.

Go on out of that. Varadkar is the leader of this country so please stop attempting to blame Enda Kenny for this guys shortcomings. Varadkar has been badly exposed by this budget and imo from this day on is a dead man walking in terms of his political career.

Of the top of my head he's made two massive gaffs, the early risers and the not one red cent quote. He's not that bright tbh.

BillyBobBS

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yeah whatever.

Spoofer is all you are.

I have numerous posts of yours here where you feel nothing but sympathy for people on the dole.

Fast forward to this thread and they are people who do a grand total of dick.

Whatever way the wind blows ay..

Please quote them.

__..__

angryIreGamer wrote: »

its Andy, and no bother.

Pretty sure it's Leo.
But whatever you say.

737max

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Go on out of that. Varadkar is the leader of this country so please stop attempting to blame Enda Kenny for this guys shortcomings. Varadkar has been badly exposed by this budget and imo from this day on is a dead man walking in terms of his political career.

Of the top of my head he's made two massive gaffs, the early risers and the not one red cent quote. He's not that bright tbh.

Varadkar only holds the title of Taoiseach so long as the confidence and supply agreement holds.
Once again...thanks Enda.

Wheeliebin30

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Please quote them.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057791748/12/#post104834318

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057791748/9/#post104817090

2 to start with.

__..__

Gotta go back to work. Be back later to see how the Leo is going. Don't let the thread die while im out working now

BillyBobBS

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057791748/12/#post104834318

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057791748/9/#post104817090

2 to start with.

Thanks for proving my point. Intelligence isn't a strong trait for you i see

BillyBobBS

__..__ wrote: »

Gotta go back to work. Be back later to see how the Leo is going. Don't let the thread die while im out working now

Leo will be in his office with his spin/PR team instead of addressing workers issues.

Widdershins

RE: Post about carers allowance. Caring is a fulltime job so their benefit is paid to them for doing something. Maybe they should be paid something closer to an actual wage . A jobseeker allowance claimant probably has prospects for future employment too, a lot of carers are effectively out of a career for life.

tomwaterford

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Yeah whatever.

Spoofer is all you are.

.

Says someone who thinks homelessness and poverty is a myth?

BillyBobBS

tomwaterford wrote: »

Says someone who thinks homelessness and poverty is a myth?

The first mistake you make is taking wheelie seriously. Iv'e done it i few times im embarrassed to say

Wheeliebin30

BillyBobBS wrote: »

The first mistake you make is taking wheelie seriously. Iv'e done it i few times im embarrassed to say

Are you actually denying you are sympathetic in those posts then slating people on the dole in this one?

The evidence is there.

You're a hypocrite . You were caught out.

All you can do now is have a go at my intelligence.

Guy:Incognito

seamus wrote: »

When someone cuts up a cake, I just take a slice and am happy with that. I don't look at someone else's slice and whinge that they got a tiny bit more than I did.

What if you're the one buying the cake every week?

aidan24326

BillyBobBS wrote: »

It is simply sickening to see the likes of myself better off by 1 euro a week whilst those on welfare are seeing 5 times that and an Xmas bonus for doing the grand total of dick.

And you assume that everyone on the dole is happy to be doing 'the grand total of dick'? We all know there are scroungers who are happy to take every handout they can get, but there are also genuine people who are out of work but very much want a job. Plenty of them.

I was one of those people for a while during the recession and I can assure you that the dole queue becomes a very demoralising situation after a while, it sucks the life out of you. A fiver per week increase is hardly going to incentivise anyone to stay unemployed unless they have no intention of working anyway.*

*and I agree that those people who have done nothing but claim benefits for years should be under scrutiny.

Wheeliebin30

Two quotes from BillyBobBS.


"Great attitude and the way to view it. It's a small percentage of people who scam the welfare most are decent people who just want a decent paying job.

I laugh at the usual suspects on here getting their knickers in a twist over some lazy fecker who drinks Dutch Gold and has a crap life "



"It is simply sickening to see the likes of myself better off by 1 euro a week whilst those on welfare are seeing 5 times that and an Xmas bonus for doing the grand total of dick"

Are you actually telling me these don't contradict eachother?

You actually say you laugh at the usual suspects getting their knickers in a twist over people on the dole.

Then you rant saying it's sickening looking at people on the dole getting money for doing a grand total of dick.

You are a hypocrite, no 2 ways about it.

pilly

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Two quotes from BillyBobBS.


"Great attitude and the way to view it. It's a small percentage of people who scam the welfare most are decent people who just want a decent paying job.

I laugh at the usual suspects on here getting their knickers in a twist over some lazy fecker who drinks Dutch Gold and has a crap life "



"It is simply sickening to see the likes of myself better off by 1 euro a week whilst those on welfare are seeing 5 times that and an Xmas bonus for doing the grand total of dick"

Are you actually telling me these don't contradict eachother?

You actually say you laugh at the usual suspects getting their knickers in a twist over people on the dole.

Then you rant saying it's sickening looking at people on the dole getting money for doing a grand total of dick.

You are a hypocrite, no 2 ways about it.

I very rarely agree with Wheelie but on this I do. You can't play both sides Billybob.

seamus

server down wrote: »

If you’ve done very well you’re not the squeezed middle and have done better than welfare.

Oh I'd be squeezed middle alright.

You measure how well you are doing/have done by your personal circumstances, not by what others have gotten.

You could give someone on social welfare an extra €1,000 a year and they will probably still be a worse situation than someone in the squeezed middle.

As usual, the conversation is dominated by people fighting over the tiny scraps being thrown down the table rather than looking at how much extra food was piled onto the plates at the top of the table.

737max

Only way that I see Leo tackling long term unemployed workshy is to introduce more of the nagging schemes like Jobpath but in the process his government will antagonize a lot of unemployed who are genuinely looking for work.
I think it is all they can do because it isn't seen as budgeted "policy" which can be attacked by the opposition.

Sleeper12

Widdershins wrote:

RE: Post about carers allowance. Caring is a fulltime job so their benefit is paid to them for doing something. Maybe they should be paid something closer to an actual wage . A jobseeker allowance claimant probably has prospects for future employment too, a lot of carers are effectively out of a career for life.

Don't forget to say that you also save the state money by caring for a family member.

Heard on the radio yesterday that in the states they would train you to be a nurse assistant. Then the state pays a private company to employ you to care for your family member. You even get a pension! You are in full time employment this way. Obviously this is better for your moral and you feel valued rather than here where people make out that you are scrounging from the state. Banks won't loan you money if on careers allowance but they will in the states because they are officially employed.

pilly

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Don't forget to say that you also save the state money by caring for a family member.

Heard on the radio yesterday that in the states they would train you to be a nurse assistant. Then the state pays a private company to employ you to care for your family member. You even get a pension! You are in full time employment this way. Obviously this is better for your moral and you feel valued rather than here where people make out that you are scrounging from the state. Banks won't loan you money if on careers allowance but they will in the states because they are officially employed.

I've never understood this train of thought.

I've the utmost of respect for carers, I looked after my own mother for a year but I don't see it as saving the state money.

If you see it that way that means that we should all be dumping our elderly parents at the doors of hospitals? If someone is your family it's your duty to look after them.

It's just like saying mothers are saving the state a fortune if they stay at home. That's not how it works.

rustynutz

I'm disappointed by the budget, but not surprized. Aa already said earlier in this thread, the reason we, the squeezed middle, are always targeted is because we don't have time to protest, as we have jobs. If the cut social welfare those in it would protest in their droves, just like the pensioners did years ago.

And there isn't a homeless crisis in Ireland, there are thousands of vacant properties all around the country, let those on social welfare who can't find accommodation in Dublin move out of the city, just like a lot of young workers have had to, because they can't afford it. At least that might free up some houses in the city for people who want to live, and WORK, in Dublin.

What possible reason have we got for housing long term dole recipients in any city? Its not like they need to be close to their job, or like they have to rely on being close to family to babysit while they work.

I genuinely don't understand why the government rewards those in society that contribute nothing. And I don't actually blame those claiming social welfare, the system has created a trap where it isn't worth their while working, which has just been made worse by this budget.

minikin

__..__ wrote: »

Hey Leo?
Why the fcukndonI bother getting up in the morning. People who don't get up get more than me in the budget.
Well?
Leo?
Are you even up yet Leo?

You're asking why do you bother not being the people you're giving off about?

eviltwin

pilly wrote: »

I've never understood this train of thought.

I've the utmost of respect for carers, I looked after my own mother for a year but I don't see it as saving the state money.

If you see it that way that means that we should all be dumping our elderly parents at the doors of hospitals? If someone is your family it's your duty to look after them.

It's just like saying mothers are saving the state a fortune if they stay at home. That's not how it works.

No its not your duty to become a carer to someone you happen to be related to. I wouldn't do it for my parent and I wouldn't expect my kids to do it for me.

pilly

eviltwin wrote: »

No its not your duty to become a carer to someone you happen to be related to. I wouldn't do it for my parent and I wouldn't expect my kids to do it for me.

That's nice.

eviltwin

pilly wrote: »

That's nice.

I'm not going to sacrifice my income to care for someone I don't have a relationship with just because we share DNA. I have my own family to think of and their needs come first. Leaving my job to survive on a carers allowance would be irresponsible.

Wheeliebin30

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm not going to sacrifice my income to care for someone I don't have a relationship with just because we share DNA. I have my own family to think of and their needs come first. Leaving my job to survive on a carers allowance would be irresponsible.

Jaysus I love boards!

pilly

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm not going to sacrifice my income to care for someone I don't have a relationship with just because we share DNA. I have my own family to think of and their needs come first. Leaving my job to survive on a carers allowance would be irresponsible.

You didn't specify that you didn't have a relationship with the person. That's a different scenario.

Sleeper12

pilly wrote: »

I've never understood this train of thought.

I've the utmost of respect for carers, I looked after my own mother for a year but I don't see it as saving the state money.

If you see it that way that means that we should all be dumping our elderly parents at the doors of hospitals? If someone is your family it's your duty to look after them.

It's just like saying mothers are saving the state a fortune if they stay at home. That's not how it works.

I agree with you but people are also entitled to the careers allowance. Many give up a full time job to care for a family member & they should be paid for this.

Some people / posters only seem to see what something costs the state. Some see careers getting money for nothing. I was suggesting to the poster that careers save the state money. They do. There's very few would do it just for the allowance. I'm sure it's usually out of duty or/& love

eviltwin

pilly wrote: »

You didn't specify that you didn't have a relationship with the person. That's a different scenario.

Even if we had a relationship I still wouldn't do it. My own family comes first. I'd be screwed financially if I was only on a carers allowance, so would most people.

Widdershins

pilly wrote: »

I've never understood this train of thought.

I've the utmost of respect for carers, I looked after my own mother for a year but I don't see it as saving the state money.

If you see it that way that means that we should all be dumping our elderly parents at the doors of hospitals? If someone is your family it's your duty to look after them.

It's just like saying mothers are saving the state a fortune if they stay at home. That's not how it works.

I have very mixed feelings about this. In a way I agree with you. Its a moral duty and what most would want to do I think, to care for a child or parent just as they would do anyway, but what about their moral duty to financially provide for them? They can't do both? And to provide for themself and other children or a partner.

Also, what about when they have very much greater needs, maybe medical needs, that is above and beyond what most parents or grown up children can physically and emotionally cope with. The state has a system of supporting people with additional needs just as it has the social welfare system. If there's no carer then the state would have to step in. Just as they do with social workers when a young person goes delinquent.

Parents have a moral and I think a legal duty (I think I read that here, but unsure) to educate their children but they farm the duty out to the state. Why is that different to caring duties?

PeterParker957

I have no problem supporting my family.

It's supporting everyone else's because they can't be arsed is where I draw the line.

pilly

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree with you but people are also entitled to the careers allowance. Many give up a full time job to care for a family member & they should be paid for this.

Some people / posters only seem to see what something costs the state. Some see careers getting money for nothing. I was suggesting to the poster that careers save the state money. They do. There's very few would do it just for the allowance. I'm sure it's usually out of duty or/& love

I never said people shouldn't be entitled to carers allowance, of course they should.

And I've never seen anyone on boards say people on carers get money for nothing. The usual ranters on here tbf are talking about unemployed people.

I don't class carers as unemployed.

server down

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I agree with you but people are also entitled to the careers allowance. Many give up a full time job to care for a family member & they should be paid for this.

Some people / posters only seem to see what something costs the state. Some see careers getting money for nothing. I was suggesting to the poster that careers save the state money. They do. There's very few would do it just for the allowance. I'm sure it's usually out of duty or/& love

carers should get a wage, yes. They save the State money.

Sleeper12

pilly wrote: »

I never said people shouldn't be entitled to carers allowance, of course they should.

And I've never seen anyone on boards say people on carers get money for nothing. The usual ranters on here tbf are talking about unemployed people.

I don't class carers as unemployed.

I never said you did say it.

I think we're both getting our wires crossed

PeterParker957

Can someone confirm or correct me ? If you are a carer you only get the 1200 quid allowance but nothing else ? Seems a little unfair.

As I posted in Politics:
I was in college/on the dole for a number of years, living with the parents and had a holiday roughly every 3 years. Since I started working less 2 years ago I've paid off a few grand of debt, moved into a nice apartment with a mate, bought a car and saved a few grand and that's on not much more than minimum wage. And it's also funny that I can think of a good dozen people I know who were on the dole til a couple of years ago who have since got jobs and not one of them has decided to say "Actually, nah, I preferred the dole life.".

Jawgap

Deleted User wrote: »

As I posted in Politics:
I was in college/on the dole for a number of years, living with the parents and had a holiday roughly every 3 years. Since I started working less 2 years ago I've paid off a few grand of debt, moved into a nice apartment with a mate, bought a car and saved a few grand and that's on not much more than minimum wage. And it's also funny that I can think of a good dozen people I know who were on the dole til a couple of years ago who have since got jobs and not one of them has decided to say "Actually, nah, I preferred the dole life.".

Fair play to you, and your mates.....and yes if you are single with no attachments then working is a good option and I think the budget should have rewarded it more and been much more generous to people on lower incomes.

However, if you've a couple of kids, then the 'dole life' can make a certain economic sense. I know a couple of families and it's not like the parents are work-shy but their 'preference' is social welfare supplemtmented with a few nixers - in one couple he's a plumber and she's a hairdresser (she works from her house or travels to yours) - it's that type of arrangement the tax and social welfare systems need to be targeting to encourage people to work by rewarding them for their efforts, instead of penalising them.

kittensmittens

eviltwin wrote: »

Even if we had a relationship I still wouldn't do it. My own family comes first. I'd be screwed financially if I was only on a carers allowance, so would most people.

What about if it was your child you had to go on carers allowance for and not your parent?? You wouldnt have the luxury of a choice in that scenario of getting financially screwed.....you would just BE financially screwed and have to suck it up.

Not to into too much detail but a person I was friendlyish with had a great job, well paying career...great social life etc. Had issues with dole scroungers.

The child had a brain tumour at 10 and a stroke from it. BOOM!! Full time carer.

ionapaul

Do people think that this budget will lower support for FG if an election occurs next year? I wouldn't be so sure, it seems most of the people most outraged would never vote for them full stop, so nothing changes there. I agree with everyone who points out that the €5 extra per week folk probably weren't ever going to vote for them either, am guessing that a measure forced through by FF who'll take credit at election time in order to cut the legs out from under the 'won't pay for anything' crowd and SF.

myshirt

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You seem to have that in common.
Any wealth you may have accrued during your lifetime was already taxed to the hilt - the money you earned was taxed, any stuff you bought with your taxed money was taxed again, if you took your taxed money and invested it - any profits you made were taxed, if you just stuck it in the bank the interest was taxed.
Tax, tax and more tax - yet you reckon it's only right and proper to tax it again should you be lucky enough to die!
And this is for what reason exactly?
To avoid the scourge of hard working parents passing on what little the tax man has left them with, so that their kids might not have it so hard?

Ah come off it, that's the same boiler plate boohoo story trotted out all the time.

The reality is there is a lot of unearned wealth in this country that emerged from direct government intervention. Government intervention to benefit one section of society but to lump the next section with the bill.

If all your wealth was down to your own effort and self efficacy then a man in the back arse of Timbuktu could be a billionaire by sheer discipline and will alone.

The reality is much different. Fiscal policy choices affect people's lives.

As applies to Ireland, such is the extent of the government intervention that directly benefited one generation and burdened another, it is only right that that generation be taxed to redress the balance. Baby boomers and early gen'x'ers lived in a fantasy land that they could afford all this, and an illusion that it was all them and their own hard work. It wasn't. If you understand economics you get that.

Remember, there is no one taking the bread off your table here. It's unearned wealth that I am proposing be taxed so you don't pass that on to your kids but have all his peers pay the bill. No. Tax it, and ring fence it for those at socioeconomic disadvantage to redress inequality and allow those participating in our economy to compete on a level footing.

Jawgap

ionapaul wrote: »

Do people think that this budget will lower support for FG if an election occurs next year? I wouldn't be so sure, it seems most of the people most outraged would never vote for them full stop, so nothing changes there. I agree with everyone who points out that the €5 extra per week folk probably weren't ever going to vote for them either, am guessing that a measure forced through by FF who'll take credit at election time in order to cut the legs out from under the 'won't pay for anything' crowd and SF.

Not in the least.....there's a lot of stuff in there that'll indirectly help OAPs and that won't do them any harm.

Plus they know FF are committed to support another budget so they can hold off on this one, then make next year a bit of a beano budget in anticipation of an election.

eviltwin

kittensmittens wrote: »

What about if it was your child you had to go on carers allowance for and not your parent?? You wouldnt have the luxury of a choice in that scenario of getting financially screwed.....you would just BE financially screwed and have to suck it up.

Not to into too much detail but a person I was friendlyish with had a great job, well paying career...great social life etc. Had issues with dole scroungers.

The child had a brain tumour at 10 and a stroke from it. BOOM!! Full time carer.

Been there already. My youngest has special needs and I didn't work for three years to care for him. We didn't qualify for carers allowance so took a huge hit. But I have a duty of care to my children so I was happy to do it.