Hey Leo? Why do I bother getting up in the morning?

Inspector Coptoor

€6.25 per week extra for me and around the same for the wife.

Nothing worth getting excited over

lawred2

Donal55 wrote: »

Rick Shaw wrote: »

I'm fairly left of centre but even I know this is a kick in the gonads to the working man and woman.

Why the fook should the people on the dole who don't have to worry about targets, quotas, competitors, courses, customers, lunches, not seeing the kids most of the week, setting the alarm clock, working bloody hard etc etc etc. Get the same monthly amount for doing diddly squat?

I could see through it if the lads were pandering to vote grab, but I doubt they will see a return in their vote share from their investment.

Leo spoofed to the country with his get up early in the morning spiel.

Leo couldn't win over the members of his own party and also made a cock up of Health and Transport when he was in those Depts also.

Anyone, who believes or believed the soundbites from Leo, really do need their head examined.

There were very few plaudits from the government backbenches when Paschal retook his seat after delivering the budget.

I don't think that this was a FG budget. Leo is going to be under pressure internally now. Can't see him lasting too long.

Wanderer78

lawred2 wrote: »

There were very few plaudits from the government backbenches when Paschal retook his seat after delivering the budget.

I don't think that this was a FG budget. Leo is going to be under pressure internally now. Can't see him lasting too long.

he ll be grand

McMurphy

Wanderer78 wrote: »

he ll be grand

You can say that again.

How many pensions is he in line for now?

_Kaiser_

lawred2 wrote: »

Leo is going to be under pressure internally now. Can't see him lasting too long.

I really find it amazing that people are surprised Leo didn't deliver.

Think back to his time as a Minister under Enda... what exactly did he achieve, yet he was always on the telly/radio with a soundbite - usually about someone else's brief.

Look at him now.. all over social media, making good-sounding speeches everywhere, but what substance is behind it?

It's spin and PR.. nothing more. Leo is all about his own profile - I realised this when he came out during the SSM referendum. I personally don't give a toss about his sexuality but he capitalised on it for maximum political effect.

Result? He's the favourite to succeed Enda and much is made of how he's Ireland's first mixed-race gay leader.. again, so bloody what! What has that to do with his suitability for Taoiseach?

Then he gets the top job, faces his first real test in the Budget and we see (yet again) the reality.... he talks a good game, but there's nothing at all behind it.

Looking after the working man indeed! Yesterday's budget is an INSULT to the working man (and woman!)

qwerty ui op

server down wrote: »

Houses aren’t bigger. They are smaller. The number of people who enter a building have no effect on the buildings size.

But the number living in a house, does have an effect on quality of life and from my day to day experience regular people from all generations move up to more spacious homes.

server down wrote: »

Deflection from the thread topic.

Why bother get up in the morning?
I'm saying the vast majority of people are living through massive positive changes in their day to day lives and not only have much more for themselves as they age, but can also witness their children having more more advantages and opportunities as they go through life.
It's mad to suggest otherwise.
I know anyone can come on here and give their tale of woe, but that's pointless as everyone can see the cars on the roads and the show rooms just like anyone can go on daft.ie to see the lavish interior of your common house today. That just two aspects of living it's pretty much the same across the board in all areas holidays, clothes, food etc

Why shouldn't you get up in the morning!

lawred2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

he ll be grand

I'm sure he will

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Simple solution , rock up to A and E see doctor. Get bill pay in instalments. Sorted . No one is denied medical care in Ireland despite your claim to the contrary. Inability to pay is not the same as denied access. Hope that translates for you.

Why can't all people on the dole do this if it's a viable solution? No need for medical cards if they can pay in instalments

lawred2

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I really find it amazing that people are surprised Leo didn't deliver.

Think back to his time as a Minister under Enda... what exactly did he achieve, yet he was always on the telly/radio with a soundbite - usually about someone else's brief.

Look at him now.. all over social media, making good-sounding speeches everywhere, but what substance is behind it?

It's spin and PR.. nothing more. Leo is all about his own profile - I realised this when he came out during the SSM referendum. I personally don't give a toss about his sexuality but he capitalised on it for maximum political effect.

Result? He's the favourite to succeed Enda and much is made of how he's Ireland's first mixed-race gay leader.. again, so bloody what! What has that to do with his suitability for Taoiseach?

Then he gets the top job, faces his first real test in the Budget and we see (yet again) the reality.... he talks a good game, but there's nothing at all behind it.

Looking after the working man indeed! Yesterday's budget is an INSULT to the working man (and woman!)

I'm not surprised about levels of delivery but I am rather surprised by the lack of partisan fervour shown by his own backbenchers in what was his very first budget.

Grandeeod

qwerty ui op wrote: »

But the number living in a house, does have an effect on quality of life and from my day to day experience regular people from all generations move up to more spacious homes.




Why bother get up in the morning?
I'm saying the vast majority of people are living through massive positive changes in their day to day lives and not only have much more for themselves as they age, but can also witness their children having more more advantages and opportunities as they go through life.
It's mad to suggest otherwise.
I know anyone can come on here and give their tale of woe, but that's pointless as everyone can see the cars on the roads and the show rooms just like anyone can go on daft.ie to see the lavish interior of your common house today. That just two aspects of living it's pretty much the same across the board in all areas holidays, clothes, food etc

Why shouldn't you get up in the morning!

I agree and would suggest that there is a level of entitlement that exists among people who moan about working, paying a mortgage and paying for the dole and other stuff. The apparent stretched/squeezed middle class sound just as self entitled as any dole lifer, but they justify it on the basis that they work. You'd think they would enjoy working, enjoy having the ability to at least try save for a mortgage, enjoy paying a mortgage and having that security of choosing to a degree where they live and what type of house they live in. Its a struggle for some, but its a damn better lifestyle than the people they moan about.

Ipso

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I really find it amazing that people are surprised Leo didn't deliver.

Think back to his time as a Minister under Enda... what exactly did he achieve, yet he was always on the telly/radio with a soundbite - usually about someone else's brief.

Look at him now.. all over social media, making good-sounding speeches everywhere, but what substance is behind it?

It's spin and PR.. nothing more. Leo is all about his own profile - I realised this when he came out during the SSM referendum. I personally don't give a toss about his sexuality but he capitalised on it for maximum political effect.

Result? He's the favourite to succeed Enda and much is made of how he's Ireland's first mixed-race gay leader.. again, so bloody what! What has that to do with his suitability for Taoiseach?

Then he gets the top job, faces his first real test in the Budget and we see (yet again) the reality.... he talks a good game, but there's nothing at all behind it.

Looking after the working man indeed! Yesterday's budget is an INSULT to the working man (and woman!)

What were the main insults and how could it have been more friendly toward the working man?

Jawgap

Ipso wrote: »

What were the main insults and how could it have been more friendly toward the working man?

Rewarded work.

Making it so those who work and pay taxes get, in cash terms, the same weekly increase as someone on the dole is a bit of a slap in the face. Yes, SW rates need to increase, but the money paid to job seekers should be the last to be increased - if they're going to futher inflate the SW budget give it the carers - they're the ones saving the State a fortune.

Personally, I'd preferred if FG (not just Leo, but Pascal too) had increased more than they did the threshold at which you go into the higher tax band.

Rezident

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

The lefties want the wealth to be shared amongst the people who couldn't be arsed listening and working hard in school.

Work hard in school succeed in getting a good job and earn money.

You would like to leave it to your kids when you're gone wouldn't you?

Nope Johnny tracksuit down the road should get it, while your kids struggle and work hard each day.

What a great idea.

And don't forget to pay for Johnny and Jacinta's kids, their houses, their medical care, their free money every week for not-working and their Christmas bonus! 'Cos they sure won't be paying for them.

First time in my life I am thinking of voting for Sinn Fein - not because I like them, I don't, but for the same reason people voted for Trump - the current system that is killing me and killed my parents before me, must die.

Wanderer78

Rezident wrote: »

And don't forget to pay for Johnny and Jacinta's kids, their houses, their medical care, their free money every week for not-working and their Christmas bonus! 'Cos they sure won't be paying for them.

First time in my life I am thinking of voting for Sinn Fein - not because I like them, I don't, but for the same reason people voted for Trump - the current system that is killing me and killed my parents before me, must die.

then what the hell do we do?

is the trump vote actually working?

Kermit.de.frog

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So what facts am I ignoring, bearing in mind I'm only interested in domestic homelessness.

The country does not exist in isolation. I'm just after giving you the fact homelessness is twice the rate in the UK it is here yet you claim we have a crisis.

We don't have a crisis any more than our neighbors have a crisis.

We have a problem like every other country but that problem can never be fixed entirely by the state.

Grandeeod

Rezident wrote: »

And don't forget to pay for Johnny and Jacinta's kids, their houses, their medical care, their free money every week for not-working and their Christmas bonus! 'Cos they sure won't be paying for them.

First time in my life I am thinking of voting for Sinn Fein - not because I like them, I don't, but for the same reason people voted for Trump - the current system that is killing me and killed my parents before me, must die.

Seriously, is your life worse than Johnny and Jacinta's that you feel the need to care about societies dole scammers? What do you want? What do you feel entitled to? Honest questions.

Wheeliebin30

Rezident wrote: »

And don't forget to pay for Johnny and Jacinta's kids, their houses, their medical care, their free money every week for not-working and their Christmas bonus! 'Cos they sure won't be paying for them.

First time in my life I am thinking of voting for Sinn Fein - not because I like them, I don't, but for the same reason people voted for Trump - the current system that is killing me and killed my parents before me, must die.

Oh dear.

Don't read sinn feins budget proposal.

They are advocating for the biggest increase in inheritance tax out of all the parties.

Mary lou said the other day, if you don't accumulate that wealth your parents did it should be spread across society to the most vulnerable when your parents pass away

Genius.

mikeym

He's not my Taoiseach

ThunbergsAreGo

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Oh dear.

Don't read sinn feins budget proposal.

They are advocating for the biggest increase in inheritance tax out of all the parties.

Mary lou said the other day, if you don't accumulate that wealth your parents did it should be spread across society to the most vulnerable when your parents pass away

Genius.

The phrase "most vulnerable" really irritates me, means absolutely nothing concrete and people bleat of you disagree

eviltwin

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Oh dear.

Don't read sinn feins budget proposal.

They are advocating for the biggest increase in inheritance tax out of all the parties.

Mary lou said the other day, if you don't accumulate that wealth your parents did it should be spread across society to the most vulnerable when your parents pass away

Genius.

Jesus h christ, do they think everyone who owns a home is wealthy. Just goes to show how out of touch they are.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

mikeym wrote: »

He's not my Taoiseach

Why? If you are in Ireland he is. Whether you like the fact or not.

Spanish Eyes

Grandeeod wrote: »

Seriously, is your life worse than Johnny and Jacinta's that you feel the need to care about societies dole scammers? What do you want? What do you feel entitled to? Honest questions.

There comes a time when those who have suffered during the recession with high USC and no money, and who still propped up the State benefits, get a bit iffy now.

That this cohort were slapped in the face in the budget is an insult. Imagine that those who work and contribute got less than those who don't. That is not right, and we are nearly back to full employment now, not quite there, but nearly.

You surely see that the middle income earners with childcare, mortgages GP costs and all the rest of it have got NO respite. But those who do not work got more in the budget. That is not really fair IMO.

But if you can justify the stance taken by Paschal the Rascal (joke), towards the working contributors to everything, I will welcome it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

eviltwin wrote: »

Jesus h christ, do they think everyone who owns a home is wealthy. Just goes to show how out of touch they are.

Basically, yes.

Wheeliebin30

Alec Plain Scrubber wrote: »

Basically, yes.

They want to increase capital acquisitions tax from 3% to 36%.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017

Jawgap

eviltwin wrote: »

Jesus h christ, do they think everyone who owns a home is wealthy. Just goes to show how out of touch they are.

If you look at their wealth tax proposals you'll see they're cynical savvy enough to exempt the largest wealth bank in the country from it......

........agricultural land.

The Shinners really are only for people who have no aspirations in life.

pilly

Rezident wrote:

First time in my life I am thinking of voting for Sinn Fein - not because I like them, I don't, but for the same reason people voted for Trump - the current system that is killing me and killed my parents before me, must die.

That's the funniest thing I've read on this thread. Sinn Fein would give what you call scroungers even more!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

They want to increase capital acquisitions tax from 3% to 36%.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017

I know. SF couldn't give a toss about the people of the country who work hard and finance a home for their families.

Spanish Eyes

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

They want to increase capital acquisitions tax from 3% to 36%.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017

They can spout all they like about this and that, but FF will do it all for them.

They have already done so in the Budget, it was all their work to keep SF from power, and keep the lame ducks in FG just reading from the script.

I dislike intensely this positioning, not for the good of the people but for their own ends.

FG is a puppet administration, and LV is going to get a few belts from the Punch and Judy show soon I reckon. All mouth and no trousers. I thought he would do better. But hey ho.

Grandeeod

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There comes a time when those who have suffered during the recession with high USC and no money, and who still propped up the State benefits, get a bit iffy now.

That this cohort were slapped in the face in the budget is an insult. Imagine that those who work and contribute got less than those who don't. That is not right, and we are nearly back to full employment now, not quite there, but nearly.

You surely see that the middle income earners with childcare, mortgages GP costs and all the rest of it have got NO respite. But those who do not work got more in the budget. That is not really fair IMO.

But if you can justify the stance taken by Paschal the Rascal (joke), towards the working contributors to everything, I will welcome it.

So you completely forget that the state are solely responsible for the SW increases, while those who have jobs rely on both the Government and employer contribution to a wage increase. The state can only nobble the figures in taxation to a certain degree. There is still an onus on employers to assist employees with wage increases. Wages were slashed during the recession and a lot of employers are quite happy to maintain the lower wages despite an apparent upswing in the economy. Those in jobs appear to be basing all their woes on the Government, while letting their employer off the hook.

Nettle Soup

They are throwing money at the Health Service still. It has more budget than it needs except that so money money is wasted. I worked in the HSE during the late 2000s. It was a total bureaucracy. The HSE was as bloated with senior/middle management then, as it is now. When the recession hit, the managers all feared the gravy train was coming to an end and even the powerful unions wouldn't be able to save them from the Troika. So what did they do? They started creaming expenses, fraudulently, to create their rainy day fund. They also eased off the 'workload'. However the cull never came but the culture for abusing expenses and dossing remains. I don't see any government fixing it now. The opportunity is long gone.

tomwaterford

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

They want to increase capital acquisitions tax from 3% to 36%.

http://www.sinnfein.ie/budget2017

And still this increase will only raise 29 million?

Shows how little is being collected from this tax as it is?



Fascinating little document....they wanted to increase commercial stamp duty from 2-3%....but FG went along and increased it to 6%


But who's supposedly anti business???

Spanish Eyes

Grandeeod wrote: »

So you completely forget that the state are solely responsible for the SW increases, while those who have jobs rely on both the Government and employer contribution to a wage increase. The state can only nobble the figures in taxation to a certain degree. There is still an onus on employers to assist employees with wage increases. Wages were slashed during the recession and a lot of employers are quite happy to maintain the lower wages despite an apparent upswing in the economy. Those in jobs appear to be basing all their woes on the Government, while letting their employer off the hook.

It is optics. It doesn't look good from any angle for those working does it?

Getting up early and dropping the kids off to an expensive creche, paying commuting costs and a mortgage means nothing of course.

All hail the benefit class. Cannot say a word against them. But I and many others pay for it all. They also got more than those working, in the Budget. Why was that do you think?

tomwaterford

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It is optics. It doesn't look good from any angle for those working does it?

Getting up early and dropping the kids off to an expensive creche, paying commuting costs and a mortgage means nothing of course.

All hail the benefit class. Cannot say a word against them. But I and many others pay for it all.

I agree....think we should tax all state pensions before 65 at 99% to pay for free creches....children are the future

tayto lover

qwerty ui op wrote: »

Mad stuff, I compare now to the 80's 70's etc as a reason why people aren't protesting and you respond by justifying what you have and comparing yourself to others can you not pull yourself away from comparing just for a moment. You can always go back mad as hell afterwards.
And this post gets a whole bunch of support.

The rich live in mansions get around in super cars helicopters and planes the poor live in social housing and get around on public transport
So who are the houses and cars sold over the last 10/15 for? On average people are living much much higher than they did 30 years ago , that's progress anyway you look at it.

My point was that anything I have I earned. I got nothing free and of course things are better than they were in the 70's and 80's. Those times were better than the 1870's and 1880's too. Of course that's progress.
The houses that were sold in the last 10 / 15 years were bought by people mainly who took out mortgages and strove to pay them Same as the mortgages in the 80's.

Grandeeod

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It is optics. It doesn't look good from any angle for those working does it?

Getting up early and dropping the kids off to an expensive creche, paying commuting costs and a mortgage means nothing of course.

All hail the benefit class. Cannot say a word against them. But I and many others pay for it all.

What kind of response is that???

Once again I hear this "I pay for it all" baloney. You pay your taxes and it gets distributed by the state for running the country. Running the country involves more than just SW or the benefit class. Listen, I'm absolutely against any level of benefit class or scroungers who know no other way, but believe me your tax dough is wasted across so many spectrum's from the semi state to the HSE, yet I don't hear much about that.

Remember this. The expensive creche is a privately run business out to make a profit. The commuting costs are either a private car, state run or private PT. A fact of life. The mortgage is a choice. None of that deserves a reward. You chose it like I did, but it has benefits too.

Spanish Eyes

Grandeeod wrote: »

What kind of response is that???

Once again I hear this "I pay for it all" baloney. You pay your taxes and it gets distributed by the state for running the country. Running the country involves more than just SW or the benefit class. Listen, I'm absolutely against any level of benefit class or scroungers who know no other way, but believe me your tax dough is wasted across so many spectrum's from the semi state to the HSE, yet I don't hear much about that.

Remember this. The expensive creche is a privately run business out to make a profit. The commuting costs are either a private car, state run or private PT. A fact of life. The mortgage is a choice. None of that deserves a reward. You chose it like I did, but it has benefits too.

What benefits? OK you might own your house in 30 years or something, meantime you have to pay for creche fees, commuting fees, lunches, clothes for work, the doctor etc. etc.

Our SW Benefit brethren do not have to concern themselves with any of that. And the most deprived areas have lots of supports from community centres and so on. Fine.

But to say to me that none of my efforts to work hard and pay my way deserves even a euro more than the benefit cohort is just insulting. But my anger should be directed at the Government, sorry FF who are the authors of this budget really.

Not having a go, just having a rant/discussion. Surely you see that.

Hitman3000

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

The country does not exist in isolation. I'm just after giving you the fact homelessness is twice the rate in the UK it is here yet you claim we have a crisis.

The UK and other countries don't interest me. I live in Ireland so that's all that interests me. I claim we have a crisis? Guess you don't watch the news much. Even the government has acknowledged it's a crisis.

Grandeeod

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

What benefits? OK you might own your house in 30 years or something, meantime you have to pay for creche fees, commuting fees, lunches, clothes for work, the doctor etc. etc.

Our SW Benefit brethren do not have to concern themselves with any of that. And the most deprived areas have lots of supports from community centres and so on. Fine.

But to say to me that none of my efforts to work hard and pay my way deserves even a euro more than the benefit cohort is just insulting. But my anger should be directed at the Government, sorry FF who are the authors of this budget really.

Not having a go, just having a rant/discussion. Surely you see that.

Rant away. Its your right to. But seriously if you want to persist with the line that because you work, the Government should design a budget that gives you even a euro more than benefit cohorts as you call them, I'm unable to avoid insulting you. If you benefited from a tax cut from the state, ask your employer to match it. And don't forget all your tax dollars that are being lined up for Semi state pay increases and tbat bastion of good value - The HSE. Unless you view all workers as being equally entitled.

Spanish Eyes

Why in a time of practically full employment would any Government pay out more to benefit claimants than they would to those working and contributing to our country.

Sends out the wrong signal totally. IMV.

But suck it up as you all say.

Hitman3000

Spanish Eyes wrote:

Why in a time of practically full employment would any Government pay out more to benefit claimants than they would to those working and contributing to our country.

The government doesn't pay me and I earn multiples of what a benefit claimant gets. 198 euro after the rise in the budget hardly champagne and strawberries stuff. It's a 5'er as you say get over it.

Ulysses Gaze

Nettle Soup wrote: »

They are throwing money at the Health Service still. It has more budget than it needs except that so money money is wasted. I worked in the HSE during the late 2000s. It was a total bureaucracy. The HSE was as bloated with senior/middle management then, as it is now. When the recession hit, the managers all feared the gravy train was coming to an end and even the powerful unions wouldn't be able to save them from the Troika. So what did they do? They started creaming expenses, fraudulently, to create their rainy day fund. They also eased off the 'workload'. However the cull never came but the culture for abusing expenses and dossing remains. I don't see any government fixing it now. The opportunity is long gone.

With a budget of €15 billion and a population of 4 million+, we should have a world class health service.

And then you read this....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/number-of-hse-managers-has-risen-almost-40-since-2012-1.2753376

According to the HSE figures, the number of staff at director level in the HSE has grown from 11 in 2012 to 23 in June 2016. Over the same period, the number of assistant national directors increased from 52 to 91, general managers from 165 to 271 and grade VIIIs from 431 to 583.

There are more than 3,000 fewer nurses working for the HSE over this period but 1,300 extra doctors and dentists.

tomwaterford

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The government doesn't pay me and I earn multiples of what a benefit claimant gets. 198 euro after the rise in the budget hardly champagne and strawberries stuff. It's a 5'er as you say get over it.

Why is government not tackling those ex TDs, teachers,ministers,council workers,gaurds etc etc who've retired early and not yet 65 and there pensions....paying people multiples of the dole in pension and they not pension age??

Spanish Eyes

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

With a budget of €15 billion and a population of 4 million+, we should have a world class health service.

And then you read this....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/number-of-hse-managers-has-risen-almost-40-since-2012-1.2753376

Fire off an oul email to Simon Harris, see what his (civil servant) response is.

eviltwin

Sure they need that extra fiver to pay for their smokes.....

I thought now we have Seetec and that other thing that the end was nigh for long term dole claimants. Don't they get a cut in benefits if they don't sign up to education or training?

myshirt

If the politicians had the balls to do what is required, would people back them?

I'm not so sure.

Self interest is a more powerful motivator than altruism.

Sweetemotion

Ha ha, love it. Especially all those who say this was a FF budget delivered By FG.

No it wasn't, this was a FG budget. Delivered by the very people you voted for. Must be sickening they looked after the people you look down on.

Zebra3

What's with the whinging over inheritance tax?

Plenty of talk on here about rewarding work yet people seem to want to inherit money at a lower tax rate than money earned through honest work.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

__..__ wrote: »

Hey Leo?
Why the fcukndonI bother getting up in the morning. People who don't get up get more than me in the budget.
Well?
Leo?
Are you even up yet Leo?

Because you're a fool. Or a horse.

__..__

__..__ wrote: »

Hey Leo?
Why the fcukndonI bother getting up in the morning. People who don't get up get more than me in the budget.
Well?
Leo?
Are you even up yet Leo?

That speech from Varadkar is all more bs and rhetoric. I would place little mass on it to be honest

qwerty ui op

tayto lover wrote: »

My point was that anything I have I earned. I got nothing free .

How can you possibly say what is or isn't for free or who is or isn't contributing in our collective efforts to enjoy life.
This whole attitude of being more deserving than others it's not uncommon but its very negative and serves no purpose.It will never do anything for you personally nor will it do anything for our collective efforts.
Also it clearly comes from some feeling/emotion rather than a practical view on government, because those with these views are always looking in the same direction (those with less).
Have you ever considered what it would be like if everyone had this attitude. I believe the progress that we currently enjoy would disappear.